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    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    It seems to me that the overseas guys have managed to learn some lessons, and then created another problem. No doubt, there are fewer classes in the overseas' series. That's a good thing. Unfortunately, there are too many series (UIM class 1-5/P1/XCat). So, they sort of cured a headache with an upset stomach. So far it all looks rosy, but wait and see. It's only a matter of time before these series become detrimental to each other.

    The reality is the sport has gone backwards since the UIM/APBA was displaced as the only sanctioning body. History has taught us some simple facts. If you give racers a "choice", they will no doubt opt for the path that is least helpful to the general good of the sport. If you give wealthy racers a "choice", they will choose the most dramatic, colorful, and expensive path that is least helpful to the general good of the sport.

    A major series sponsor with a competent TV package, backing a simple, understandable, cash paying, class structure (with no "exceptions, compromises, or side deals") is the only thing that will bring the racers into line. Until we solve the problem of multiple series, classes and sanctioning bodies, we cannot attract that major series sponsor.

    If my head was betting my own cash, I would set the "over/under" of the sports survival at 5 years....... and I'd take the under. On the other hand, my heart prays that the "leaders" of the sport stop patting themselves on the back, take their heads out of the sand, acknowledge their delusions of grandeur, and, without compromise, pursue a course of unification and simplification.

    One other thing in this endeavour...always remember.....it's not about you.

    T2x
    Amen !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Trulio View Post
    .

    Mike A. and the LLC had some great momentum in 1999 and 2000. Certainly, the robust economy, and the foundation work of Gene Whipp, didn't hurt. But to be fair to Mike and the rest of his crew, there was more to it than that. They did some things very, very well.

    I do, however, think it provides a less than complete picture to lay total blame at the feet of several individuals for the demise.

    Since I actually lived the history from the inside, let me point out a few things that hopefully will help those searching for perspective and answers to the current problems. In the process, I will try to "complete" the picture as well.

    1. Gene saved APBA Offshore. At the annual meeting immediately before he took over several members of the ORC had drafted a contract that would have given the offshore category to US Offshore and SBR in exchange for assuming the category debt which at the time was substantial due to gross mismanagement from Gene's predecessor and the same cast of characters who had been on the ORC for years. Several newbies called BS on the deal. They went to then APBA president Steve David who approved a plan to fire the ORC Chairman and draft Gene to take over. Gene agreed.

    He personally invested more than $100,000.00 of his own money to get good TV on a new network, Speedvision. He, Rich, and Dick C. built a good product. Gene also paid off the category's debt to APBA with his own funds. He secured Baja as a series sponsor based solely upon his clout with Brunswick as a major Sea Ray dealer. He also endorsed the Factory classes for 1997 which the ORC had approved prior to his being hired.

    When Gene assumed control there were no race sites except for Sarasota planned for 1997. Gene put a circuit together that year. Nevertheless, SBR and USO had a much bigger fleet for their KW Worlds than did APBA's Biloxi event. Remember too, the economy was at full song.

    2. By the start of the 1998 season, however, Gene was already growing tired. He was a one man show when it came to selling sponsorships, paying for TV, etc. When 12 boats showed up for the National Championships in South Padre Island, Gene was done. KW again outdrew Biloxi. The economy was still at full song.

    3. When I took over as Chairman in December of 1998 here is what the 1999 season looked like: 2 open boats, Alcone and Drambuie, and 4 guaranteed race sites. Baja wanted to pull out as the series sponsor which would have left us with Citgo as the only major and that was only because Nigel Hook had brought them to the table. And the category owed Gene nearly $100,000.00. I personally repaid Gene, and then invested another $250,000.00 of my own money to get TNN and Speed, which helped us re-up Baja.

    4. The 1999 season, however, was still in trouble. We had 32 boats at the second event in New Hampshire, after which Alcone left for SBI and then Europe. We had a couple of races with no Open Boats. TV was good but I was growing tired too and had no appetite for a 2000 season. Luckily, that mind set helped several of us (principally Miklos and George Linder) throw caution to the wind and develop Super Cat against heavy, heavy, heavy, opposition. The prospect of Super Cat caused the turn around in momentum heading into 2000. We had an excellent Worlds in St. Pete and finally outdrew KW. Remember too that the economy was heading into recession and the market had begun its dramatic decline.

    5. 2000 was huge. We formed the LLC and invested a substantial sum of money into the sport. We had 147 boats in St. Pete for the Worlds. However, that number was inflated because we still had quite a few A and B boats, which we were fazing out, and a number of Super Cats that were older boats with no long term potential.

    6. In 2001 and 2002 the economy went into the tank, and we had 911. Still, the overall fleet counts were only down 10% and that was mainly because the A and B boats were fading away. We had added new exciting sites like Savannah, and a prominent series title sponsor in GM, which the sport had not seen since HFC in the 1980's.

    7. In 2003, the APBA fleet actually grew from 2002, even though the economy was still struggling and we were fighting two wars. And we were producing 2 hours of television for each event. In other words, the momentum was strong through 2003. We had 83 boats for the St. Pete National Championships, the most for a year end event in a decade at the time. We had resolved our fight with APBA and had a plan in place for 2004 to raise money and to go on a spec engine program that would have drastically reduced everyone's costs for future racing. US Offshore was gone and SBI was wobbling with events consisting of fleets in the teens.

    8. Then the boycott happened and the LLC members decided enough was enough. We were not going to spend any more money on what had instantly become a hopeless cause.

    So, while I readily admit that the LLC, and me in particular, made all kinds of mistakes, and could have done several things differently and better, that is true with any business. Thus, I can easily lay blame for the sport's demise on the boycotters and OSS founders (Mauf, Teague, Whittier, Abrams, Chastelet, Mercury, et al.) They are truly responsible for destroying the sport, regardless of their intentions and motivation for boycotting and starting OSS, which mainly consisted of the rules and classes the LLC created. Facts do not lie. They allowed the rules to be corrupted. They lost TV. They lost sponsors and secured virtually none. They broke promises, and failed to build a business.

    The only reason anyone has ever suggested that I should accept responsibility for what happened is that somehow I did not care or listen enough to the boycotters, so they got mad, or disenchanted and then did what they did. Whatever. The fact is that no sport can succeed without a dictator - and a tough one at that. Unless and until the sport has people involved who can accept, no embrace that concept, it will NEVER be more than it is now.
    Last edited by Mike A.; 08-11-2009 at 01:32 PM.
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    Icon/Charter Member T2x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
    Since I actually lived the history from the inside, let me point out a few things that hopefully will help those searching for perspective and answers to the current problems. In the process, I will try to "complete" the picture as well.

    1. Gene saved APBA Offshore. At the annual meeting immediately before he took over several members of the ORC had drafted a contract that would have given the offshore category to US Offshore and SBR in exchange for assuming the category debt which at the time was substantial due to gross mismanagement from Gene's predecessor and the same cast of characters who had been on the ORC for years. Several newbies called BS on the deal. They went to then APBA president Steve David who approved a plan to fire the ORC Chairman and draft Gene to take over. Gene agreed.

    He personally invested more than $100,000.00 of his own money to get good TV on a new network, Speedvision. He, Rich, and Dick C. built a good product. Gene also paid off the category's debt to APBA with his own funds. He secured Baja as a series sponsor based solely upon his clout with Brunswick as a major Sea Ray dealer. He also endorsed the Factory classes for 1997 which the ORC had approved prior to his being hired.

    When Gene assumed control there were no race sites except for Sarasota planned for 1997. Gene put a circuit together that year. Nevertheless, SBR and USO had a much bigger fleet for their KW Worlds than did APBA's Biloxi event. Remember too, the economy was at full song.

    2. By the start of the 1998 season, however, Gene was already growing tired. He was a one man show when it came to selling sponsorships, paying for TV, etc. When 12 boats showed up for the National Championships in South Padre Island, Gene was done. KW again outdrew Biloxi. The economy was still at full song.

    3. When I took over as Chairman in December of 1998 here is what the 1999 season looked like: 2 open boats, Alcone and Drambuie, and 4 guaranteed race sites. Baja wanted to pull out as the series sponsor which would have left us with Citgo as the only major and that was only because Nigel Hook had brought them to the table. And the category owed Gene nearly $100,000.00. I personally repaid Gene, and then invested another $250,000.00 of my own money to get TNN and Speed, which helped us re-up Baja.

    4. The 1999 season, however, was still in trouble. We had 32 boats at the second event in New Hampshire, after which Alcone left for SBI and then Europe. We had a couple of races with no Open Boats. TV was good but I was growing tired too and had no appetite for a 2000 season. Luckily, that mind set helped several of us (principally Miklos and George Linder) throw caution to the wind and develop Super Cat against heavy, heavy, heavy, opposition. The prospect of Super Cat caused the turn around in momentum heading into 2000. We had an excellent Worlds in St. Pete and finally outdrew KW. Remember too that the economy was heading into recession and the market had begun its dramatic decline.

    5. 2000 was huge. We formed the LLC and invested a substantial sum of money into the sport. We had 147 boats in St. Pete for the Worlds. However, that number was inflated because we still had quite a few A and B boats, which we were fazing out, and a number of Super Cats that were older boats with no long term potential.

    6. In 2001 and 2002 the economy went into the tank, and we had 911. Still, the overall fleet counts were only down 10% and that was mainly because the A and B boats were fading away. We had added new exciting sites like Savannah, and a prominent series title sponsor in GM, which the sport had not seen since HFC in the 1980's.

    7. In 2003, the APBA fleet actually grew from 2002, even though the economy was still struggling and we were fighting two wars. And we were producing 2 hours of television for each event. In other words, the momentum was strong through 2003. We had 83 boats for the St. Pete National Championships, the most for a year end event in a decade at the time. We had resolved our fight with APBA and had a plan in place for 2004 to raise money and to go on a spec engine program that would have drastically reduced everyone's costs for future racing. US Offshore was gone and SBI was wobbling with events consisting of fleets in the teens.

    8. Then the boycott happened and the LLC members decided enough was enough. We were not going to spend any more money on what had instantly become a hopeless cause.

    So, while I readily admit that the LLC, and me in particular, made all kinds of mistakes, and could have done several things differently and better, that is true with any business. Thus, I can easily lay blame for the sport's demise on the boycotters and OSS founders (Mauf, Teague, Whittier, Abrams, Chastelet, Mercury, et al.) They are truly responsible for destroying the sport, regardless of their intentions and motivation for boycotting and starting OSS, which mainly consisted of the rules and classes the LLC created. Facts do not lie. They allowed the rules to be corrupted. They lost TV. They lost sponsors and secured virtually none. They broke promises, and failed to build a business.

    The only reason anyone has ever suggested that I should accept responsibility for what happened is that somehow I did not care or listen enough to the boycotters, so they got mad, or disenchanted and then did what they did. Whatever. The fact is that no sport can succeed without a dictator - and a tough one at that. Unless and until the sport has people involved who can accept, no embrace that concept, it will NEVER be more than it is now.
    The above, although only slightly shorter than Obama's health plan , is a pretty accurate depiction of what happened during Mike's involvement IMHO. Though, to be fair, that was not the entire timeline of the sport's history, nor does it cover all of the causes and effects of the sport's total dynamic which brought us to where we are now. During the entire length of the sport's history there was a bunch of squabbling going on behind the scenes. In retrospect, had we all been a bit a more mature.....and aware of the fact that nothing in life is perfect, perhaps a different and better ending would have resulted. In any event it is general divisiveness that has brought this sport to its knees repeatedly and, until we solve that issue, will continue to infect it like a dose of the clap.

    T2x
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    Registered Mike A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    The above, although only slightly shorter than Obama's health plan , is a pretty accurate depiction of what happened during Mike's involvement IMHO. Although, to be fair, That was not the entire timeline of the sport's history, nor does it cover all of the causes and effects of the sport's total dynamic which brought us to where we are now. During the entire length of the sport's history there was a bunch of squabbling going on behind the scenes. In retrospect, had we all been a bit a more mature.....and aware of the fact that nothing in life is perfect, perhaps a different and better ending would have resulted. In any event it is general divisiveness that has brought this sport to its knees repeatedly and, until we solve that issue, will continue to infect it like a dose of the clap.

    T2x
    Rich, I completely agree with everything you said. The sport cannot succeed long term with multiple sanctioning bodies. People have to stop deluding themselves into thinking otherwise. Open wheel racing is actually doing better than it has in years one year after unification. That is not a coincidence. In addition, there has to be a single commissioner with strength, vision, and authority. There also needs to be a mechanism in place that makes it nearly if not totally impossible for competitors to steal away with the sanctioning body's proprietary product and form another group. Those things have to be in place for any business plan to work. And finally, if those things are put in place then big $$$$$$$$ is required.

    Oh, and by the way, Obama has no health care plan. Congress on the other hand has drafted four different versions of over 1100 pages each.
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    I applaud Mike for his candor and for his ownership of what he feels was his responsibility in the demise of the LLC. And, as usual, I have to applaud Rich for his added perspective.

    But I will have to stay far, far away from any political discourse. It goes nowhere, and really has little no place on "Serious Offshore," at least for me (unless it's used in a humorous way, as Rich used it). Oh wait, we're talking about offshore racing. It's all political discourse.
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    And Rich ... I'll take the over. What are the stakes?
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    Founding Member / Super Moderator Ratickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Trulio View Post
    I applaud Mike for his candor and for his ownership of what he feels was his in the demise of the LLC. And, as usual, I have to applaud Rich for his added perspective.

    As I will stay far, far away from any political discourse. Oh wait, we're talking about offshore racing. It's all political discourse.
    No need to stay far far away. Keep it positive and it's a good thing. I'd hate to not have experienced input from anybody who's been there as much as you have.
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    Registered Mike A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Trulio View Post
    I applaud Mike for his candor and for his ownership of what he feels was his responsibility in the demise of the LLC. And, as usual, I have to applaud Rich for his added perspective.

    But I will have to stay far, far away from any political discourse. It goes nowhere, and really has little no place on "Serious Offshore," at least for me (unless it's used in a humorous way, as Rich used it). Oh wait, we're talking about offshore racing. It's all political discourse.
    Matt,

    IMHO we are not talking about politics here. These are the hard realities. If the brave remaining few truly want to set the sport back on the right path these realities have to be recognized and dealt with: 1. Certain people who have been constants as leaders of the sport for the past 20 + years have to be politely excluded from any future leadership positions of influence; 2. There has to be unification; 3. There has to be a dictator with strong support from a deep pocket BOD; 4. There has to be a single set of rules controlled by the dictator and his own people who are independent from the industry; 5. There has to be TV; 6. There has to be a boycott proof product model; 7. And most importantly, there has to be lots of financial capital behind the sanctioning organization. Without those...
    Last edited by Mike A.; 08-11-2009 at 03:28 PM.
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    Icon/Charter Member T2x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Trulio View Post
    And Rich ... I'll take the over. What are the stakes?
    Dinner.......at Mike's house.

    T2x
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    Ratickle,

    I only meant I'll stay away from "real" (i.e. government) politics. Thanks for the kind words. I'm flattered.
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    Hey Rich,

    If Mike is providing the food and drink, you're on. I think he'll make it worth the airfare from New Jersey.

    Confidence is essential.
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    Founding Member / Super Moderator Ratickle's Avatar
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    So far I have only a few suggestions.

    One I would like to see, because it always seemed to work well for the military, a trimverat (sp?), of three for the dictator position. All three ex-racers or race promoters. Two out of three to make a change. Takes the single person bashing out of the picture. One less thing to defend. No one ever knows who voted how.

    Just an idea.
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    Registered Mike A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Trulio View Post
    Hey Rich,

    If Mike is providing the food and drink, you're on. I think he'll make it worth the airfare from New Jersey.

    Confidence is essential.
    I will supply food and drink, however, I think a story should be written as well to expound on your recent piece, with a "what happened" and "what should happen now" theme.
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    Registered Mike A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratickle View Post
    So far I have only a few suggestions.

    One I would like to see, because it always seemed to work well for the military, a trimverat (sp?), of three for the dictator position. All three ex-racers or race promoters. Two out of three to make a change. Takes the single person bashing out of the picture. One less thing to defend. No one ever knows who voted how.

    Just an idea.
    Will not work. There must be a single decision-maker.
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    Triumvirate.....

    It should be 2 promotors and 1 racer.
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    I was Offshore commissioner from 1967 to 69. I was a benevelent dictator, appointed my own commission, carried the message to Europe and coerced them into our thinking. Things were so smooth, that when I was taken ill in 1969, the motion to wish me a speedy recovery passed 6 to 5 here, and failed in the UIM............
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    Founding Member / Super Moderator Ratickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie View Post
    I was Offshore commissioner from 1967 to 69. I was a benevelent dictator, appointed my own commission, carried the message to Europe and coerced them into our thinking. Things were so smooth, that when I was taken ill in 1969, the motion to wish me a speedy recovery passed 6 to 5 here, and failed in the UIM............


    One of the funniest things I ever read.......
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    Icon/Charter Member T2x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
    Matt,

    IMHO we are not talking about politics here. These are the hard realities. If the brave remaining few truly want to set the sport back on the right path these realities have to be recognized and dealt with: 1. Certain people who have been constants as leaders of the sport for the past 20 + years have to be politely excluded from any future leadership positions of influence; 2. There has to be unification; 3. There has to be a dictator with strong support from a deep pocket BOD; 4. There has to be a single set of rules controlled by the dictator and his own people who are independent from the industry; 5. There has to be TV; 6. There has to be a boycott proof product model; 7. And most importantly, there has to be lots of financial capital behind the sanctioning organization. Without those...
    Agreed...........

    Now let's build on this with a few questions and a road map:

    1. The LLC contract with APBA is up in a couple of years. Does it have to be renewed? Or....can it be dissolved...and replaced with the old APBA Offshore Division?

    2. If it is continued, does it have to carry the UIM sanction with it?

    In either event the APBA/UIM needs to be the single overall sanctioning body for a number of reasons (legitamacy of World records and championships and connectivity with racers worldwide). With that said, SBI, OSS, OPA, and any other group would (and should)become extraneous and must either come under the APBA/UIM umbrella...or be dissolved. Right now SBI is controlling the APBA/UIM banner without any measureable return to the sport as a whole.

    There is also an APBA "special events" sanctioning mechanism that I believe takes an event out of any other division's oversight. There is a chance that this could be used to sanction an entire offshore series. Certainly any of HORBA's proposed long distance races could fall under this.

    Rules should be crafted to create a key major class and a very limited number of SIMPLE developmental/sportsman classes (ala major and minor league).

    One group must be empowered to market and negotiate the major sponsor efforts. This will solve the "Background noise" which is and has been confusing and turning off potential backers who have been hounded repeatedly by every Tom, Dick and Harry racing group and race team for years.

    Good stuff...

    T2x
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    Icon/Charter Member T2x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie View Post
    I was Offshore commissioner from 1967 to 69. I was a benevelent dictator, appointed my own commission, carried the message to Europe and coerced them into our thinking. Things were so smooth, that when I was taken ill in 1969, the motion to wish me a speedy recovery passed 6 to 5 here, and failed in the UIM............
    I still wish you a speedy recovery......... Have the nice doctors decided when you can go out without a chaperone?
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    Registered Mike A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    Agreed...........

    Now let's build on this with a few questions and a road map:

    1. The LLC contract with APBA is up in a couple of years. Does it have to be renewed? Or....can it be dissolved...and replaced with the old APBA Offshore Division?

    2. If it is continued, does it have to carry the UIM sanction with it?

    In either event the APBA/UIM needs to be the single overall sanctioning body for a number of reasons (legitamacy of World records and championships and connectivity with racers worldwide). With that said, SBI, OSS, OPA, and any other group would (and should)become extraneous and must either come under the APBA/UIM umbrella...or be dissolved. Right now SBI is controlling the APBA/UIM banner without any measureable return to the sport as a whole.

    There is also an APBA "special events" sanctioning mechanism that I believe takes an event out of any other division's oversight. There is a chance that this could be used to sanction an entire offshore series. Certainly any of HORBA's proposed long distance races could fall under this.

    Rules should be crafted to create a key major class and a very limited number of SIMPLE developmental/sportsman classes (ala major and minor league).

    One group must be empowered to market and negotiate the major sponsor efforts. This will solve the "Background noise" which is and has been confusing and turning off potential backers who have been hounded repeatedly by every Tom, Dick and Harry racing group and race team for years.

    Good stuff...

    T2x
    Rich,

    I have no clue what the current license agreement looks like. Personally, I believe the UIM/APBA brands are virtually worthless today. If I were heading a new organization I would not spend a penny for either.

    A NEWCO needs substantial start-up capital and a credible board of directors with a single, authoritarian CEO. There should be a single premier spec engine class, fast and affordable, and most importantly, controlled by NEWCO at least at the beginning. Cat or Vee, would not matter to me, although I think long term a v-bottom class would work best. I would also get rid of the two man teams. One person in the boat does it all.

    The rest of the sport should be based on a very simple, run what you brung formula that looks like what OPA has now = the P classes from the LLC days. In other words, only one class with technical rules. KISS. NEWCO uses these classes to build a fan base, competitor base, industry sponsor base, and to put heads in beds at the events.
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