103 in an svl ?

[Mike A.]

Groundhog Day!!!!!!!!!!!!

George - lock in rules for the 10-15 older boats still out there then go out and have a blast. If there are really new boats coming then let them build a new class from scratch through P-1.

[Phantom1]

I am willing to bet anyone $ 5000 dollars that Brian Forehand can run a faster lap speed in your boat than you can.

Perhaps. What exactly is your claim to fame though?

[MANITIE]

Gino , your talking about 10 years ago ,the LLC days and Factory support...LLC made racing viable to Factorys to get involved,,They were also enforcing rules , they had a great tech , team ,,and they did have PARITY plans in place,,right !! they also had ( by your own words and Franks ) 20-25 boats in F-1 and F-2 and super cat and cat outboards.....here is what I think is an Issue ,,the promoters have figured out a formula to have races without any expenses,, ie,,no rules to enforce,,minimal volunteer staff ect..don,t get me wrong ,,we are all in business to make money ,I truly understand,,,unfortunately it comes at the expense of speck or enforced class racing,,
look at your class ,,,you spent (I,m guessing) 100,000 dollars on a new boat with an Illmore 650 hp..in P-5 ,,,,why ?? the guy who wins has 800 hp to go 75 ,, normally breaks out ( but don care ,,because the people on the beach don,t know) your race is usually won in the first 200 yards,,,, because anybody can go 75 ,,,and if you catch the guy in front of you ,,,you broke out ,you had to because everyone of can go 75 ,I don,t get it ?

AS for the ECM.S Issues , it ironic that all of a sudden "WE" have an issue ?? We asked ,,begged,,,pleaded ,,,to have the top 4 ecm,s removed and tested ,,we were told no problem ,we,ll do it ,,the class all agreed ,,,,but after hearing and seeing an svl going 103 (verified by wahoo who has a certified gps) and using high school math ,,, the only way an svl can go 103 is either by ,,turning the motor 5800 and having a efficiency hull rate better than cat outboard ,,,soo I guess you could say ,,WE DO HAVE AN ECM, ISSUE,,,,,but we are ALL willing to have ours checked ( well almost all)
THIS DEBATE CAN GO ON FOR EVER,,,BOTTOM LINE ,,,,???? COMING HAVE A GREAT DAY

George..on the parity in F1...We had rules and yes they were followed..but as far as all the boats running in a pack or running around the same speed...no..not even close..there were boats in F1 in some condition 7 + mph faster....but there was not complaining....they were the rules...

As far as Class 5...again...you are wrong...we have been passing boats on the 4 and 5 lap on a 8 lap race...and not braking out....in O/C there were position being changed all over the course all threw the race...we went into turn one with Midigator for 1st and ended up 5th....

P-class is not for everyone....
But you run your own class...you have the highest cash payout in Offshore in your class...
You want tight tech inspection..invest some of that money you guys are getting and get your own inspector...
You are right..it is very expensive to have techs out there...and OPA has been a GPS running Org...and also has no entree fee's

I understand the whole tech thing...been there and ran in it...and there is nothing more that I would want is a tough tech inspection....

But to not have a hard set a rules out...and you should have your own inspector in your class with the money you guys are getting and that would solve most of yor problems...

[Steve Miklos]

Perhaps. What exactly is your claim to fame though?

I will take that challenge and add a zero for $5,000.00
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

I am willing to bet anyone $ 5000 dollars that Brian Forehand can run a faster lap speed in your boat than you can.

I will take that challenge and add a zero for $5,000.00
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

George..on the parity in F1...We had rules and yes they were followed..but as far as all the boats running in a pack or running around the same speed...no..not even close..there were boats in F1 in some condition 7 + mph faster....but there was not complaining....they were the rules...

As far as Class 5...again...you are wrong...we have been passing boats on the 4 and 5 lap on a 8 lap race...and not braking out....in O/C there were position being changed all over the course all threw the race...we went into turn one with Midigator for 1st and ended up 5th....

P-class is not for everyone....
But you run your own class...you have the highest cash payout in Offshore in your class...
You want tight tech inspection..invest some of that money you guys are getting and get your own inspector...
You are right..it is very expensive to have techs out there...and OPA has been a GPS running Org...and also has no entree fee's

I understand the whole tech thing...been there and ran in it...and there is nothing more that I would want is a tough tech inspection....

But to not have a hard set a rules out...and you should have your own inspector in your class with the money you guys are getting and that would solve most of yor problems...

The reason we never had to kick in parity in F1 was that there was no dominate boat. When Fountain came to F1 they almost ruined it but they left after we implemented an X dimension rule and single vendor engine certification program.
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

I would like to know what you all think makes the Fountain faster and better than any thing we already have? Why is it called new tec. when that mold has been around for years and was never really a great seller. HP is HP,weight is weight and length is length. Where is all the new tec you all are talking about. I hear we need to all do more homework. Well some of us have already done all there is to do years ago. You cant change the HP. You cant change the weight. You cant change the gear. So that only leaves props, X dimesion and location of weight if your boat has that advantage. So I can tell you that I have done all this more than once and always hit the wall at 92-93 MPH. I have tryed Throttle up props,Heiring and labbed hydromotive. I have tried differant diamitors on most of them as well. I have tried from -1" to 3" below the bottom. I have lowered my deck in the front for better visability. I have put in a 60 gallon bladder. I have blue printed my bottom and 2 years ago added a inch to my pad on the bottom (which did nothing). All of these test were done back when we had Wild Card,Wild Ride and myself as the fastest boats of the day. WE ALL HIT THE WALL AT 92-93MPH. Know we have boats that still have the same rules but are 2-5 MPH faster. So Im looking for suggestions as to why we all hit the wall and there is still more speed out there. What am I missing?
The fountain has twin steps and I will asume that must help but the Lavy Craft and Activator also had twin steps.
I personaly want to run with the biggest class with the most boats to race. If I finished 5th out of 15 boats and my boat is 12 years older Im going to feel pretty dam good about myself. My 70k boat is all I can afford and at least Im in the game. Untill there is money and sponsors in the game its just a hobby for me. I like the people I race against and seeing good friends once a month.
MD

In the case of the Extreme (my configuaration) 32-33 % of the drag is wind drag at 90 MPH. The Fountain is cleaner from an aero standpoint without doing a CFD study how much cleaner is hard to say.

If the Fountan is legal they should welcome a data logger ( I run one) and we can all see just what is really there.
Steve

[mdkeywest]

I am willing to bet anyone $ 5000 dollars that Brian Forehand can run a faster lap speed in your boat than you can.

When you get back in from the water or (workin on the boat like the rest of us )
Check the forum as to youre challenge .
Cuz you just lost !

[shifter]

Only 3 boats can 95 MPH. And that sounds like GPS racing to me. Pat have you ever run in a bat boat.The bat boat thing didnt work beacause you better be in good shape for the beating in the ocean and the small block motor is just not that fast. It was great to start off in one of them to see if you like racing but no one was buying them at that price and renting was fairly expensive if you wanted to keep doing it. You cant compair a SVL to a bat boat.

The only single engine boat I have driven was the 30 ft Cougar A boat. It was fn for testing but a rough ride I would hate to run those speeds in a 24.

I watched several batboat races in europe and seeing a bunch of the same boat running around out there was boring.

My point was if you want to keep the boats in check put the data on and keep them reigned in on the overall speed to make it close between all the boats who are similar. If you want to watch their rpm look at the data, its simple and cost effective.

The sport should be progressive and welcome change.

pat W

[Dunbar 104]

Gino

One thing I am tired of hearing is all the illegal bottom mods. Ok who has them? How do you know? To my knowledge the Fountain has the most, and go's way past what blueprinting is. How do I know cause I got a straight edge and a tape. I have been under every boat that has raced this year. Oh the pic of half the bottom ground off of the Fountain in the air. I have yet to see a Phantom or Extreme like that. I would bet that the older boats fit the mold better than than the new one, if there is even a mold for it. Getting tired of the old boats getting held to the rules and the new boat keeps getting a pass As for ECMs mine is stock check it. I think we asked to get them checked at the last race. There are only 2 ways to make a 525 sound significantly different.

[SVL Magnet]

I am willing to bet anyone $ 5000 dollars that Brian Forehand can run a faster lap speed in your boat than you can.

I agree, 100%.......people that want to add zeros to this ,, should save there money and buy a boat if they have 50,000 to loose ?. ....I learned this from Bob T and Johnie T,,, they can do things with a boat that others only dream of,,,,

Do not be so close minded to focus only on the "Factor T"
* Factor T ( Technology), is basic with this entry level class of boat racing,: Sealed Mercury Motors,, Weight, Hull Design, and set up. I bet the Fountain team has an inventory of more finely tuned props than all the other SVL teams together. Combine that with the daily testing that is done with set ups, weight transfer, changes in CG. I doubt if they weigh anymore than the limite of 4750. Fountain may build an efficient hull, How come the builder of older Phantom boats, is not testing and racing?

* Factor E ( Experience), Do not underestimate the experience factor, Brian F, sets more V bottoms than anyone in the world, tests boats,and prepares 7 days a week. When I interviewed Doc and his kids, it was clear that they have been racing every type of motorized vehicle you could imagine, for a decade ( Bennie R told me they kicked his A, this past winter in the mountains,,,) And when it comes to boats they have been fortunate to have been influenced/ trained by Dave Scott, John Tomlinson, Bennie Robinson, Reggie Fountain and regularly by Brain ,,,, they may have not been in your rear view mirror before the season,,,but they have everyone else in the rear view mirror now,,,,,

Earthworks is correct, reminds me.....the situation with Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder, do not underestimate the "E" factor in the other team

[Diver & Driver]

Gino

One thing I am tired of hearing is all the illegal bottom mods. Ok who has them? How do you know? To my knowledge the Fountain has the most, and go's way past what blueprinting is. How do I know cause I got a straight edge and a tape. I have been under every boat that has raced this year. Oh the pic of half the bottom ground off of the Fountain in the air. I have yet to see a Phantom or Extreme like that. I would bet that the older boats fit the mold better than than the new one, if there is even a mold for it. Getting tired of the old boats getting held to the rules and the new boat keeps getting a pass As for ECMs mine is stock check it. I think we asked to get them checked at the last race. There are only 2 ways to make a 525 sound significantly different.

This is a spec class, if you have legal motors , drives and hull,,......., and feel the other team is not legal,,, there should be a method for you to simply post 4-5,000 as a protest,,, but be prepared to loose it,,,,

[MANITIE]

Gino

One thing I am tired of hearing is all the illegal bottom mods. Ok who has them? How do you know? To my knowledge the Fountain has the most, and go's way past what blueprinting is. How do I know cause I got a straight edge and a tape. I have been under every boat that has raced this year. Oh the pic of half the bottom ground off of the Fountain in the air. I have yet to see a Phantom or Extreme like that. I would bet that the older boats fit the mold better than than the new one, if there is even a mold for it. Getting tired of the old boats getting held to the rules and the new boat keeps getting a pass As for ECMs mine is stock check it. I think we asked to get them checked at the last race. There are only 2 ways to make a 525 sound significantly different.

Mark...to answer your question on the hulls being changed...guys in your own class said they did....
I said...inspect all SVL's including the Fountain....ALL....if any mods were made to hull or engine they are not legal..and have them run in P-Class..
That means...cuting decks down and mods at all...andy engines not to full spec...
Now...I have heard that if all SVL's were inspected only 3 or 4 would pass....
That means...some of the older SVL's would not pass...So if you the Class Pres. is aware of that....don't you think thats a problem....and if your the class pres and you have it were a team can not go threw inspection and not be DQ....shame on you....
If you are the Class pres and some computers have been hacked off and they are not DQed...shame on you..
Everyone on here told you guys to put out a set of rules....and you as a class decided not to....
Now everyone is b!TCHING...
You can fixed this problem today if you wanted to....

There is plenty of gloating on how much payout you guys are getting...
You know just as well as everyone in your class...that computers are beign hacked....thats OK...and you are aware of decks being cut down and mods to hulls....and you are pointing at the Fountain....I'm not saying they are or are not.....but you know some older boats are....

Now if I just built a new SVL and heard some teams have hacked there computers off...why should I have to follow the rules....or better yet what rules...

Mike A is right..you guys just need to make a class thats just of older SVL's and make whatever rules you want and change them as offen as you want...

Cheating is cheating....if you know that the Fountain has made mods to its hull or engine more then some other teams have...its not who made more changes...1 change out of the rule book is cheating...period....

[baldtires]

i would be surprised if any of the other svl have modified computers, the fountain is the only one that clearly sounds like its turning more rpms then the others at the races i have been at.

[Ratickle]

Mark...to answer your question on the hulls being changed...guys in your own class said they did....
I said...inspect all SVL's including the Fountain....ALL....if any mods were made to hull or engine they are not legal..and have them run in P-Class..
That means...cuting decks down and mods at all...andy engines not to full spec...
Now...I have heard that if all SVL's were inspected only 3 or 4 would pass....
That means...some of the older SVL's would not pass...So if you the Class Pres. is aware of that....don't you think thats a problem....and if your the class pres and you have it were a team can not go threw inspection and not be DQ....shame on you....
Everyone on here told you guys to put out a set of rules....and you as a class decided not to....
Now everyone is b!TCHING...
You can fixed this problem today if you wanted to....

There is plenty of gloating on how much payout you guys are getting...
You know just as well as everyone in your class...that computers are beign hacked....thats OK...and you are aware of decks being cut down and mods to hulls....and you are pointing at the Fountain....I'm not saying they are or are not.....but you know some older boats are....

Now if I just built a new SVL and heard some teams have hacked there computers off...why should I have to follow the rules....

For the record Gino. I have not heard of a hacked computer until Smitty brought it up in this htread. As I said, I was shocked that was a possible issue, but he made it sound as if it were common knowledge that all have been.....

[Dunbar 104]

Mark...to answer your question on the hulls being changed...guys in your own class said they did....
I said...inspect all SVL's including the Fountain....ALL....if any mods were made to hull or engine they are not legal..and have them run in P-Class..
That means...cuting decks down and mods at all...andy engines not to full spec...
Now...I have heard that if all SVL's were inspected only 3 or 4 would pass....
That means...some of the older SVL's would not pass...So if you the Class Pres. is aware of that....don't you think thats a problem....and if your the class pres and you have it were a team can not go threw inspection and not be DQ....shame on you....
Everyone on here told you guys to put out a set of rules....and you as a class decided not to....
Now everyone is b!TCHING...
You can fixed this problem today if you wanted to....

There is plenty of gloating on how much payout you guys are getting...
You know just as well as everyone in your class...that computers are beign hacked....thats OK...and you are aware of decks being cut down and mods to hulls....and you are pointing at the Fountain....I'm not saying they are or are not.....but you know some older boat are....

Its this gray area of 2 different rule books and how they are interpreted.

Any way Bruce is the new Class rep.

[MANITIE]

This is a spec class, if you have legal motors , drives and hull,,......., and feel the other team is not legal,,, there should be a method for you to simply post 4-5,000 as a protest,,, but be prepared to loose it,,,,

That is how it use to be done....and it works...
But if you did that today half the class would fail...

[MANITIE]

Its this gray area of 2 different rule books and how they are interpreted.

Any way Bruce is the new Class rep.

Mark....you should have not stepped down...
You stepped into a hornest nest and it was not going to be fixed without problems being met head on...

There are SVL's out there that have follow the rule book....
and we could all agree the rules that APBA LLC had put in place worked...

If its not broke don't fix it.....

With Fountain in the Class and maybe O/L and maybe a few others...
This class is going to have to have the most highest level of tech out here...
and I know it cost money....but without a strong tech team..teams are going to cheat....

[Slandrew]

When people are winning the rules are fine when they loose whole different storyThat goes for all racers!

[Ratickle]

That is how it use to be done....and it works...
But if you did that today half the class would fail...

Not sure why you say that.