At what speed do you wear lifevests?

[Chris]

And I'll ad that I don't think any of this is aimed at any one person in specific. And if someone grabs a jacket that they otherwise wouldn't have, the discussion was worthwhile.

I've done lots of dumb, dangerous things without giving a second's pause to think about the possibilities. There have been things that took 20 years to register just how bad they were and how many people would have been affected quite deeply if a shred of luck would have gone the other way.

[BLAZE]

And I'll ad that I don't think any of this is aimed at any one person in specific. And if someone grabs a jacket that they otherwise wouldn't have, the discussion was worthwhile.

I've done lots of dumb, dangerous things without giving a second's pause to think about the possibilities. There have been things that took 20 years to register just how bad they were and how many people would have been affected quite deeply if a shred of luck would have gone the other way.

Very well put!

[Tank]

I'm not pushing for mandated restrictions, you can't outlaw stupidity. I've been laying in a hospital bed the last five days, listening to a man one room down from me who broke his neck, fight for every breath for five days. I don't know the circumstances behind his broken neck, but I doubt you'd be so cavalier about getting a broken neck if you saw and heard him. I guarangodamntee he wishes he'd never done whatever broke his neck. So does his family. I know you could get hit by a bus, but that doesn't mean you should NOT do something as simple as put on a lifejacket. I remember way back when I took driver's Ed, they showed a picture of a girl who said she didn't like to wear a seatbelt because it wrinkled her dress. Then they showed a picture of her in a full body cast. Wonder if she worried about her wrinkled dress while she was laying there in a body cast? In my considered opinion, not taking simple safety precautions is just plain stupid. It's the boaters who DON'T take these simple precautions that will have them legislated down our throats.

If your goal is to have restrictions rammed down our throats because you thoughtlessly went out and broke your fool neck, kudos to you.

Cuda, I empathize with your situation and don’t envy your stay in the hospital, nor the reason for it.

However, don’t arrogantly assume that I am being cavalier and have not seen my share of injury and death at the hands of stupid mistakes. There is nothing cavalier about my stance on this topic. I just don’t agree life vests need to be worn at all times. And again, most importantly, I feel discussing how you and others feel vests should be worn at all times, only sets to hinder and restrict our hobby further. And again, I take personal calculated risk; weighing the totality of the circumstances. I don’t personally believe in “absolutes” and that belief carries over into this topic.

I (as well as 40flatdeck) only gave similar circumstances of doing things that were not 100% safe, to give examples of the many and varied types of things in this life that I (& others) experienced that were not always safe. And to live this life to the fullest, sometimes risks are taken. I however, don’t appreciate your snide comments (gargle with drano and floss with barbed wire) because some may disagree with your stance on the subject.

And here is a random thought….If you are really concerned for other people safety, why not campaign to never run at these high speeds. I’ve said it over and over, a life vest is not going to save your life in a collision, stuff or roll at 150 mph, it is only going to make it easy for the search and rescue to recover your body. Hence, going these speeds is yet again, another example of calculated risk. But I don’t see you on here shaking your fist at those that choose to go those speeds that will most likely cause the collision that will cause the major injury or death (with or with out life vest). The Pammy skater, Nashville Katz/Flash Gordon, Outerlimits at Smoke on the Water…All recent examples of deaths at high speed with life vests on.

You say, a collision with out a vest on will cause regulation and legislation, I say, doesn’t matter if your vest is on or not at these speeds. There will be lawsuits, there will be insurance hikes, there will be cancelations of events, etc. And those insurance, events and lawsuits will be on these boards pulling these types of threads to add fodder to their agenda.

So by all means, continue to discuss this topic that may at some time be used against all of us in some courtroom. But my opinion has not changed on tghis subject and I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind to wear vests…But I’m done trying to make you guys see my point that sdiscussing this on an open forum is the ultimate stupidity.

[Sean Stinson]

Hell ask a couple seasoned pros how their swim outside of haulover was as the boat ran circles around them bobbing their dumb asses in the water!!!!!

and they still dont wear them.. Unless I get onboard and zip it up for them....[/QUOTE]

So you know the story as well

[catmando]

When I bought my boat, the seller said it would run 100+(he lied but that's another story). Anyway, the first thing I did at the ramp and the dock was put my vest on before I got underway. If there were passengers with me they had to do the same thing. I might just cruise around at 50-60 but then I might hit the gas and go at WOT. Everybody had to jacket up or they got left at the dock.

[T2x]

Ya Never Know, But that's just me! Oh, and everyone that gets in my boat must wear life jackets, or get the Fu$k out!

One more question Augie.......

What exactly is a Fu$K? It seems to have something to do with money.

[Airpacker]

One more question Augie.......

What exactly is a Fu$K? It seems to have something to do with money.

Rich, maybe thats a question better asked in the wives, girlfriends and dock HOOKERS thread

[Ratickle]

One more question Augie.......

What exactly is a Fu$K? It seems to have something to do with money.

Now that's funny......


Definitely been plenty of it spent on it over time......

[T2x]

I say:

A) Doesn't matter how much you argue people should wear their vests, most wont. You're not going to change peoples minds on the topic.

B) (Due to the above) All the pounding on the keyboards in an attempt to make people see it your way, will only further assist those (insurance companies and law-makers who are getting money from them) that seek to restrict our hobby.

A) My Motto is "The Majority of people are almost always wrong", but if I save one of them from drowning, all this "keyboard pounding" is worth it.

B) It would be nice to believe that the media and political types are monitoring our website, but the fact is they don't until somebody(s) get('s) killed. They are too busy ignoring Nationwide Tea Parties to pay attention to us. Deaths on the water are exponentially more potent weapons for politicians to point at us than anything written in these hallowed E-halls. IMHO. In fact I have taken more grief from my Life Jacket from performance boaters than anyone else. At one fun run I was pointed to and laughed at ( "Hey it's him...and he's putting on a life jacket...har, har, har!") for putting on a Life Jacket in my 28 Skater before starting a 50 mile run in nasty snot. In fact the same boat full of mental midgets tried to cut me off shortly before the finish of the event. I'm sure they don't wear helmets on motorcycles either.

Final point....I don't mind helmet, life jacket and lanyard laws, I lived by them for years in racing. I do mind putting speed limits on wide open lakes and coastal estuaries because of "accidents" and "safety issues". We are stuck with noise laws because many people think that loud car motors in boats are somehow "sexy"..... They abuse this by revving them for no reason at marinas, fuel docks and watering holes..... instead of using dash controlled, noise abatement equipment around large groups of civilians. Of course this was another example of acting out their "Civil Rights"..... in a dumb, useless manner (other than those guys who confuse displays of horsepower with pecker length and "need" this to arouse themselves for purely therepeutic reasons.......probably a California loophole somewhere ).

Bottom line....... If you want to die on the water...... do it in Venezuela, or Dubai.....or someplace else where mindless death doesn't make our headlines.

T2x

[T2x]

By the way...I'm a pretty good driver...all in all... and I have screwed up any number of times.

For instance here's one of my better performances...and the result of another. The judges gave me a perfect 10 on the somersault, but 1's and 2's on the landing....

[T2x]

One of the best drivers in the world has to be my long time friend John Sherlock, long time test driver for Mercury Marine at Lake X and later at X Site..... He is also a multi time National Champion driver and was crew chief for the Serralles offshore...and...Champ boat teams. I would ride with him anywhere..... anytime. He will tell you that this happened so fast....he never had time to react.


The point here is....... Neither John nor I are "good enough" to drive a 100+ mph cat or vee above 100 mph without a Life Jacket and lanyard.........

Neither are you.

T2x

[Sean Stinson]

One more question Augie.......

What exactly is a Fu$K? It seems to have something to do with money.

Anytime I used the fu$k it usually involved strippers and a VIP room and therefore money came into play heavily!!!!!

[cuda]

I read somewhere that as many people drowned falling out of stationary boats as they do moving ones. Cant find the article at the moment.

I don't understand your point. Does that mean if the boat is moving VERY fast, are you LESS likely to fall out of it??????????

[cuda]

If there's another study about boating and drowning out there, I'm not aware of it. The USCG is typically the first, last and only word on the topic. Federal law requres that drownings be reported to them. They maintain and publish the data.

It stands to reason though that alot of people drown for reasons other than a collision or moving mishap. Swimming, peeing off the transom or just losing balance and falling in are all in that basket of possibilities. Being alone most likely increases the chances of drowning substantially.

By the same token, I believe the odds of someone drowning in any of the above scenarios increases the odds of drowning exponetialy, it they aren't wearing lifejackets.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[cuda]

I threw that out there because I have been injured and I know what broken bones feel like! I'm not very tough, but I do like to push limits, and I have been bitten a few times. So was the skull comment supposed to insinuate that I am not very bright????

Yes it was. Now, do you think I'm more or less likely to go boating and "push the limits" after you tell me how broken bones feel. I've broken several bones myself, but never because I wanted to "push the limits", but I assume a broken bone feels like a broken bone...............you're just a WHOLE LOT LESS likely to drown because of those broken bones, so have at it. People will weep at your funeral, but that doesn't matter to you, because you'll be DEAD!
Edit: After rereading your post, you've been thrown out, and yet you still don't wear a lifejacket, so maybe you're right not trying to prove you're tough, but you may want mix in a brainscan, because your elevator isn't reaching the top floor.

[cuda]

Cuda, I empathize with your situation and don’t envy your stay in the hospital, nor the reason for it.

However, don’t arrogantly assume that I am being cavalier and have not seen my share of injury and death at the hands of stupid mistakes. There is nothing cavalier about my stance on this topic. I just don’t agree life vests need to be worn at all times. And again, most importantly, I feel discussing how you and others feel vests should be worn at all times, only sets to hinder and restrict our hobby further. And again, I take personal calculated risk; weighing the totality of the circumstances. I don’t personally believe in “absolutes” and that belief carries over into this topic.

I (as well as 40flatdeck) only gave similar circumstances of doing things that were not 100% safe, to give examples of the many and varied types of things in this life that I (& others) experienced that were not always safe. And to live this life to the fullest, sometimes risks are taken. I however, don’t appreciate your snide comments (gargle with drano and floss with barbed wire) because some may disagree with your stance on the subject.

And here is a random thought….If you are really concerned for other people safety, why not campaign to never run at these high speeds. I’ve said it over and over, a life vest is not going to save your life in a collision, stuff or roll at 150 mph, it is only going to make it easy for the search and rescue to recover your body. Hence, going these speeds is yet again, another example of calculated risk. But I don’t see you on here shaking your fist at those that choose to go those speeds that will most likely cause the collision that will cause the major injury or death (with or with out life vest). The Pammy skater, Nashville Katz/Flash Gordon, Outerlimits at Smoke on the Water…All recent examples of deaths at high speed with life vests on.

You say, a collision with out a vest on will cause regulation and legislation, I say, doesn’t matter if your vest is on or not at these speeds. There will be lawsuits, there will be insurance hikes, there will be cancelations of events, etc. And those insurance, events and lawsuits will be on these boards pulling these types of threads to add fodder to their agenda.

So by all means, continue to discuss this topic that may at some time be used against all of us in some courtroom. But my opinion has not changed on tghis subject and I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind to wear vests…But I’m done trying to make you guys see my point that sdiscussing this on an open forum is the ultimate stupidity.

No offense taken or implied, but excuse me if I call BS!

[Tank]

A) My Motto is "The Majority of people are almost always wrong"....

Doesn't change the fact the majority of boaters (all boaters) don't wear life vests.

B) It would be nice to believe that the media and political types are monitoring our website, but the fact is they don't until somebody(s) get('s) killed. They are too busy ignoring Nationwide Tea Parties to pay attention to us. Deaths on the water are exponentially more potent weapons for politicians to point at us than anything written in these hallowed E-halls. IMHO.

Couldn't disagree with you more (except for the part that it takes something news worthy for people to surf forums like this for information). There were quotes from OSO in the media just recently about a well-known Engine builder who was arrested for child molest. The media was sifting through the various threads of all his friends that came to his defense.

And if you honestly think lawyers and insurance investigators (those that have the ear of the lawmakers for monetary reasons) don't read through these forums, you are sorely mistaken. If you don't take my word for it, just contact Steve Schuble and ask him how many times he's had subpoenas served for forum information.

Final point....I don't mind helmet, life jacket and lanyard laws, I lived by them for years in racing. I do mind putting speed limits on wide open lakes and coastal estuaries because of "accidents" and "safety issues".

Well, here we vary greatly in opinion. I do mind helmet, life jacket and lanyard laws. I don't race, nor have the time or patience to do such. If I did race, I'd wear a life jacket and helmet do to the need to push driver and equipment to the breaking point at times. This is another example of common sense, measuring the totality of the circumstances and calculating the risk.

The point here is....... Neither John nor I are "good enough" to drive a 100+ mph cat or vee above 100 mph without a Life Jacket and lanyard.........

Neither are you.

Never said I was.


Frankly, I disagree whole-heartedly that boating collisions at high speeds will actually affect legislation when it comes to mandated life vest laws. (I think it will more likely mandate speed limit laws). The number of high performance boating collisions that have deaths or major injuries (with or with out vests) is just to low to support any politicians agenda against performance boats. The one or two a year fatal boating collisions involving high performance boats, pales in comparison to the thousands of boating related deaths a year involving various other types of boats.

Matter of fact, I can't actually think of a recent high speed fatal boating crash where life vests WEREN'T worn! Please elnlighten me on a recent (past 5 years) collision that involved a fatality at high speeds where the victim was not wearing a vest.

It is easy to say that high-speed boating collisions grab headlines due to the fact that we are a tight nit community and every boating related wreck, whether fatal or not is reported on these boards. But the majority of all boating wrecks are reported in one way or another by the media and grab media attention, whether it's a 19' Boston whaler 50 miles offshore with NFL player on board or it's a 40 Skater that rolls during a poker run; sensationalism sells news.

So in the end, I strongly disagree that James, I or the countless other high performance boating enthusiasts that opt to use discression when wearing their life vests will affect any legislation having to do with restricting high performance boating.

But I do still believe that voicing demands on an open forum for all to wear life vests when operating a boat will do nothing but add fuel to the fire when the fire comes.

I don't attempt to take away or disregard your knowledge or experiences; I know they are both long and distinguished. I understand your point of view, I just don't agree with it 100%. So I'm content to say I can respectfully agree to disagree with you, and I’ll leave it at that.

[Tank]

No offense taken or implied, but excuse me if I call BS!

Call BS in regards to which part? Call BS? Or disagree? Those are two completely different things.

[T2x]

So I'm content to say I can respectfully agree to disagree with you, and I’ll leave it at that.

Fair enough............

Let's start this debate again after the next fatality.

[Tank]

Fair enough............

Let's start this debate again after the next fatality.

The next fatality that I gaurantee will have a life vest on.