The Great Unification

[Heatwave]

SVL... power to weight... any drive?

 

[SVL66]

SVL... power to weight... any drive?

No..keep it simple limit to bravo based drives, so we all do not have to spend money to re rig our boats. Merc, Innovation. Ilmor, Raylar. limit to 525-550hp 4850lbs min. take it from there

 

[F1-00 Racing]

No..keep it simple limit to bravo based drives, so we all do not have to spend money to re rig our boats. Merc, Innovation. Ilmor, Raylar. limit to 525-550hp 4850lbs min. take it from there

Thanks for the info Bruce, are these official rule changes that are in force now or just being talked about? and with Merc out of the picture who will be entrusted in the process of sealing the motors?

Trent

 

[Heatwave]

No one needs to spend money to re-rig, just dyno the engines, there are some heavier older boats out there that would become competitive with more power, Grimaldi's Activator for one, than there are somewith non Bravo drives, like mine that have #4 drives, and engines should be allowed from any source. This would become true racing, right now SVL is almost a bracket class, there are only maybe 2 -3 boats that will win on any gven day, the rest eventually just give up. Last race there were 4 boats and they were all spread out, just another procession, not exciting to watch. When was the last time a Team ordered a NEW SVL....., most of the SVL fleet are maybe 5 -12 years old. I guess this SVL talk should be another thread.

 

[Sean Stinson]

Maybe you guys should adopt P1 weight to HP rule!!!!

 

[TGC-32]

No one needs to spend money to re-rig, just dyno the engines, there are some heavier older boats out there that would become competitive with more power, Grimaldi's Activator for one, than there are somewith non Bravo drives, like mine that have #4 drives, and engines should be allowed from any source. This would become true racing, right now SVL is almost a bracket class, there are only maybe 2 -3 boats that will win on any given day, the rest eventually just give up. Last race there were 4 boats and they were all spread out, just another procession, not exciting to watch. When was the last time a Team ordered a NEW SVL....., most of the SVL fleet are maybe 5 -12 years old. I guess this SVL talk should be another thread.

IMHO, it seems to me that so much of the problem with only two or three boats being able to win is the tight, flat race courses. Back when we were running F-2, you kind of knew by the first turn if you were competitive that day or not. I would just hold it wide open and after a couple of miles you knew if you had a shot. Ah, but in rough water you could just hitch up your jockey shorts and gut it out. It became a race of the crew's TALENT and not the top-end hull speed. That always seemed so much more interesting to me. I guess my take is that if you opened up the courses and returned it to real offshore racing, the results would be potentially so much more interesting and every team could possibly win IF they had the ability and the willingness to run hard in the rough stuff and keep the boat together without breaking.

This would make it easier to keep the older boats running as they would not become obsolete because they lacked a few top-end MPH compared to the fastest boats in the field. Rough water is the ultimate leveler of the playing field, and the fastest flat-water boat rarely wins! Set up becomes important, as do talent and durability, and the boring follow-the-leader racing doesn't take place. You would have the benefit of more interesting racing AND larger boat counts.

Just my 2-cents! I want to see this sport continue to thrive.

Tom
Total Marine

 

[Sean Stinson]

IMHO, it seems to me that so much of the problem with only two or three boats being able to win is the tight, flat race courses. Back when we were running F-2, you kind of knew by the first turn if you were competitive that day or not. I would just hold it wide open and after a couple of miles you knew if you had a shot. Ah, but in rough water you could just hitch up your jockey shorts and gut it out. It became a race of the crew's TALENT and not the top-end hull speed. That always seemed so much more interesting to me. I guess my take is that if you opened up the courses and returned it to real offshore racing, the results would be potentially so much more interesting and every team could possibly win IF they had the ability and the willingness to run hard in the rough stuff and keep the boat together without breaking.

This would make it easier to keep the older boats running as they would not become obsolete because they lacked a few top-end MPH compared to the fastest boats in the field. Rough water is the ultimate leveler of the playing field, and the fastest flat-water boat rarely wins! Set up becomes important, as do talent and durability, and the boring follow-the-leader racing doesn't take place. You would have the benefit of more interesting racing AND larger boat counts.

Just my 2-cents! I want to see this sport continue to thrive.

Tom
Total Marine

Hey Tom how's it going??? Still have the boat???

 

[SVL66]

Thanks for the info Bruce, are these official rule changes that are in force now or just being talked about? and with Merc out of the picture who will be entrusted in the process of sealing the motors?

Trent

Nothing is official. it is being considered.

 

[TGC-32]

Hey Tom how's it going??? Still have the boat???

Yeah, still have it. Used F-2 boats aren't exactly a hot commodity! I might consider breaking it out of mothballs one of these days, but I've got three little boys (a six year old and three year old twins), so I've got that to consider. We are going to run in the New York City Poker Run, so that should be fun!

I do applaud your efforts at staying involved Sean. Your insight and perspective are usually right on. Us "old" guys have to stick together!

Tom

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

No..keep it simple limit to bravo based drives, so we all do not have to spend money to re rig our boats. Merc, Innovation. Ilmor, Raylar. limit to 525-550hp 4850lbs min. take it from there

No one needs to spend money to re-rig, just dyno the engines, there are some heavier older boats out there that would become competitive with more power, Grimaldi's Activator for one, than there are somewith non Bravo drives, like mine that have #4 drives, and engines should be allowed from any source. This would become true racing, right now SVL is almost a bracket class, there are only maybe 2 -3 boats that will win on any gven day, the rest eventually just give up. Last race there were 4 boats and they were all spread out, just another procession, not exciting to watch. When was the last time a Team ordered a NEW SVL....., most of the SVL fleet are maybe 5 -12 years old. I guess this SVL talk should be another thread.

The SVLS are very well matched. The few that are a little faster are so because countless hours have been spent in balance and propeller selection.
I think Bruce is right bravo based is better. As soon as a speedmaster is allowed the mismatch mess begins again. I have no problem with different motors so long as the are equal. The propeller variation of SSM will always have an advantage.

In most classes the first boat to the first turn wins. Ocean or not. Only when there is a large number say 6 or 8 or more do you see positions changing in the pack. The leader seldom changes unless they encounter a problem.

Even in the best of times in F2 the race was decided at turn one most often.

There is no substitute for experience and proper set up.

 

[MANITIE]

Here is something else to consider...and its just a idea....

If you go to a open engine package with like engines and hp and torque..maybe let in all boats 30 feet or less, bravo base drive, 4850 lbs min. and open it up to open cockpit boats also...in F1 we were running 83 - 84 mph....and had to add weight to make the 5000lbs min....plus with a extension box put on they may be able to run 88 - 90 mph....if a team wishes to race in a open cockpit boat them so be it....with half of the races today being in clam water....the extra 4 - 6 mph is not much more then what we ran in F1.....even in OPA has the 32 Activtor running in class 3 at 95 mph...so whats a 2 foot shorter boat running 5 mph slower.....the open cockpit boats will not have any type of advantage over the SVL's....but it might bring in some experianced teams to take a shoot at you guys.....

I'm just thowing out some ideas to grow the class...

 

[TGC-32]

"Even in the best of times in F2 the race was decided at turn one most often."

I wasn't suggesting that F-2 was the model to follow. It was, in fact, the start of the problem of relatively new boats becoming obsolete because they didn't possess enough top-end speed. Many years ago when I was running in Pro-Stock, you had 20 mile or longer laps. In rough water you never even approached top speed, so the fastest boat wasn't even an issue. You could pace yourself, keep the boat together, and make a push on the last lap, so the race was far from over by the first turn. Older boats could stay competitive far longer than today.

If the current (or any) model of racing is such that the order of the boats doesn't change much after the first turn, then that is pretty telling as to why the racing is boring and not getting fan or media coverage. If it simply becomes a race to the first turn, then the rest of the race is kind of anti-climatic, no? The key, it would seem to me, is to design a racing model so that the race ISN'T typically decided by the first turn. IMHO, longer rough water courses accomplishes that. There are obviously other problems associated with longer courses, but if the desire is to keep more boats racing competitively for longer, that is a possible solution.

 

[audacity]

-LESS CLASSES!
-RACERS CANNOT MAKE RULES
-here in the US we try to make everyone happy and in the end they r not...and gone.

 

[Ryan Beckley]

Gino ....sorry but that is a terrible idea. Do you really want to kill somebody? The F1 got too fast when they go to 80mph.....there was very few races that went on where people didn't get pitched oput of boats, they should have been slowed down back then. The Warlocks were scary enough at those speeds and now you want to make them 10mph fast and TRY to keep up with a canopy boat? That IS insane!

SVL is a great class....there are plenty of OLD boats out there and a few brand new ones. The opening up of the motors is fine but leave the bravo drives, they add a bit of finesse factor to the racing as well. Why would you change all the rules when 95% of the boats already have bravo drives.

HeatWave are you MH?

 

[audacity]

SVL-hp/weight
SS
P1 hp/lb
SCL
class 1
xcat
might as well use something that works!
but, that's not going to happen...

 

[Ryan Beckley]

Joey, with all due respect, I've read what you wrote & I agree, I saw some of your posts elsewhere as well, my question is why did you guys build a turbine boat instead of 5 outboard SS boats if you guys wanted to race people & build a great class?

SS is the exact same thing as X-Cat.

 

[audacity]

SS i was referring to super sport the open v class that races with p1...i may have the name incorrect.

building the turbine was jeff's decision. i am VERY grateful i have the opportunity to run one of the worlds fastest boats...but if it was my program(it's not) i would have opted for SCL or XCat! XCat has been my favorite class from the time i started racing offshore.

Ryan, u going back this winter????

 

[Ryan Beckley]

OK many people call it Stock or SuperStock class here or now Cat Outboard.

If I can go do a race over there next year I may, the travel to and from is brutal and the week in between races is a bit much if you are there. The racing itself IS AWESOME....there is no reason we can't have that here in the US. So many people are just afraid of the outboard cat.....until they run one!

 

[audacity]

ryan,
you have the equipment, why not just run your own program over there...i know shipping the boat is expensive and it doesn't really pay to bring it back.

 

[Sean H]

Gino ....sorry but that is a terrible idea. Do you really want to kill somebody? The F1 got too fast when they go to 80mph.....there was very few races that went on where people didn't get pitched oput of boats, they should have been slowed down back then. The Warlocks were scary enough at those speeds and now you want to make them 10mph fast and TRY to keep up with a canopy boat? That IS insane!

SVL is a great class....there are plenty of OLD boats out there and a few brand new ones. The opening up of the motors is fine but leave the bravo drives, they add a bit of finesse factor to the racing as well. Why would you change all the rules when 95% of the boats already have bravo drives.

HeatWave are you MH?

Ryan, Heatwave is Guy.

You may see more teams look at things like Xcat with the economy and the state of racing here in the states.

There is a new DW being built that should be a challenger for the top spot next year over there.