View Poll Results: Is this list accurate? I don't think so

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  • It is dead on correct

    2 2.56%
  • It is absolutley incorrect

    10 12.82%
  • Some of the people belong but it's not complete

    49 62.82%
  • Stecz is a putz

    17 21.79%
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    #61
    Registered DollaBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airpacker View Post
    Bill, you really need to pull your head out of the sand. Performance boating is neither an exclusive "east of the Mississippi river" thing nor does it center around "offshore" boats. Not by a long shot.

    There are hundreds of little outboard and inboard go fast ( lake ) boats for every single "offshore" boat in north America. Always have been, always will be.

    Apparently you think if a boat is not an "offshore" boat, its not a performance boat.

    I bet thousands of drag boat owners and racers, inboard, jet and outboard alike would disagree with you.

    Same goes for circle boats, Formula one boats, jet boats both sprint and white water.

    What about the cracker box and hydro racers? Are they not "performance boats" too ?

    Then of course, there is that little place NOT in Florida known as Europe, and the middle east and Austrailia. All home to lots of performance boats NOT made on the east coast of the USA.

    Remember where Reggies pad bottom came from. He stole it form a guy building little 100mph missles called Allisons. Surely a true performance boat but not an offshore.

    Bob Leach's Eliminator and his Daytona line brought tunnel and Catamaran boats to the general performance boat crowd. 1000's of them. Copied by just about every west coast performance builder there is or was.

    Roarke Summerford, designer and builder of the famed STV line of blisteringly fast outbaord powered tunnel V boats influenced many a boat builder to follow his lead. Do you believe that a 120 mph, 700lb single outboard boat is NOT a performance boat?

    Just because a boat does not fall under the "offshore" boat banner, does not mean it is not a performance boat.
    I've done poker runs, races and boat show ALL over the country. I'm aware of the amount of "performance" boats that exist all over the rivers and lakes of America. What I don't agree with is that these qualify as influential. Yes, certain design elements have been huge advancements in performance.

    The bottom line is that the offshore category is the "superbowl" of the sport. Just as NASCAR is to the guys driving enduro cars around the small town tracks every sat night in every small town across America. Thats the top of the food chain.
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    #62
    Well Bill, I would disagree with you again. Offshore is not above Top Fuel Hydro drags or Unlimited Hydroplanes what so ever. If public support, crowds at races, television exposure and corporate dollars are the measuring stick, offshore as we know it is probably in 3rd at best and thats just the North American market.

    European Formula one tunnel racing is the King of the Hill over there. Jet boat racing is the waterborne NASCAR of Australia.

    Heck, swamp buggy racing gets more TV time than offshore ( sort of offshore anyway ) racing does in the USA.
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    #63
    Charter Member Pro1's Avatar
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    Peter Hledin the guy who has built Fountains for Fountain, the guy who has built Cigarettes for Cigarette, the guy who has had his boats copied and turned into the second brand. The guy who has built Platnuims, the guy who has brand x cat in his shop right now.
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    #64
    Charter Member Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animalhouse View Post
    Paul and Mike Fiore have bben very influential. And I agree with Haggin as well.
    Again, "influential"? I don't see it. Builds a nice boat and has for some time now but Influential to the performance boating community. To me that means benifit the "sport" as a whole. If you go down Matt's list, he explains why each has helped or influence the sport as a whole. Paul and Mike have done great benifiting themselves and building a great company but they hardly influence the performance boating market.
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    #65
    If DollaBill doesn't see the West Coast performance-boat scene as worthwhile, then Bob Leach wouldn't make his list.

    But I have to say, that's quite a dismissal of an entire performance-boat segment. For every Skater at the Desert Storm Poker Run, there are a dozen Eliminators.

    I would suggest to my friend DollaBill and anyone who "dimisses" the West Coast scene that just because something isn't to your taste or liking doesn't mean it's inconsequential.

    Airpacker, unfortunately, is correct about the impact of offshore racing. It is a part of performance boating where biggest and baddest gets displayed and put through its paces. It is not, however, the end all and be all of performance boating. There were perhaps 50 boats, and that's giving the benefit of the doubt, at the SBI Worlds in November.

    Fifty boats qualifies as a "small" poker run, something on the order of the Atlantic City run.

    Tank,the reason Stu would qualify for my list (if I bumped someone else) is that he does, in fact, lead his industry, which was part of my working definition of "influential." I do see your point.

    Pro1 ... Amen. That's why Pete was near the top of my list.

    We could make it a Top 20 list or a Top 40 list, but then we wouldn't have to make hard choices and we wouldn't be having this great discussion.
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    #66
    Charter Member Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dollabill View Post
    Tank

    I think Stu's events keep raising the bar when it comes to mfg's and owners trying to (for lack of a better word) out-do each other for the big runs.
    See I don't see it that way. I see Mfg's doing this at boat shows that FPC piggy backs on. You can take away FPC's poker runs and the mfg's will still be out-doing each other at the shows. Again, not trying to take away from Stu and Jackie. They do a great job and providing a service to powerboaters and have done excellent making a career out of making fun runs streamlined and user friendly. But not influential to the sport.

    And Bill, you really need to at least read up on Eliminator and Bob Leach. Again, he's been continuously building performance boats since the late 60's. One of the longest continuously running performance boat builders on the planet. And his boats have been used in the offshore arena since the 90's.

    I agree the east coast (specifically) So. Florida is the mecca of performance/offshore boating but you really can't dismiss the fact the west coast has been in the performance boating scene as long (actually longer).
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    #67
    One more thing in defense of the West Coast performance-boat scene: Mercury Racing thinks it's pretty darn important.

    But don't ask me. Give the guy at the top of my list a call.

    Tank ... poker runs feed boat sales, boat sales feed poker runs, and Stu leads that segment. The relationship between boat builders and poker runs is symbiotic.
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    #68
    Charter Member Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Trulio View Post

    Tank,the reason Stu would qualify for my list (if I bumped someone else) is that he does, in fact, lead his industry, which was part of my working definition of "influential." I do see your point.
    I hear what you're saying. I guess I just view leader in your field and influential as two different things.
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    #69
    Registered DollaBill's Avatar
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    I think the poker run events just fuel the desire to buy and the shows are where a significant portion of those sales are "born". Whether the deals are inked at the show or completed at a later time. The shows make it possible for buyers to go to one place to get a deal done.
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    #70
    Point taken, Tank. And much as I respect and genuinely like Stu, and much as I think he's worthy, my list stands.

    Looking at the poll: One person (me) thinks I'm brilliant. Six people think I fell on my head as a child. The rest think my list has some of the people who belong, "but is not complete."

    As as writer dealing with a highly subjective topic, I'll take that any day of the week.
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    #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Trulio View Post

    Airpacker, unfortunately, is correct about the impact of offshore racing. It is a part of performance boating where biggest and baddest gets displayed and put through its paces. It is not, however, the end all and be all of performance boating. There were perhaps 50 boats, and that's giving the benefit of the doubt, at the SBI Worlds in November.

    Fifty boats qualifies as a "small" poker run, something on the order of the Atlantic City run.

    Tank,the reason Stu would qualify for my list (if I bumped someone else) is that he does, in fact, lead his industry, which was part of my working definition of "influential." I do see your point.
    At first I didn't understand why Carbonell would make this list. Now with this statement, I really don't understan how he got on there.

    Stu Jones should be on there for sure. If you have to ask why, then you are not that into High Performance.

    I may not have thought of him, but Jim Herrring gets my vote. What is more important than props on a high performance boat. Herring is the gold standard that all others are compared to.

    Reguardless of how his company is doing financially, or whether you like him or hate him. Reggie Fountain has been as influencial as anyone. He is still building boats and still the one that others are compared to.

    There is an obvious West Coast bias to this list. I think most will question Hemmingson. For obvious reasons.
    And how did Teague make it. Sure he test boats for PB, builds a decent motor, as many do. And has a nice shop, as many to do. But I really don't see any real infuence in the industry or anything special that others aren't doing just as well.

    Just my .02. Don't won't to offend anyone. Put considering who wrote this article, I would have expected a little less bias.

    Michael
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    #72
    Sponsor / Charter Member Rik's Avatar
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    Matt, I've come to the conclusion, after reading however many pages this is up to now, that you just need a bigger group of friends Then you could make everyone happy.
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    #73
    Charter Member Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44MTI View Post
    At first I didn't understand why Carbonell would make this list. Now with this statement, I really don't understan how he got on there.

    Stu Jones should be on there for sure. If you have to ask why, then you are not that into High Performance.

    I may not have thought of him, but Jim Herrring gets my vote. What is more important than props on a high performance boat. Herring is the gold standard that all others are compared to.

    Reguardless of how his company is doing financially, or whether you like him or hate him. Reggie Fountain has been as influencial as anyone. He is still building boats and still the one that others are compared to.

    There is an obvious West Coast bias to this list. I think most will question Hemmingson. For obvious reasons.
    And how did Teague make it. Sure he test boats for PB, builds a decent motor, as many do. And has a nice shop, as many to do. But I really don't see any real infuence in the industry or anything special that others aren't doing just as well.

    Just my .02. Don't won't to offend anyone. Put considering who wrote this article, I would have expected a little less bias.

    Michael
    I am seeing the potential for the greatest thread ever posted on SOS. It's these types of threads with thought provoking topics and the ability to draw in several varying opinions that grow average threads into "super threads" Bravo to Matt for writing this piece and bravo to Bill for bringing it to our attention.

    Now, I stand by my original opinion that Stu shouldn't be on this list for the above stated reasons. "Top ten leaders in their field list"? Yea, I'll buy that. Then we can ad the owner of Myco trailers for making the best trailer and National Liquidators for selling the most boats, etc.

    I agree with putting Hering on that list for the reasons Michael stated. Talk about someone that has benefited others in the industry and has been influential to others through prop design.

    I also agree, though I may not want to because I loath the personal practices of the man, Reggie Fountain should be on this list. And I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this industry that would argue that fact, even with what he's currently going through (how do you like that Matt!? Me sticking up for Reggie!).

    When it comes to Bob Teague, I can understand why Matt put him on this list. I can also understand why some would balk at this at first glance. Agree or disagree but again, going back to the title of the top ten list, it clearly states "influential" in the heading. What other builder, racer, poker runner and business man has had the opportunity to reach out to thousands upon thousands of readers through a tech column and help countless boaters with endless questions? I know other magazines have tech support. But no one has done it longer than Teague.

    Take away the fact his motors are in boats from coast to coast (and frequently used in Europe). Take away the fact he has continuously raced a boat of some sort longer than the majority of racers put together, take away the fact he promotes and sponsors several poker runs a year and take away the fact he's crawled through, around, under and over more boats in this industry than anyone else while giving input to builders that have actually listened and acted upon his advise...Take all this away and just the simple fact he's reached out to thousands via tech support epitomizes the meaning of "influential".
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    #74
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    Richie Powers. can't leave out one of, if not the best throttlemen ever.
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    #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Dollabill View Post
    I think the poker run events just fuel the desire to buy and the shows are where a significant portion of those sales are "born". Whether the deals are inked at the show or completed at a later time. The shows make it possible for buyers to go to one place to get a deal done.
    +1

    and PR's take the boats to destinations that the owner's may never go to without the guidance of the PR. Stu has taken 100's of boats all over the Bahamas, many wouldn't go on their own.....

    Stu's events showcase the manufacturer's products "in action." A display can look great but Stu shooting it at 100 MPH in 3 foot seas will get the pulse going better than any display!
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    #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro1 View Post
    Peter Hledin the guy who has built Fountains for Fountain, the guy who has built Cigarettes for Cigarette, the guy who has had his boats copied and turned into the second brand. The guy who has built Platnuims, the guy who has brand x cat in his shop right now.
    I agree 100 % .
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    #77
    From Matt's list....

    Fred Kiekhaefer
    Peter Hledin
    Bob Latham
    Mike D'Anniballe
    Dean Loucks

    plus...

    Fabio Buzzi
    Howard Arneson
    Michael Peters
    Jim Hering
    Reggie Fountain
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    #78
    Charter Member Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JupiterSunsation View Post
    +1

    and PR's take the boats to destinations that the owner's may never go to without the guidance of the PR. Stu has taken 100's of boats all over the Bahamas, many wouldn't go on their own.....

    Stu's events showcase the manufacturer's products "in action." A display can look great but Stu shooting it at 100 MPH in 3 foot seas will get the pulse going better than any display!
    I'll say it again....I agree. But this has nothing to do with being "INFLUENTIAL TO THE SPORT"
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    #79
    Competitor Hauling Trash's Avatar
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    I should have made the List........... Right Bill
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    #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauling Trash View Post
    I should have made the List........... Right Bill
    I can be paid to think that way buddy
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