Can there still be no argument for profiling?

[macjazzy]

I apologize, Fund, your right. mine was a over reaction. I actually wasn't taking offense to any of that as a Christian. I fully agree Christianity has probably killed more people in the name of religion than any other. But the world was much bigger comparatively speaking. ( ie instant news, air-flight and internet has worked to make the world seem smaller) and I don't think the Catholic church would get away with that now. If they were still operating that way they would be no different nor should be treated any different than the Muslim terrorists of today. Murder or genocide in the name of any religion is obviously wrong and a misinterpretation of any modern religion that I am aware of.

[clayinaustin]

I think that social pressure from non-radicals against radicals would do more good than anything else.

Profiling would undoubtedly hassle and put out thousands of people who are completely innocent. But those people would eventually get tired of that hassle and begin to turn in the people that are the problem.

Do you really believe that??? I believe the opposite.

For example... If sailboaters and lake front owners get together and force "noise laws" on your local lake, do you get angry at them or at the three guys running with dry pipes?

If you start "profiling" a group, then the whole group gets mad at you. They don't get mad at the few "bad apples" that caused the profiling. They get mad at the people doing the profiling.

Just my two-cents...

P.S. For the record, I am against "profiling".

[clayinaustin]

As far as "recent" killings... I believe there has more unreported slaughter in Africa over the last 50 years than any other continent. The civil wars and "clensing" that has taken place there is unbelieveable!

[Ted]

Do you really believe that??? I believe the opposite.

For example... If sailboaters and lake front owners get together and force "noise laws" on your local lake, do you get angry at them or at the three guys running with dry pipes?

If you start "profiling" a group, then the whole group gets mad at you. They don't get mad at the few "bad apples" that caused the profiling. They get mad at the people doing the profiling.

Just my two-cents...

P.S. For the record, I am against "profiling".

Clay, I am going to turn your argument around on you because of something I am dealing with right now. We have a fight over noise laws in MD right now. When I went to the Natl. Marine Manufacturer's website I was hoping to get some ammo for the fight, since they used to oppose noise laws. Well, Lo and behold, now they have their own model noise law, that MD is actually trying to implement. Now, why would a marine manufacturer's group want to hurt a segment of their members? Because they were seeing speed and restriction of use regulations being put forth that harmed ALL boaters, not just the ones with loud boats. SO, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. They decided it was better to restrict a small segment rather than all. My point? If we make life difficult for all the ME people because of a small number of zealots, they will work harder to stop those zealots. A vast majority of people in the ME want to move forward with the rest of the world, only a thin bond of loyalty because of religion keeps them supporting terror in the name of Islam, make that more unpalatable and you at least hinder the zealots more.

Oh, and BTW, yes I do get angry at sailboaters and property owners, they are selfish douchebags that want to impose their will on other people and restrict others enjoyment of the water.

[clayinaustin]

If we make life difficult for all the ME people because of a small number of zealots, they will work harder to stop those zealots.

I disagree.

[Ted]

I disagree.

Well then, all I have to say is

[clayinaustin]

Hee Hee! Jeff Dunham rocks!

[fund razor]

I apologize, Fund, your right. mine was a over reaction. I actually wasn't taking offense to any of that as a Christian. I fully agree Christianity has probably killed more people in the name of religion than any other. But the world was much bigger comparatively speaking. ( ie instant news, air-flight and internet has worked to make the world seem smaller) and I don't think the Catholic church would get away with that now. If they were still operating that way they would be no different nor should be treated any different than the Muslim terrorists of today. Murder or genocide in the name of any religion is obviously wrong and a misinterpretation of any modern religion that I am aware of.

I apologize for making you feel like you had to apologize.

I agree with you on the above.

[fund razor]

Do you really believe that??? I believe the opposite.

For example... If sailboaters and lake front owners get together and murder people in the name of God on your local lake....

I think that this analogy may be a better fit.

[TCEd]

Probably should profile Catholic priests since they molest young boys.

[fund razor]

Probably should profile Catholic priests since they molest young boys.

No question that they are profiled now.

[macjazzy]

The military fights wars, or in this case militants. They are controlled either formally, in our country , or informally by the ruling body and thus by the populous. If you turn any Military lose they by their nature will fight till they are either victorious or all dead.

If we had the technology and the desire to fight either World War with the pinpoint precission we have now. Where only combatants are targeted and hurt or killed both of those wars would have gone on much much longer than they did.

The populous of the Axis country's in WWI and WWII were who put an end to the wars, or made their respective military's give up because the people at home could no longer live like we forced them to live, at war. Nor could see a upside to continued fighting on their part.

I am NOT, in any way, advocating mass genocide on all Muslims, or forced internment, and anything of the sort. Just make it uncomfortable to travel or have business in our country to the extent we are able to under the law. Ie extended searches for access to flights, increased scrutiny for visa's, stop building them schools and water treatment plants, that kind of thing. Until they as a people decide they are not interested in being put out for the minority of radicals among their populous. Then they will put a stop to all this internally. I fully believe that.

We have made it too easy and comfortable for the majority to care about stopping their own minority who are the source of this problem.

[Playn]

Adolf Hitler was raised Christian Catholic.

Chalk up 6 or 7 million to his account.

And all this time I just thought he was a phuckn nut.....I didn't know he was trying to convert people to Catholicism. I really don't recall too many christian groups beheading people lately just because victim belongs to the wrong "club"

[fund razor]

And all this time I just thought he was a phuckn nut.....I didn't know he was trying to convert people to Catholicism. I really don't recall too many christian groups beheading people lately just because victim belongs to the wrong "club"

He was raised in Austria, and at the time that pretty much meant raised Catholic.
His later goals were unrelated. I am pretty sure that most Nazi symbols and images had pagan origins and connotations.

[clayinaustin]

This may be the wrong place and time, but... A non-Muslim just commitied suicide by flying a plane into a government building. It is clearly an act of domestic terrorism.

"Profiling" would not have helped in this case...

[macjazzy]

I also never heard that Hitlers goals were religious in nature, For whatever twisted reason he felt Jews were an inferior race of people and that didn't fit in with his plan to create a "The Master race". But I am not 100% sure of that, he may have had some religious craziness going on in his bean.

[macjazzy]

This may be the wrong place and time, but... A non-Muslim just commitied suicide by flying a plane into a government building. It is clearly an act of domestic terrorism.

"Profiling" would not have helped in this case...

You are absolutely correct, but I don't see the parallel to what we are discussing here, other than he used a plane to do it.

I am not familiar with this incident though. Are they attributing it to a Muslim or a Muslim sympathiser?

[TCEd]

You are absolutely correct, but I don't see the parallel to what we are discussing here, other than he used a plane to do it.

I am not familiar with this incident though. Are they attributing it to a Muslim or a Muslim sympathiser?

One could say we should profile christian Americans to have prevented this guy and Tim Mcvey from performing acts of violence against the U.S.A.

[Awaken]

As a Christian, I (and I believe every other Christian) denounce what this recent guy did and what McVey did. I suppose that is the major difference.

After Fort Hood, the only thing I heard from the Muslims were fears that we would start profiling against them. Where was the mass outrage?

[clayinaustin]

More people died yesterday when a 52 year-old white male Christian flew his plane into a US government building than from the "shoe bomber" and "underware bomber" combined!

Do we really need to continue to discuss "profiling?" How about if we just stop people who buy one-way tickets, in cash, and going to northern US cities in winter without coats?