Obama speech to the kids.

[Ratickle]

One of the things that did happen from all of the fervor, the original speech was changed from asking the kids to write out things they would do to help the President, then the teacher would gather them up to see how well they did later in the year. It was switched to write out things they would do to improve themselves. So that was one positive from the bit-chin.

[VtSteve]

What it really proved was all this politics stuff sucks.

Would you rather be boating, drinking, screwing, or just plain relaxing, or reading lies and dribble on the internet about people that couldn't give a chit about anyone? I mean really, Screw Drudge, and Kos and Beck should try to get a life. I'm certainly not going to spend mine trying to find the 10% or less of truth in their bellyaching.


Time for a beer.

[Ratickle]

What it really proved was all this politics stuff sucks.

Would you rather be boating, drinking, screwing, or just plain relaxing, or reading lies and dribble on the internet about people that couldn't give a chit about anyone? I mean really, Screw Drudge, and Kos and Beck should try to get a life. I'm certainly not going to spend mine trying to find the 10% or less of truth in their bellyaching.


Time for a beer.

I think we have to be more involved. The lies by politicians is what caused this mess in the first place, and the 10% truth they sprinkle in to try and be heard just isn't good enough.

[VtSteve]

I think we have to be more involved. The lies by politicians is what caused this mess in the first place, and the 10% truth they sprinkle in to try and be heard just isn't good enough.

I've turned full circle on this. I think the voters tell (or at least forward and/or repeat) more lies than the politicians. The pundits train them, then they go. I trust more politicians than I do real people now

I know, that' sad. But this thread alone is enough to make me think of this famous quote.

The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with your average voter.

wc

[Ratickle]

true. That's why I wish no one could vote if they did not pay any taxes......

[catastrophe]

Is there real proof that the "original speach " existed ?

[VtSteve]

I'm not giving the taxpayer any more credit either.

But hey, we're about to have a Mitt Romney style contorted health care bill/tax imposed. Everyone likes fines and high costs right?

[Ratickle]

I'm hoping we can beat the healthcare bill, and actually use the left ideals to make imprvements to a system that is not perfect by any means, but certainly is still the world's best....

The goal should be to get government completely out, not in further.

[VtSteve]

I'm not a huge fan of our super hi tech no prevention type of heavily overinflated cost "health care". But I don't want anyone to do anything about it. And if I don't like it, I don;t want to have to be fined for it either.

[jayboat]

I've turned full circle on this. I think the voters tell (or at least forward and/or repeat) more lies than the politicians. The pundits train them, then they go. I trust more politicians than I do real people now

I know, that' sad. But this thread alone is enough to make me think of this famous quote.

The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with your average voter.

wc

ahh yeah... Mencken said the same thing, only different:

"democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance."

--HL Mencken

[Ratickle]

“Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it”


Thomas Sowell

Owned.......

[Ratickle]

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

Winston Churchill

Or, if you wish to quote Churchill

[Ratickle]

Or, Mencken for Jay.....


“Socialism: nothing more than the theory that the slave is always more virtuous than his master”


Henry Louis Mencken

[sledge]

I paid $24,000 last year for premiums, deductible and uncovered expenses last year. I tell you what, i will abondon my sincerely loyalty to capitalism only to see HI comanies suffer for what they have done to our economy.

I know this is still a hijack for the thread. And I also don't mean anything directly personal by quoting you and whatever condition your wife has, I hope the best for her and your family. FWIW, my mother has been a cancer survivor for the last 13 years and through her experiences with changing jobs and trying to keep coverage, I think I can relate to the plight somewhat.

HOWEVER, at some point, there has to be an acknowledgment that THIS SH!T COSTS MONEY! SOMEBODY has to pay for it. Whether it comes out of our paycheck as insurance premiums, or out of our pockets as deductibles/straight pay, or out of our pockets in the form of increased taxes, healthcare doesn't grow on trees. I recently read an article about a family suing an insurance company because they were being dropped. One family member has muscular dystrophy and had 24/7 nurses. The premium on the policy was $50k/year and the cost of services were $700k/year !!! Think about that: pay $50k get back $700k...for life. This particular policy had no annual/lifetime limits.

As capitalists, where do we respect the right to earn a reasonable profit and sustain an ongoing business? Look at property insurance in the state of Florida and what happens when risks AREN'T adequately priced. Insurance companies fail and the burden gets spread out anyways. We've become spoiled and look to insurance as yet another entitlement. Consider what would happen if there was no group pool (insurance) with which to share costs; everybody paid their own way. Where would we be?

On a different note, and I've said this before, savvy cash payers can negotiate a discount for most services. As shown in LC's research, doctors will take less real cash today to avoid jumping through hoops to collect 50% over time. Even after an emergency visit, you can negotiate. People have to get over the fear of asking up front "what will this cost?"

[phragle]

you can trust a politician to the extent that you know he has an alterior motive for whatever he does, you can see thru the smokescreen.... but a lot of the voters..you cant trust them, they have no motive other than following the smoke, which blows from all directions

[Ratickle]

People have to get over the fear of asking up front "what will this cost?"

I think most don't really care because their insurance covers it.

[phragle]

HOWEVER, at some point, there has to be an acknowledgment that THIS SH!T COSTS MONEY! SOMEBODY has to pay for it. Whether it comes out of our paycheck as insurance premiums, or out of our pockets as deductibles/straight pay, or out of our pockets in the form of increased taxes, healthcare doesn't grow on trees. I recently read an article about a family suing an insurance company because they were being dropped. One family member has muscular dystrophy and had 24/7 nurses. The premium on the policy was $50k/year and the cost of services were $700k/year !!! Think about that: pay $50k get back $700k...for life. This particular policy had no annual/lifetime limits.

?"

Insurance companies are gambling entities, thas the nature of the buisness. they lost the hand on the MD 700K a year hand. they also win on a lot of people that never go to the hospital during the year, maybe get one checkup, thats it. If you make a bet/take a bet and loose, you don't shirk the bet, you pay up. if you made a perpetual 50k bet that paid 700k ift he Detroit lions would go undefeated all season and win the super bowl... then when they did you went back to your favorite bookie, would you be ready to break some kneecaps when he told you.. "sorry, we arent going to do buisness with you.."

[jayboat]

Or, Mencken for Jay.....


“Socialism: nothing more than the theory that the slave is always more virtuous than his master”


Henry Louis Mencken

Mr. Mencken was a very astute man.

[LaughingCat]

HOWEVER, at some point, there has to be an acknowledgment that THIS SH!T COSTS MONEY!

As capitalists, where do we respect the right to earn a reasonable profit and sustain an ongoing business?

I take no insult in being quoted. This is a very good thread covering two issues. My wife is fine, thank you for the kind thought. And my mother is also a cancer survivor of 5 years. we can all be thankful for how advanced our medicine are and well-trained the doctors are.

i do want to make comments on two of your thoughts.

This stuff does cost money. But if I enter a contract, and as anyone with an insurance license knows, health insurance is a UNILATERAL contract. That means, both sides are not made whole. the insurance company is taking the open-ended risk. So if I enter a risk with the insurance company, or anyone, and the contract stipulates that they will pay in the event of a covered loss, I expect them to pay, period.

And on teh second thought, I have no problem with a reasonable profit for anyone. But I have a real problem with massive profits made by screwing their client.

A third thought on Florida homeowner's insurance issue, California had a similar problem. lots of earthquakes and the insurance companies cried poor. They said they couldnt make money on homes, but they can on auto, life, health, etc. It got so bad, California kicked a company out, said they couldn't do ANY business in the state. Then said anotehr will go soon and in no time, the state will just cover everyone. Surprisingly, the companies got together and came to the state claiming they figured a way to cover houses and make money.

See, in Florida, the state allowed insurance co's to form separate corporations bundling the Florida properties separate from the rest of their holdings int he US. So now, every policy had a direct hurricane threat. So what do you think happened when hurricane hit? They all cried poor.

So instead of using the basic premise of insurance, the law of diverse selection, they were able to illustrate how much they would lose if they didn't jack rates to the moon. And the politicians in their back pocket bit on it, hook line and sinker.

I want them to make money so they will stay in business and give me coverage. but cherry picking the types of policies for homeowners, or the typed of ailments in health, is not acceptable. either you cover us for everything or you don't write anything in the state.

There is a reason doctors are on-board with the public option. . . they realize they got bamboozled by the insurance co's in the 04 election. They were told, you fight for tort reform and we can drop you malpractice premiums. Well, they got small tort reform, a new "three strikes and your out" rule for doctors. Lose you license after three malpractice judgements. AND their premiums have gone up. So doctors don't care for private insurers either. You bite the hand too much and the hand will slap you back. that's what's happening to insurance companies now. and they deserve it.

[phragle]

the 3 strikes is BS!.. true while you don't want a Dr. to make mistakes, especially on you, one really needs to grasp reality. Can any of you bring me a carreer auto mechanic who has less than 3 repairs go wrong over his carreer?? How about a boat mechanic?? a plumber?? yet the human body is much more complicated than any of the above and for some reason Doctors are expected to achieve 100% success. add to that the fact that cars and boats don't fail to take their medication or follow directions....