Handgun for a friend question

[Ratickle]

I went to one of those Florida ranges with my kids last year.They rent to any one the other people looked like perps.

We've seen you. You're right, you could be a perp.....

[JupiterSunsation]

i feel like we may have hijacked this a little. Sorry about that x rated. Good luck with the hunt.

+1........

[Megabyte*3]

If you have to have an auto, I'd look at the SIG P230 in 380ACP.

I second the recommendation. I would also recommend trying out a SIG P239 in 9mm. I have used one with a DAK trigger. First shot requires about 8 lbs of pull. Subsequent shots are less than 4 pounds. Very manageable recoil.

The recommendation to carry in condition 1, i.e. cocked & locked is for a traditional 1911 - typically a .45 ACP. That is way too powerful a caliber for hands that suffer from RA.

Keep in mind that recoil will be mitigated by the weight of the gun. The Ruger LCP & LCR, although technical wonders, are very light and transmit a great deal of recoil to the hands. If her knuckles are at all disformed by the RA, then she may have trouble lining up the gun so that recoil impact is directed through the hand & wrist in a straight line to the forearm. In other words, her wrist may be cocked to one side or the other and therefore have to absorb most of the impact.

All that being said, in a close range self defense situation, I doubt she will be concerned about the recoil. Take her to the range and try out a few handguns and calibers. She'll figure out pretty quickly which one(s) she likes.

[Tommy Gun]

Check out the ruger LCR if you can find one. I bought one a while back and it is a great concealed piece that shoots WAY better than it should.

The LCP is my wife's carry...very nice gun.

[2112]

I remember reading an interview a few years back with Isaac Stern, the greatest violinist that ever lived. He said he absolutely had to practice several hous every day. He said if he didn't, the next day he could tell. he went on to say that if he skjipped two or three, there were maybe two people on the planet that could tell as well and that if he skipped a week, the audience could tell. And he'd been playing for 60+ myears at that point. If Perlman needs to practice regularly, so do you.

So....which is it Chris? Perlman or Stern?

Another Ford/Chevy argument? I will take Perlman.
.

[2112]

If you have to have an auto, I'd look at the SIG P230 in 380ACP. Not as powerful as 9mm but with the right ammo it's definitely a good argument-stopper. (Just ask James Bond) In fact, the 230 is pretty much a Walther PPK copy, with some refinements.

I agree on the Sig. I am very happy with it's performance and fit and finish. Also, Sphinx makes very a nice 9mm and 40 ACP but they are getting Rare. The Pic is a police special, short nose. Both are very reasonable trigger pulls from the factory.

[Chris]

So....which is it Chris? Perlman or Stern?

Another Ford/Chevy argument? I will take Perlman.
.

Stern. We saw Perlman last year and I had him in my mind while I was typing that. Even Perlman would pick Stern.

[ar15meister]

Yeah - we went shooting yesterday and thats how it came up. I was hoping someone knew of a DA/SA revolver or auto with a light trigger pull or some other solution.

HK USP 9mm carry version.

single and double action with a decocker.

She can have it safety on with the hammer cocked.

I have done CCW courses but I have never carried in real life scenarios (being Canadian). I dont have the same practical knowledge of alot of these guys IMO. I do like the HK though.

The HK is a very reliable pistol and the 9mm has a bit smaller handgrips than my .45 I think.

[Chris]

But no argument on handguns. The Sphinx is a really cool piece. It's a CZ pattern handgun, as are so many others. Based on the Czech CZ75- which also was the infamout Bren 10. Jeff Cooper loved the CZ- except for it's limitation of being 9mm.

Made in Switzerland, the Sphinx is commonly referred to as the Rolex of handguns. And they're built with the same precision.



Another Swiss CZ copy is the ITM Solothurn. Not nearly the finish as the Sphinx, but definitely a refinement over the fine Czechoslovakian craftsmanship of the CZ.



Just don't break them Parts are tough.

[Dave]

I have a female friend that wants a handgun. I am getting her to take a CCW class, not for the CCW, but for the safety aspects.

Here is the dilema: She has rhumatoid arthritis and can't comfortably pull a double action trigger. I also have reservations about her carrying a Glock type trigger loose in her purse. Suggestions?

The question is how bad is the arthritis. Is the weight of the weapon an issue? (the lighter the more recoil) Can she cock a double action revolver? Can she pull the slide on a semi-auto to chamber the first round and cock the pistol? Can she hold the pistol firmly enough to be sure a semi-auto chambers the second round or the recoil doesn't cause her to drop the weapon? You need a reasonable amount of hand strength to handle a hand gun, even a .22. If she is concerned about home defense a 20 ga shotgun might be the ticket. Two hands, and much better control.

Dave

[2112]

But no argument on handguns. The Sphinx is a really cool piece. It's a CZ pattern handgun, as are so many others. Based on the Czech CZ75- which also was the infamout Bren 10. Jeff Cooper loved the CZ- except for it's limitation of being 9mm..

I agree on the 9mm limitation. I always wanted a Bren 10 but have never even seen one. I settled for Delta Elites. The stainless is a 13 y/o build (needs freshening) the blued is never fired waiting to be hot rodded. Colt, the small block chevy...er...small block Ford of handguns.

10mm is incredibly powerful. FMJ will go through a fridge with only a surgical entry and exit. Fridge hardly wiggles. 45ACP puched a 4 inch hole on entry, lodged in the back side and rocked it pretty good.

[Never Enuff]

One thing Dave said you might keep in mind. It's called "limp wrist". Failure to feed the second round because you are not holding the gun tightly enough. It may be very important if she has problems with her hands and wrist. Make sure she test fires all the guns she is considering. You should also do her a favor and talk to her about carrying a weapon. If she has any doubts she can use it when necessary please don't let her get a gun. Someone will just take it away from her and use her own gun or her. We all say--"hell, I got no problem capping someone". Saying it and acually doing it are two different things. Shooting a paper target is a lot different than looking someone in the eye and pulling the trigger!!!!
Jay

[Uncle Dave]

I have a female friend that wants a handgun. I am getting her to take a CCW class, not for the CCW, but for the safety aspects.

Here is the dilema: She has rhumatoid arthritis and can't comfortably pull a double action trigger. I also have reservations about her carrying a Glock type trigger loose in her purse. Suggestions?

Ive been down this road a lot.

New shooter, weak hands.

Id go with a small DA/SA combo revolver hands down over an auto.
Much simpler, easier to clean, minimal if any loading issues .

Fumbling with a spring loaded clip with arthritis isnt much easier than holding it with a good hand and racking a slide for an initial shot.

any little autos with a decocker yet?

Go with something like an SP101.
most specifically a 357 so she can practice with manageable and cheap 38 or 38 + p. practice rounds and can keep a "hot set of 357's" ready to go.

She can single action it easily all day long and no worry of limp wrist stove piping.

There are vast numbers of spring and trigger kits for this gun. Heres just one supplier.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=88&t=697914

If you lived in LA Id take you to a range and let you try em.

Uncle Dave

[JnT]

I carried a Taurus 85 .38 for a few years. Has a few thousand rounds through it and has never given any trouble. Relatively inexpensive and used to be cheap to shoot.
Easy for a beginner to learn with as well.

[Chris]

I agree on the 9mm limitation. I always wanted a Bren 10 but have never even seen one. I settled for Delta Elites. The stainless is a 13 y/o build (needs freshening) the blued is never fired waiting to be hot rodded. Colt, the small block chevy...er...small block Ford of handguns.

10mm is incredibly powerful. FMJ will go through a fridge with only a surgical entry and exit. Fridge hardly wiggles. 45ACP puched a 4 inch hole on entry, lodged in the back side and rocked it pretty good.

All the Bren is now is an interesting collectible. They had major magazine issues and as you can imagine you'd better be a master machinist if you want to shoot it.

The 10mm is notorious for breaking frame parts on autoloading handguns. The Colt's are pretty sturdy, but I've seen a few. Can't say I've ever seen any others hold up. It's not so much of a problem because the ammo is so expensive. Few prople burn several hundred rounds a week at the range.

I have a friend that has an FBI-version HK MP5. It's chambered in 10mm. Compared to the 9mm, it's an anti-aircraft gun. It rock & rolls.

You may have seen this before- pretty good site for CZ and CZ-pattern handguns. I've caught some great deals from here before. http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php

[Wardey]

I have a Colt 10 mm Delta Elite and love it, but it sits in the safe now due to ammo. Dave

[Uncle Dave]

If you go to a junkyard you can watch 9mm's bounce of car windows.

10's are awesome, but you are stuck with an auto
40's same thing

Neither are cheap to shoot.
Nor particularly easy to find in rural areas
Both of these things make "getting good" much more money and difficult.

38's loaded into a 357 are easy on recoil-
Easy to find
The only cheaper thing is a 22.

The .357 is as good or better than ANY round of ANY size In terms of measured 1 shot stop effectiveness.

Better than a 45
Equal to a 40
Equal to a 10
Better than even a 44 magnum!

Here is some quick data on relative stopping power.
Much more is available with a tiny bit of googling.


.45 auto
Load vel. energy penetr F.Dia. One-stop
230gr Hyd-shok 850 349 12 0.78 94%
230gr Goldsabr 875 391 14 0.75 93%
Corbon 185grJHP 1150 544 11.3 0.70 92%

.40 auto
Corbon135gJHP 1300 507 9.8 0.56 96%
Fedrl 155grJHP 1140 448 12 0.65 94%
165gr Goldsabr 1150 485 12 0.68 94%

.357magnum
Fedrl 125grJHP 1450 584 12 0.65 96%
Fedrl 110grJHP 1295 410 10 0.40 90%
125gr GoldSabr 1220 413 13 0.60 84%

9mm auto
Corbon115grJHP+P 1350 466 14 0.55 91%
Rem.124grGoldSabr+P 1180 384 12 0.65 83%
Win 115grSiltip 1225 383 8 0.72 83%

.38special
Corbon115gr JHP+P 1250 399 15 0.58 83%
Win158grSWCHP+P 890 278 15 0.62 78%
Fedrl 125grJHP+P 945 248 12 0.69 73%

.44mag
Win210grSilvertip 1250 729 15 0.66 90%
Corbon180gUrban 1200 576 15 0.70 90%

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/calloadgoshin.htm

I still say a relatively small revolver with a spring kit that can use different loads is a better first weapon, and learning tool than ANY automatic.

Im not anti automatic in ANY way and own the following.

Ruger P90 45
Browning 9MM Hi power
Glock 9 (hate it)
AMT "hardballer" long slide 45


I own the following revolvers

Colt python 357
Ruger security 6 357
Ruger SP-101
S&W 22
S&W 686 357



UD

[X-Rated30]

For an auto, how about the springfield XD9 sub compact? I have shot the .40 subcompact and was TOTALLY impressed by the lack of recoil. The 9 also has the double spring system, so I can only imagine how soft its recoil must be. In addition, it has the trigger safety, but also has the backstrap safety. The trigger pull is very managable as well. I have never heard anything bad about them - all good things. Any opinions?

[Chris]

Another option is a Taser. As has been said, a weapon you can't effectively use is more of a detriment than a benefit. And ANYONE can use a Taser.

[MarylandMark]

Another option is a Taser. As has been said, a weapon you can't effectively use is more of a detriment than a benefit. And ANYONE can use a Taser.

I was thinking the same thing for the GF. Plus if I mess up I'm not sure I want some thing that can out holes in me laying around