In the same year 1973 the friend-rival of Dominic Visconsi-Sandy Satullo jumped from the Cigs.36' to the new Gara-Corsa 40' of Barry Cordingly (at least I believe that Barry was the designer).
I don't have the sketches of the two boats - MSV 44' and Gara 40' - but from the photos it seems me that the two boats are resembled a lot in the hulls.
The V seems me equal and even the runnings strakes are three and in identical position nearly.
A coincidence or who has copied who?
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12-05-2009 12:55 PM
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12-05-2009 01:55 PM
This didn't justify the fact to pretend that the World Championship had to exclusively be raced in US waters every year.
This happened after the Worlds finals of Key West of the 1981. The APBA didn't want to send around the World its champions anymore and pretended that the rest of the World every year introduced him to the presence of the temple of the god of the offshore Key West.
It was the beginning of the end of the offshore racing.
The rest they made the cats and the consequent more and more competitions inshore.
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12-05-2009 02:07 PMI recall paul haggerty former salesman at cigarette joining norman ziler of nyc , he financed this endeavour . nick chapman more or less lofted out this boat this boat hull plug for norman . norman was a former client of cigarette,and owner of blass port in nyc. bill blass designs. barry left sandy and went to work for norman . the gara 40 had a different bottom ,the bow area I think had a much sharper entry . they copied our three strakes . nick had already built our plug much early and under stood my three strake concept at msv. none of the other guys in this group could loft out anything. the hull was 40 long 9ft something wide .in the end had a high deck profile . by the way nick talked sandy into building another gara in wood ,less weight.from those same drawings. the glass boat made an excellent day cruiser. I will explain the 44 msv bottom and our no trim,minimum flap and dead level ,full throttle running in bad and difficult seas .we thought out this entire project,at that time my conclusion was we need stronger drives and more power to prove the full potential of this project. Sonny Miller ciao grazie
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12-05-2009 03:49 PM
Then was Nick Chapman the designer of the Gara?
Or a pool of guys?
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12-05-2009 04:24 PMI sure it was norman ziler,working with nick . bob saccenti and I had built for mr. ziler in our old days at cigarette a 28 cig mr lucky and 36cig day boat .they operated in the hamptons.norman was a tuff nyc all business type guy. he directed every move in his quest to rival don. Gara project it seems after the point pleasant race our former plug builder got busy . paul haggery could have helped with the deck layout,after all he was to try to sell these boats? Sonny Miller I loved offshore running in very bad sea conditions ,its like punching a hole in an aqua hell . a true test of men and there equipment.
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12-05-2009 09:24 PMI don't want to take away from the discussion here on the MSV boats, but as you all can tell, Sonny Miller was a real pioneer in the sport. Sonny was one of the original guys with the tin boats as he worked with Merrick Lewis back in the Maritime days. He was a rigger that learned his trade well and even helped a new guy to the business by the name of Saccenti.........BUT a good friend of mine reminded me of a great story that only Sonny can tell......
What does Sonny and Christopher Columbus have in common?
Well, Columbus started a voyage for India and ended up in the Turks and Caicos.
Sonny started a voyage with a new Cigarette headed for Nassau.....and he also ended up in the Turks and Caicos.
Sonny.....you fill in the details please....thanks.Light travels faster than sound....that is why some people appear bright until we hear them speak!!
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12-06-2009 01:57 AM
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12-06-2009 06:23 AMAs this thread is rapidly becoming the Sonny Miller story,and why not,and the fact that charlie has let the cat out of the bag re the Maritime era,how about some Maritime pics posted even if it`s on another thread.Particular ones being Maritime Too (1965),Hustler III (1971),Thumper Too (1968/70),Boss O Nova (1968).
Marco will be on the edge of his seat awaiting these pics.
For your amusement Sonny,if you look on the multimedia section of the Boatmad.com site under non racing pics,there are some shots of Momma Maritime and Baby Maritime taken at Fairey Marine when the boats came over to the UK for the Wills Int in 1967.I crept into Faireys as a teenager to snap them before being escorted out the front gate!
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12-06-2009 10:44 AMI am starting to feel old .to keep it straight , I started with merrick in the norskog holocaust,then thunderbird # 50 and then thunderbird # 250 and then thunderbird #283 and then came back to usa and started the mama maritime project . I was in until sea trials only . Sonny Miller Thanks
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12-06-2009 12:26 PMthis is funny a new client in a new 28 cig picked me up in freeport ,heading down to nassau . we went south heading toward the jolders off williams Island .after 2 hr s we see nothing ,I discovered the owner ty rapped his key ball under the compass. that killed it .vhf radio good only 20 miles a bad afternoon storm and a hurricane coming from cuba we beached the boat on west andros. and tied up to a crashed air plane abandon there. 1/4 fuel left ,we saw hammer head sharks that glowed in the night,giant saw fish in the bites and wild boar running around.two water spouts near us,I saw the lights of andros town and was going to walk in to a phone.willy meyers shows up in a big helicopter and brought me more fuel.we drove to chubb quay ,and had a drink. back at cigarette don and bob saccenti are laughing telling everyone that something happened in the boat between me and this guys wife. Sonny miller
Bobby told me that he had moved your toolbox over to his area and when you came back to Cigarette, he told you that he heard you were a goner, so he just took over your toolbox.....but since you were still alive, here it is back again.
Those were great days before GPS. The racers of today don't realize that every race we went to, we had to swing the compasses all over again on the day before the race, or they could not be counted on to work correctly.Light travels faster than sound....that is why some people appear bright until we hear them speak!!
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12-06-2009 12:36 PMHere are some shots of Sonny back in the day.
A couple of Mama Maritimes and then Nordkog's Holacaust, with the chines that came down to stabilize the boat as it began to chine walk and finally one of Wishnicks many rides....this one a tin boat by Maritime.Light travels faster than sound....that is why some people appear bright until we hear them speak!!
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12-06-2009 12:45 PMHere are some right from the win at the first Benihana.
HORBA has over 30,000 images and is putting a lot of these unseenones in our new book Bluewater Warriors, Offshore Racing's Golden Era of the Deep Vee...1970 - 1980.
Bottom photo with the trophy.....left to right. Bobby Saccenti, Rocky Aoki, Sonny Miller and Jon Varese.Light travels faster than sound....that is why some people appear bright until we hear them speak!!
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12-06-2009 04:34 PM
Maritime Too (1965),Hustler III (1971),Thumper Too (1968/70),Boss O Nova (1968).
Always praiseworthy your efforts in to put photo from your precious archive Charlie - but none of these satisfies the requests of Flying Fish and me unfortunately.
Hard it is to look for those four among yours over 30.000.
And are alls four before the 1970's-1980's.
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12-07-2009 09:57 AMIn the Sonny Miller three boat pic, #33 is Sam Sarra and Merrick Lewis, and #23 Is Billy Wishnick, Art Koopmans and me. My favorite Sonny MIller race story is when he forgot to show up for the race in WPB/Lucaya with Jim Breuil. Must have been some of that aqua hell he was talking about.........
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12-07-2009 10:00 AMthat nordkog boat,when merrick and I raced it in west palm. it had twin engines on one big daytona v drive , one in the center and the other in the rear. two air ride bucket seats ,two foot throttles and one big clever rudder.those chine flaps cranked down by hand pump. sonny miller