Anyone taking odds on the auto industry bail-out?

[DollaBill]

It would be a waste of money. It's like trying to save a typewriter company in todays tech market. And, yes I'm aware of the job losses etc. Thats horrible and I hate to see people effected, but the reality is those workers were making too much for the past 40 years.

OK, whats your opinion?

[Buoy]

It really is, how far reaching this problem will be?
All the other industry's that supply the auto industry.
I think of one that is very near to me and I've been involved in - thin film coatings.
Although I work in Rx optics, they use the same type of coatings on the lenses (head/tail lamps) and glass on cars. That is a much larger part of the industry, as well as in tech stuff (LCD screens).
Auto industry shuts down, it takes other sectors with it.
Yes, the Auto industry has been overpaid for a long, long, time. Thank your Union.

[Trim'd Up]

I agree on the overpaid thing.
I see it being a huge blow to the country if the auto industry goes down though. All of the supporting industry, then the people in those sectors can't buy anything which will hurt other industries and on and on. It is going to get real bad. I don't think there is any way around it though. The country needs a good douching, but it is really going to hurt. We have gotten way to fat and lazy in this country to compete globally. I don't think we can spend our way out this time.

[MarylandMark]

The country needs a good douching, but it is really going to hurt.

+1

Rebuild the economy from the bottom up.

Most in this country aren't in the position to buy a car any time soon and most likely it won't be one from the Big 3 when they do.

[Cash Bar]

Auto, Airline, Construction and Steelworker Unions(and others) have all served a purpose.

The problem is that purpose was accomplished years ago and now they are a burden on the economy.

[fund razor]

Full blooded capitalist here....
I have spent the last 20 years bad mouthing the auto unions for what they and the democrats did to the rust belt, northwest Ohio, and Detroit (Most of Michigan.)
I was among the first to realize a couple of years ago... while working in health care finance... that GM had become the largest provider of health care in the US.
I hate bailouts. I love accountability. I love it Karma.

I don't want any more taxes and I LOVE the free market system.

But most of the people who will be hurt, BAD by an uncontrolled collapse of the big three would have had nothing to do with it. (Myself working in the Detroit market included... for purposes of full disclosure.)

I am surprised to know that I support this particular bailout.
But I do.

Bail em out.

The banks and the big three. That's all... I would even let the airlines fail. But not the financial and industrial sectors.

[DollaBill]

Full blooded capitalist here....
I have spent the last 20 years bad mouthing the auto unions for what they and the democrats did to the rust belt, northwest Ohio, and Detroit (Most of Michigan.)
I was among the first to realize a couple of years ago... while working in health care finance... that GM had become the largest provider of health care in the US.
I hate bailouts. I love accountability. I love it Karma.

I don't want any more taxes and I LOVE the free market system.

But most of the people who will be hurt, BAD by an uncontrolled collapse of the big three would have had nothing to do with it. (Myself working in the Detroit market included... for purposes of full disclosure.)

I am surprised to know that I support this particular bailout.
But I do.

Bail em out.

The banks and the big three. That's all... I would even let the airlines fail. But not the financial and industrial sectors.

Here's how I see it Fund (then off for sushi and a martini so I'm done for the evening )

I disagree with the thought that the people being hurt had nothing to with and/or aren't responsible for their own fate. Did they ever sit back and say "what if"? I don't think so. Should they have? He!! yes. Period.

If you were/are a union worker and had the best blue color job on the planet and DECIDED to ride out that path and be there 30 years and have your healthcare/pension/etc YOU MADE A DECISION. Just like the rest of us. If you never thought about it your just not that smart. Darwinism cleans up once again.

You make your bed, you lie in it. PERIOD. I've made some dumb mistakes and paid dearly. But in the end they were MY decisions. Man up, accept responsibilty for ones life and move on the next chapter.

I know you Fund and I know that you don't expect anything from anyone so I don't why you think nobody should get hurt in this. TTYT bro.

[glassdave]

Here's how I see it Fund (then off for sushi and a martini so I'm done for the evening )

I disagree with the thought that the people being hurt had nothing to with and/or aren't responsible for their own fate. Did they ever sit back and say "what if"? I don't think so. Should they have? He!! yes. Period.

If you were/are a union worker and had the best blue color job on the planet and DECIDED to ride out that path and be there 30 years and have your healthcare/pension/etc YOU MADE A DECISION. Just like the rest of us. If you never thought about it your just not that smart. Darwinism cleans up once again.

You make your bed, you lie in it. PERIOD. I've made some dumb mistakes and paid dearly. But in the end they were MY decisions. Man up, accept responsibilty for ones life and move on the next chapter.

I know you Fund and I know that you don't expect anything from anyone so I don't why you think nobody should get hurt in this. TTYT bro.

agreed 100% . . . . so many people want to blame their fate on someone else. I'm not saying people done get caught in the crossfire but most can see hand writing on the the wall long before it happens.

[fund razor]

agreed 100% . . . . so many people want to blame their fate on someone else. .

I know. It drives me nuts. Maybe my worst pet peeve.

I'm not saying people done get caught in the crossfire but most can see hand writing on the the wall long before it happens.

From what I can tell.... you and I are both in the path of the regional tsunami from a big three collapse. I know that you are fairly mobile... but this region, including the neighborhoods of our childhood homes... will go under and we will dam near need to flee. Think mad max. Chain link from Bowling Green to Waterford.

[glassdave]

I know. It drives me nuts. Maybe my worst pet peeve.



From what I can tell.... you and I are both in the path of the regional tsunami from a big three collapse. I know that you are fairly mobile... but this region, including the neighborhoods of our childhood homes... will go under and we will dam near need to flee. Think mad max. Chain link from Bowling Green to Waterford.

yea . . . it could get pretty ugly. Luckily i derive probably 80% of by biz from eslewhere. I do very little local work and when i do its insurance related. I grew up in Rossford and would hate to see it go downhill its a good little town, still seems ok though.

[fund razor]

If we can't save the big three.... let's at least kick out the illegals so that college graduates in the US can get (some) landscaping jobs.

[MarylandMark]

11/17/08:

Honda opens new plant in Indiana hiring over 1K workers w/average wage of $18.51/hr with 900 more set to start in the Spring!

In the US Honda/Toyota/Nissan employ 113K people; Big 3 emply 239K

1/08 thru 10/08:

Big 3 sold 5,496,270 = 23 cars per person
H/T/N sold 4,054,494 = 36 cars per person

Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers.

[inbetween]

That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers

Add benefits to that figure and my calculator starts to smoke

[fund razor]

That's a great post.
Proves that cars can be built here using the right business model.

Now we can bail them out. They can be the new Kentucky.

[fund razor]

I don't know what TTYT means.

But I know how you feel Bill. I wonder though... if you are really hip to the extent that the ripples will travel... and how many totally innocent people who screamed against the stupidity in the auto industry....like me... will be screwed and on the doorstep of every town with a half a job open.
Do you really want me living on your living room couch?????

Have a good martini. I am jealous.

[jayboat]

I don't know what TTYT means.

I'm gonna guess: "talk to you tomorrow"

[fund razor]

I'm gonna guess: "talk to you tomorrow"

Ok... You kids are so hip. I have never texted.

Gotta get my post count up too.

[jayboat]

Ok... You kids are so hip. I have never texted.

Gotta get my post count up too.

I hardly ever text... I'm just good with acronyms, and occasionally I get lucky.

[Tommy Gun]

No bailout without MAJOR concessions from UAW. I cannot accept that my hard earned money may be going to pay for some early UAW retirees health care to bridge the gap until they are medicare eligible. Ridiculous. I saw that the employee benefit cost in an american vehicle is $1,200+/- and in a Toyota $300 +/-. This is part of the reason they cannot compete.

[fund razor]

I still hate bailouts, and love martinis.... so we should be cool.. I can get a storage space for my stuff... and I will be dragging the Brave.

Oh... and I have a couple of killer audio systems.