Warpath!

[Thunderman]

CUV made 0 pleasure versions that I know of and the owners of CUV´s, well mostly European Aristocrats so Drama or no Drama, take your pick but all around the tabloids in the day and getting a lot more ink.
And come to think of it the same philosophy that was applied in Apache, CUV and Larry Smith also applied for Lotus,Ferrari and Porsche and in that order regarding the will to please the audience...
How many pleasure versions vs raceboats did LS make which reputation got washed by Wellcraft ?
Guess the total number is less than Apache raceboats?

I´ve always wondered is the Legacy of Apaches just an American thing as seems overseas it doesn´t carry that high, even a Cig or a Magnum is a match.
The Brits especially state that Apache had their asses handed to them against the European competition and back in the day and wasn´t a threat in the toughest of them all, CTC race.


There´s a lot of other interesting stuff among those the audience knows nothing about and especially the Brits and Italians are renown for building only raceboats and caring less about selling on monday as those behind the builds are Load€d with ca£h in other busin€$$€$ and keep a very low profil£ of it.

Im preaty sure that apache was less concerned than the others in making a profit, mainly when you consider the source of the money used and the nature of the companies owner. Also, Ferrari in the times of Enzo was only interested in racing . Porsche and Lotus though remarkable where just a little more into it for the money generated by the sales.

[Magnum Mark]

cuv made 0 pleasure versions that i know of and the owners of cuv´s, well mostly european aristocrats so drama or no drama, take your pick but all around the tabloids in the day and getting a lot more ink.
And come to think of it the same philosophy that was applied in apache, cuv and larry smith also applied for lotus,ferrari and porsche and in that order regarding the will to please the audience...
How many pleasure versions vs raceboats did ls make which reputation got washed by wellcraft ?
Guess the total number is less than apache raceboats?

I´ve always wondered is the legacy of apaches just an american thing as seems overseas it doesn´t carry that high, even a cig or a magnum is a match.
The brits especially state that apache had their asses handed to them against the european competition and back in the day and wasn´t a threat in the toughest of them all, ctc race.


There´s a lot of other interesting stuff among those the audience knows nothing about and especially the brits and italians are renown for building only raceboats and caring less about selling on monday as those behind the builds are load€d with ca£h in other busin€$$€$ and keep a very low profil£ of it.

im preaty sure that apache was less concerned than the others in making a profit, mainly when you consider the source of the money used and the nature of the companies owner. Also, ferrari in the times of enzo was only interested in racing . Porsche and lotus though remarkable where just a little more into it for the money generated by the sales.

ben himself told me that the european competition was heavy diesel powered boats that ran past yellow warpath..the warpath was so lite they had a hard time keeping it in the water...old money vs new money..cya..

[Sean Stinson]

Sean's been lost......


Sean, you must have some input for the 3 vs 5 thread......

I will go check it out bro!!!!

[Thunderman]

ben himself told me that the european competition was heavy diesel powered boats that ran past yellow warpath..the warpath was so lite they had a hard time keeping it in the water...old money vs new money..cya..

Some people on this thread would never admit that a heavier boat could be faster in rough seas but I think, common sense would tell you that there are some advantages to a heavier boat.

[Sean Stinson]

Thanks Daredevil. Happy to see you back. You are always so eloquent and infomative. Now do you or anybody else know which 41,s were made out of what? p.s. Im gonna answer for you. no!!!!

Hold up there trigger.....every 41 ever built was built of Kevlar....some just happened to have carbon fiber in their lay-up as well!!!!!

[Thunderman]

Hold up there trigger.....every 41 ever built was built of Kevlar....some just happened to have carbon fiber in their lay-up as well!!!!!

Thanks, Tex! Sean how much $ was a 41 when new, ready to race back in 85-87?

[Sean Stinson]

I remember that the pleasure versions were retailing around 200k - 300k and they went up from there depending on options this was in 88 era!!!!!

I used to have the brochures but Thad Allens Apache never returned them before they went belly up!!!!!

[LEOPAJM]

Some people on this thread would never admit that a heavier boat could be faster in rough seas but I think, common sense would tell you that there are some advantages to a heavier boat.

AMEN !!! No question about it !!!!

[ChiefApache]

Some people on this thread would never admit that a heavier boat could be faster in rough seas but I think, common sense would tell you that there are some advantages to a heavier boat.

Agreed and we've experienced it oursevles.

[Geronimo36]

Agreed and we've experienced it oursevles.

Agreed, it's the whole reason I got one!! And after riding in my Panther for years my wife feels the same way!

[Nykamp]

In 1989 a full race 41 was $400,000.00.

[xlr8by]

In 1989 a full race 41 was $400,000.00.

What kind of power and drives was that back in 89?

[Nykamp]

#6's full stagger with C&G 800's, and the big C 600 dual ram tabs. I don't know if that was with or without the Myco.

[xlr8by]

#6's full stagger with C&G 800's, and the big C 600 dual ram tabs. I don't know if that was with or without the Myco.

Very interesting thanks for posting! Any ideas what a Top Gun was going for in the late 80's to compare to the price of a pleasure 41'?

[warpath]

ben himself told me that the european competition was heavy diesel powered boats that ran past yellow warpath..the warpath was so lite they had a hard time keeping it in the water...old money vs new money..cya..

Both Warpath's are believed to be among the heaviest of 41 race Apaches, I guess sometimes not heavy enough.

[Team Tsunami]

Very interesting thanks for posting! Any ideas what a Top Gun was going for in the late 80's to compare to the price of a pleasure 41'?

I have the price sheets for most Cig's in the mid 80's. In 1987 a Top Gun with Hawks 572's and #3's with external Steering, Headers, and Kevlar lay-up was 259K. The kevlar lay-up was a 15,000 option!

[DAREDEVIL]

Hold up there trigger.....every 41 ever built was built of Kevlar....some just happened to have carbon fiber in their lay-up as well!!!!!

Sean, SORRY...but why do they dust white and not yellow when u grind them ?????

I think, its that they are glass....and some have kevlar in them ???????

[MikeyFIN]

Im preaty sure that apache was less concerned than the others in making a profit, mainly when you consider the source of the money used and the nature of the companies owner. Also, Ferrari in the times of Enzo was only interested in racing . Porsche and Lotus though remarkable where just a little more into it for the money generated by the sales.

Offtopic.

In the Times...really when Colin Chapman was in charge for Lotus and Ferdinand Porsche both companies was in fact more devoted to Racing and extreme in their OWN designs than Ferrari who in the beginning relied on old Alfa Romeos...and lets not go in there... I know the Ferrari and Alfa History more than well.
Today... well all have gone south and Ferrari more than anyone with even selling jogging shoes so I´m glad Apache actually has the story it had and didn´t get watered down like the others.

[MikeyFIN]

Some people on this thread would never admit that a heavier boat could be faster in rough seas but I think, common sense would tell you that there are some advantages to a heavier boat.

Heavier and most of all Bigger....plus the diesels at the time was Cats... Big Cats.
Buzzis IVECO series springs to mind and some other tin cats I´ve witnessed personally in the med (50ft 4 engine Cougar ,see below ) so seems Don Aronow was right on the money.
He liked heavier boats in the rough and personally I can attest he was right.

Apaches was at the time 41´s, so was CUV´s, but Cougars..46->. La Gran Argentina 55, CESA 1882 53 and so on...
The writing was/is on the wall, not even a Apache 47 will cut it in Cowes for example.

http://fbdesign.it/historic%20boats.php
http://www.islandpulse.co.uk/b2/cowes-torquay-cowes/

Plus Europeans have always liked cutting edge technology, surface drives multiple trannies, high rpm diesels, aero and hydrodynamic aids and other crazy stuff....
because they have had the money to play with and had bigtime racing connections.

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Pow...s_2449214.aspx

So yes the thread is fitting... A Warpath...as that´s just what it was for the native.

Good and proud heritage in it´s own.

[MikeyFIN]

Sean, SORRY...but why do they dust white and not yellow when u grind them ?????

I think, its that they are glass....and some have kevlar in them ???????

When you sand composite you mostly sand the bonding material which is white even if its glass or epoxy, with carbon it goes light gray at most.

Don´t ask how I know.