Shooting Justified

[Bobcat]

Teen Won't Face Charges in WaveRunner Thief Shooting: Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office
Miami Shores teen cleared of wrongdoing in 2011 shooting under Stand Your Ground
By Keith Jones




The Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office says a teen who shot a 20-year-old man in May 2011 as the man was trying to steal a WaveRunner won't face charges. Reynaldo Munoz was killed in the shooting. Jeffrey Weiner, attorney for the David family, comments.
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The Miami Dade State's Attorney office said a 14-year-old who shot and killed a man who was trying to steal a WaveRunner in May of 2011 was justified.

The teen was cleared of any wrong doing in the shooting of 20-year-old Reynaldo Munoz, according to the written conclusion released Tuesday.

Munoz and his girlfriend, Carolina Lopez, planned to steal the Davis' WaveRunner and sell it for $2,000. The Davis family lives on the bay in Miami Shores where their watercraft was docked.

The Davis family's attorney, Jeffrey Weiner, said it's a shame someone had to lose a life.

"Just a terrible, terrible thing and the tragedy is going to live on for the lives of many, many people," Weiner said.

Yasmine Davis and her teen son confronted Munoz as he was trying to motor off. Munoz couldn't hear the demands to leave, because he was deaf and mute.

Weiner said Munoz circled back toward the shore line.

"Mrs. Davis pleaded with him 'please leave, please leave, I've called the police, the police are on the way,'" Weiner said. "He did not react but was intent on continuing his criminal activity and ultimately reaching for what she thought was a gun. The shooting was justified and the state is correct in saying it, the police were correct in saying it, the homicide detectives were correct in saying it."

The State Attorney's Office said the fatal shooting falls in the parameters of the state's Stand Your Ground Law. After two years of investigating, the State's Attorney reached its conclusion.

"It can be found that the ‘appearance’ of danger was so real that a reasonably prudent and cautious person would have believed the danger could only have been avoided through the use of deadly force," the written conclusion said.

Lopez was charged with second-degree murder in Munoz's death but it was later dropped to third-degree grand theft. She agreed to a plea deal with prosecutors last year.

It appears the court battle isn't over, at least not in civil court. The Munoz family has filed suit against the Davis' for wrongful death, a suit Weiner believes will be dismissed based on fact and the law.

"When the Stand Your Ground law was put into effect, the state legislature said, if the shooting is justifiable, there shouldn't be a civil lawsuit," he said.

[NWC]

The Munoz family has filed suit against the Davis' for wrongful death, a suit Weiner believes will be dismissed based on fact and the law.

"When the Stand Your Ground law was put into effect, the state legislature said, if the shooting is justifiable, there shouldn't be a civil lawsuit," he said.

Don't you love this mentality. Get injured or killed trying to take someone's stuff they or their family will sue to still try to take that persons stuff. If you are injured or killed committing a crime, the right to even threaten a lawsuit should be eliminated.

[old377guy]

[fund razor]

I hate theft. I really do. Whenever it happens to me (not often, because I take every precaution) I just want to KILL them.
I am so mad when it happens.

But that ain't self-defense, and running outside with a firearm to chase a person fleeing is not "stand your ground."

Now, maybe in some kind of karma way, the 20 year old thief had it coming to him. But where I come from, that is a bad shoot.
I still wouldn't award the family of the thief any money. But if I had been the shooter, I would have a hard time reconciling earning my killer badge over an insured toy that I did not secure.

[rschap1]

Tough call.
They are saying that the thief APPEARED to have a gun.
Seems like the law would be clearer and it would not take 2 years to reach a decision.
I can only imagine having that hanging over your head for 2 years besides knowing that you took a life.
Sad no matter how you slice it.
But the vicious circle also started when the attempt to steal the pwc was made...

[clayinaustin]

I hate thieves, but... After the family spends tens of thousands of dollars on lawyer fees, it would have been much cheaper and much less hassle if they just let the thief go and filed an insurance claim.

Never, Ever shoot anyone. It will cost you a lot of money and months (if not years) of legal troubles! :-(

When George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, one man was dead and the other's life was ruined. His lawyers have spent over $300,000! And they want another $100,000 for the trial!

Put the gun down!

[Bobcat]

Most of the Zimmerman was, and is being donated by the good people of the USA (and maybe some firearms companies) At one point he was actually money ahead.

[old377guy]

I stand ready to use lethal force to defend my home and all who reside in it. Sign out front says "Warning: Residents are armed - DO NOT ENTER or ATTEMPT TO ENTER" in both English and Spanish. Our phones are on the night tables. My gun is within arms reach of my bed and the gun is not loaded but ammo is safely at the ready. We have discussed protocol and have identified our defensible zone. My wife and I will do three things nearly simultaneously when and if an intruder enters my residence. 1.) call 911 2.) make it known - loudly and repeatedly that we are armed and the police are on the way. 3.) shoot to kill if the intruder does not immediately flee. I am more willing to endure the grief of taking some misguided soul's life that chooses to violate my home than endure the grief that ensues from his taking my wife's life or my innocent children's lives. Having said that, I'm not prepared to use lethal force to stop someone who is fleeing from my property with or without some of my personal possessions.

[poncho]

Hope the family doesn't win the lawsuit! When I was living at our cottage in the states came home to find a pick up in the orchard. Phoned the police and turned out it was a stolen truck abandoned. Had 3 Rottweiler's at the time and the two sheriffs deputies said to shoot anybody that tries to break in your house because they are nuts to keep trying with those dogs inside. I said wouldn't I get in trouble and they explained WA has stand your ground, but just to be extra safe drag the body inside!

[fund razor]

I am more willing to endure the grief of taking some misguided soul's life that chooses to violate my home than endure the grief that ensues from his taking my wife's life or my innocent children's lives. Having said that, I'm not prepared to use lethal force to stop someone who is fleeing from my property with or without some of my personal possessions.

I think that is where I am at on this.

[fund razor]

Most of the Zimmerman was, and is being donated by the good people of the USA (and maybe some firearms companies) At one point he was actually money ahead.

There were about $20,000 ahead, but they bought donuts with it.

[clayinaustin]

I stand ready to use lethal force to defend my home and all who reside in it. Sign out front says "Warning: Residents are armed - DO NOT ENTER or ATTEMPT TO ENTER" in both English and Spanish. Our phones are on the night tables. My gun is within arms reach of my bed and the gun is not loaded but ammo is safely at the ready. We have discussed protocol and have identified our defensible zone. My wife and I will do three things nearly simultaneously when and if an intruder enters my residence. 1.) call 911 2.) make it known - loudly and repeatedly that we are armed and the police are on the way. 3.) shoot to kill if the intruder does not immediately flee. I am more willing to endure the grief of taking some misguided soul's life that chooses to violate my home than endure the grief that ensues from his taking my wife's life or my innocent children's lives. Having said that, I'm not prepared to use lethal force to stop someone who is fleeing from my property with or without some of my personal possessions.

Goof grief! What part of Hell do you live in? Why are you so worried about a home invasion? I think it's time to move!

[fund razor]

The people who practice fire safety drills with their kids aren't living near an open flame.

They just understand that preparedness is easy, yet yields a tremendous impact on the outcome.

Most never have a fire.

[old377guy]

Goof grief! What part of Hell do you live in? Why are you so worried about a home invasion? I think it's time to move!

I live in a very pleasant area in the Willamette Valley just south of Portland. One of my many (plagiarized) mottos is " An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" If someone reads the signs and thinks twice before they try to break in - job accomplished. Frankly, I'm not particularly worried about home invasions. Interestingly, my wife and I are generally known as very hospitable people, continually hosting gatherings for friends, family and community. And BTW, I'm rather libertarian in my outlook - I'm all for folks enjoying life in whatever manner suits them. I draw a firm clear line in front anyone however than means us harm.

[clayinaustin]

Glad to hear that. My political views are also Libertarian.

While I fully support the right to bear arms, I don't own a gun and don't want to own a gun. I am much more afraid of the Criminal Justice machine than I am of any criminal. The people in the original post owned a gun and it cost them time and money.

Let the POS thief steal your used stuff. It's much cheaper and must less hassle in the long run!

[old377guy]

I actually agree with everything you said Clay. I too, am more concerned with "the system" than criminals in general. I've felt very little inclination toward revenge or retribution for those who have pilfered from me over the years, let alone shoot or kill them - karmic law is sufficient. As I noted on my previous post though, I differentiate between inanimate objects and human life. Please also understand that if someone breaks into my home, I have no way of discerning their intentions. That is why I will loudly and repeatedly announce my intentions and try to discourage them from staying.

[fund razor]

Glad to hear that. My political views are also Libertarian.

While I fully support the right to bear arms, I don't own a gun and don't want to own a gun. I am much more afraid of the Criminal Justice machine than I am of any criminal. The people in the original post owned a gun and it cost them time and money.
Let the POS thief steal your used stuff. It's much cheaper and must less hassle in the long run!

I disagree that an inanimate object, a gun cost them time and money. I believe the decision, made by a living person (a bad decision, IMO) was what cost them the time and money.

But I still agree that the prudent reaction in this particular case would have been to stand down.

[fund razor]

I totally respect people who have thought about it, and a gun is not for them. I personally prefer having the option of being armed if I feel that it is appropriate.
I also really enjoy target shooting, especially as an-off season alternative to boating. I'll admit that my range time drops off when the weather turns nice.

But I would never go running out of the house with a gun. I simply can't imagine a good reason.
Unless it is a post-apocalyptic breakdown of society, and even then... I am like... you know... these bullets are worth more for trade.
I like food. How many bullets for that can of spam?

[Tinkerer]

In a post-apocalyptic society YOU will need the bullets to ensure that YOU can keep the spam. there will be plenty of animals ( people ) that will try to take it from YOU.

[fund razor]

Ok, I promise not to trade any interesting calibers.