Roll call from racers.

[Steve Miklos]

The LLC was a fine and 30 days for 1st infraction 2nd infraction was big fine 1 year suspension. You could not race until fine was paid.

I would make it, the the penality time STARTS once the fine was PAID.

Other sannctioning groups (cars) have gone to head bolts/intake that cannot be removed with some success.

As this discussion progresses you will see why the strain gauge is a great alternative.

The strain gauge data is not much different then checking a P class boats GPS data so tech is in place and well done at SBI/OPA.

The flexability of a power to weight ratio with output data logging allows any normally aspirated engine greatly lowering the cost of rebuilds and opening up the engine alternatives.

Engine company's like Ilmor Sterling and Mercury have and are participating in strain gauge powerboat racing at this moment.

The cost of a strain gauge system is less than half of an engine rebuild from Mercury.

It is unfair to think that SBI/OPA can put together a fool proof set of rules and enforce them at every race without greatly increasing SVL entry fees and demanding pre registration / minimum fleet agreements.

Steve

[XtremeRacing]

The LLC was a fine and 30 days for 1st infraction 2nd infraction was big fine 1 year suspension. You could not race until fine was paid.

I would make it, the the penality time STARTS once the fine was PAID.

Other sannctioning groups (cars) have gone to head bolts/intake that cannot be removed with some success.

As this discussion progresses you will see why the strain gauge is a great alternative.

The strain gauge data is not much different then checking a P class boats GPS data so tech is in place and well done at SBI/OPA.

The flexability of a power to weight ratio with output data logging allows any normally aspirated engine greatly lowering the cost of rebuilds and opening up the engine alternatives.

Engine company's like Ilmor Sterling and Mercury have and are participating in strain gauge powerboat racing at this moment.

The cost of a strain gauge system is less than half of an engine rebuild from Mercury.

It is unfair to think that SBI/OPA can put together a fool proof set of rules and enforce them at every race without greatly increasing SVL entry fees and demanding pre registration / minimum fleet agreements.

Steve

Some very good points Steve and guess it is one more thing that needs to be looked at ....

[Dunbar 104]

I would like to hear from racers if they are willing to be suspended for a year if they get cought cheating? What I mean by cheating is a motor or drive infraction to what we all know what the rule book means by stock parts. NO GREY AREA! If it didnt come with the motor it is illegal period! Im talking about any part. Same plugs,wires,rockers, flywheels,coils,fuel injectors,pumps,manifolds,ECM,and block. There is more but you get my drift. Same on the drive with the cases,gears ect.
MD

Having Mercury stamped on a part doesn't do crap. Mercury seals are easily defeated if someone wants to, but also keeps the honest from checking the dishonest.

Power is made in the computer, cylinder heads, compression, and cubic inch. I would guess the heads are the hardest to tech, and have the greatest potential for power?

I don't want the class to turn into the motor builder game, but sending a motor back to Mercury does not make sense anymore ether. All that really matters is how much HP is coming out the output shaft and work backwards from there. Maybe more pre inspection when time is more available. We are all ready a pain in the a$$, so maybe other teams could tech each other?

Only thing I can think of is a better seal, other than Mercury, a max dyno hp window, and some way to monitor rpm. or open the ecm rule.
If that doesn't work Blue Intake, or P3

[lindeman]

European Associations have different rules, but all of them has a suspension period, and most have a loss of all points earlier the same season. As far as I can remember, the Norwegian NA has 3 next races (in effect 1/2 season), and the Swedes have the next 12 months. This is for the first offence.

The problem has come in grey areas; a friend of mine was suspended for a year due to a undocumented production change from Mercury (and yes - we are into the small details of an homologation sheet)...

Morten

[lindeman]

Just to split the two things:

In UIM P1 (or whatever they call the series), all competitors had to install a torque sensor (made by ABB) on the axle. This is a very expensive (US 40k if I remember it right) - too expensive if you ask me. Nigel should be able to tell more.

In general terms - if you can seal the engine (and the seal is "tamper" proof), you need to police the ECUs. This is difficult without having the possibility to change them, since everything can be "hidden" in them (e.g. turn on the ignition for three seconds, turn it off for about two, turn it on again for five seconds - now start the engine in the "hot" position). They are basically computers, and this can be quite easily done).

For normal engines RPM is the most significant change to engines, and this can be policed with data (RPM) loggers supplied by the association.

Have a look at the new 2011 OPA rules (yes, they have been posted under the 2010 link)


Morten

[mdkeywest]

WoW ! cheating seems to be an expensive hobby .
Just dont cheat ! problem solved .

[Sean Stinson]

How about this one Randy......remember the prop claimer rule in Factory class under the LLC regime maybe that should be invoked here.....someonewho has a hot set-up would have the possibility of another team claiming the suspected engine or drive for their own use!!!!!

I know I am going to take flak for this one!!! But if someone dumped a pile of money into a cheater motor and another team could claim it I would think that might curb both the cheating as well as accusations if the claimed part did nothing to enhance the performance of the boat that didthe claiming.....does that make sense??????

Sean

[rchevelle71]

How about this one Randy......remember the prop claimer rule in Factory class under the LLC regime maybe that should be invoked here.....someonewho has a hot set-up would have the possibility of another team claiming the suspected engine or drive for their own use!!!!!

I know I am going to take flak for this one!!! But if someone dumped a pile of money into a cheater motor and another team could claim it I would think that might curb both the cheating as well as accusations if the claimed part did nothing to enhance the performance of the boat that didthe claiming.....does that make sense??????

Sean

I like that one, I was thinking something similar when we were talking ECU's, just do a lottery and have an ECU swap in the pits, not so easy for motors, but y'all get the idea.

[Tyler Crockett]

That's where deep pockets come in. The Guy protesting has them and the team with the motor in a bucket may not. Then he finds the machine shop shaved a .001 off somewhere they shouldn't have. You could have a class that is affordable become extremely unaffordable.

Hey Easy on the machine shop shaving to much off !!!!

[Steve Miklos]

How about this one Randy......remember the prop claimer rule in Factory class under the LLC regime maybe that should be invoked here.....someonewho has a hot set-up would have the possibility of another team claiming the suspected engine or drive for their own use!!!!!

I know I am going to take flak for this one!!! But if someone dumped a pile of money into a cheater motor and another team could claim it I would think that might curb both the cheating as well as accusations if the claimed part did nothing to enhance the performance of the boat that didthe claiming.....does that make sense??????

Sean

I like claiming everything should have a price except the trailer and the crew!
Steve

[Sean Stinson]

I like claiming everything should have a price except the trailer and the crew!
Steve

Depends on how many hot females are part of the crew!!!!!!

[DrGaryDC]

Black and white Rules - thats a good one

[Ratickle]

I like that one, I was thinking something similar when we were talking ECU's, just do a lottery and have an ECU swap in the pits, not so easy for motors, but y'all get the idea.

The biggest problem with ECU switching is the number of pins in the plugs. Ask some of the guys who do it. Switching them over and over could ruin them at any time.

I still think a program that starts with a few basics in a data acquisition system to start and base equipment rules. Then progresses to a strain guage system in the future, is the most feasible and economical way to go.

[Sean Stinson]

I promise you if a guy can potentially have his cheater motor claimed by another team the horse doodoo will stop!!!!! And if someone claims a motor that doesn't make his boat faster he will shut the phuck up in a big way!!!!!!