If you could..............

[ILMORdude]

......Tell any boat, engine, drive, etc. manufacturer what product(s) to release to boost the marine market, what would it be? Could be a good discussion and you never know who lurks on the forums.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Might be a good time to build the Bullet 130 with an evironmental friendly outboard. Hell maybe an inboard would work well for this 12'10 Deep Vee Offshore that can really run offshore... :sifone:

See the SLIDESHOW how these boats took to the ocean. CLICK HERE !!! (http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/p660007170/slideshow)



.

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p933916566.jpg

[Dreamer]

new cig glad made from a cutdown 39

[DAREDEVIL]

41 SACCENTI with staggered 725 ILMOR'S and drives , plus canopy and cut down a notch to race in SUPER V UNLIMITED and the exact same boat as plessure version with cabin and PR boat !!!!! YEAH BABY !!!!!

[stecz20]

41 SACCENTI with staggered 725 ILMOR'S and drives , plus canopy and cut down a notch to race in SUPER V UNLIMITED and the exact same boat as plessure version with cabin and PR boat !!!!! YEAH BABY !!!!!

i agree with you for once......:willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

[Tom A.]

Ilmor to release the Indy drive as a stand alone replacement for the Bravo Xr Drive.

[Trim'd Up]

Ilmor to release the Indy drive as a stand alone replacement for the Bravo Xr Drive.
at the same price point as an XR.:leaving:

[catastrophe]

i agree with you for once......:willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

Dont be so obvious!!!!!!!!!!!

[Magic Medicine]

at the same price point as an XR.:leaving:

:sifone::sifone::sifone:

[LaughingCat]

Put a full cabin in the new Cig Gladiator. Love the seated-cockpit set-up.

Could do a large hatch with stairway from top deck. Open like an engine hatch with grab-rail on side.

I'd pay the higer price AND put more power to offset the weight issue. That would be a KILLER package.

[C_Spray]

Ilmor to release the Indy drive as a stand alone replacement for the Bravo Xr Drive. (Trimmed up): At the same price point as an XR.Funny man. A drive with a horsepower capacity somewhere between an NXT and a #6 for the price of a Bravo.... ROTFLMAO!

It's a great idea, though!!!

How about:

Dealers that not only really know about the products that they sell, but that actually care about great customer service.
Engines, drives, and tabs that completely do away with all these silly, P.I.T.A. Morse cables that we have to run through the boat. In this day and age of electronics and fly-by wire, there has got to be an electronic solution for drive/tab position sensing.
A simpler hydraulic system so you don't have to have a separate pump, reservoir, solenoids and relays for every appliance on the transom. Just one pump with an accumulator and a group of moog valves.
A programmable trim system with several settings including a default program for coming on plane. The system would sense boat pitch angle, throttle position, engine load and engine speed, then automatically move the drives and tabs to get everything going as smoothly and quickly as possible. The settings could be customized by the user to their preference, or set to "learn" the best combination. This is just the next step from the joystick control systems that are already out there.
Once we go to fly-by-wire throttles, an active throttle program that cuts power when it senses no load on the input shaft (out of the water) to reduce the chance of breaking something for those of us who are not Bobby Moore or John Tomlinson. On down the road, forward-looking sensors could be used to re-instate power when the boat lands. The Navy is already using this basic technology in active ride-control seats.
Better 12-volt air conditioning systems and the battery technology to run them.
Updated engine technology, like the LS series of GM engines, and lightweight deisels in the 500-700 hp range.

[DaveP]

How about a blow up doll that will stay in the boat with Stecz and not fly out at speed? :)

[Ratickle]

How about a blow up doll that will stay in the boat with Stecz and not fly out at speed? :)

I knew that was you driving......:sifone:

[OldSchool]

Good grief Chuck. You sound like an Engineer!!!:rofl::rofl::):seeya:


Funny man. A drive with a horsepower capacity somewhere between an NXT and a #6 for the price of a Bravo.... ROTFLMAO!

It's a great idea, though!!!

How about:

Dealers that not only really know about the products that they sell, but that actually care about great customer service.
Engines, drives, and tabs that completely do away with all these silly, P.I.T.A. Morse cables that we have to run through the boat. In this day and age of electronics and fly-by wire, there has got to be an electronic solution for drive/tab position sensing.
A simpler hydraulic system so you don't have to have a separate pump, reservoir, solenoids and relays for every appliance on the transom. Just one pump with an accumulator and a group of moog valves.
A programmable trim system with several settings including a default program for coming on plane. The system would sense boat pitch angle, throttle position, engine load and engine speed, then automatically move the drives and tabs to get everything going as smoothly and quickly as possible. The settings could be customized by the user to their preference, or set to "learn" the best combination. This is just the next step from the joystick control systems that are already out there.
Once we go to fly-by-wire throttles, an active throttle program that cuts power when it senses no load on the input shaft (out of the water) to reduce the chance of breaking something for those of us who are not Bobby Moore or John Tomlinson. On down the road, forward-looking sensors could be used to re-instate power when the boat lands. The Navy is already using this basic technology in active ride-control seats.
Better 12-volt air conditioning systems and the battery technology to run them.
Updated engine technology, like the LS series of GM engines, and lightweight deisels in the 500-700 hp range.

[Chris]

It's not products or practices that have moved the boating industry to its present state. It's politicians and big banking. And when the economy rights itself, everyone will go back to where they were and forget the pain they inflicted on us.

You know how I know this? I've seen it now happen several times. And nothing ever happens. We punished the last bunch of clowns by putting in the only people we could find that were worse than their predecessors.

[DaveP]

I knew that was you driving......:sifone:

Thats classic!

[Ratickle]

Thats classic!

Rob, RPM, made it for the Stecz "My Life" thread when we did that one. :)

[Ratickle]

Here's the issue to me.

All boats are a compromise, so, lessen the comprimise. The technology is there, but we still build major comprimises.

Heavy vs Light for calm or rough water. Lay it up light with the best glass/core - put in a series of bladder water tanks for weight add/distribution when needed.

Flat deck vs stay overnight cabin. Build it flat with a hydraulic pop up cabin deck.

Big block or small block. CuIn's are good - go all aluminum with the new coatings that are available. Small block weight, big block torque. Closed cooling standard.

Length. Have no solution that fits all. But a 32 to 36 with an 8' 6" beam is easier for towing, in-out, and launching than a 42 to 46 with 9'6" beam. And they handle much better in rough stuff than a 22 to 26 with 7' beam.

[TCEd]

A simpler boat. Less bling, less maintenance, better component access. Something like a Sutphen and other small builders should/could sell in the emerging market. Trouble is the new buyer sees bling and may not understand the upkeep bling requires.
ed

[ZBODaytona]

Updated engines is a good one, especially the diesel...

[Cash Bar]

new cig glad made from a cutdown 39

It's gonna be at least $500k so why do you care? I can't buy that either.

A nice redo of the ZRC with a wrap shield and stock(Ilmor/Merc)power at +/- $200k would work.

[LaughingCat]

At boat shows, combine the hand's-on displays with vendors who hire naked chicks.

[Rik]

How about:


Engines, drives, and tabs that completely do away with all these silly, P.I.T.A. Morse cables that we have to run through the boat. In this day and age of electronics and fly-by wire, there has got to be an electronic solution for drive/tab position sensing.
A simpler hydraulic system so you don't have to have a separate pump, reservoir, solenoids and relays for every appliance on the transom. Just one pump with an accumulator and a group of moog valves.
A programmable trim system with several settings including a default program for coming on plane. The system would sense boat pitch angle, throttle position, engine load and engine speed, then automatically move the drives and tabs to get everything going as smoothly and quickly as possible. The settings could be customized by the user to their preference, or set to "learn" the best combination. This is just the next step from the joystick control systems that are already out there.
Once we go to fly-by-wire throttles, an active throttle program that cuts power when it senses no load on the input shaft (out of the water) to reduce the chance of breaking something for those of us who are not Bobby Moore or John Tomlinson. On down the road, forward-looking sensors could be used to re-instate power when the boat lands. The Navy is already using this basic technology in active ride-control seats.


Most of this already exist and is very common. You just have to get out of the Mercury world.

Fly by wire throttles are very common for years, same goes for electronic trim indicators and a programmable trim system for the engine loads are all available today.

[rschap1]

They can give me a free boat to clear out inventory...and maybe I will go on to boost the aftermarket parts sales (maybe...) buy a little fuel (little) and support local businesses and restraunts that near areas that I boat near.

Is Formula, Fountain, and Sunsation listening??

Oh I hope so.

[MahopacMarine]

41 SACCENTI with staggered 725 ILMOR'S and drives , plus canopy and cut down a notch to race in SUPER V UNLIMITED and the exact same boat as plessure version with cabin and PR boat !!!!! YEAH BABY !!!!!

I'm with ya on this one!!!!

[C_Spray]

Most of this already exists and is very common. You just have to get out of the Mercury world...
My point exactly, although even Mercury has had Smartcraft out for some time now and had to do a lot of fly-by wire work to bring the Axius sterndrive joystick to market. Volvo Penta's EVC (Electronic Vessel Control) network is well-proven, and they are now offering "glass-cockpit" displays that monitor not only engine parameters, but other boat systems as well. Better yet, EVC is compatible with NMEA2000 network devices, so it can communicate with chartplotters, etc.

Since Ilmor did their own proprietary ECM for the new Gen 4/Indy packages, only IlmorDude really knows what they might spring on us. I know the Indy drive is designed to use electronic rather than cable position sensing.

Engine-wise, I cant' believe that the LS engines have been ignored for so long. Since everything is close-cooled these days, corrosion issues should not be a big concern.

Still, looking back at the last 10-15 years, it's impressive how fast 38' boats are going with a pair of 525's now. Not bad at all...

Still, I'd love to see a complete 600 hp diesel/sterndrive package at 1200 lbs or less...

[2112]

How about having some strong competition for Mercury @ construction level. ie several competing choices of power/drives when building the boat.
.

[phragle]

41 SACCENTI with staggered 725 ILMOR'S and drives , plus canopy and cut down a notch to race in SUPER V UNLIMITED and the exact same boat as plessure version with cabin and PR boat !!!!! YEAH BABY !!!!!

Same here, but I want the Ilmor blower motors putting out around 1000hp... sure they dont exist, but they have to be on the drawing board or in the back corner......

[Trim'd Up]

Same here, but I want the Ilmor blower motors putting out around 1000hp... sure they dont exist, but they have to be on the drawing board or in the back corner......

Hennesy has 1000hp and 1200hp packages for the dodge v10. These are twin turbo car engines but it shows what can be done on the platform.

[DAREDEVIL]

Same here, but I want the Ilmor blower motors putting out around 1000hp... sure they dont exist, but they have to be on the drawing board or in the back corner......

YEP,,,as soon as they have them ....LOL i change it !!:sifone:

[JupiterSunsation]

Everything has to get brought in line pricewise. In the past 5-10 years the prices spiraled out of control but the products didn't really change that much. Look at what happens in the car market (most models are re-designed every 5 years or so and price goes up 1 or 2%). With boats the prices go up 5% a year with no changes being done other than paint/trim options etc.

Skip bragged in one interview he doubled the price of his most popular boat (38 TG) since he took over, yet in reality the boat is unchanged with the exception of a dash change/interior options. Reggie hasn't updated the 42 in many years and even sells many versions of the same hull (42 EX, 42 PR, 42 LTG) but where are the economies of scale?

Mercury has made bravo drives/#6's for many years yet they keep going up in cost? Why? No R + D is being done on these products, steel is about the same cost, labor has gone up but why hasn't this product become cheaper? The 502 motor is proabably the most popular marine motor ever built yet they cost more now than ever before.


Any boat maker, part maker can be analyzed this way but the issue is that the consumer is getting squeezed by increases in insurance, fuel, storage, finance costs on top of ridiculous boat prices and never seen before depreciation rates. If the industry doesn't figure this mess out then there will be no manufacturers left........

[DAREDEVIL]

Everything has to get brought in line pricewise. In the past 5-10 years the prices spiraled out of control but the products didn't really change that much. Look at what happens in the car market (most models are re-designed every 5 years or so and price goes up 1 or 2%). With boats the prices go up 5% a year with no changes being done other than paint/trim options etc.

Skip bragged in one interview he doubled the price of his most popular boat (38 TG) since he took over, yet in reality the boat is unchanged with the exception of a dash change/interior options. Reggie hasn't updated the 42 in many years and even sells many versions of the same hull (42 EX, 42 PR, 42 LTG) but where are the economies of scale?

Mercury has made bravo drives/#6's for many years yet they keep going up in cost? Why? No R + D is being done on these products, steel is about the same cost, labor has gone up but why hasn't this product become cheaper? The 502 motor is proabably the most popular marine motor ever built yet they cost more now than ever before.


Any boat maker, part maker can be analyzed this way but the issue is that the consumer is getting squeezed by increases in insurance, fuel, storage, finance costs on top of ridiculous boat prices and never seen before depreciation rates. If the industry doesn't figure this mess out then there will be no manufacturers left........

U should tell that SUNSATION too !!!

But you'r absolutley correct for the most part.

[Roger 1]

i agree with you for once......:willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

With a set of tailfins and dual swept back antennas. Nothin' says cool like a set of tailfins with dual swept back antennas....:cool:

[JupiterSunsation]

U should tell that SUNSATION too !!!

But you'r absolutley correct for the most part.

Most people could identify with the examples I listed........Sunsation and Nortech have been the most innovative in the last 24 months when it comes to new models/changes. If people like the new models/changes they are willing to pay for them......Note that Sunsation did introduce the S line of boats that were lighter on paint/bling and priced accordingly.

Anything boating related could use a pricing rollback......

[FastTimes]

It's gonna be at least $500k so why do you care? I can't buy that either.

A nice redo of the ZRC with a wrap shield and stock(Ilmor/Merc)power at +/- $200k would work.

Now that sounds nice, a ZRC with a wrap around ! ! !

[ILMORdude]

Since Ilmor did their own proprietary ECM for the new Gen 4/Indy packages, only IlmorDude really knows what they might spring on us. I know the Indy drive is designed to use electronic rather than cable position sensing.



Drive has electronic trim sensor with an LED read out. Very cool piece. Red lights except the middle two are Blue for your run position. The "ICE" as its called has some good stuff going on. And im in for a 41 Saccenti also, when i hit the mega millions.

[Rik]

How about having some strong competition for Mercury @ construction level. ie several competing choices of power/drives when building the boat.
.

It goes deeper than that. Far deeper.

1st. The OEM has to want to offer something different than they currently do. Take your boat for example. Skip is not going to offer it with anything other than Merc. Not open for discussion even.

2nd, Anyone can play but only the one that pays can succeed. In order to get the manufactures, those with an open mind, to consider a new package they have to match the terms that Mercury has set forth and offer liberal terms on the goods in order to entice the OEM to do the deal

3rd, You have to win public perception. There are only a few things that will sell on the aftermarket and if there is no resale then there is not going to be a sale.

4th , You need to invest into infrastructure in order to support the option.

5th , etc. etc. etc…

[glh]

...what product(s) to release to boost the marine market, what would it be?Education to the masses so they don't believe the news media that promotes a Governmental solutions to our ills and they start thinking for themselves effectively how to earn a living, working and spending again...

If that fails, the solution that works the best I think for increased sales is show us something nice that the people want... Sort of like this....

http://limestonedev.com/tiger/fun/oustairsupgirls.jpg

http://limestonedev.com/tiger/fun/ticfaw426.jpg

http://limestonedev.com/tiger/fun/Ouch.JPG

http://limestonedev.com/tiger/fun/sunset.jpg


I think that couldn't miss.... :drool5:

[C_Spray]

GLH - Those are all acquisitions that will make anyone a poor man in a very short time.


"I bought my wife breast implants for Christmas, and I've had a great time playing with them ever since. I can hardly wait until they put them in." - Ron White

[boostbros]

i think we are bored with the money=famous offshore racer if you have enough bling to buy a 50 foot cat you are assured of at least a top 5 finish ...i found this video intriguing and interesting these high tech high output engines a readily available and cheap i,ll bet this would be a great and fun class Rik could you downsize an arnson? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUTugwF2MY8

[Raylar]

The word Offshore on that You tube Video is a Crack UP! Lets see someone take that little puppy in some three to four footers at speed! Anyone can build fast microboats for calm water! Motorcycle engines ain't gotta get it done! That boat is about as practical as a screen door on a submarine!

As for whats needed in Performance boating -New Hull forms and construction materials and processes that are lighter, less expensive to produce, safe and comfortable for passengers and driver alike, handle well in all water condtions and that don't take mega power to see 80-100mph speeds. Keep it simple! Keep the costs under control! and as they said in the movie-"Build It and They Will Come!!"

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar "Where innovation fuels applications"

[phragle]

less expensive..that always helps, but lighter? how about more dependable... 1000 hp motors have been available off the shelf for some time now.... the technology is out there in one form or another to make a motor that can do that dependably. same with trannies and drives. hoses shouldnt let go etc.... who here would like the new untra light, octa-stepped pringles special that is getting repeaired everytime you want to use it as opposed to a decent riding 80~100 mph boat thats ready to go when you turn the key?

[WFORob]

Prices need to come down. Looked in the latest PB and $650,000 for a 36 MTI with 700SCI's? That's a bit much - and they're not the only ones - every manufacturer has sky high prices these days.

After that, I'd have to say more focus on engine and drive technology and other innovations to make it more fun and comfortable. The STATEMENT air cushioned cockpit comes to mind as a truly innovative design.

[Raylar]

You really want to see expensive boats? air cushoned cockpit! You gotta be kidd'in!
The whole industry needs to remember that to make things less expensive, user friendly and more affordable you have got to remember the "KISS" theory! Keep it Simple Stupid!!

As for $650K to $1mil performance boats, god bless the people who've got the money to plop down for them, they help keep technology and the innovations alive! But please remember these TOP DAWG boats represent less than 3% of the performance boat market by quantity.

The secret and future for the industry is to build affordable, innovative, efficient, fun boats and engines for "MR JOE BOATER"! Your Average performance boater by pocketbook size!

Therin lies the only sustainable successful future in Performance boating!!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

[Dude! Sweet!]

Funny man. A drive with a horsepower capacity somewhere between an NXT and a #6 for the price of a Bravo.... ROTFLMAO!

It's a great idea, though!!!

How about:

Dealers that not only really know about the products that they sell, but that actually care about great customer service.
Engines, drives, and tabs that completely do away with all these silly, P.I.T.A. Morse cables that we have to run through the boat. In this day and age of electronics and fly-by wire, there has got to be an electronic solution for drive/tab position sensing.
A simpler hydraulic system so you don't have to have a separate pump, reservoir, solenoids and relays for every appliance on the transom. Just one pump with an accumulator and a group of moog valves.
A programmable trim system with several settings including a default program for coming on plane. The system would sense boat pitch angle, throttle position, engine load and engine speed, then automatically move the drives and tabs to get everything going as smoothly and quickly as possible. The settings could be customized by the user to their preference, or set to "learn" the best combination. This is just the next step from the joystick control systems that are already out there.
Once we go to fly-by-wire throttles, an active throttle program that cuts power when it senses no load on the input shaft (out of the water) to reduce the chance of breaking something for those of us who are not Bobby Moore or John Tomlinson. On down the road, forward-looking sensors could be used to re-instate power when the boat lands. The Navy is already using this basic technology in active ride-control seats.
Better 12-volt air conditioning systems and the battery technology to run them.
Updated engine technology, like the LS series of GM engines, and lightweight deisels in the 500-700 hp range.


Chuck, have you seen Bill Auberlin's Motec controlled Spectre? Everything is fly by wire and Bill says they are working on a variety of maps that will do things like throttle and trim the boat for the driver... Wild stuff. I shudder to think how much of BMW's money is stuffed into that monster! :sifone:

[Dude! Sweet!]

Oh yah, and I vote for "cheaper" as well. I struggle to get my head around why offshore stuff costs as much as it does. Throw away race boats powered by big block Chevy engines you can build out of parts from Summit, that cost as much as a beach house... Is there a "woefully shaking my head" smiley in here somewhere?

[ILMORdude]

Dude! Sweet!- Love the sig man!! We sold em the race winning engines!

[ILMORdude]

You really want to see expensive boats? air cushoned cockpit! You gotta be kidd'in!
The whole industry needs to remember that to make things less expensive, user friendly and more affordable you have got to remember the "KISS" theory! Keep it Simple Stupid!!

As for $650K to $1mil performance boats, god bless the people who've got the money to plop down for them, they help keep technology and the innovations alive! But please remember these TOP DAWG boats represent less than 3% of the performance boat market by quantity.

The secret and future for the industry is to build affordable, innovative, efficient, fun boats and engines for "MR JOE BOATER"! Your Average performance boater by pocketbook size!

Therin lies the only sustainable successful future in Performance boating!!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Well said Ray..........