Let's try a different approach

[XtremeRacing]

Big water always levels the playing field.

[Chris]

Its called offshore racing. A real ocean race and a lot of people would be suprised how old and new boats are competive in the same class. Not about who gets to the turn first.

Yeah, but you gotta' choose. Do you want real offshore racing or do you want actual races that happen that have prize money and boat sponsorship?

[Top Banana]

The open water races are better. I wish we would move back to longer courses in open water.

This is exactly what HORBA is trying to do. When Offshore Racing first started in the modern era......late 50's, there was only one race each year....Miami to Nassau. Everyone worked all year to get something ready to run in it.

HORBA is doing the same thing with our two events per year....February for the Miami to Key West race and Sept for the Around Long Island Marathon. We want to have "Events", not a race series so we don't interfere with the other race groups.

We invite everyone who wants to race to have a chance to run.....from real race boats, modern and historic to poker runners to center consoles to sports fisherman types. Engine and boat manufacturers, come and show the world the products you make can take it in real world conditions. There will be plenty of room for everyone over 185 miles on the way to Key West.

This race date, February 20, 2010, is before any of the other organizations start their schedules. We don't want to take away from any other race group, but want to welcome all who want to try this kind of racing.

[skaterdave]

two points
1. these long run events are really cool and should somehow be incorporated into todays racing. but i think there need to be some kinda of safety and towing program in affect. as a racer/boat owner you have to think of the bigger picture also and rationalize whats being put at stake $$$$-wise.

2. the "worlds" is probably one of the key factors in the down fall of overall boat racing. there should be a "world champ" but he should be the guy that has won the most races or done the best ALL YEAR! the current setup with KW as the worlds lets teams show up for just that one race and have a shot at the title. how does this promote a quality product of racing all year when guys can just show up and cherry pick the last race.

[Ratickle]

two points
1. these long run events are really cool and should somehow be incorporated into todays racing. but i think there need to be some kinda of safety and towing program in affect. as a racer/boat owner you have to think of the bigger picture also and rationalize whats being put at stake $$$$-wise.

2. the "worlds" is probably one of the key factors in the down fall of overall boat racing. there should be a "world champ" but he should be the guy that has won the most races or done the best ALL YEAR! the current setup with KW as the worlds lets teams show up for just that one race and have a shot at the title. how does this promote a quality product of racing all year when guys can just show up and cherry pick the last race.

Weren't the World's originally set up to do that, but differently? You had too race at least four races in you district, beit Europe, South America, USA west, USA Midwest, etc. Then you were champ of that region maybe. Then the World's was the one race where all those regional racers got together?

[skaterdave]

or you can read the fine print, which gives sbi the right to grant any boat it sees fit an exception and allow them to race, even if they don't meet any of the qualifications.

but even the 4 race rule still makes my case. the world champ is not the best of the best, he's just the guy that won that last set of races. imagine if nascar operated that way, you think those top teams would go out and race as hard as they do all year?

if you did a points total award system if would force the teams to run all year. and then you could pay all the prize money at the end with just a little tow money during the year, just enough to offset some of the costs.

[Chris]

two points
1. these long run events are really cool and should somehow be incorporated into todays racing. but i think there need to be some kinda of safety and towing program in affect. as a racer/boat owner you have to think of the bigger picture also and rationalize whats being put at stake $$$$-wise.

2. the "worlds" is probably one of the key factors in the down fall of overall boat racing. there should be a "world champ" but he should be the guy that has won the most races or done the best ALL YEAR! the current setup with KW as the worlds lets teams show up for just that one race and have a shot at the title. how does this promote a quality product of racing all year when guys can just show up and cherry pick the last race.

Nobody there even cares. The event is the draw. Seeing the action close up in the harbor and the throngs of boat nuts everywhere all week. And how would you even know who won? Go to the private ceremony Sunday night?

[skaterdave]

Nobody there even cares. The event is the draw. Seeing the action close up in the harbor and the throngs of boat nuts everywhere all week. And how would you even know who won? Go to the private ceremony Sunday night?

ae you talking about the sarasota race last weekend ?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Weren't the World's originally set up to do that, but differently? You had too race at least four races in you district, beit Europe, South America, USA west, USA Midwest, etc. Then you were champ of that region maybe. Then the World's was the one race where all those regional racers got together?

It used to be you had to run at least three races and finished at least 3rd in at least one of them. You could not just show up and run. As fleets dwindled these old rules were relaxed.

The also used to race 3 days and in SUPER, OPEN and MODIFIED they would run 350 miles over the 3 days. Boats would come from around the world. A win was a true accomplishment.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Nobody there even cares. The event is the draw. Seeing the action close up in the harbor and the throngs of boat nuts everywhere all week. And how would you even know who won? Go to the private ceremony Sunday night?

Some people to care.

[XtremeRacing]

Jim most of the things you mentioned are what the racers voted on. The shorter races is one of the things they wanted. The longer races are to hard on the equipment and there was alot of teams falling out by Sunday. It still bite alot of teams now, and no one want to win not racing all the boats in their class. Three day of racing KW no matter how many miles is a chore.SBI still has the 2 race rule to run in KW ( with an org.)

[Chris]

ae you talking about the sarasota race last weekend ?

Key West Worlds

[Chris]

Some people to care.

The racers. Everyone else left the island not knowing who won, nor did they look it up later. But they all had one hell of a good time.

[Ratickle]

The racers. Everyone else left the island not knowing who won, nor did they look it up later. But they all had one hell of a good time.

Come on now. I bet there were at least a thou here who looked it up and cared.....

[stevequick]

or you can read the fine print, which gives sbi the right to grant any boat it sees fit an exception and allow them to race, even if they don't meet any of the qualifications.

but even the 4 race rule still makes my case. the world champ is not the best of the best, he's just the guy that won that last set of races. imagine if nascar operated that way, you think those top teams would go out and race as hard as they do all year?

if you did a points total award system if would force the teams to run all year. and then you could pay all the prize money at the end with just a little tow money during the year, just enough to offset some of the costs.

I really love this different approach idea. Why don't we try this: Limit the contributors to a racing forum to folks designated as competitors. When those of us who spend the money and take the risks to keep this sport alive have to read drivel written by people with specific agendas and little factual knowledge it's disheartening. When people who might otherwise be racing read it, it is incredibly detrimental. If a forum were "competitors only" we could have dialog between those who put their lives and money on the line and have had a say in where we now find ourselves.

[Ted]

Steve, we are trying to maintain an open and professional discussion site related to all facets of the sport. That said, there is no reason to have a "Racer Only" section. You make great points in your posts and I think those not directly involved can learn something from them. OTOH I think that sometimes the racers need to take into account other's ideas and opinions, sometimes there are real answers to why the sport cannot progress. Every other major motorsport has marketing gurus, focus groups, and trend analysis experts to help them tailor the product to be most attractive to the end user- the fan. We do not have that luxury but once in a while we do get an honest insight into why fans do or do not like what is going on. As for detrimental drivel, we offer two avenues-report it or refute it. Our mods are very attentive and if a comment or thread is reported we are on it ASAP. We also have other things in place to keep the discussion civil and hopefully, productive.

BTW, the Competitor designation is specifically so that anyone reading will know who is making a statement and attach the proper level of significance to it

[MarylandMark]

Billy Martin won last year's Cambridge race with a 30-year-old Cigarette with a back seat, chrome horns on the deck and rod holders in the gunwhales. Then he buzzed the dock.
I've seen alot of racing and it ranks up there as one of my favorite moments.

Exactly the situation I was thinking of when I posted!

I've heard repetitive knocks against the GPS classes over the years, but not one time have I ever heard a reasonable explanation why people would be opposed to it. Most times I hear "that's not real racing". But I'm not sure what that means.

Racing to me means man and machine laying it all on the very fine line between success and failure; not doing parade laps at 75MPH in a 105MPH boat. (Sorry to offend current "racers".)

OK- so GPS it is. Bump the current restrictions up by 20MPH.

Why don't we try this: Limit the contributors to a racing forum to folks designated as competitors.

I happen to agree with this and think that is how it was on some of the other boards in the past.

The problem with this approach is:

1- on the fence racers not involved. Could be a good thing; could be a bad thing. Either way seems like it has been proven racers can't get the show together on their own (ie- look at the current situation; but kudos to those making the changes to hopefully make it better! ).

2- fan input not involved. You have to give the fans what they want if you want them to pay your salary and isn't that the end goal of all of this. If racers knew what we wanted they would be flying to the race this weekend on a private jet while eating pealed grapes getting a foot massage vs driving their own rig to the race after wrenching all night (not all racers but I know many like this..).

I'm sure has been covered 101203 times before but I've never read it- sorry but "offshore racing" has never been one of my interest but hoping that changes if/when offshore racing changes.


ps- in all due respect of course. Mr.Quick- your boat is one of the ones I like to watch and congrats to you and Throttle Up on your success!

[Chris]

I really love this different approach idea. Why don't we try this: Limit the contributors to a racing forum to folks designated as competitors. When those of us who spend the money and take the risks to keep this sport alive have to read drivel written by people with specific agendas and little factual knowledge it's disheartening. When people who might otherwise be racing read it, it is incredibly detrimental. If a forum were "competitors only" we could have dialog between those who put their lives and money on the line and have had a say in where we now find ourselves.

That's certainly one possibility. But there are a couple of tradeoffs.

The first is that possibility that some non-racer contributes that "golden nugget" of a great idea that makes the whole thing better.

The second would be that those people you'd want to exclude are the ultimate customer for your product. They're the guys that are making a deliberate effort to attend your races- the guys that see your sponsor's messages and patronize the businesses in your host/sponsor cities.

Those to me seem to be reasonable tradeoffs to having to endure the occasional numbnuts comment. And it's also an opportunity for you and everyone in the racing community to connect with, inform and educate your fans.

I own a couple of businesses and I WISH there were boards like this where my customers had open conversations about their likes and interests.

[WHEELMAN]

Yeah, but you gotta' choose. Do you want real offshore racing or do you want actual races that happen that have prize money and boat sponsorship?

You have to build a foundation first. The race teams are the customers not the fans (what fans if you want to compare to the big motorsports). Your not going to get big sponorship, only a select few that did or do. Those teams are big money teams that get the major sponors. Those big companys just don't throw money out to anyone. Boating in general is a hobby that not everybody can relate to. Everybody drives a car.

[Chris]

You have to build a foundation first. The race teams are the customers not the fans (what fans if you want to compare to the big motorsports). Your not going to get big sponorship, only a select few that did or do. Those teams are big money teams that get the major sponors. Those big companys just don't throw money out to anyone. Boating in general is a hobby that not everybody can relate to. Everybody drives a car.

I'm guessing that if you had an appointment with a potential sponsor this afternoon, this isn't what you'd tell them.

Your approach would be fine if you were able to hook a visionary with deep pockets to fund it. But so far that's not working. And in our present economy, not likely.

There have been a rash of race cancellations this season simply because the people writing the checks didn't see the ROI. And the racers didn't just come anyway because they needed that purse money. So, respectfully, I'd disagree with your assertion.

So you're left with the one and only thing that's working- a grass-roots organization. I'd say the choices today are limited. And doing what you can to develop a fan base is now even more critical.