Photo Theft Question

[jayboat]

I spoke with Ron earlier today and he has asked for a couple of days to get the facts sorted out. Seemed reasonable since he was just getting home from the weekend.

I'll update as soon as I hear from him.

[Prostock85]

In advance I would like to apologize for my ignorance in this situation, but I have questions. Being that I have no clue about copyright laws... When can a picture of someone elses property be taken and sold for profit?

Basically as I'm reading this, I'm figuring that there are obviously a vast variety of photographers who travel the world in hopes of getting "that shot". But there lies the confusion for me. Jayboat took an awesome shot of Miss Geico, then posted it (assuming) for others to enjoy and also likely be available for purchase. Now say I do purchase the photo from Naplesimage.com (sp?) leagally.. Does Miss Geico get a cut? What about poker/fun runs? I mean, hell, Stecz is ALL over the place. Does he get paid for pictures taken of him?

Like I said, I'm sorry for not fully understanding, but photos are a gray area in my opinion. There are just too many variables such as who's property it was taken on, who's in it, what's in it, what event it is etc...

Tim, it was nice meeting you at the Hudson Run, keep up the good work

Thanks to all the photographers for help getting us in the north though these painful winters!

[jayboat]

Prostock-

anything in the public arena where people have 'no reasonable expectation of privacy' can be photographed.
the rule is: "If I can see it, I can shoot it." (think Brittany and Lindsey and Paris)

Geico does not get a cut when I sell an image of them, although I GIVE them prints and posters because I like em and I hope one day they will give me a ride in the Platinum.

selling a print of a photo does not automatically grant additional rights to said image, although that can be part of the deal.
rights to an image can vary depending on the needs of the customer-
such as digital use only, one-time use, limited use, unlimited use, etc
all spelled out in a contract.

[Ratickle]

I mean, hell, Stecz is ALL over the place. Does he get paid for pictures taken of him?

Stecz pays us management fees to try to make him popular.....


Still not working though, maybe plastic surgery will help...

[Ratickle]

Geico does not get a cut when I sell an image of them, although I GIVE them prints and posters because I like em and I hope one day they will give me a ride in the Platinum.

I bet you do.

[Buoy]

Prostock, you raise very valid questions.

When I was in HS, and had my senior photos taken, I recall having to sign the rights of the photos to the photog.
One of the photos of me was used in an advertising postcard sent out by the photo studio. I wasn't even told that it was being used, and never compensated in any way - only found out about it when someone else saw it and mentioned it. I actually had to call the studio to request a copy of the postcard for myself.
I would have thought that they would need my permission to use my image in advertising...
Guess not.

[Ratickle]

Prostock, you raise very valid questions.

When I was in HS, and had my senior photos taken, I recall having to sign the rights of the photos to the photog.
One of the photos of me was used in an advertising postcard sent out by the photo studio. I wasn't even told that it was being used, and never compensated in any way - only found out about it when someone else saw it and mentioned it. I actually had to call the studio to request a copy of the postcard for myself.
I would have thought that they would need my permission to use my image in advertising...
Guess not.

Not once you sign. I had the same thing in a McDonalds commercial when I was in High School.

[Buoy]

Not once you sign. I had the same thing in a McDonalds commercial when I was in High School.

Ding! fries are done, Ding! fries are done!

[Ratickle]

Ding! fries are done, Ding! fries are done!

Naw, Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.....

[Prostock85]

Prostock-

anything in the public arena where people have 'no reasonable expectation of privacy' can be photographed.
the rule is: "If I can see it, I can shoot it." (think Brittany and Lindsey and Paris)

Geico does not get a cut when I sell an image of them, although I GIVE them prints and posters because I like em and I hope one day they will give me a ride in the Platinum.

selling a print of a photo does not automatically grant additional rights to said image, although that can be part of the deal.
rights to an image can vary depending on the needs of the customer-
such as digital use only, one-time use, limited use, unlimited use, etc
all spelled out in a contract.

Thank you for the clarification

[PARADOX]

There are legalitties, professionalism and ethics... and the right thing to do.

Jay takes great pictures and willing to shear them on the internet.
WE all ejoy them for "NON profit". Now.. when some one uses some photos for profit generating purposes, the Copy right kickes in.
Don't know what the whole story is with the Geico picture, but I'm sure and hiope that Jay and the Geico team as well as the "end users" will settle and come to an understanding.

That being said.. There is a principle issue. I'm sure Jay won't go hungry not getting anything for the picture being used. It would be appropriate and the right "ethics" to ask or discuss the picture usage with Jay and not just arbitrary "take" it for a profit generating venue. The legalities on these things are pretty complicated, but besides the legal issues, there is a common courtesy and professionalism that's missing. I would be pi$$ed too. I have no doubt that Jay would willing to “provide” pictures for Geico or for most other “end users” if it was discussed and requested. Getting some $‘s for his efforts are well deserved, but the integrity of today’s society is a lost trait. I go out of my way to help some one when I’m asked, or talked to, and I always ask if I’m in a need or want some help, or looking for a “favor” of a sort. And I get help. I don’t just go and “get it” or “take it’ even when I have the authority or the hierarchy to do so. You screw me?! You looking at a 12GA. It’s a principle thing and we all need to live by our principles.
I just hope that the “principles” that once governed mankind will get back into our society and all the lawyers go fly a kite. My .02 and a half.


See you in Jax Jay.. I hear you will be on the helo.. I'll get the boat waxed for some great shots.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Prostock, you raise very valid questions.

When I was in HS, and had my senior photos taken, I recall having to sign the rights of the photos to the photog.
One of the photos of me was used in an advertising postcard sent out by the photo studio. I wasn't even told that it was being used, and never compensated in any way - only found out about it when someone else saw it and mentioned it. I actually had to call the studio to request a copy of the postcard for myself.
I would have thought that they would need my permission to use my image in advertising...
Guess not.

You signed what we call a Model Release Contract.

Depending on the organization, the waiver release people sign to enter an event whether it be Racing or Poker Runs usually will have something in there explaining that you are well aware that photography and or video may be used in the event and by signing the waiver you release all rights to the organization regarding the media content and acknowledge that the organization may use such media how they see fit. The 1st owner of the copyrights is the person that takes the shot. Then and only then he can sign off the rights in many instances. A 1 time use in a magazine, or a time limit use of 1 year etc.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Tim, it was nice meeting you at the Hudson Run, keep up the good work!

Thank you !

Looking forward to doing it again in the Fall !

Reprocessing the images for a second time. The new software through me a few curves but I am getting there. I most likely will reload the website with new images and new image ID's.
Once done I will let everyone know the pics are on their way.

[MacGyver]

Not once you sign. I had the same thing in a McDonalds commercial when I was in High School.

Ding! fries are done, Ding! fries are done!

That's actually a BK commercial. But still to funny...
"Would you like an apply pie with that, would you like an apply pie with that.....

[Buoy]

You signed what we call a Model Release Contract.

Depending on the organization, the waiver release people sign to enter an event whether it be Racing or Poker Runs usually will have something in there explaining that you are well aware that photography and or video may be used in the event and by signing the waiver you release all rights to the organization regarding the media content and acknowledge that the organization may use such media how they see fit. The 1st owner of the copyrights is the person that takes the shot. Then and only then he can sign off the rights in many instances. A 1 time use in a magazine, or a time limit use of 1 year etc.

At the time, I thought it was pretty cool, but would have at least liked to be notified of the use.
Kind of a courtesy.

That's actually a BK commercial. But still to funny...
"Would you like an apply pie with that, would you like an apply pie with that.....

Really?? I'll have to look that up.
You aren't TRICKing me are you?

[Expensive Date]

Naw, Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.....

That was YOU!!!!!!

[sellsman11]

Really?? I'll have to look that up.
You aren't TRICKing me are you?

"Dont touch the fries in hot grease. It really hurts bad and so do skin graphs!!"


Let me assist you............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92utho4PjH0

[Ratickle]

That was YOU!!!!!!

Just in a radio commercial, not the slogan.

[jayboat]

I want to thank everyone who offered words of support regarding this issue, and let you know that it has been completely resolved to my satisfaction.

In addition, I would like to thank Ron Polli for his immediate attention to this matter. He called me back every time when he said he would, and did his best to track down the facts and conveyed the info to me as soon as he had it. No small feat considering he was away from home and right in the middle of an event weekend.

I also want to point out that the Miss Geico Racing organization had no involvement whatsoever in this. Everything posted here that may have insinuated such was pure speculation- including my post. I was very upset and wanted to have all the information regarding that specific photo in the thread. I love the team and their boats- and like all fans, I'm extremely grateful for everything they bring to the sport we love.

ok, that's it. I've asked the mods to lock this down. Any further dialog is unnecessary. thanks.