The Gratton Twins-P1

[Bilgerat]

I don't agree with about half of what gets said.. There will always be differences in opinions but, lets refrain from name calling.

I don't agree with half of what you say most the time, but I do certainly respect you and your experience and also have friends and acquaintences who speak very highly of you. I also have not been looking at the boards much as I'm fairly busy right now, but with racing season upon us, I have to check up on the action. They are just that, a "Forum" where intelligent conversation should take place. We will see.

[Ratickle]

I keep hearing that the boats are this and that. But I go back to my original statement, the boats were raced an entire season last year, with less experienced drivers and throttlemen. Why were there zero issues with rollovers an entire season? Something had to of changed (I think). If we are worth a crap we will help to figure it out and help fix it instead of just making a bunch of statements about this and that.

So, what changed? The only thing I've heard of is the props. On a stepped hull it doesn't take much sternlift to pivot the boat hard on the front step and have it run up on the bow.

[Ratickle]

"Pushing Harder" ? what the, if your racing your pushing hardest, thats what racing is other wise it is boating.

Let me put it another way then, no matter what you drive, you do not usually go at full throttle through a 90 plus degree turn, you slow down. So pushing harder means on the edge of a spinout (or possibly worse), but pushing harder. You've never been in one, but know how they handle? 8 boats ran 21 laps Sunday and 7 boats ran 20 laps Saturday, plus the 1 P5 8 laps and the practice earlier Saturday. There were two spinouts and one roll.

Go rent one for a race and then let us know how they handle....

This site is for, as you put it, "Intelligent Conversation" and discussion. We will not let it turn into another "National Enquirer of Performance Boating" site.


Trent, you know about stepped hulls and how they ride and turn, what do you see? It looks to me that it is taking a combination of three things. They are in a corner, the boats appear to be riding on the front step when it looks as if they dig the nose due to a wake cross or something else that make them actually pivot in front of the front step.

[Wahoo 214]

For what its worth, I agree with Jason (Bilgerat) he is a great guy. Also from what I see in the videos, pictures and seeing them run in person, They run flat on the nose. The water breaks 12" in front of the first step. Perhaps they just don't have enough power to lift the bow, but whoever is responsible for the set up on them needs to figure it out. I can't remember the last time I have seen a C6 boat rollover.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I know opinions are a dime a dozen but, I wish to add my penny thoughts to the discussion. First step bottom boats run best wish a low angle of attack. I recall the early thoughts of how flat Spiderman ran. It would run with water breaking from the entire bottom. It ran flat and fast.

Second, I agree with Paul they are getting pushed harder. When you run on the edge sometimes bad things happen. I have witnessed and heard of many larger high sided Bravo boats spin, roll and get out of shape. Like many 38 Cigs and a number of Fountains with Bravo's. These outboard boats have some similar characteristics. They are high sided and run with the engines jacked and have little skeg in the water. High sides bring the CG up in the boat. I think that probably makes them fun to drive. What good would it be if they were easy anyway?

As far as Deans comment about class 6 boats not rolling. Sure a stern drive boat is much less likely because it has a 800 pound engine low in the bilge near the stern. SVLs' spin on occasion but again the low cg from the Big Block usually keeps them up right. I am sure a little weight low in the stern would help keep them right side up. Maybe it would slow them maybe not. That is all part of racing. They will figure it out.

So far they are the largest class competing. I doubt any SBI class will have more competitors. And the first two race they match OPA's largest class.

All I hear is the same old babble and finger pointing at a class with promise. Isn't it time the racers start applauding other racers for racing?

[Bilgerat]

I know opinions are a dime a dozen but, I wish to add my penny thoughts to the discussion. First step bottom boats run best wish a low angle of attack. I recall the early thoughts of how flat Spiderman ran. It would run with water breaking from the entire bottom. It ran flat and fast.

Second, I agree with Paul they are getting pushed harder. When you run on the edge sometimes bad things happen. I have witnessed and heard of many larger high sided Bravo boats spin, roll and get out of shape. Like many 38 Cigs and a number of Fountains with Bravo's. These outboard boats have some similar characteristics. They are high sided and run with the engines jacked and have little skeg in the water. High sides bring the CG up in the boat. I think that probably makes them fun to drive. What good would it be if they were easy anyway?

As far as Deans comment about class 6 boats not rolling. Sure a stern drive boat is much less likely because it has a 800 pound engine low in the bilge near the stern. SVLs' spin on occasion but again the low cg from the Big Block usually keeps them up right. I am sure a little weight low in the stern would help keep them right side up. Maybe it would slow them maybe not. That is all part of racing. They will figure it out.

So far they are the largest class competing. I doubt any SBI class will have more competitors. And the first two race they match OPA's largest class.

All I hear is the same old babble and finger pointing at a class with promise. Isn't it time the racers start applauding other racers for racing?

again I semi agree with you, Its not finger pointing at a class with promise either, I just don't like to see people hurt. And you can't compare a class with boats all designed the same , some owned ( i assume ) some leased ( i assume ) and some seats given away to have people in the boats making a show. This does not constitute a "large" boat turnout. And that doesnt mean that maybe it is not the show that people want to see. I know everyone loves a good nascar bang and rub and slide. Angle of attack, how much linear length appears to be in the water, step height and placement all have to do with a boats handling ( i assume ) I also don't think you are goinig to find huge dividends in propeller selection on a boat like this running with the nose in the water, and little power. Every thing is dangerous as well, guess everyone knows that when they put the helmet on.

[Bilgerat]

Let me put it another way then, no matter what you drive, you do not usually go at full throttle through a 90 plus degree turn, you slow down. So pushing harder means on the edge of a spinout (or possibly worse), but pushing harder. You've never been in one, but know how they handle? 8 boats ran 21 laps Sunday and 7 boats ran 20 laps Saturday, plus the 1 P5 8 laps and the practice earlier Saturday. There were two spinouts and one roll. .

Thats a lot for one weekend ( in my opinion ) plus they have a history of doing it more than just this weekend, it wasn't a simple prop change that does it. plenty of folks go full throttle through a 90 degree turn., depending on boat, class speed etc.they are usually the winners.

Go rent one for a race and then let us know how they handle.... .

Trust me I have received all the sweet talk and incentive packages to get it one, Gonna pass, I am not in the financial leagues that some others are, and won't invest my money into something like that. I have dreams of getting one of my own projects in the water and will get back on the scene as soon as I can. Also the only thing that would get me involved with the OSS would be from advice or opinion of Jim Simmons whom I hold in High Regard.

This site is for, as you put it, "Intelligent Conversation" and discussion. We will not let it turn into another "National Enquirer of Performance Boating" site.

Trent, you know about stepped hulls and how they ride and turn, what do you see? It looks to me that it is taking a combination of three things. They are in a corner, the boats appear to be riding on the front step when it looks as if they dig the nose due to a wake cross or something else that make them actually pivot in front of the front step.

Lots of boats spin, and agreed here was a combination that got one to go over, I just speak on the constant nature of this w this hull.
Today is my one day off

[Ratickle]

Some of the stuff is kinda funny. I don't recall which boats, but I can remember a boat spinning out in the straight in Orange Beach a few years back and another spinning out in the straight at Biloxi a few years back.

I wonder if there is a shorty available for these Evinrudes to lower the center of gravity? Or maybe just throw a couple hundred lbs in the keel by the bilge pump?

[Ratickle]

Lots of boats spin, and agreed here was a combination that got one to go over, I just speak on the constant nature of this w this hull.
Today is my one day off

I just cannot buy the constant nature of this hull argument. As I said, not one boat went over last year, not a single one......

[XtremeRacing]

It is not a matter of pointing fingers, it is concern for my fello racers. I dont know what is different Paul but before they race again and put someone else in danger they need to fix it. That is the only thing I think everyone is trying to say. Will we be having this same BS conversation after the next race if someone gets hurt or worst.

[F1-00 Racing]

Trent, you know about stepped hulls and how they ride and turn, what do you see? It looks to me that it is taking a combination of three things. They are in a corner, the boats appear to be riding on the front step when it looks as if they dig the nose due to a wake cross or something else that make them actually pivot in front of the front step.

Paul,
A lot of things can be seen from the videos and eye witness' accounts, most of them common sense and a lot of possible remedies have been touched in prior posts on this thread. I respectfully must decline any further comment and/or opinion with the family attorney making statements and getting involved as I am very interested in self preservation and don't wish to get involved.

[Ratickle]

It is not a matter of pointing fingers, it is concern for my fello racers. I dont know what is different Paul but before they race again and put someone else in danger they need to fix it. That is the only thing I think everyone is trying to say. Will we be having this same BS conversation after the next race if someone gets hurt or worst.

Exactly right Frank. The boats all seem to be a couple miles an hour faster this year than last. Maybe a change that made that possible is also causing the roll situation? Or, maybe it's just that the more experienced guys are pushing harder this year. Every one seems to be in a wake cross situation in a corner.

[Ratickle]

Paul,
A lot of things can be seen from the videos and eye witness' accounts, most of them common sense and a lot of possible remedies have been touched in prior posts on this thread. I respectfully must decline any further comment and/or opinion with the family attorney making statements and getting involved as I am very interested in self preservation and don't wish to get involved.

Thanks Trent.

[Ratickle]

Quite the shot Pete got...

[Ratickle]

Practice Saturday

[Ratickle]

Some of the racing Saturday..

[Ratickle]

Not the way to enter the wet pits.....

[Ratickle]

Righting the boat at the dock with the crane and divers assistance.....Louie the rigger was a bunch of help doing this.....


Kinda like he knew what he was doing.....

[Ratickle]

Pumping the boat out and gettin it loaded....

[Buoy]

Has anyone ridden in both one of these boats, and a One Design Batboat? I had always heard that the One Design was a pretty "forgiving" hull. It seems like the racing platform is pretty similar to the One Design of a few years ago.
I don't mean to stir anything up here, just asking.