43 Punisher....what happened?

[fund razor]

I really like the Black Thunder offerings in the 43-46 range too. I would own one. Gladly.
In fact... should my engines outlast my hull for any reason... I'd look for an unpowered BT.

[fund razor]

As for the Punisher, the layup is better than any Apache built to date from what I know. The combination of the latest types of glass, and the "overbuild" of most of the Apache heritage boats (this one a definite yes from the guys I've chatted with who have been all through it at the factory and up here), may have made this hull the first brick chit house using only the latest types of glass and resins. As for the hull design, this is Bobby's latest, and the handling in both corners, combined with the rough water ride, made believers out of anyone who has ridden in the Saccenti Marine (Chief) hull with him (check out the thread from Michigan City a couple years ago).

We covered some "cons." That is a strong point in the "pros" column for the boat.

[old377guy]

Maybe this boat should be called a "ChiefMate" and pull some of Bobby's cachet into the line

[Offshore Ginger]

In regards to post # 40 why not in lighten all of us.......... as to what are the latest fabrics and resins that they used in there build and was the boat even vacummed bagged ,and Paul for some odd reason when it comes to this boat you always seem to be the knight in shining Armour defending it to the death !!! Paul , the bottom line is .......................it is what it is a brand new Check with brand new flaws or proplems that should have been addressed prior to even leaving the factory, and to think that a project of this size has really made a poor showing for a new model because i would think that they or any other manufacture out there putting together a project of this size and magnitude would really want to knock everybody out........ with its first overall showing or should i say WOW the masses in the industry and potential future customers . Just my 2 cents which is three cents short of a nickel .

[Offshore Ginger]

Paul as for the layup on the Punisher just curious who is telling you that it is better then any Apache built to date because in the past the layup schedule at Check has really been piss poor and now you are telling us that they are building a better boat hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gotta tell yah when it comes to selling or buying an older Apache i think the re-sale value will hold its own opposed to the Check thumbs down .

[phragle]

As for personal preference, I'm totally partial to the Black Thunder's. Since the very first time I saw Blondin's in Grand Haven until today, I don't think there is a better design/build on the market period. Others would disagree, and I understand that.

As for the Punisher, the layup is better than any Apache built to date from what I know. The combination of the latest types of glass, and the "overbuild" of most of the Apache heritage boats (this one a definite yes from the guys I've chatted with who have been all through it at the factory and up here), may have made this hull the first brick chit house using only the latest types of glass and resins. As for the hull design, this is Bobby's latest, and the handling in both corners, combined with the rough water ride, made believers out of anyone who has ridden in the Saccenti Marine (Chief) hull with him (check out the thread from Michigan City a couple years ago).

What about this one ....... Chief Factory Race Team not dogging the checkmate, but isnt it pulled from the chief mold when the man himself is finishing up a new chief??

[Ratickle]

Yes, same mold. When the Checkmate was completed, that hull was started as soon as the molds were shipped to the secret location for Bobby to oversee the build...... And that one will be the first built with the Cabon/Kevlar layup.


I cannot wait for that one to hit the water and hear the numbers. Especially with the Wizard himself dialing it in!!!!!!

[Ratickle]

Any old boat, with the depreciation already taken, would obviously hold their value versus any new boat. Especially an Apache.

[boatme]

The boat is for sale because it is the first of a possible 5 total that Checkmate has given the dealership owner exclusive sales rights on for their presale/payment of hull #1.

So is the dealer planning on exercising that right for 5 boats? Would be interested to hear his answer on this. I think it would tell alot about his feelings on what he has recived

[Ratickle]

I'm sure it will be a one at a time plan. When he sells this one, the next will be started etc. (unless there is a pre-sale).

[rschap1]

I am a little curious now too...
the speeds were higher than the original due to lighter weight
and I can even follow that line of logic
but now its way overbuilt and heavy duty
newer materials allow both of these at the same time?
new stuff is that much better??

Stuff I know nothing about, so I AM just asking, not stirring

THANKS

[Ratickle]

The differences between the new bi and tri directional glass versus the old mat and glass is incredible as far as strength goes (this is not including the new kevlar and carbon weaves). Plus the addition of the new epoxy's versus the old polyesters Some of the "potato chip" race boats built for speed, you can flex the sides. And yet they are probably still as strong as an older "brick chithouse" boat.

This particular Check used the new materials, but "over" built it. You would not believe some of the difference in thickness between an older Pantera or Apache versus a new Outerlimits or MYI. So yes, a stronger boat can be lighter depending on layup and material. The guys I've talked with at the factory, and those who have reviewed it since, say it is "Extremely Strong" and well built.

As for some of the other stuff, I have zero issue with talking about the layout, design, or obvious issues which could be improved on. I do get pretty "involved" when someone who has never seen a particular boat, driven that boat, crawled through that boat, or rode on that boat tells everyone that it is not a good piece of equipment. Especailly when the guys who have done all of those things say the opposite.

This is not some of the other forums where we exist just for the number of members we can entice by sensationalistic garbage similar to the National Enquirer. We exist to help performance boaters and enhance the sport.

Jumping down off the box now.....

[Offshore Ginger]

Great question and with that in mind i think Paul should answer that one considering we all have been left in some sort of a shaded area seeing that everything seems to be a secret .............from the location of the molds ~ once again being shiped to a secret location , etc etc or should i say why bother posting anything ..because it is a secret , and Paul could you please fill us in on the new and better layup schedule as mentioned in a previous post .

[Wreckdoctor]

Any old boat, with the depreciation already taken, would obviously hold their value versus any new boat. Especially an Apache.

On that note Paul., take into consideration the first mohican, the one and only chief , everyone's read the negative press,blah blah blah, I've had the pleasure to run it since it's been at performance boat center at loto, as you know I'm a huge apache fan, the chief crushes loto slop like no other, it handles like it's on rails, and with 950s, Brett has been playing with props, and it is knocking on triple digits for top end. The boat is basically new, has nothing but bada$$ equipment on it, and can be had for what in my opinion is a deal for what your getting, the bad press on the boat is unfortunate, in my opinion it's a great boat,
I love the ride of this hull design, is it as fast as a 42 legacy, no, but if your looking for old school cool in a new package, this hull design is in my opinion top notch, Bobby took an old idea and definitely made it better......

[Hellbent]

Well....if I have something to say, chances are I'm going to say it....lol. Political correctness has never been my thing. I think I pointed out some fairly obvious and noteworthy flaws in the design/build. I didn't know much about the boat until I read the article here at the site from back in February when the boat was being painted. It looked great but was just a hull. Admittedly, I never really cared much for Checkmate hull designs but I was pretty excited to see what they would do with this...especially after reading the article. I LOVE the Apache's and the thought of a proven, industry leading hull design combined with some modern technology was pretty darn exciting. Perhaps I expected too much because I was pretty disappointed in some aspects of the final product. I think they missed the mark that they set for the boat. While it's performance numbers may impress some, I was looking for the whole package out of their new flagship. At that price they have some pretty solid competition in the marketplace. I think they'll need to step it up if they hope to sell any of these. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.....it's just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

[Ratickle]

Great question and with that in mind i think Paul should answer that one considering we all have been left in some sort of a shaded area seeing that everything seems to be a secret .............from the location of the molds ~ once again being shiped to a secret location , etc etc or should i say why bother posting anything ..because it is a secret , and Paul with out calling your buds at Check for the proper information could you please fill us in on the new and better layup schedule as mentioned in a previous post .

That's up to them if they want to give away the new layup they used on the Punisher, not me. I'm not positive they would. They did a lot of research on it before building the boat.

[Ratickle]

Well....if I have something to say, chances are I'm going to say it....lol. Political correctness has never been my thing. I think I pointed out some fairly obvious and noteworthy flaws in the design/build. I didn't know much about the boat until I read the article here at the site from back in February when the boat was being painted. It looked great but was just a hull. Admittedly, I never really cared much for Checkmate hull designs but I was pretty excited to see what they would do with this...especially after reading the article. I LOVE the Apache's and the thought of a proven, industry leading hull design combined with some modern technology was pretty darn exciting. Perhaps I expected too much because I was pretty disappointed in some aspects of the final product. I think they missed the mark that they set for the boat. While it's performance numbers may impress some, I was looking for the whole package out of their new flagship. At that price they have some pretty solid competition in the marketplace. I think they'll need to step it up if they hope to sell any of these. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.....it's just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

The observations you have made are accurate. No problem....

[Ratickle]

I only disagree on the underpowered part....

[Hellbent]

I only disagree on the underpowered part....

I understand. Going fast isn't for everyone. lol

[Ratickle]

I understand. Going fast isn't for everyone. lol