The Case of Poker Run liabilities

[Boatfreak]

I just sat here and read all of this junk and it really makes me proud of my fellow man. The people that want something for nothing, and the lawyers that can't wait to help them get it, make me sick.

 

[GENERAL LEE]

OK...I'll bite.

Do I need to limit my "organizing" and just count on the run being a "major coincidence" of a bunch of boats running from East Chicago to Michigan City?

Even though I REALLY did laugh out loud when I read that the first time :rofl:.... You're pretty close to correct in a short explanation. :sifone:

 

[redhotsommer]

So anonymous "invitations" or general announcements may be in order? I could have some fun with this.... Perhaps adamantly and repeatly insisting there will be NO boats travelling in an eastward direction at a certain time from a certain place will eliminate the possibility of liability...hmmm?

Quiet all of you...there is nothing to see here...move along....

 

[cashbrain]

That's the Ticket:sifone:

 

[BBB725]

When I was on the local poker run board we did a couple things for liability. First we formed a nonprofit LLC and everyone was a volunteer. Second was we stated in the entry that it was not required to run your boat to collect cards, that way the participants run at their own risk.

 

[Pro1]

Mike,

I would definitely talk to an attorney..I did and I avoided all liability.
Fun Runs are alot different than Poker Runs. At the very least,I would make sure that everyone who runs has valid insurance with adequate coverage and that not one person is the "organizer". When the music stops,attorneys will tag ANYONE that they think they can get money out of.
Your biz should be incorporated anyway and that is nominal protection.Any good atty can blow thru a corp,trust, or any other entity if they think there are assets available.

As far as Poker Runs are concerned, it doesn't make a difference how much insurance that you have...the attorneys can sue for ridiculous amounts and if they win the case, the promoter would be responsible for the difference.
And obviously, insurance companies will do anything to avoid a claim. If they find any negligence on the Promoters part, they can deny the claim.

I enjoyed all the runs that I put together and damn lucky that nothing happened. SOTW is an example of what can happen. Don't get me wrong, I think the runs are great, but to think that these events are completely protected...think again.

Do the event,but make sure others are helping organize it so that it is not directed to you.

This is all so true and when you sign the release by the club you assume liability on yourself in addition to the promoter. A number of us do not feel the risk of liability is worth a few hours of fun.

 

[GENERAL LEE]

So anonymous "invitations" or general announcements may be in order? I could have some fun with this.... Perhaps adamantly and repeatly insisting there will be NO boats travelling in an eastward direction at a certain time from a certain place will eliminate the possibility of liability...hmmm?

Quiet all of you...there is nothing to see here...move along....

In ALL seriousness, I don't see how that would put anyone in hot water? Hell, you really are JUST going boating with friends on the bottom line. If you just make the gathering seem as loose and unofficial as possible, it would literally just be a group of people out boating. Have the shirts, etc, made AFTER the boat run is over, that way there's NO proof of an "organized" event until it has already happened? :blush5:

 

[redhotsommer]

That's kinda what I'm thinking Brandon...what an awesome non-event this would be!

Does anybody have experience with a parallel situation...like exotic car rallys or motorcycle poker runs? Just curious as to whether the existance of road rules and speed limits on the highways has an effect on liability?

 

[TCEd]

In ALL seriousness, I don't see how that would put anyone in hot water? Hell, you really are JUST going boating with friends on the bottom line. If you just make the gathering seem as loose and unofficial as possible, it would literally just be a group of people out boating. Have the shirts, etc, made AFTER the boat run is over, that way there's NO proof of an "organized" event until it has already happened? :blush5:

Wouldn't a bunch of boats "just going boating " run into some law enforcement issues with the local water cops or USCG ? I imagine a couple of those boats deciding to be first to wherever the group is headed and running at a faster pace then the main group.
ed

 

[B.Z.]

I have a question: so then if you go boating and say it's with 5-6 boats/friends from the harbor to another location could the be called a poker run??? Let's face it we do it all the time?????

 

[Davidmnc]

So what is the difference between a poker run and a race as far as organizer liability is concerned?

 

[Knot 4 Me]

Anyone familiar with the Chicago Loop Cruise that the Crownline gang does each April? You could contact Don Chambers and see how he addresses the liability issue.

http://www.chicagoloopcruise.com/

 

[GENERAL LEE]

That's kinda what I'm thinking Brandon...what an awesome non-event this would be!

Does anybody have experience with a parallel situation...like exotic car rallys or motorcycle poker runs? Just curious as to whether the existance of road rules and speed limits on the highways has an effect on liability?

Although considerably smaller than what you're "not" planning.....:rofl:....... When all of us (the E Dock boats) are out running together at home, it pretty much "looks" like an event according to our friends on shore? We haven't had any questions go farther than someone asking if there was a race, or poker run going on that day, when it is just us out for a random run together.

On lake freakin MICHIGAN, I think you could get away with as many as 50 boats running around together. That lake is so massive, that it wouldn't seem odd to me that people that live on various locations of the lake decided to get together for a little "lunch & a boat ride" on a sunny Saturday?

If there were to be an accident, it would only involve the people that it happened to, just like any other day on the water as long as you don't "sponsor" it? It's no different than a bunch of folks getting together for a ride up the state on motorcycles?

 

[Magic Medicine]

So anonymous "invitations" or general announcements may be in order? I could have some fun with this.... Perhaps adamantly and repeatly insisting there will be NO boats travelling in an eastward direction at a certain time from a certain place will eliminate the possibility of liability...hmmm?

Quiet all of you...there is nothing to see here...move along....

Mike,

I don't think we would have any issues with the majority of the crew we boat with on a continual basis, but you never know!!!!! I think informal is the key in this situation. Maybe get slips in MC for the night etc????

 

[Magic Medicine]

Wouldn't a bunch of boats "just going boating " run into some law enforcement issues with the local water cops or USCG ? I imagine a couple of those boats deciding to be first to wherever the group is headed and running at a faster pace then the main group.
ed

No speed limit on lake Michigan, so issues. We always boat as a group and show up with 5 or more offshores at any given port any given time

 

[Magic Medicine]

Although considerably smaller than what you're "not" planning.....:rofl:....... When all of us (the E Dock boats) are out running together at home, it pretty much "looks" like an event according to our friends on shore? We haven't had any questions go farther than someone asking if there was a race, or poker run going on that day, when it is just us out for a random run together.

On lake freakin MICHIGAN, I think you could get away with as many as 50 boats running around together. That lake is so massive, that it wouldn't seem odd to me that people that live on various locations of the lake decided to get together for a little "lunch & a boat ride" on a sunny Saturday?

If there were to be an accident, it would only involve the people that it happened to, just like any other day on the water as long as you don't "sponsor" it? It's no different than a bunch of folks getting together for a ride up the state on motorcycles?

Exactly!!!!!!

 

[redhotsommer]

B- I can see how any E-dock gathering might be construed as an "event" in itself!

Like Andy said, we usually roll with a decent-size group...Chicago Scene two years ago I think there was 10 or 12 running down to the city in 5-7 footers. Never any question at all from law enforcement.

I guess that "keep it simple, stupid" concept will be utilized in full effect. No helos, no shirts, and, unfortunately, no benefitting charity (unless we set up a pig on the bar???). At least wherever we end up will most likely get a nice profit from our tab!

 

[Magic Medicine]

B- I can see how any E-dock gathering might be construed as an "event" in itself!

Like Andy said, we usually roll with a decent-size group...Chicago Scene two years ago I think there was 10 or 12 running down to the city in 5-7 footers. Never any question at all from law enforcement.

I guess that "keep it simple, stupid" concept will be utilized in full effect. No helos, no shirts, and, unfortunately, no benefitting charity (unless we set up a pig on the bar???). At least wherever we end up will most likely get a nice profit from our tab!

If have a connection at MCYC I might be able to do something there???????

 

[redhotsommer]

Like I told Milldew (Jason)...probably won't plan anything until spring or early summer.

 

[cashbrain]

Mike,
Make up your t-shirts and have an informal run...make sure anyone attending has valid insurance and you will be fine.