Roll Call

[XtremeRacing]

How many SVL would truly be willing to commit to racing in 2011, if there was a solid and fair set of rules in place ?

We hear a lot of talk about the org's coming out with rules for 2011, but no mention of who would race. This will not be an easy process, and at this point not really sure there will be a class willing to race.

Vance made a very good point...if things dont change and the process for inspection gets in the to hard to do pile no org will be intersted in dealling with it. Not that they dont want to, it will just take to much time and man power. Its almost like the tail trying to wagg the dog.

SCL is running the same Merc 525 with the same ECM rule as the SVL in SBI and it doesnt seem to be a proble for the SCL. So i guess the question is that is it the ECM"s that is the problem or is it the racers in SVL?

I have spoke to a lot of racers, engine builder, boat manufactures, and companies that supply different type of data equipment. There is no reason why this cant work, but like always it is up to the racers to want it to work. There is always a hundred reason why it wont work instead of making it work.

Looking for some positive in put PLEASE

[Steve Miklos]

We are in.


I understand why SBI went to an open ECM rule and applaud them for realizing that they are very difficult to tech. The problem with an open ECM is cost. Simply put RPM is expensive. A 2007 or later 525 can make just at or near 620 HP with the best ECM. The additional RPM (6000-6200)and Torque reduces useful life of an engine to about 30 hours before you need a minimum of new lifters and valve springs. With a sealed engine that is a $2,000.00 job.

The additional output is also harder on Outdrives etc. My only fear is that few will be willing to fund the increase in budget.

SBI put there best foot forward in KW and in my opinion showed the SVL's if we can follow a reasonable program SBI will support it.

I am also confident OPA can and will do the same.

If the SVL's wanted to have a conference call to talk about data collection (nothing else so we stay on track!) I would be willing to host it and do the follow up. This does not mean SBI or OPA would mandate data loggers it would just be an informational session only.

Steve

[XtremeRacing]

Steve,

If you get any interest from any of the other teams, please include me on the conference call.

[imco offshore]

Frank I,m not taunting you letter ,,but ,,if all those things you are talking about were in place ,,then I would guess ,,everyone who owns an SVL would race, thats why thay own an SVL.. now on the other hand if your looking for a commitment for SBI ,,you might want to wait untill the smoke clears ,before you ask that question,,not many are happy with the slap on the butt,,fountain got,(moved one position) I,d be willing to bet if it were any body else ,,well ,,i,ll leave it at that,,

[XtremeRacing]

Not looking for a commitment we know that doesnt work and changes by the day. Just trying to see who is truly interested in racing, and who isnt.

[Wreckdoctor]

I think George said it very well, and I agree, if we own an Svl, we want to race. All the teams that ran this year obviously want to race, if we came out this season and put up with all the bs, I'm pretty sure given better rules and enforcement by offs that at a minimum the guys racing this season would be out there, and I know if as George also stated, the smoke clears, there are a whole lot more that want to come race, that are just waiting to see how the off season goes,

Personally I like the talk we are having as a group and feel confident we will be the strongest group on the course next season.

[heater63]

Steve I would like to be involved in that conference call mainly for educational purposes.I promise I will keep my mouth shut! No George,I dont have an SVL! YET!!lol

[Steve Miklos]

Steve I would like to be involved in that conference call mainly for educational purposes.I promise I will keep my mouth shut! No George,I dont have an SVL! YET!!lol

I have no problem with that. If you want PM me your number and I will call you if you have any immediate questions or just want to start testing.
Thanks
Steve

[XtremeRacing]

From the conversation I have had cost seems to be a big factor, so it will be one of our goals to keep it simple and as economical as possible.

We will put a conference call together soon to get what ever positive in put any SVL owner has.All your idea will and concerns will be taken into consideration.There are 4 registered SBI SVL from this past worlds.

We are also talking to Engine builder, and Prop companies to help with the inspection process.We all have to be open to change for the betterment of the sport we know more of the same is not going to work.

[Phantom1]

We all have to be open to change for the betterment of the sport we know more of the same is not going to work.

com·pro·mise
n.
1. A settlement of differences in which each party makes concessions.

2. Something that combines qualities or elements of different things:

[XtremeRacing]

com·pro·mise
n.
1. A settlement of differences in which each party makes concessions.

2. Something that combines qualities or elements of different things:

[Steve Miklos]

The key elements to make SVL a class with high participation are things we all know and want.

1. A fair and legal playing field
2. A good solid schedule
3. Cost containment. Simply put there are plenty of people who want to race SVL. The problem is there are few who can afford a full season at this time. Good solid rules and some small vendor help could build the entry list.
4. The careful integration of new products under the most controlled circumstances.

Steve

[heater63]

Steve you forgot #5
20-30ish blonde about 5'5 with lots of money

[extras]

I would like to be part of that call.

[Steve Miklos]

I would like to be part of that call.

You got it. Anybody want to set a date?
Steve

[Ratickle]

We are in.


I understand why SBI went to an open ECM rule and applaud them for realizing that they are very difficult to tech. The problem with an open ECM is cost. Simply put RPM is expensive. A 2007 or later 525 can make just at or near 620 HP with the best ECM. The additional RPM (6000-6200)and Torque reduces useful life of an engine to about 30 hours before you need a minimum of new lifters and valve springs. With a sealed engine that is a $2,000.00 job.

The additional output is also harder on Outdrives etc. My only fear is that few will be willing to fund the increase in budget.

SBI put there best foot forward in KW and in my opinion showed the SVL's if we can follow a reasonable program SBI will support it.

I am also confident OPA can and will do the same.

If the SVL's wanted to have a conference call to talk about data collection (nothing else so we stay on track!) I would be willing to host it and do the follow up. This does not mean SBI or OPA would mandate data loggers it would just be an informational session only.

Steve

True but that's why, in the rules, maximum rpm has to be addressed; like the 5500 for the merc and the 5600 for the vortec was, and it must be measured with an approved data logger. Then a reprogrammed ecm does not make a ton more hp with the limited rpm. And you can open it up to other engine manufacturers, and boat builders, with a parity rpm clause in the rules.

Also have to have;

Drive height rule - even with the planing surface
Prop diameter rule - 15 3/4 max
Restrictor plate possibly - a thin sheet that an inspector can pull if needed at a race in about 5 minutes. Limit breathing.
Exhaust rule - Just to limit the breathing of the engine.
Length - min/max
Weight - min
Width - min, two places - transom and at widest place
Height - min, two places, transom and at tallest point
Hidden water weight - How to police?

[Ratickle]

Or everyone could just be required to use the P1 type strain guage and all the engine rules and requirements go away.......

[Steve Miklos]

Or everyone could just be required to use the P1 type strain guage and all the engine rules and requirements go away.......

I spoke with Nigel Hook (Lucas Oil) about this. In Europe they were able to finis the project after Asif bailed and are currently using the devices. They like them and feel they are accurate.

I spoke with him about us having a lose alignment with them and possibly running the same hardware in OPA and SBI if the sanctioning body's allowed for it. He thought it might be possible. I will call him for a follow up.

I know Ilmor has been involved in Europe I would value there input on what they have experienced.

Steve