Cat Insurance - Enough is Enough!

[Joe]

Joe,

I heard the same promises from my agent who sold my my Cat policy. It's going to be $x this year but will get it lowered next year....never happened... Which by-the-way is from American Reliable and not Markel, either way they both have you over a barrel unless your foolish enough to run without insurance...

I'm not saying I'm extremely happy about the situation but it doesn't look like there's much anyone can do about it...

Jim

hey jim,

sorry to hear... it's unfortunate people at this level, with simiar interests, have such a low level of integrity. I can't begin to tell you how many PM's and email's I've received sharing similar stories.

it's a shame.... 'over promise and under deliver' --- seems to be the motto for everything affiliated to and with the boat business.


joe

[BRAD SCHOENWALD]

brad, i know you and i already had a phone call discussing this... so i'm even more suprised you would post the above. bottom line, i offered to take your class and EP told me it wasn't necessary with my skill level. seriously (and that was before I decided to ask JT to run the boat w/ me).

so, apparently, you're taking your shot in the wrong direction, hombre!!!! btw --- glad your response kept this 'non-public.'

ps: tres, before you get started --- remember... brad started it!!! LOL.

Joe
Wrong Brad

I dont post my private conversations

Long Break Out!

[Joe]

No jokes, happens to the best. One of the guys in your boat said it was the best ride he has ever taken and the smoothest. He said the boat and driving was outstanding.

In the 2 years that I have had Stacy and EIB insuring my boat the premium has gone down both years, plus the 10% discount from taking Tres course.

thanks. she's fast --- very fast for a 1075 36'er.... and i appreciate you relaying the compliment on the driving. it was quite bumpy as we started 3rd from last out of the marina, passing the cruiser wakes etc... i remember my navigator saying, 'i can't believe we're over 130 MPH and the boat's handling this well going across water like this.'

i tell you what, i don't care what anyone says.... running with JT gives you perspectives that you can not even imagine.

i still remember when we took her out hallover in miami... it was 'lumpy' to say the least. coming from a 100 MPH 'v', it took quite a bit of time wrapping my head around when to be on and when to be off the throttes-- it's completely backwards from a 'v.' ...and when we broke 150 MPH, i got to see another skill set, which is completely different from running slower in rolling swells. oh, and then there's the whole, 'don't turn a cat too sharp thing.' JT answered that question perfectly.

i was actually cut off by my friend on the run back from Top Water that weekend... he drifted toward me in excess of 100 MPH, while making the turn at April Fool's Point, pushing me toward another boat that was iding w/ the hatch up and the shore...

i saw the look on my navigator's face, and he was nervous (and later found, once we were on shore - at the fuel dock...haha, so was everyone else). i can clearly say, without running with JT, and learning what i did, i 1) would have been scared stiff to turn the boat like i did (and wouldn't have known how to 'keep it safe' while doing it) and 2) wouldn't have understood the 'scare' of tripping the boat in such a condition. we were running in solid 3-4' churned-up boat wake chop coming from the outside quarter as we were well into the turn (which is 'the' recipe for disaster).

---
i might give her a call. however, i still would like to stay w/ collier and david... but wow, am i suprised by their response -- it makes it difficult, on principle alone???


joe

ps: i still remember 'one of them' calling me and saying they'd like to get my policy over from Total Dollar, when i had my cigarettes... because of the pubicity they would get from the poker running etc... i do. strange way of saying, 'thank you,' is't it.

BTW, I never had this problem w/ John Posey or 'uni-baller.' Sorry they don't have a cat program. great guys (as painful as it is to say --- haha.... only kidding)!!!!!

[Joe]

h Take the class and reduce your rates!

for anyone that saw my previous post, i thought 'brad' was brad schoenwald, and i responded appropriately to 'him.' brad just notified me 'brad' is not him and i therefore deleted my post accordingly.

to, 'brad' ---- you have no idea what you're talking about!!!!! you might consider 'pm'ing' folks first vs. posting things you know nothing about. but, no worries.


all the best,


joe

[BobbyB]

Joe,
Just curious what does the insurance cost for your boat? If you dont want to post send me a pm.
Thanks

[Joe]

Joe,
Just curious what does the insurance cost for your boat? If you dont want to post send me a pm.
Thanks

a lot!!!!! sorry, not to be evasive, but, there are tons of variables. i am not complaining about my 'rate' but rather a broken promise between 'friends.'

[MarylandMark]

a lot!!!!! sorry, not to be evasive, but, there are tons of variables. i am not complaining about my 'rate' but rather a broken promise between 'friends.'

+1

Seems to be the way of the world in the boat biz

[detail toyz]

a lot!!!!! sorry, not to be evasive, but, there are tons of variables. i am not complaining about my 'rate' but rather a broken promise between 'friends.'

I agree with everything you say Joe. I think with all situations in insurance they are all pretty much legalized crooks. I have a mobile detail company and I had a bear of a time trying to just get liability insurance, finaly found one that went by my sales not my driving records. All insurance is messed up. And yes it makes no sense that guy getting the same quote as you, whats that say to you your allowed to go ding up some boats and get the same rate as before... what a joke what is the world comming to.

Good Luck with all that.

And awsome boat, I saw it being rigged at Skater last summer. By the way what is your next bigger boat going to be??

[Chris]

Insurance is a guessing game. It's nothing more than legalized gambling- on the part of the insurance company. And with a risk pool as small as what the 120+mph cat community presents, coupled with some high-dollar claims in the past few years, it's no surprise they're cautious in their pricing.

If there was major dollars to be made here, there would be dozens of specialty insurers clamoring to get in. I'm sure it's profitable for the people that are in the segment, but that's the way it's supposed to work. Would you invest in a business that didn't make money? Like I said before, if it weren't for the few people willing to write it, where would we be?

[sy goldberg]

I have a question based on the recent horrible accident on LONG ISLAND.I wonder if the insurance company that covered this boat(65 MPH VEE HULL) will raise rates to help compensate for paying a claim which after several years litigation could be well over $1,000,000 or will their accountants figure out that this is not a high profit line of business and shut the program down.I can't even begin to guess the profit margin if any in cat insurance.I think that we are now entering some interesting times in high performance boat insurance.I'm glad I'm old (72),in wind down mode,and have a large book of traditional boat insurance to ride out the impending storm.

[Chris]

Sy,

Do these carriers use the reinsurance market or do they carry 100% of the liability?

[sy goldberg]

It varies by company.

[Joe]

I have a question based on the recent horrible accident on LONG ISLAND.I wonder if the insurance company that covered this boat(65 MPH VEE HULL) will raise rates to help compensate for paying a claim which after several years litigation could be well over $1,000,000 or will their accountants figure out that this is not a high profit line of business and shut the program down.I can't even begin to guess the profit margin if any in cat insurance.I think that we are now entering some interesting times in high performance boat insurance.I'm glad I'm old (72),in wind down mode,and have a large book of traditional boat insurance to ride out the impending storm.

sy,

addressing your point re: insuring the cats... when running these speeds the danger level is certainly increased vs. running 65-100 MPH (which also can be just as dangerous). I'm just suprised there hasn't been more strict covenents/guidelines put in place surrounding the physical "condition" (which, in itself is broad in definition) of the actual boater, and the level to which his/her vessel has been/is maintained (maintance receipts - albeit either the purchase of parts, oil etc... or actual receipts from svs. shops, etc...).


joe

[Chris]

You would think that "certification" of a 140+ mph boat would be a good idea. But (and I'm just guessing here) most likely they are looking at the small risk pool and lumping everyone together. They know the risk pretty well and they most likey have it rated profitably. And they know that there are only so many places you can go. They realize that lowering their rates won't bring more boaters into that pool- I doubt there's anyone out there holding off on that $million + cat because insurance is 5 grend high.

All these ideas on making fast boat insurance more affordable are absolutely valid. Now all we need is someone to enter the market and put them to work.

Here's the big question- why haven't the fast boat manufacturers gotten together and begun working with an insurer on this?

[BRAD SCHOENWALD]

You would think that "certification" of a 140+ mph boat would be a good idea. But (and I'm just guessing here) most likely they are looking at the small risk pool and lumping everyone together. They know the risk pretty well and they most likey have it rated profitably. And they know that there are only so many places you can go. They realize that lowering their rates won't bring more boaters into that pool- I doubt there's anyone out there holding off on that $million + cat because insurance is 5 grend high.

All these ideas on making fast boat insurance more affordable are absolutely valid. Now all we need is someone to enter the market and put them to work.

Here's the big question- why haven't the fast boat manufacturers gotten together and begun working with an insurer on this?

Chris,
I would really like to take the time to properly respond to all of this however I just don’t have the time right now.

I will tell you there are many things in the Recreational Performance Boating Industry which do not support real sustainable growth and survivability.

Lack of professionalism, Lack of leadership, and myopic views.

We have pushed and presented long term strategies for five years now. While some individuals and individual companies have been supportive either as an independent or in stride step; The industry as a whole has pushed back rather than engage in real options for change and growth. Now presented with horrible economic conditions the push back is even greater.
The fear of loss remains and the unwillingness of the industry figureheads to demonstrate real leadership remains a problem.


Brad

[Joe]

Chris,
I would really like to take the time to properly respond to all of this however I just don’t have the time right now.

I will tell you there are many things in the Recreational Performance Boating Industry which do not support real sustainable growth and survivability.

Lack of professionalism, Lack of leadership, and myopic views.

We have pushed and presented long term strategies for five years now. While some individuals and individual companies have been supportive either as an independent or in stride step; The industry as a whole has pushed back rather than engage in real options for change and growth. Now presented with horrible economic conditions the push back is even greater.
The fear of loss remains and the unwillingness of the industry figureheads to demonstrate real leadership remains a problem.


Brad

It's a catch-22.... people are already complaining about the price of new boats, yet, on the other hand, in order for the boat builders to get involved, i can only imagine that would/could ad to it. Now the insurance exec's, on the other hand... that's a different story.

in my simplistic mind.... if it's true that the insurance folks are dictating a price in a market they already control, how about adding strong parameters (several previously mentioned), being a bit more strategic and forward thinking - fishing in front of the net, per-se (which is clearly what Tres and Brad are promoting/doing), vs. what seems to be the 'norm' of making a 'fix' after something serious has already occurred.

how about PRA and FLPwrbt envoking the 'blow' test during the morning capitan's meeting (mocking the offshore racers). increase the fee a couple bucks and get it done --- if you're REALLY promoting the whole 'beer on the pier,' idea, what about getting 'sauced' on the fri. nights prior and not being 100% the next morning (which very well could be only a few ours prior to the last 'beverage).

Needless to say, i've been guilty of it quite a few times in the past, until i finally realized it was just as dangerous in a boat runnning 100 MPH as it is in one capable of 150 MPH +. i learned there's always plenty of time to hit the bar either on thur. nights prior, or sat. afterwards. anyway, that's been my new motto for the last two years!

Just a suggestion -- not meaning to sound like (or be) a hater!


joe

[sy goldberg]

That horrible LONG ISLAND boat crash will probably wipe out the premium collected for about 600 vee hull policies and that boat was only capable of approximately 65 mph.I see the amount of claims that I process and believe me the insurance carriers are not getting rich writing high performance policies.I'll be surprised if the actuaries from the company that wrote the policy don't pull trhe plug on the program.I've seen this happen 4 times already.

[Joe]

wow.... what's it looking like, specifically in regard to poker running coverage? do you forsee a change in coverage for such events etc....?

[sy goldberg]

these events seem to be off the radar for now,but hopefully common sense will prevail and egos are left at the dock and no informal full throttle accident causing informal races occur.

[Ratickle]

wow.... what's it looking like, specifically in regard to poker running coverage? do you forsee a change in coverage for such events etc....?

Brad and Tres are in the loop too as far as what's going on with insurance proposals/changes, boating laws and proposed changes, etc. The non-profit they started may be what is required to give performance boating any long-term viability.

Hopefully, when they get back, they can explain some more of this on-line with Sy's input as well.