Thoughts on this boat

[10x]

As long as speed is secondary on your list, I'd go for the PQ. It'll probably give you the ride you and the wife are lookin for in the rough water. (If you're plannin on runnin lake Michigan) The kids would probably be more comfortable in it too. Just my $.02

[specialk]

The 38 Powerquest is an awesome boat but you should try to stick with 01 and up. 97 and older were straight hulls. Good, but slower than the stepped hull that started in 98ish. The first step hull models had some problems with the strakes in the hull. They were modifying them some how to fix the problem. 30 foot baja is a cool boat but your 25 AT probably rides about the same or better in lake michigan. Be careful buying a project boat. It will eat up cash super fast. I was super impressed with the ride of 36 outlaw that Dennis has. If you have the truck to pull it and a place to keep it, the 36 would be the way to go, bang for the buck. I'm sure Dennis would entertain a trade for his...LOL

[ICDEDPPL]

Thank you for all the replies..

Heres another one the Boat Whisperer says is a great set up.. looks like it was owned by bobbarker from OSO. Last he posted was '06 then got repoed. I like the power/drive combo.


http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o37798-en.html

I`m liking the 35-36 outlaw more and more...

[MILD THUNDER]

You guys think the 38 PQ would ride like the .38 Special thou?
It is a serious drive train thats for sure no more broken drives
I like speed but its secondary to me now, with two small kids its just not a priority . I think 70mph would be fine with me.
Ride quality (wave crushing) and room are on top of my list.
My AT can go fast but not in any kind of bigger water so whats the point.

Joe did the performance brokerage place that has that Formula ever get back to you after your awesome email?

Yea, he said its ready to go. Some small marina in springfield bought it, and cant sell it. I guess they deal mostly in small boats. Basically, he said the guy wants it gone. He said it is "perfect, no dissapointments.

[10x]

Thank you for all the replies..

Heres another one the Boat Whisperer says is a great set up.. looks like it was owned by bobbarker from OSO. Last he posted was '06 then got repoed. I like the power/drive combo.


http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o37798-en.html

I`m liking the 35-36 outlaw more and more...

Nice Formula !!! Great price for the money. Those boats have a great ride.

[Magic Medicine]

I think u should add Donzi zx to ur list. Floating condos

[MILD THUNDER]

That 357 Formula, is probably one of the best equipped older 357's out there, power wise. And it looks like a really clean boat. Price is not bad considering it has 572's, stellings exhaust, and ssm drives.

Ride wise, i would think its comparable to a 36 outlaw. 24 degree straight heavy V bottom. If I remember right, it ran right around 80mph. The 38 PQ, will have more headroom in the cabin, and probably a little deeper cockpit, due to the raised deck design. Both boats are close in overall length. That 357 became the 382 model in formulas lineup, once they started including the swim platform in the LOA. But, if you can get that Formula for almost 1/2 the price, it sounds like it might be the way to go. It was a freshwater boat from ohio.

Top speed might not be a main concern, but cruising speed is nice. My big old Formula did 70mph. But, to keep up with the crew cruising along, i was really burning some fuel to keep it at 60mph. With the right props, that 357 Formula should cruise all day long at 60mph without breaking a sweat on those 572's.

Billy Anker in hammond has a 357 Formula with 500 mercs. Believe his boat runs right around 70mph with 470HP a side. Him and his wife love the boat.

[ICDEDPPL]

The Formula has all the right parts, not sure what it weights but hoping a V10 Excursion should be able to handle it.
Mild, it has way more room cockpit room in there than the Bullet right?
Those ssm drives are just so sweet, damn!

...I also have this guy trying to sell his 2004 28' twin Pantera. (very cool boat)
telling me I don`t need to go bigger that he runs with his buddies 36+ boats all the time up in Erie
I say it may be able to handle it but youre gonna be beat up after.

[redhotsommer]

Another issue with a 28 Pantera w/twin bbcs...NO room in the engine compartment. The Formula will have a deeper cockpit than the PQ...and the PQ will have a deeper cockpit than the Donzi ZX...the rear bench on that thing is about like the one on my 29 PQ...WAY shallow.

All should run around 70 with decent power...I think the Formula would be heavier and probably give you the best ride.

[redhotsommer]

Couple pics of Billy and Janet's 357 "Double Trouble."

Yeah...that's them in the background of the second pic!

[Magic Medicine]

28 pantera has NO freeboard. I like the donzi zx. Mike sure not not referring to a zr. Zx's have a lot of freeboard

[Magic Medicine]

Not to bash but I have been in a newer 38' formula. The boat ran 72 fire walled with 500efis and rough water handling wasn't super impressive

[Exhilaration]

Billy's away fun to run with!

[redhotsommer]

Nope Andy...I do mean ZX. As in Steve and KathyJo's. I've been in that boat in 6 footers...IN that rear bench...and it was more than a bit frightening. Jimmy was sitting next to me in the center...he actually launched off the seat when we hit a big one...somebody had to grab him to keep him in the boat. Not much freeboard at all.

[MILD THUNDER]

That 357 he is looking at has 572CI mills making 650 or so per side. I believe bob, the guy who used to own it, saw 80 out of it a few times. Figure my 402, which was 4ft longer, and much heavier, and wider beam, hit 72 a couple times in with some chop with 600HP per side.

I agree, the pantera 28 is a good rough water boat for a 28FT boat. But no freeboard, small cockpit, is definitly not what you want. I rode in my buddies 28, standing behind the driver bolster, and the hull sides were below my waist, actually probably around 1/2 way from my waist to my knee. It was calm water, and i didnt like the feeling at 75mph, so i sat my ass down in the back seat. Realistically, it aint much bigger than what you have now. I would cross that off the list. Anyone who claims they can keep up with 36+ft boats in rough water in a 28 pantera, is blowing smoke. sure, maybe they can keep up, but they are getting their asses kicked in, and everyone on board will be holding on for dear life in any real rough water. You aint sippin cocktails in a 28 at 70mph in 2-3ft'ers. I drove one, and rode on one. They are great boats, but bottom line, if you want a comfortable wave crushing smooth riding boat for lake michigan, you'll want something like the formula 357, 36 outlaw, 35-38 cig, etc.

Mike Lucina also has a 38 Formula, but its a straight bottom hull. Pretty much a re-labeled 357 SR-1. Stock 502 Mag 415HP with prochargers. Probably around 600HP per side. he was getting like 77-78mph last season testing props.

Newer 38 Formula with 470HP motors, 72mph sounds about right to me. Probably close to what a 38ZX Donzi, sonic 386, or 38 powerquest, 36 outlaw would run with those motors. 470HP a side in a 38ft heavy boat isnt really big power. My boat would probably barely break 70 with those motors with no fuel and a tailwind.

[MILD THUNDER]

Billy's away fun to run with!

And fun to drink with!

[ICDEDPPL]

Ok forget the Pantera.

old owner of that 357 in '06:

I'll sell mine for blue book price. 1989 f357-sr1, tall deck 572,s ,speedmaster 3 drives,newly rebuilt bw trans., $79,995.00
no trailer.

in 2004:

Hey Blake,

There big tube stellings with gaffrig cut-out mufflers.
Their not cheap the stellings are approx. $7500 per
engine, the gaffrigs about $1500 a pair. Their hooked
up to a pair of 572cubic in. tall deck chevys with merlin
steel head, 1050 dom. racing carbs , msd ign. lath.
hyd. steering, speedmaster #3 drives with cleaver
props. On a good day she'll run in the low 80s. in 3ft. waves. Its usually rough on lake erie but thats what
formulas are made for. I have approx 90 hrs. on the
motors an have had no problems. Engine builders
said to run 20w50 severe use racing oil , change every
25 hrs. so thats what I do, seems to work. I love the
boat , motors & exhaust. sorry to be so long winded.

On older boats like my 357 in time you will get a lot of front deck flexing at high speeds. I needed a new rub rail, so I went to my fiberglass man . He removed the old rub rail filled the old holes with epoxy, tighten all the screws that hold the deck to the hull, drilled all new holes for the new rub rail an installed new rail, what a difference,no more flexing or shaking at high speeds , boat feels a lot more solid well thats my 2 cents worth .

heres mine,
F357sr1 formula 572's 650hp stellings,speedmasters 83mph gps so far

Thats a lota h.p. for only $18,000. I'am runnin a pr. 0f 572's
merlin heads, lunati rotating assemble, gold roller rocker's
1050 holly raciing carb, stelling exhaust, in a 357 formula
BAD-ASS it will run approx. 85-90 on a good day, but a
have a hellva lot more money than $18,000 in ea. motor.
It might be a buy but how long will they last. I think you
will be taking a big gamble, but thats only my opion.

from 2004:

Hey stecz,
I have the 572's tall deck chevys with merlin heads, 1050 dominator racing carbs.
msd. 5600 rev.limiters , stellings exhaust, speedmasters 1.5-1 duel tie bars , liquid harmonic rotating assy. balancers, velvet touch 9 clutch trans. [6 forward 3 reverse ]
just had rebuilt, gaffrig gauges , gaffrig gps speedo with recall, graffrig throttles & shifters. Boat has been rack stored since new

hey cuda,
I'd be guessing but I'll say between 650-700hp. They never been dynoed. I'am running the huge
liquid harmonic balancers so the motors run smooth,
can't really tell their running big cams. they do gulp
fuel but what the hell we all need some vice.

Seems like he did everything right and took care of the boat as far as 2006.
This is a heavy boat I should expect a big fuel bill thou huh?

[10x]

It's the "X" factor. It takes X amount of fuel to make "X" amount of HP. The more HP, the more fuel that's required to make it.

It takes "X" amount of HP to push a boat that weighs "X" amount to a speed of "X" speed. The slower you go the less fuel you use and need to make less HP. Simple math, 650 hp should use 55-56 gals of fuel @ WOT per hour, per engine.

[ICDEDPPL]

So almost $6 a minute

Takes about 15min from East Chicago to Boaters beach so thats $90 one way..OMG I gotta stop doing the math lol!!

Man I`m gonna have to raise my hourly charges

[paulb32]

I'll put another vote in for the 36 outlaw. I've had mine a year and love it. We've met at the beach a few times, mine's the 98 with all purple graphics, 525's. My 8 yr old Allie loves going fast in the chop. And the dog Harley lays in the back seat. Rides great, 2 families comfortable with kids. Mine's loaded minus the 2nd set of bolsters that I was looking for.
I have a friend with a 99 and 4 bolsters, 3 kids. The kids (all under 8 too) absolutely love the bolters b/c they feel comfortable even the the ruff on the lake.
Plenty "average" ones out there, but hard to find with amenities though. Some with vacuflush, fewer with more. Then add low hours, good condition, good colors, priced right, etc. I looked for 11/2 yrs for the right one.
The guys are right about the 38 sp being "bus like", and the 38pq not better unless the stepped with power. And the older Formula's are great ones to consider. You might consider a 33 outlaw -same big cockpit, ride well, fast enough, some have ameneties, few have 4 bolsters, and you sure could find one in your budget, plenty out there.