Deadline is set for Fountain bidders

[phragle]

Good post...not great mind you....but a good post.

The style seems vaguely familiar....

Your an excellent mentor sir......

[TCEd]

People seem to bag on Fountains/Bajas but they are decent boats. A 36 Outlaw is a great looking boat especially with the SST package. Fountain needs to abandon the under 35 market and concentrate on the 35-48 market.

T2X there has always been too many boat companies. Look at the "cruiser' market or the center console market there seems to be hundreds of choices. Some of the performance boat companies have been around for years but haven't produced many boats lately. Velocity, Hustler, Sutphen, Donzi all have heritage but probably haven't produced 10 boats each this year.

So what is better someone who produces 50 boats and makes no money/ stuffs them down dealer throats or a builder that only makes boats on demand/on orders only?

If Fountain survives and does what you suggest, abandon the under 35', who builds the entry and middle price boat ?
ed

[Expensive Date]

Fountain got rid of the 27 and 29 fever a few years ago.The still have the 33 lightning but that is their smallest performance boat.

[TCEd]

We're the smallest builder in the business but every mold is paid for , the building is paid for and we have zero debt. Look for our new 41ft cc to be revealed @ The Miami Boat Show 2010 and then the go fast deck is next. We only custom build and have no dealers , no financing and no bs. I've been doing this for 10 years and we offer a lifetime warranty on every hull. Just ask Tyler and Warren about our race boats. I know how to run a business and keep costs down. If we don't have new boat sales we just simply do repair work or work on our molds. We're here to stay! www.JokerPerformanceBoats.com

Guys like you, Sutphen, Pantera and others build very good basic boats. No bling, no fru-fru, just good solid boats. The problem is a lot of people want bling and don't know what that bling costs and how worthless it is unless you need the look at me ego stroke.
The best for your business.
ed

[mosi]

Checkmate's new President is the person that founded Baja. I predict that he will take Checkmate and develop it into another Baja. I believe they are already putting out a 35 footer and they are probably using some of the same labor force in Bucyrus Ohio that Reggie dumped!!

[Buoy]

I still stick to my story of dealer or dealers buying fountain. I aslo think anyone who thinks they can take fountain back to its pre BR production numbers is out of touch with reality. Especially if you figure baja pre BR production numbers also. You can make the boats but who will buy them? Or finance the people who will buy them.

I see them emerging as more of a custom performance boat builder with a production fishing boat and smaller entry level baja boats no cruisers. Maybe a good year 100 to 150 boats with 10% to 20% performance 40% to 45% fishing and the rest entry level.

Would this in some ways be similar to the Wellcraft/Scarab sort of thing in the late 80's early 90's?

[Davidmnc]

When it goes on the auction block there is no telling who is gonna step up. I am not convinced Hustler will be the new owner. Local rumblings say different. I am looking forward to standing in the back ground and watching it go down. Hell Chris might appoint me the Official SOS roving reporter for this epic event!

[GENERAL LEE]

Hustler...believe it when it happens nothing against them there are a few running around just don't see it working.

Say what you want but if Fountain goes our sport changes forever if it has not already.

I'm just trying to understand what point you're trying to make.

It reads that since you've only seen a few Hustlers around your area, you think they are not capable of building a Fountain? How is, "there are a few around, so I just don't see it working" a convincing way to determine anything?


Ok, yes.....obviously the main players in the sport change if Fountain were to go away. I haven't heard anyone debate that, or "say what they want"? I personally don't think whether they are here or not will impact anything meaningful. They aren't selling boats now, so if they're gone then......they aren't selling boats....? There will be less magazine ad's too.

Other than that, people will continue to race their hulls, drive the boats they did make, so really nothing will change besides not seeing any new ones.... which we aren't seeing now anyway?

The sport will go on with or without Fountain, just like it has in the past when other builders fell on hard times. The industry didn't go away when Apache failed, or one of the times Cigarette did, or anyone else. The only company out there that I hypothetically could see creating a massive impact if they were to go under, is Mercury.

[fund razor]

I'm just trying to understand what point you're trying to make.

It reads that since you've only seen a few Hustlers around your area, you think they are not capable of building a Fountain? How is, "there are a few around, so I just don't see it working" a convincing way to determine anything?


Ok, yes.....obviously the main players in the sport change if Fountain were to go away. I haven't heard anyone debate that, or "say what they want"? I personally don't think whether they are here or not will impact anything meaningful. They aren't selling boats now, so if they're gone......they aren't selling boats....? There will be less magazine ad's too.

Other than that, people will continue to race their hulls, drive the boats they did make, so really nothing will change besides not seeing any new ones.... which we aren't seeing now anyway?

The sport will go on with or without Fountain, just like it has in the past when other builders fell on hard times. The industry didn't go away when Apache failed, or one of the times Cigarette did, or anyone else. The only company out there that I hypothetically could see creating a massive impact if they were to go under, is Mercury.

Taken in the context of the original post, I took Tim's post to mean that he has observed a few Hustlers running around. However, he does not see the business plan of attempting to re-establish past production numbers working.

I took his point about Fountain to mean that regardless of one's opinion (say what you want) Fountain has been a large an integral part of the popularity and growth of the sport, and if they go... it will certainly change forever... if it has not already. (I believe it has)

[GENERAL LEE]

Taken in the context of the original post, I took Tim's post to mean that he has observed a few Hustlers running around. However, he does not see the business plan of attempting to re-establish past production numbers working.

I took his point about Fountain to mean that regardless of one's opinion (say what you want) Fountain has been a large an integral part of the popularity and growth of the sport, and if they go... it will certainly change forever... if it has not already. (I believe it has)

Gotcha. I hadn't read that Hustler planned to get Fountain back to it's historically highest production numbers, or any of Hustlers' intent should they aquire Fountains assets. The main reason Reggie needed to continue growing, is because they have shareholders to keep happy. I'd be surprised if whoever does try to "reinvent" Fountain, does so with it remaining a public company.

I wasn't aware anyone has tried to argue Fountains' obvious impact on the sports' popularity, so that's why I was confused at why Tim made the comment.

[fund razor]

I wasn't aware anyone has tried to argue Fountains' obvious impact on the sports' popularity, so that's why I was confused at why Tim made the comment.

As much as you read the forums? I am surprised.
People argue the obvious all the time.

[T2x]

T2X there has always been too many boat companies.

True.................. but never has the industry been as upside down as it is now....without any real hope of ever returning to the sales numbers of only 3 years ago.....

There is no room for more than a handful of companies and old loyalties and dying (dead)brands mean nothing......nor will they ever again IMHO.

T2x

[Expensive Date]

I'm just trying to understand what point you're trying to make.

It reads that since you've only seen a few Hustlers around your area, you think they are not capable of building a Fountain? How is, "there are a few around, so I just don't see it working" a convincing way to determine anything?


Ok, yes.....obviously the main players in the sport change if Fountain were to go away. I haven't heard anyone debate that, or "say what they want"? I personally don't think whether they are here or not will impact anything meaningful. They aren't selling boats now, so if they're gone then......they aren't selling boats....? There will be less magazine ad's too.

Other than that, people will continue to race their hulls, drive the boats they did make, so really nothing will change besides not seeing any new ones.... which we aren't seeing now anyway?

The sport will go on with or without Fountain, just like it has in the past when other builders fell on hard times. The industry didn't go away when Apache failed, or one of the times Cigarette did, or anyone else. The only company out there that I hypothetically could see creating a massive impact if they were to go under, is Mercury.

Should have been more clear actually I think Hustlers are nice boats nothing against them.If they do buy Fountain I wish them luck but is going to be a long hard road there is a lot of inventory out there.

[TEAMBAJA]

True.................. but never has the industry been as upside down as it is now....without any real hope of ever returning to the sales numbers of only 3 years ago.....

Anyone care to guess which company had the biggest share of the market 3 years ago?

[Shah Mat]

In '02 GM dropped the Camaro, but look what came back in late '08. Now they are hot sellers. Could that be a business plan? (Side note....I always liked Pontiac, I hope they come back someday.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/business/10auto.html

For Fountain, and the potential new owners (Hustler or??).....If they slow production down to a crawl will the line of buyers get longer and longer? Everywhere I go boating you always see a Fountain and most owners are brand-loyal. Seems like there will always be some sort of demand for Fountains.

[VtSteve]

Anyone care to guess which company had the biggest share of the market 3 years ago?

Without even looking, BAYLINER


In performance boats, I would have guessed Fountain.

I was amazed when I read that Chaparral had almost 9% of the sterndrive market last year.

[Ratickle]

There are several direct competitors of the Fountain/Baja brand that come to mind. Sunsation, Nortech, Nordic, Formula, Hallet, Cigerette, and Checkmate being a few.

I think Hustler could use about 1/3 of the combined molds in the Fountain/Baja lineup to enhance their offerings. Just conjecture though.

[Ratickle]

I am in trucking and we are all waiting for two of the largest companies to take the pipe. While they desperately struggle to hang on the entire industry is being pummeled by sub cost freight rates that they are creating.

T2X what trucking companies are going down? I used to be involved with trucking a little and just wondered.

YRC Corp is barely hanging on. They own Yellow, Roadway, Holland, Reddeway, Penn. They hold about 20% of the trucking business. Have taken 15% pay cuts for all, haven't paid into their retirement pension plans, are giving IOU's, and the sooner they are gone (undercutting all pricing that makes any sense. I've seen 87% discounts) the better for all. Thier operating pay ratio is still about 35% higher than any other main trucking line in LTL business.

[DollaBill]

Nordic, Checkmate or Hallet EVER, NEVER, EVER were the "the other boat" when a buyer is/was considering a Fountain

[Ratickle]

Nordic, Checkmate or Hallet EVER, NEVER, EVER were the "the other boat" when a buyer is/was considering a Fountain

The new modified Hallet 40 400-T at 92 mph for $425,000 w 700's put them in the competitor bracket for me.

Checkmate is/was the "other" guy when competing against the Baja brand as far as I was concerned around here.

And Nordic against Baja out west.

I did say Fountain/Baja...