History of the speedmaster drive?

[Dunbar 104]

I know a little bit about the #6 and the #3s but what about all the others?

When did they come out?

What did they cost?

What is the differences from one model to the next model?

Where there over lapping models?

How strong are the old ones?

[glassdave]

I know a little bit about the #6 and the #3s but what about all the others?

When did they come out?



right after the Volvo E drive

much like all of Merc's innovations :D :leaving:



I have a really cool ad in an old magazine that shows the #6 when it was the K drive built by Kiekhaffer. If memory serve it was Carl next to it in some kind of safari outfit and i believe it was referred to the Gorilla drive or something like that. Anyone know the story behind that?

[FastDonzi]

I remeber the first full size #6 was Wood (No Sh!t) it was a full sized model. I believe over on S&F theres a thread on history of the speed masters (or something like that) and yeah, check with the patent office, usually when someones patant ran out and it was something merc wanted to use they Pounced on it.

[T2x]

right after the Volvo E drive

much like all of Merc's innovations :D :leaving:



I have a really cool ad in an old magazine that shows the #6 when it was the K drive built by Kiekhaffer. If memory serve it was Carl next to it in some kind of safari outfit and i believe it was referred to the Gorilla drive or something like that. Anyone know the story behind that?

As the story goes and I believe it, Charlie Strang, then VP of engineering at Kiekhaefer Mercury, invented the stern drive and showed it to the old man. Carl wasn't interested so Charlie back doored it through Jim Wynne to Volvo. After Volvo proved there was a market, Mercruiser debuted with a much more robust series of drives. Volvo played a little with SSM's but never really made any progress with them. Mercury had significant experience with racing outboard lowers (10 Hurricane "quickies" ( short for Quicksilver) through the speedmasters on the in line 6 outboards). The natural evolution was to build an Offshore Sterndrive Speedmaster and they followed a progression of numbers, 1 through 5. After Carl left Mercury he formed Kiekhaefer Aeromarine and tried to produce a big heavy duty drive (referred to above) which had virtually no acceptance. After his death Fred K. and his team developed the "K Drive" , which, after Kiekhaefer Aeromarine was purchased by Mercury Marine thereby closing the circle, became the #6 drive. Since then it has been upgraded to the dry sump, swept skeg variant available to this day. It is still the standard against which all others are measured and is the reigning "King of the Hill".

Giving Volvo credit for the development of the stern drive to today's standards is probably not merited as they did little more than take a cast off Kiekhaefer Mercury project and introduce it to the public.

P.S. You really don't want to compare the innovations that Mercury has created internally to any other vendor in the marine market. There is absolutely no contest, and second place is so far down the list as to be laughable.

T2x

[Geronimo36]

right after the Volvo E drive

much like all of Merc's innovations :D :leaving:




Giving Volvo credit for the development of the stern drive to today's standards is probably not merited as they did little more than take a cast off Kiekhaefer Mercury project and introduce it to the public.
T2x

Speedmaster aside, Merc ripped-off Volvo's shiftable sterndrive with the Bravo.... :leaving:
http://www.volvo.com/volvopenta/global/en-gb/our_company/press_releases/NewsItemPage.htm?ItemId=57774&sl=en-gb

[Brownie]

I showed the very first Volvo 200 drive on a 16' Donzi at the Jacksonville Boat Show in November 1964. Bill Steele and Joe Swift of Mercury offered me money and Ho's if I would swing by Lake X on the way home. No dice!

[Ratickle]

This looks really interesting.....:)


No can of worms here.....:sifone:

Why the 3, 4, 5, 6, 3A, 6 dry, etc in the speedmaster lineup?

And then of course, the duo-prop/BlackHawk?

And Ben has a boat up there with a SternDrive speedmaster style drive on it.

[Dunbar 104]

Didn't all the i/o speedmasters have an external trans, where the volvos shifted internally?

[Geronimo36]

Didn't all the i/o speedmasters have an external trans, where the volvos shifted internally?

Yes, enter the Bravo 1 in the 80's... lol The Alpha was totally different but the Bravo was almost a direct copy in my opinion.

I guess this is off-topic but having worked on both the Volvo and Bravo in years past, it's pretty interesting to note how similar the shifting mechanism and cone/clutch setup is ;)

The biggest difference between the two is the bravo uses the cable to turn a shaft which has a cam on it and the volvo simply turns the cam.

[Geronimo36]

I showed the very first Volvo 200 drive on a 16' Donzi at the Jacksonville Boat Show in November 1964. Bill Steele and Joe Swift of Mercury offered me money and Ho's if I would swing by Lake X on the way home. No dice!

Nice! :rofl:

[Ratickle]

I showed the very first Volvo 200 drive on a 16' Donzi at the Jacksonville Boat Show in November 1964. Bill Steele and Joe Swift of Mercury offered me money and Ho's if I would swing by Lake X on the way home. No dice!


Nice! :rofl:

Probably were ugly Ho's..........:sifone:

[Geronimo36]

The OMC Stinger was an interesting drive as well.... Unfortunately I didn't get to work on any...

[T2x]

I showed the very first Volvo 200 drive on a 16' Donzi at the Jacksonville Boat Show in November 1964. Bill Steele and Joe Swift of Mercury offered me money and Ho's if I would swing by Lake X on the way home. No dice!


You declined Ho's????????

Boy! They must have been ugly!

[stecz20]

this is gonna be a good thread... never heard this talked about before....

[Nykamp]

The 41 APACHE WARHAWK was the first boat to have the K drives installed, thats the story I was told. Then my boat ALLEZ VITE was one of the next to get them.

[Tank]

WTF is a SSM 1 & 2 drive?? And what do they look like?

The 6 is the big daddy, the drive every other is measured against.

The 3 has smaller internals and the 3A was the result of beefing it up and has basically same internals as the 6 (?). The SSM 5 is a shortened version of the 3A that was built for cats (?).

This is all questions by the way. Just what I've read and heard through out the years.

What's the deal with the SSM4?

Then of course there's the merc TRS which is compared to SSM3's (not 3a's) so I've heard. transmissions and large shafts that handled a good amount of power.

Open for discussion....:sifone:

[Ratickle]

Since we're going on what we've heard, and hopefully the truth will surface,


I thought the 1 and the 2 were both TRS's with a foot change only?

[C_Spray]

We should make a distinction here between the Speedmasters and the shiftable drives.

While comparing Alphas/Bravos/BravoIII's to Volvo products is a valid discussion, that is an entirely different thread. But: While we're on the subject, I guess the credit for "inventing" the stern drive should go to neither Volvo NOR Mercury, but to Charlie Strang. The interesting part is that the cocktail napkin drawing that I have seen purporting to be the concept drawing shows the props facing FORWARD a la Volvo's IPS system. Goes to show how many "new" things have long ago been invented.

The Charlie Strang story (http://www.rbbi.com/folders/pat/isd.htm)

We now take you back to the Speedmaster discussion....

[T2x]

Since we're going on what we've heard, and hopefully the truth will surface,


I thought the 1 and the 2 were both TRS's with a foot change only?

Correct............

[catman]

This looks really interesting.....:)


No can of worms here.....:sifone:

Why the 3, 4, 5, 6, 3A, 6 dry, etc in the speedmaster lineup?

And then of course, the duo-prop/BlackHawk?

And Ben has a boat up there with a SternDrive speedmaster style drive on it.

Dont forget the SSM #7

[T2x]

The OMC Stinger was an interesting drive as well.... Unfortunately I didn't get to work on any...

OMC also had that two cycle drive where they laid a V4 outboard powerhead horizontally inside the boat and hung a sterndrive off the back. The whole thing passed through a big rubber bladder on the transom and when you trimmed it the entire assembly pivoted on the forward motor mounts. ( Later, after a few thousand leaks, I think they actually trimmed the sterndrive alone and at one point I believe they also had an option that rotated the sterndrive so it stuck up behind the boat with the nosecone facing the back seat passengers).It had the electric shift lower unit from the outboards and the only ones I ever saw were installed in boats manufactured by OMC ("The Evinrude boat" a pretty sort of gull wing hull and the "Johnson Boat" aka "The OMC Boat" which was a sort of trimaran/hydro design ala Custom Craft, which was nowhere near as fast as you might imagine).

Rube Goldberg apparently lived in Waukegan for a while.

[cosmic12]

Oh man I remember those Evenrude boats!!!! When I was a kid (I really was I think) there was one next door to me, the windshield was and dash were almost mounted on the rub rail in the bow and it had a huge cockpit and tri-hull. Very strange boat that wasn't worth a chit for sking behind and was slow as slow can get and didn't handle waves very well at all. What a odd ball boat,wish I had pics.
End of Hi-jack sorry:blush5:

[C_Spray]

...Rube Goldberg apparently lived in Waukegan for a while. He may have relocated to Fond du Lac to invent the "L-drive" shortly afterwards. That used an O/B powerhead, but stuck through the bottom of the boat...

[Geronimo36]

OMC also had that two cycle drive where they laid a V4 outboard powerhead horizontally inside the boat and hung a sterndrive off the back. The whole thing passed through a big rubber bladder on the transom and when you trimmed it the entire assembly pivoted on the forward motor mounts. ( Later, after a few thousand leaks, I think they actually trimmed the sterndrive alone and at one point I believe they also had an option that rotated the sterndrive so it stuck up behind the boat with the nosecone facing the back seat passengers).It had the electric shift lower unit from the outboards and the only ones I ever saw were installed in boats manufactured by OMC ("The Evinrude boat" a pretty sort of gull wing hull and the "Johnson Boat" aka "The OMC Boat" which was a sort of trimaran/hydro design ala Custom Craft, which was nowhere near as fast as you might imagine).

Rube Goldberg apparently lived in Waukegan for a while.

Cool!!! How about the old outboards that accomplished forward/reverse by reversing the rotation of the engine!!!!

A little back on track... How about when the racers would cut the skegs off the SSM's to gain speed!:leaving:

[T2x]

Cool!!! How about the old outboards that accomplished forward/reverse by reversing the rotation of the engine!!!!

A little back on track... How about when the racers would cut the skegs off the SSM's to gain speed!:leaving:

Can you imagine how that would work on a step bottom hull?.....Turn the wheel and watch the world spin by........

[summer heat]

Cool!!! How about the old outboards that accomplished forward/reverse by reversing the rotation of the engine!!!!

A little back on track... How about when the racers would cut the skegs off the SSM's to gain speed!:leaving:

That was my first.... A Mercury inline 6 start button was in the throttle/shift lever. Slide her back to kill, push button to start in reverse (you hoped) and back and fourth. Made docking fun.

[Geronimo36]

Can you imagine how that would work on a step bottom hull?.....Turn the wheel and watch the world spin by........
Like a SeaDoo jet boat!!!

[tommymonza]

So where did the idea of the outdrive originate?

[phragle]

http://www.rbbi.com/folders/pat/isd.htm

When Charles Strang was working towards his masters degree at M.I.T. in 1948 he was an avid outboard racing enthusiast. He became interested in mounting an assault on the American outboard speed record (78.121 mph). He realized that horsepower was holding back the record as the largest American OB was the 33.4 HP Evinrude Speedifour.

He found an aluminum car racing engine in Europe called the "Coventry Climax" and was going to mount it to the lower end of an OB and hang it all outside of the boat to be still considered an "outboard." When he discovered it wouldn't be legal, he continued to refine the idea of an automotive engine with an outboard lower unit, but this time with the engine inside the boat and drive unit outside. In his engineering, "invention ledger" he drew various versions of his design and then dated and signed the pages which was M.I.T. procedure. One of those entries in 1948 was for the final version of a modern stern drive complete with the "universal joint" linkage which would ultimately be patented, not by Charlie Strang , but by Jim Wynne. In the explicit drawing he identified the universal torque transmitter by its scientific name, "Hookes Coupling" and labeled and identified the tilt and swivel pin features within the coupling exactly as they would appear on the patent application submitted ten years later by Jim Wynne.
Strang couldn't decide what to call his new drive, he had been a comic book fan in his younger days and remembered a voluptuous siren named Apacinata (Appassionata) Von Climax. Since he had considered joining his drive to the Coventry Climax engine, he named the stern drive the AVC drive.
In the summer of 1951 after working only two weeks for the Kiekhaefer Corporation, Charlie Strang disclosed his idea to Carl Kiekhaefer. These were great times for Carl. He was in transition between the two-cylinder Lightning models and the more powerful four cylinder Thunderbolt models. He was having great success with his 25 horsepower model and was setting his sights on OMC and their even larger horsepower outboards. Strang was passionate about the idea, but Carl wan't the least bit interested. He not only was not interested, but went on to call Strang, nuts and call the idea ridiculous. Then he told Strang it was a "horse _ _ _ _ idea."
Charlie got caught up the all the activities at Kiekhaefer including road racing. He kept thinking about his AVC drive and his new experiences with powerful Chrysler, Ford, and Chevrolet engines being used in stock cars.
In 1955 aboard Kiekhaefer's Beech-18, Charlie Strang and Jim Wynne were flying to Texas to testify in an outboard product liability case. They listened to the Sugar Ray Robinson vs Carl "Bobo" Olson boxing fight on the radio and afterwards the conversation drifted to engineering and the potential speeds of outboard motors. On this flight the greatest conspiracy in the history of the marine industry began.
Charlie sketched up his AVC drive idea who got very excited about it. He talked to Charles "Alex" Alexander about it. "Alex" had been promoted to engineering VP and reported directly to executive VP Charlie Strang. Wynne also reported directly to Strang. A series of secret conversations between Strang, Alexander, and Wynne began discussing the AVC drive and its possibilities. They made the decision to develop the new product themselves, without the knowledge of Carl Kiekhaefer.
Carl and Jim Wynne were close friends at this time (an event involving a woman would end this in 18 months) and he (Jim) was appointed chief engineer of the proving grounds. Charlie was second in command as executive VP, and Alex held the highest engineering position in the company. These three men were actively conspiring to build what would become the most significant product in marine manufacturing behind Carl's back.
In the spring of 1958, Jim Wynne left Kiekhaefer Mercury and in less than 90 days, "invented" the stern drive. Charlie Strang and Charles Alexander remained at Kiekhaefer Mercury and continued to support his development of a prototype AVC drive. A company was formed, Hydro Mechanical Development, headed by Wynne. Unable to raise the huge funds required to tool and produce the drive they began looking for help. In early 1958 they met with John Buehler president of Indiana Gear Works and also the U.S. licensee of the Hamilton Jet Drive of New Zealand. The book tells of the unusual meeting, Buehler was a large man in a boy scout uniform and his huge office had the rear end of animals mounted on the walls with arrows sticking in them. Buehler was convinced that Hamilton Jet Drives were going to take over the industry, so he was not interested.
In Florida, Wynne completed the "cobbled together" prototype in his parents garage. Remembering the importance of secrecy learned from Kiekhaefer, he covered the garage windows and spoke to no one about it until the prototype was completed and tested. He borrowed a 20 foot fiberglass boat from Woody Woodson (founder of Thunder Boat Company in Miami) and installed the new drive. He covered it up and trailered it to Pelican Harbor on the intracoastal waterway in Miami before dawn. After a few trial runs and some adjustments, he was satisfied that the concept would work.
Shortly later John Jarnmark, the New Jersey based general sales manager for Volvo Penta made a routine sales call on Wynne following up on a 80 horsepower engine delivered without the reverse gear. Wynne told him he was working on a new application for the engine that could produce a lot of sales. Jarnmark was interested, but Wynne could not disclose more until filing the patent applications. After they were filed, he invited Jarnmark back and he was very impressed. Jarnmark sent diagrams, photos, and descriptions of the device to Volvo in Sweden.
Wynne was asked by Ole Botved the manufacturer of Botved-Coronet outboard boats and cruisers in Denmark to join him as one of three pilots trying to cross the Atlantic in an outboard boat. He flew to Copenhagen for the preparations and then traveled to Sweden to meet with Harald Wiklund the president of Volvo-Penta from 1949 to 1977. When Jim walked into his office in 1958 he had already been president for 9 years and the company had been growing dramatically. Wiklund was very impressed by the idea. Wynne was still thinking that Charlie Strang would leave Mercury soon and join him in the venture. Now that Volvo was seriously interested, he called Strang. Carl had just proposed that Strang head up a public Kiekhaefer Corporation as president. The war with OMC was in critical stages, and he was very busy; but, he knew the potential of the new drive. If he chose to leave Kiekhaefer, Jim would negotiate to buy Volvo engines at a volume discount, if he stayed Jim would negotiate a license agreement with Volvo for them to produce the drive and market it with their engines. Strang told Wynne, "Jim, do what you want with it."
Wynne met again with Wiklund to proceed to negotiate the licensing agreement. The initial agreement was $7 for each unit produced by Volvo over the lifetime of the patent and 12 1/2 percent of any license income Volvo might receive from other builders. Sales initially faltered and $3.50 per drive was agreed upon. Later Wiklund felt the agreement was too much in Wynne's favor as all he brought was the idea. They had to develop and produce it.
Strang and Wynne agreed that Wynne would receive credit for the invention of the drive to protect Strang's position with Carl Kiekhaefer. They understood that Strang could be held liable for disclosure of the idea while still on Kiekhaefer's payroll. The bond of secrecy between Strang, Wynne, and Alexander would last over 30 years.
At the conclusion of the outboard crossing of the Atlantic, Wynne appeared on the TV program, "I've Got A Secret" and stumped the panel. "Little did they realize, Jim Wynne and Charlie Strang both had an explosive secret that would remain hidden for thirty long years."
As Volvo-Penta began a crash program to produce the AVC drive which they called the Aquamatic, Wynne found he was unable to answer many of the technical questions being posed by Wiklund and their chief marine engineer, Neil Hanson. Wynne had to disclose that he was not the original inventor, that Charlie Strang was, and swore them all to secrecy. During the late summer of 1958 a series of clandestine meetings between them were arranged. Often they were in motels near boat races. Strang was very concerned about Kiekhaefer's spies and his volatile nature. Wiklund said he felt he spent more time that summer in an airplane than behind his desk in Gothenburg Sweden. With Strang's guidance , the drawings were finalized and Swedish engineers rushed to complete tooling in the fall and early winter of 1958.
The Aquamatic was unveiled with a lot of fanfare at the 1959 New York Motor Boat Show in early January. It had taken the Volvo engineers less that 6 months to produce the tooling for the prototype unit. Jim Wynne was a guest in the booth to help answer questions about "his new invention." Ingemar Johansson, the Swedish heavyweight boxing champion made an appearance to pose with Wynne. Carl Kiekhaefer was stunned to see the huge crowds in the Volvo booth and was miffed at dealers asking him about the merits of the new drive. Almost a year later, Carl got his hands on an Aquamatic and installed it on an 18 foot Dunphy Boat and tested it himself at Lake X.

His report, sent to Charlie Strang before the end of January 1960 "was perhaps the most biased, unfair, and clouded evaluation that an engineer could ever have made. " He was steaming over the drive because he considered the concept without merit and because Jim Wynne was involved. He never recalled talking to Charlie Strang about the AVC drive years earlier. Carl's comments on the test report were contrary to just about everybody elses opinion of the new unit.

"Volvo engine: Extremely noisy, even though compartmented with sound-absorbing material as liner. Noise is combination of intake and mechanical. Gear whine noticeable at part throttle although not at high speed.
"Steering extremely dangerous. Spun out boat at first hard left turn. Except for center position, steering force so violent as to twist wheel out of hand. ...
"Installation costs must run considerably higher than an outboard since one large hole must be cut into the transom to take the engine mount. .. A water pickup, in addition, must be installed on the underside of the boat. ...
"The Volvo outboard-inboard drive, aside from its cost and weight disadvantages, has all the other disadvantages of an inboard installation and while a certain segment of the public might go for it, I do not believe it is a threat to outboard motors at this time. .. Gone too is the stimulant of annual model changes. Styling plays no part. The product does not advertise itself, being hidden, and has all the romance of a 371 diesel power plant! "I believe a destruction test at wide-open throttle at normal engine rpm is in order."
This test report was only part of a nearly 2 year long tirade by Carl. He was irritated by Volvo's advertising entering into his two territories of speed and endurance. Wynne had learned of the importance of racing and endurance marks while at Kiekhaefer. He obtained one of the 10 prototypes and secretly prepared another Woody Woodson 18 foot Thunderbird Boat for the Miami-Nassau race. He was afraid Volvo would not let him run one of their precious "boat show" prototypes in a race. He took on board as co-pilot Bill McKeown, editor of Popular Boating magazine. That magazine is today called Boating and was very popular at that time. Later Harald Wiklund, Volvo president told him that if he had any idea he was going to race it he would have personally came over and taken it away from him. They won their class in the race and were 4th overall, and received a landslide of favorable publicity for the Aquamatic drive.

As Volvo sales began to eat away some of Carl's 70 HP OB sales and dealers and distributors kept asking when Mercury would come out with a stern drive, Carl asked Charlie Strang to begin thinking about the concept of a Mercury stern drive (we can only imagine how this made Strang feel, as he was actually the secret original inventor of the drive).
In June 1960 Carl tried to negotiate an agreement with Volvo to be their exclusive sales agents for the Aquamatic in the U.S. Carl wanted Volvo to actively enforce its patent to keep others (OMC) out of the stern drive business (out of competition for his OB sales. The deal unraveled when Volvo wanted a guaranteed minimum of 10,000 units a year. If Carl had been successful in his reasoning he would have prevented the expense of tooling up for another drive and protected large HP OB sales.
Sales of the Aquamatic floundered at first. The initial run of 10,000 units only sold 3,000 by the end of 1959. The drive was being highly touted in the press and people liked it but it wasn't moving. It was easy for boat builders to sell boats without engines and the consumer would buy and OB and put it in the boat. Wiklund turned to Ole Botved who had crossed the Atlantic with Wynne in the outboard boat. He agreed to make Aquamatics available interest free for a full year, if he would install them in his line of Coronet boats. It was a great success.
In the fall of 1960 in a Mercury sales meeting, Carl admitted the possibility of a Mercury stern drive, but characterized the concept as a pure loser. In a speech to distributors on January 13, 1961 he finally broke down and told the public that if they wanted it he would build it. Charlie Strang continued to develop the project and Carl didn't notice how easy it was for him (the original inventor). Carl was concerned Volvo would force them on the patent, Strang knew they would not due to secrecy surrounding the original inventor.
Kiekhaefer learned that OMC was also working on a stern drive and would be announcing it at the Chicago Boat Show on March 25, 1961. He moved up Mercury's announcement two days to March 23 followed by a large display in Mercury's booth on the opening day of the show March 24. A week before the press announcement, the name MerCruiser was selected for the stern drive.
OMC's V-4, two cycle 80 HP stern drive called the OMC-480 paled by the MerCruiser four cycle automotive engines with 125 to 200 HP.
Carl took the conservative approach and only sold the drive to engine manufacturers who sold the engine and drive package to the boat builders. Mercury dealers couldn't care less about the drive because they could not market it themselves. Strang remembered when he first got Carl to take the drive seriously. He told him that he and his mother had seen a little 4 cylinder Chevrolet in a local dealership. He took Carl in the next day and told him they needed to put that engine with the stern drive. Carl told him to contact GM. That afternoon they flew to Detroit and brought back the first engine. Carl was still dragging his feet on the idea and Strang told him if he didn't like it to price it and he would buy him out on this project. "Never heard another complaint from him'" Strang said.
Carl wasn't aware that Strang and Charlie Alexander had already tried to raise money to fund the project with Jim Wynne. Carl was about to take care of the strategic errors made by Volvo and OMC of marrying the drive to low horsepower engines. GM's 110 to 140 HP engines greatly raised the market appeal of the drive.
As horsepowers moved up, Kiekhaefer had Strang design two more drives, the MerCruiser I and the MerCruiser II to handle 225 HP and even 310 HP engines. By late 1961, Mercury had captured the bulk of the market by offering two models and a wide range of engines. Mercury began to receive orders from nearly every boat builder in the country.
By 1962, only 3 years after the introduction of the Aquamatic, 16 manufacturers were producing stern drives. When Mercury opened up to direct sales to boat builders they eventually captured 80% of the world market. The conspiracy between Wynne and Strang actually worked to Carl's advantage. This secret relationship let someone else go first and test market while eventually making possible Mercury's entry.
Wynne's patents wouldn't actually issue for ten years because another inventor, C.E. Mac Donald of Seattle had actually constructed a prototype before Wynne's in Miami. MacDonald filed his application just two weeks after Wynne. They claim to be unaware of each others activities and independent discoveries of the same idea. Wynne was awarded the patent (3,376,842) on April 9, 1968. Wynne was rewarded with substantial amounts of cash from the Volvo agreement that was in effect until the patent expired in 1985. Charlie Strang would never accept a penny for his invention and went on to become board and chief executive officer of OMC during Carl Kiekhaefer's lifetime but never disclosed the story of the invention of the stern drive while Kiekhaefer was still alive.
http://www.rbbi.com/artwork/lineblu.gif

[phragle]

here is an early volvo 100 buried in the corner of my garage...

[phragle]

two more

[glassdave]

Since then it has been upgraded to the dry sump, swept skeg variant available to this day.

T2x

Thanks, that kinda illustrates my point. So who developed those two upgrades anyway? :D



This is turning into a great thread. Good info even if it stray off the Speedmaster subject a bit. :cool:

[Anchored]

From the Volvo museum.

Jeff

[cigdaze]

OMC also had that two cycle drive where they laid a V4 outboard powerhead horizontally inside the boat and hung a sterndrive off the back. The whole thing passed through a big rubber bladder on the transom and when you trimmed it the entire assembly pivoted on the forward motor mounts. ( Later, after a few thousand leaks, I think they actually trimmed the sterndrive alone and at one point I believe they also had an option that rotated the sterndrive so it stuck up behind the boat with the nosecone facing the back seat passengers).

Not exactly the same, but Dad had an old Crestliner when I was growing up on Greenwood Lake, and it had something similar going on. It had an OMC Cobra drive on it which was directly mounted to the engine (a Chrysler slant 6), and in order to trim, the entire engine/drive assembly rotated about the mounts. It was the strangest thing.

[Dude! Sweet!]

OMC also had that two cycle drive where they laid a V4 outboard powerhead horizontally inside the boat and hung a sterndrive off the back. The whole thing passed through a big rubber bladder on the transom and when you trimmed it the entire assembly pivoted on the forward motor mounts. ( Later, after a few thousand leaks, I think they actually trimmed the sterndrive alone and at one point I believe they also had an option that rotated the sterndrive so it stuck up behind the boat with the nosecone facing the back seat passengers).It had the electric shift lower unit from the outboards and the only ones I ever saw were installed in boats manufactured by OMC ("The Evinrude boat" a pretty sort of gull wing hull and the "Johnson Boat" aka "The OMC Boat" which was a sort of trimaran/hydro design ala Custom Craft, which was nowhere near as fast as you might imagine).

Rube Goldberg apparently lived in Waukegan for a while.

My dad had an Evinrude boat when I was a kid. "Playboy" maybe? (Looked it up... Playmate. Exactly like the one in this photo.) I think he bought it straight off the floor at the Syracuse boat show. Cosmic, you didn't group up on Onondaga Hill did you?

I've heard Weismann was responsible for the drysump mod.

[Dude! Sweet!]

And back to the point, so what's the difference between the 3A, 4 and 5?

[Geronimo36]

Wynne was rewarded with substantial amounts of cash from the Volvo agreement that was in effect until the patent expired in 1985.

If my memory serves me correctly, the Bravo was released in 1986. :leaving:

It's also probably interesting to note that Volvo released the DuoProp and Mercruiser released the Bravo III shortly thereafter.... :lurk5:

I guess in the end Carl K. should have been more open minded....:03:

[FastDonzi]

Thanks, that kinda illustrates my point. So who developed those two upgrades anyway? :D



This is turning into a great thread. Good info even if it stray off the Speedmaster subject a bit. :cool:


I believe wiseman (sp?) "Clustergear" is responsible for the dry sump IIRC

[Geronimo36]

And back to the point, so what's the difference between the 3A, 4 and 5?

Propshaft height was the main difference with some other slight differences.
http://www.blystone.com/Mercury%20Pages/MerCruiser/gas_drive/V-SSM_racingdrive.pdf

Back in the day some of the boats with 3 engines would have #3's in the center engine and #4/5's on port/stbd.

[Bertram38]

WTF is a SSM 1 & 2 drive?? And what do they look like?

The 6 is the big daddy, the drive every other is measured against.

The 3 has smaller internals and the 3A was the result of beefing it up and has basically same internals as the 6 (?). The SSM 5 is a shortened version of the 3A that was built for cats (?).

This is all questions by the way. Just what I've read and heard through out the years.

What's the deal with the SSM4?

Then of course there's the merc TRS which is compared to SSM3's (not 3a's) so I've heard. transmissions and large shafts that handled a good amount of power.

Open for discussion....:sifone:

If Built correctly, TRS can handle 750 Hp. Just need to know your sticks.
B38

[J.T.]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Bravo was released in 1986. :leaving:

It's also probably interesting to note that Volvo released the DuoProp and Mercruiser released the Bravo III shortly thereafter.... :lurk5:

I guess in the end Carl K. should have been more open minded....:03:


Also around that time frame, OMC dropped the stringer
mount drive and introduced cobra drive

Funny things happen when patents expire.

[Dude! Sweet!]

I believe wiseman (sp?) "Clustergear" is responsible for the dry sump IIRC

Pat goes by "Shifter" on here.

[Geronimo36]

WTF is a SSM 1 & 2 drive?? And what do they look like?

Here's a few pics of a pair #2's someone recently had for sale.

I always thought it would be cool and would be a good upgrade if someone came up with a twin down-shaft lower unit for a Bravo style drive, just like they did on the #2.

[glassdave]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Bravo was released in 1986. :leaving:

It's also probably interesting to note that Volvo released the DuoProp and Mercruiser released the Bravo III shortly thereafter.... :lurk5:

I guess in the end Carl K. should have been more open minded....:03:

Volvo 200 series - Bravo . . . . which came first
Volvo E Drive - Merc speedmaster . . . . which came first
Volvo DPX - Merc Blackhawk . . . .which came first
Volvo DuoProp - Merc Bravo III . . . . which came first
Volvo IPS - Merc Zues (or whatever it is) . . . . which came first

Not that theres any similarities between any of those products :D :leaving:

[FastDonzi]

Pat goes by "Shifter" on here.


Thats the one I was thinking of THANKS......

[Dude! Sweet!]

Propshaft height was the main difference with some other slight differences.
http://www.blystone.com/Mercury%20Pages/MerCruiser/gas_drive/V-SSM_racingdrive.pdf

Back in the day some of the boats with 3 engines would have #3's in the center engine and #4/5's on port/stbd.

Thanks!

[Dude! Sweet!]

Thats the one I was thinking of THANKS......

And if you guys ever get to drop by their shop, and they let you look around, it's well worth it. That place oozes with racing history that would make you flip your lid (McLaren F1, Indy, Chaparal Can Am, etc.). Those guys are the REAL DEAL!

[glassdave]

Between the SSM 3's 4's and 5's is it the case length that differentiates them?

[T2x]

Thanks, that kinda illustrates my point. So who developed those two upgrades anyway? :D



This is turning into a great thread. Good info even if it stray off the Speedmaster subject a bit. :cool:

The dry sump concept obviously came from Weismann funded by the Victory team. The 6 drive application of the concept (internal pump, etc) was developed by Mercury (Weismann reportedly did some consulting work but Fred K says they had little involvement in the ultimate engineering and technique).

The Swept Skeg is a tough one. Hering did some modified skegs on the early 6's. However Hering was originally a Mercury employee and learned much of his propeller blade and hydrodynamic concepts at Mercury racing, but prior to that he was champion OB hydro racer and probably brought a lot of tricks to Mercury as well...this certainly muddies the water IMHO.

T2x

[cosmic12]

My dad had an Evinrude boat when I was a kid. "Playboy" maybe? (Looked it up... Playmate. Exactly like the one in this photo.) I think he bought it straight off the floor at the Syracuse boat show. Cosmic, you didn't group up on Onondaga Hill did you?

I've heard Weismann was responsible for the drysump mod.

Bit of a Hi-jack sorry---- No I was between Baldwinsville and Cross Lake on the river and the one that was next door was almost like that one but was blueish grey deck and the windshield was closer to the bow no front deck at all. End of Hi-jack:seeya:

[Rik]

The dry sump concept obviously came from Weismann funded by the Victory team. The 6 drive application of the concept (internal pump, etc) was developed by Mercury (Weismann reportedly did some consulting work but Fred K says they had little involvement in the ultimate engineering and technique).

The Swept Skeg is a tough one. Hering did some modified skegs on the early 6's. However Hering was originally a Mercury employee and learned much of his propeller blade and hydrodynamic concepts at Mercury racing, but prior to that he was champion OB hydro racer and probably brought a lot of tricks to Mercury as well...this certainly muddies the water IMHO.

T2x

Tom Gentry dry sumped the #4 years before anyone else had even thought of doing it. In fact he dry sumped everything he could in the power train years before others.

Team Victory ran the #6's with no oil in the drive units for qualifying then Pat dry sumped the drive.

Skeg. Jerry G. takes credit for that along with a lot more.

[Ratickle]

this certainly muddies the water IMHO.

T2x

We can't start having muddy water in Offshore Racing. Can We??????


Are the 3A assemblys able to hold the 5 foot if you wanted to raise X Dimension without redoing the transom?

[Geronimo36]

We can't start having muddy water in Offshore Racing. Can We??????


Are the 3A assemblys able to hold the 5 foot if you wanted to raise X Dimension without redoing the transom?

Not that I'm aware of. The #5 upper and lowers are completely different. The prop is 6 inches higher and the blades stick up above where the #3 cavitation plate would normally be.. The #5 upper is kinda like having the nose of a #3 sawed off!

Here are links to both drives;
III - http://www.blystone.com/Mercury%20Pages/MerCruiser/gas_drive/III-A_SSM_racingdrive.pdf
V - http://www.blystone.com/Mercury%20Pages/MerCruiser/gas_drive/V-SSM_racingdrive.pdf

[Dude! Sweet!]

Is the #4 like 3" up? Daredevil has one on his boat right? What's up with it?

[TMS1155]

OMC also had that two cycle drive where they laid a V4 outboard powerhead horizontally inside the boat and hung a sterndrive off the back. The whole thing passed through a big rubber bladder on the transom and when you trimmed it the entire assembly pivoted on the forward motor mounts. ( Later, after a few thousand leaks, I think they actually trimmed the sterndrive alone and at one point I believe they also had an option that rotated the sterndrive so it stuck up behind the boat with the nosecone facing the back seat passengers).It had the electric shift lower unit from the outboards and the only ones I ever saw were installed in boats manufactured by OMC ("The Evinrude boat" a pretty sort of gull wing hull and the "Johnson Boat" aka "The OMC Boat" which was a sort of trimaran/hydro design ala Custom Craft, which was nowhere near as fast as you might imagine).

Rube Goldberg apparently lived in Waukegan for a while.

I think the drives that rotated so it stuck up behind the boat were Dana drives, mostly used on houseboats

[Roger 1]

My dad had an Evinrude boat when I was a kid. "Playboy" maybe? (Looked it up... Playmate. Exactly like the one in this photo.) I think he bought it straight off the floor at the Syracuse boat show. Cosmic, you didn't group up on Onondaga Hill did you?

I've heard Weismann was responsible for the drysump mod.

A guy that lived up the Kankakee River from where I grew up had one exactly like that. Same color combo and everything.

[insanity]

Where are the trim cylinders on the #6 drives? Are the steering cylinders dual acting as steering AND trim cylinders or are the trim rams under the drive somewhere?

[glassdave]

Where are the trim cylinders on the #6 drives? Are the steering cylinders dual acting as steering AND trim cylinders or are the trim rams under the drive somewhere?

underneath the drive at the bottom of the gimbal.

[stecz20]

great thread.....

[glassdave]

What is the Merc #7 drive? I've seen it listed on their site.

[phragle]

If I remember correctly the # 7 is designed for desiels......

[inbetween]

How does the NXT fit into all of this?

[Geronimo36]

A mini #6 with a bravo as a transmission.

[mbam]

Not all speedmaster related, but what the heck.

The drive that rotated to put the gear case up in the air was the original #2 drive, turn a crank inside the boat and the whole thing spun around. I had thought the Old Man had a speedmaster lower to go on this drive, but I’m really not sure. The dog clutch shift was in the upper unit.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show_pictures3.asp?dnbr= 37333&ivar=IMAGES/CRUISER/37333/C4.png&inbr=1560&bnbr=7&bdesc=GEAR+HOUSING+ASSEMBLY%2C+COMPLETE


The old OMC stringer drive had what we know as the transom assembly directly bolted to the engine, and yes there was a large rubber boot that sealed it to the boat. Power trim was an option and yes the entire engine moved on the mounts. There was a knuckle joint between the transom assembly & the drive, tilting the electric shift drive for shallow water or to trailer was accomplished by a worm/sector gear. They would come up almost 90 degrees if I remember correctly. You could run them in tilt position just above idle, any more than that was a disaster. It was fun to give your buddies a shower with it.

Volvo had the 270E drive, in fact they had a neat 6 cylinder engine to go with it. This was the standard Volvo upper with a really skinny dual drive shaft lower. Early 70’s if I have it right. I bet the torpedo was about 3” in diameter. Mercury did not have a counter rotate drive back then; at least for the small block stuff so many of the early Magnums & Cigs had the Volvos. These lowers were an instant 10 MPH or so over the stock Volvo. And ------------ they would break if you sneezed at them, never designed for a V8.

The #7 is kind of a transformers #6, same upper but a single drive shaft lower. Were not around for very long,

My Cig had the skegs cut off the #3 lowers when I bought it, would change direction any time it wanted

[TMS1155]

Not all speedmaster related, but what the heck.

The drive that rotated to put the gear case up in the air was the original #2 drive, turn a crank inside the boat and the whole thing spun around. I had thought the Old Man had a speedmaster lower to go on this drive, but I’m really not sure. The dog clutch shift was in the upper unit.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show_pictures3.asp?dnbr= 37333&ivar=IMAGES/CRUISER/37333/C4.png&inbr=1560&bnbr=7&bdesc=GEAR+HOUSING+ASSEMBLY%2C+COMPLETE


The old OMC stringer drive had what we know as the transom assembly directly bolted to the engine, and yes there was a large rubber boot that sealed it to the boat. Power trim was an option and yes the entire engine moved on the mounts. There was a knuckle joint between the transom assembly & the drive, tilting the electric shift drive for shallow water or to trailer was accomplished by a worm/sector gear. They would come up almost 90 degrees if I remember correctly. You could run them in tilt position just above idle, any more than that was a disaster. It was fun to give your buddies a shower with it.

Volvo had the 270E drive, in fact they had a neat 6 cylinder engine to go with it. This was the standard Volvo upper with a really skinny dual drive shaft lower. Early 70’s if I have it right. I bet the torpedo was about 3” in diameter. Mercury did not have a counter rotate drive back then; at least for the small block stuff so many of the early Magnums & Cigs had the Volvos. These lowers were an instant 10 MPH or so over the stock Volvo. And ------------ they would break if you sneezed at them, never designed for a V8.

The #7 is kind of a transformers #6, same upper but a single drive shaft lower. Were not around for very long,

My Cig had the skegs cut off the #3 lowers when I bought it, would change direction any time it wanted

That #2 drive was the hardest thing I ever saw to get off!

[Anchored]

E-drives from Kenny Black's 'Lil Rhino.

Jeff

[T2x]

How does the NXT fit into all of this?

On the transom.

[Steve Miklos]

This is where I go to decompress at work. It is about 150 feet from my office door, lots of history!

[Steve Miklos]

over 300 motors!

[Ratickle]

Somehow that just doesn't seem fair to the rest of us.......:(

[Steve Miklos]

Somehow that just doesn't seem fair to the rest of us.......:(

and have a private sanctuary

[T2x]

and have a private sanctuary

Is that collection yours?

[Steve Miklos]

Is that collection yours?

I am not the current curator just the future one!
Steve

[old377guy]

OMC also had that two cycle drive where they laid a V4 outboard powerhead horizontally inside the boat and hung a sterndrive off the back. The whole thing passed through a big rubber bladder on the transom and when you trimmed it the entire assembly pivoted on the forward motor mounts. ( Later, after a few thousand leaks, I think they actually trimmed the sterndrive alone and at one point I believe they also had an option that rotated the sterndrive so it stuck up behind the boat with the nosecone facing the back seat passengers).It had the electric shift lower unit from the outboards and the only ones I ever saw were installed in boats manufactured by OMC ("The Evinrude boat" a pretty sort of gull wing hull and the "Johnson Boat" aka "The OMC Boat" which was a sort of trimaran/hydro design ala Custom Craft, which was nowhere near as fast as you might imagine).

Rube Goldberg apparently lived in Waukegan for a while.

An Evinrude boat pulled up next to me at the dock last week, I was all over the boat. I got the impression that the owner didn't realize what he had.

[Tank]

Speaking of cut down SSM#3's...A buddy had a 98 38 Scarab with #3's that had the skegs cut off on it. They were purchased from Bob Teague who had them on the straight bottom yellow Fountain for a long time in the late 80's early 90's. Bob upgraded the boat to #6's.


Here's an interesting article in Powerboat magazine, written by Matt Trulio (who's a member here). Great article, however, as I recall there was a rebuttal letter written by Weisman where they explained Weisman really wasn't the creator of the #6. I can't find the letter, but it was printed in PBM.

o well-branded is the super-tough No. 6 dry-sump drive from Mercury Racing that people tend to forget it began its life as an innovative creation from Weismann Marine.
power_0309_a.jpgThat’s right—for those of you who are too young to know this stuff or too old to remember any of it—Mercury Racing purchased the technology from the innovative Costa Mesa, Calif., company. Mercury refined the drive and was able to produce it at a volume Weismann Marine never could, but the concept, design and prototypes were straight from the fertile minds of Pat and Chris Weismann, the brothers who own and run Weismann Marine.

The Weismann brothers come by their inventive brain matter honestly—their father, Peter Weismann, and legendary offshore racer John Connor developed the patented Kaama drive that helped propel racer Betty Cook to several offshore world championships in the 1970s and 1980s. So for the Weismanns, innovation is in the blood.

More recently, the brothers teamed up to build a unique engine-and-drive package in AVR (Advanced Vessel Research), a 39-foot Extreme formerly named Ettore. The boat was originally powered by a pair of Paul Pfaff big-blocks installed low in the boat and “in line,” meaning with their flywheels facing one another rather than staggered side-by-side. To get the power to the twin Weismann Surface Drives, they used a clever V-shape offset box.

Their goal was balancing—or canceling if you will—the effects of camshaft rotation on handling. The idea was that if the engines were installed facing one another, flywheel to flywheel, the rotation of one camshaft would counteract the rotation of the other camshaft. The boat would not pull to the right or the left as a result of engine torque, because that torque would be balanced.

“You get the automatic benefit of engine counter-rotation,” said Pat Weismann.

The project produced mixed results and the boat was eventually sold by owner Scot Conrad to Dave Kutscher. Kutscher liked the concept of facing engines, but like the Weismann brothers, he was interested in efficiency and saving weight. In essence, he gave Weismann Marine a clean sheet of paper to not just install the engines and set them up with Weismann Surface Drives, but build the engines themselves. So the Weismanns started with the LS7, 427-cubic-inch Corvette platform and marinized a pair of them. As in the original Ettore boat, the engines were installed flywheel to flywheel.

“Nobody had done a marinized LS7 that I had seen, and we were after the best horsepower-to-weight ratio,” Pat Weismann said. “We were playing with efficiencies. We wanted to see how fast the boat would run with a minimal amount of horsepower. We’ve been working on engine packages to go with our drives and gear boxes.”

To that end, the AVR stepped V-bottom was equipped with a pair of Weismann Offset FNR transmissions, Weismann six-speed semiautomatic transmissions and Weismann surface stern drives. With the twin 650-hp, 384-pound engines turning 7,500 rpm, the boat averaged 104 mph during the late-2008 kilo runs on the Salton Sea (see “Track Record,” February 2009, Page 50).

“For a long time everyone thought big horsepower was the way to go,” said Todd Petersen of Racepak Data Systems, who engineered the boat’s electronics. “We wanted to come out and show people that there’s a different way to do it. With lightweight engines, a lower center of gravity, big props spinning more slowly—efficient everything—you can do nine-tenths of what you could do with bigger power.”

For most high-performance offshore and automotive product shops, that sort of project would be more than enough for a year. But there was another Weismann product-equipped boat at the Salton Sea Speedweek, a 23-foot, six-person military vessel with a 315-hp Yanmar diesel engine. With a 44-mph top speed, it certainly wasn’t fast. But it was equipped with the latest product-in-development from Weismann, a twin-propeller counter-rotating surface drive.
power_0309_b.jpg
The last attempt at such a drive was the Mercury Racing Blackhawk, and it failed. Setup was a challenge—no one could seem to dial it in consistently—and reliability was marginal. Mercury ended up pulling the Blackhawk from the market. But the product caught the attention and imagination of the Weismann brothers who believed that, if made reliable, a counter-rotating surface drive could work—and work well.

“The goal was trying to make a counter-rotating drive that was surfacing, because I hadn’t seen one that could take any horsepower,” Pat Weismann said. “The Blackhawk lasted about a year and went away. But it was intriguing, because counter-rotating propellers made a boat go extremely straight and eliminated handling issues—the boat doesn’t want to swap ends.

“The way the drive is designed, our counter-rotating drive has a single input through a universal joint and two sets of gears, clockwise and counterclockwise. It can be run as a single or as a twin. You can flip the rotation of the lead propeller. Because it’s counter-rotating, it kind of cancels all the ideas on inward and outward propeller rotation.”

At press time, the prototype drive, tabbed the WDP (Weismann Duo Prop), had 17 hours and Weismann said his team was “doing everything to try to break it—we only run at wide-open throttle.” To help speed up the process, the drive has giant six-blade propellers, 41"-pitch in the lead and 44"-pitch following. Weismann said development should be complete in six months, and that his goal is for the drive to be rated for engines up to 1,500 hp producing up to 1,600 foot-pounds of torque.

“I hate to put a horsepower number on it, because there’s so much more to it than that such as the weight of the boat, the propellers and so on, and people will always just push it to that number,” he said. “But that’s our goal.

“The project has no budget,” he added. “There’s no end-customer for it right now. It’s just something we wanted to do. It’s not that challenging when you start with a clean sheet of paper.”

At least for a Weismann.

– Matt Trulio is a freelance writer for Powerboat.

[RACESDAD]

the first dry sump #6 was done for Dubia team by Wiessman's Traction Products and tested on Raggamuffin / CT Peppers in the states. WOn the worlds then demmed illegal for the following years until mercury started producing them. Thank you Pat and Chris

[MarylandMark]

What is the Merc #7 drive? I've seen it listed on their site.

diesel

edit- sorry; didn't see this was on page 4 already and already answered

[OneBadInjun]

Since we're going on what we've heard, and hopefully the truth will surface,


I thought the 1 and the 2 were both TRS's with a foot change only?

Incorrect. They were completely different generation drives. The TRS and TR drives were the same uppers. The TRS was intended for Sportboats/Offshores mostly. The TR drive had a deeper gearcase to allow for up to 19" diameter propellers for larger vessels, houseboats, etc. The #1 and Mercruiser 2 drives and their corresponding transom plates, were a different design and era altogether.

[Ratickle]

I'm positive the Super SpeedMaster II, was only a different foot. Everything else was the TRS.

The Super SpeedMaster I, I do not know for sure though.

[DAREDEVIL]

I'm positive the Super SpeedMaster II, was only a different foot. Everything else was the TRS.

The Super SpeedMaster I, I do not know for sure though.

SSMII had same uper and gimbal then TRS...correct,,,,TR II had gimbal and upper from SSM 3 but longer lower.
I had a set that i sold for cheap. Did not realize it was the same gimbal then SSM untill the guy that bought it showed me .
Damn was i stupid.:(

[OneBadInjun]

I'm positive the Super SpeedMaster II, was only a different foot. Everything else was the TRS.

The Super SpeedMaster I, I do not know for sure though.
There was never such thing as a SpeedMaster #1 sterndrive. Yes, the SpeedMaster #2 drive was a TRS upper and was the first sterndrive SpeedMaster drive. It deputed in approximately 1974.

[OneBadInjun]

.
Damn was i stupid.:( Let's not go there...lol:) The TRS/TR/SpeedMaster #2 transom plates were one in the same. But completely different than a #3 transom plate(or drive).

[Ratickle]

There was never such thing as a SpeedMaster #1 sterndrive. Yes, the SpeedMaster #2 drive was a TRS upper and was the first sterndrive SpeedMaster drive. It deputed in approximately 1974.

According to Mercruiser there was. It ended up being the lower of choice for outboards. I just have no idea what upper it came with in the IO's.

http://www.powercatboat.com/FGS-SSM/FGS-SSM.html

Super Speedmasters (SSM's) were sufficient until hp approached 150. At 150 hp right hand SSM's were still up to par,
but left hand SSM's could not take the load. Merc's solution for boats running 2 motors wanting one RH rotation prop
and one LH rotation prop was to run one motor backwards and make a few minor changes to a RH SSM to allow it to
work with CCW input and output. A second tier solution was to use the first MerCruiser sterndrive Super Speedmaster
which had turned out to be a little weak for sterndrive use. This SSM was called a MC-1 SSM for "MerCruiser type 1 Super Speedmaster"

[DAREDEVIL]

Let's not go there...lol:) The TRS/TR/SpeedMaster #2 transom plates were one in the same. But completely different than a #3 transom plate(or drive).

I tell u ,,the TR II had the same gimbal and upper then the #3.
NOT THE SSM II ( with the TRS stuff ) .

I get pictures and show u. BIG A$$ drives with round ear aluminum props,,mid to late 70's came on 35 + offshore boat build in england !!!!

1000 % .
My buddy that bouth them has the gimbals on his 38 cig with #3's on them,,so it can't be TRS stuff.

[OneBadInjun]

Got a photo? There was a minute quantity of MC-1 SSM drives that Merc produced, so few they were considered just another R & D expenditure. In other words, they did'nt exist to the general public. Another example, I happen to know for a fact, the exact total production of #7 SpeedMaster drives that were produced, because I was involved with Mercury at the time. The 7 drive was the same as a #6 drive, simply with a longer(deeper) gearcase, to accomodate larger diameter wheels for larger performance cruisers, just as the TRS & TR had different gearcases. There are parts breakdowns, still to this day, available at the dealer & OEM levels, with regards to the #7 drive. A total of eight(8) drives were built by Merc Hi-Perf. But hey, they existed!

[OneBadInjun]

I tell u ,,the TR II had the same gimbal and upper then the #3.
NOT THE SSM II ( with the TRS stuff ) .

I get pictures and show u. BIG A$$ drives with round ear aluminum props,,mid to late 70's came on 35 + offshore boat build in england !!!!

1000 % .
My buddy that bouth them has the gimbals on his 38 cig with #3's on them,,so it can't be TRS stuff.

Merc ll drives(non-performance), were manufactured between 1962-1969. The Model 215E & model 215H drives were introduced in 1970 thru 1972, and were basically a TRS drive, but were not given this nomenclature until 1973. They were then called TRS/TR drives and were produced from 1973 up until 1993.

[DAREDEVIL]

Merc ll drives(non-performance), were manufactured between 1962-1969. The Model 215E & model 215H drives were introduced in 1970 thru 1972, and were basically a TRS drive, but were not given this nomenclature until 1973. They were then called TRS/TR drives and were produced from 1973 up until 1993.

I will get u a picture !!! of the gimbals and drives when i sold them .
Something is not right.
Trusst me ,,i believe u have alot more knoledge then me ,,but after i post the pictures maybe u can clear this up. LOL

[OneBadInjun]

There have been a few innovative individuals out there, that have gone to the trouble of machine matching a SSM ll/TR/TRS to a SSM lll transom plate. I have seen it done. Personally, I don't believe in going to the trouble, as it just passes the stresses onto the next weakest link in the chain.

[mbam]

You guys aren’t old enough :) Well maybe Injun is :) :)

TR2 is a TRS upper with a supersize lower, yes 19 or 20” prop.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectSerailRange.asp?doc_nbr=II%2DTR+++1973%2D1976

The III is another drive with a supersize lower, same basic upper as the #3SSM. I don't seem to have it on the site however. Had a finned rear cover with a fill plug in it if I remember correctly.


And way back in the day (early mid 60's) I think there was a SSM lower for the original II drive - not related at all to the TRS. I will say I was just a puppy then and might be thinking of something else.

[Ratickle]

From what I've been able to find, the SS I was only made in 1963. Then the II started in 1964.

And I'm pretty old.

[TMS1155]

Merc ll drives(non-performance), were manufactured between 1962-1969. The Model 215E & model 215H drives were introduced in 1970 thru 1972, and were basically a TRS drive, but were not given this nomenclature until 1973. They were then called TRS/TR drives and were produced from 1973 up until 1993.

215e and 215h both shifted in the top half of drive. They used an automotive type clutch rather than a coupler or trans. on the flywheel.when you shifted them an electric motor would spin and depress the clutch and spin a cable (similar to a speedo cable from a car) that would shift the drive then the cluch woud engage and off you went. The E was electric shift and the H was hyd. shift. Was probably the worst thing ever designed for a boat!
TRII and TRS were the exact same drive and transom ass. the gearcase was the only diff.
The TRIII and the #3 were the same other than the gearcase. I dont think there were many TRIII drives sold and that may be what DD had. Yes it did have a finned cover plate with a fill plug.
Yes I am old enough to remember! LOL

[old377guy]

I came across what must have been a TRIII drive in May. I was in a boat salvage parts yard up here in Portland. The drive had no labels and did not have a SSM gearcase. The yard owner had gotten it from a local marine dealer that didn't know what it was. He asked me what I thought it was and since it had the finned cover and was beefier than a TR drive, I told him it was the #3 equivalent of a TRII drive probably early to mid-70's vintage. Supposedly it still functions and is likely still there.

[OneBadInjun]

215e and 215h both shifted in the top half of drive. They used an automotive type clutch rather than a coupler or trans. on the flywheel.when you shifted them an electric motor would spin and depress the clutch and spin a cable (similar to a speedo cable from a car) that would shift the drive then the cluch woud engage and off you went. The E was electric shift and the H was hyd. shift. Was probably the worst thing ever designed for a boat!
TRII and TRS were the exact same drive and transom ass. the gearcase was the only diff.
The TRIII and the #3 were the same other than the gearcase. I dont think there were many TRIII drives sold and that may be what DD had. Yes it did have a finned cover plate with a fill plug.
Yes I am old enough to remember! LOLMore good info.:driving:

[OneBadInjun]

You guys aren’t old enough :) Well maybe Injun is :) :)

TR2 is a TRS upper with a supersize lower, yes 19 or 20” prop.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectSerailRange.asp?doc_nbr=II%2DTR+++1973%2D1976

The III is another drive with a supersize lower, same basic upper as the #3SSM. I don't seem to have it on the site however. Had a finned rear cover with a fill plug in it if I remember correctly.


And way back in the day (early mid 60's) I think there was a SSM lower for the original II drive - not related at all to the TRS. I will say I was just a puppy then and might be thinking of something else.

It's about time you helped me out on this Marc, lol. Hey, on another note, when are you going to get all the Kiekhaefer trim tabs, indicator panels, accuators, etc., all back up on your website? I know you have it on disc! Put it up. Thanks

[mbam]

It never went away, it's just hard to find.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectDocs.asp?doc_nbr=891720

I'm working on a new version of the site, this is on the list.

[mbam]

Here's the indicator panels

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectDocs.asp?doc_nbr=898115

All here, just gotta dig till I reorganize it. In my spare time :)

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectModels3.asp?type_id=ASS

[OneBadInjun]

Thank-You Sir!:USA:

[Geronimo36]

TR2 is a TRS upper with a supersize lower, yes 19 or 20” prop.

I've only seen and worked on one of them, it was on an old SeaRay Amberjack and it spit the pinion out the side of the case..:seeya:

[MikeyFIN]

I showed the very first Volvo 200 drive on a 16' Donzi at the Jacksonville Boat Show in November 1964. Bill Steele and Joe Swift of Mercury offered me money and Ho's if I would swing by Lake X on the way home. No dice!


and Regarding the Volvo E-Drive ( Volvos SSM) They are on regular basis for sale in Europe time to time.
Yesterday I saw one for sale that could take 600hp..not bad for a early 70´s drive....

Plus Volvos Steering and Trims are second to noe compared top Merc and the Casting is like from another planet.
Still I look for the black bastards myself...:seeya:

[MikeyFIN]

Probably were ugly Ho's..........:sifone:

Knowing Brownies way of thinking and way of life...
I Think he would´ve expressed his opinion about the quality of the ladies of the hour...

[MikeyFIN]

Cool!!! How about the old outboards that accomplished forward/reverse by reversing the rotation of the engine!!!!

A little back on track... How about when the racers would cut the skegs off the SSM's to gain speed!:leaving:


Like this ???
Pic from June 2009...NOT ON PURPOSE, Dammit
http://kohoracing.fi/gallery/kalkkiranta09/IMG_1647.JPG

[Anchored]

An Evinrude boat pulled up next to me at the dock last week, I was all over the boat. I got the impression that the owner didn't realize what he had.

Is this one?

Jeff

[Ratickle]

Is this one?

Jeff

It sure looks like one.

[old377guy]

Is this one?

Jeff

I thinks so from what I can tell from your photo.

[Anchored]

I saw it in Red Wing MN on the Mississippi.
There was a classic Glastron event at the Marina.

Jeff

[Dude! Sweet!]

Has the Evinrude logo on the Stbd bow too.

[Ratickle]

Has the Evinrude logo on the Stbd bow too.

Good eye....I didn't catch that.

[MILD THUNDER]

You guys aren’t old enough :) Well maybe Injun is :) :)

TR2 is a TRS upper with a supersize lower, yes 19 or 20” prop.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectSerailRange.asp?doc_nbr=II%2DTR+++1973%2D1976

The III is another drive with a supersize lower, same basic upper as the #3SSM. I don't seem to have it on the site however. Had a finned rear cover with a fill plug in it if I remember correctly.


And way back in the day (early mid 60's) I think there was a SSM lower for the original II drive - not related at all to the TRS. I will say I was just a puppy then and might be thinking of something else.


I believe this is the drive in question, "clubfoot" bolts to ssm III gimbal

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifieds/ssm3_clubfoot_390hp_drives-o26985-en.html

[Steve 1]

I am in a gray area on the # 6 I thought Fred had something to do with it, the last big drives Carl did were numbered I think like 600 or 800 and the drive steered by the lower half swiveling the Gimbals only allowed trim In and Out , there were Sealing problems and Mr. K pulled the plug on it.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Steve the sixes were Keikeffers. They first showed up around '88 . They were said to take 1000 ft/lbs torque. I don't recall the name but, gorilla rings a bell. Some time shortly there after Mercury incorporated the Keik line into quicksilver accessories and began to offer the #6.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Bravo was released in 1986. :leaving:



Frank, The Bravo was offered first in '88. It existed before that. I recall seeing it at merc school before its release.. Yes it was a copy of Volvo's cone clutch.. Merc waited for the patent to expire.

A friend of mine owned a '75 or 6 Magnum.. He claimed it had the first TRS on it.

THose OMC trim that moved the whole motor.. What A POS. I was in high school and could recognize it as trouble.. OMC engineers have never failed to amaze me. Every time I would try to understand why the did it the way they did I would say to myself , "that sure is a stupid way to do it." I decided long ago I wold never work on one again. I still refuse.

I will throw all my tools in in river before I so much as change a battery in an OMC product.

Any way it is amazing how things have advanced in the last decade. It was not that long ago when 100 MPH pleasure boats were few and far between.

[Steve 1]

Steve the sixes were Keikeffers. They first showed up around '88 . They were said to take 1000 ft/lbs torque. I don't recall the name but, gorilla rings a bell. Some time shortly there after Mercury incorporated the Keik line into quicksilver accessories and began to offer the #6.
Fred and Gary were in the car with us in the # 4 days and I asked about a stronger drive (we had a big tripple planned then) they both laughed and said soon; the Six was what they were working on then.

[old377guy]

Frank, The Bravo was offered first in '88. It existed before that. I recall seeing it at merc school before its release.. Yes it was a copy of Volvo's cone clutch.. Merc waited for the patent to expire.

A friend of mine owned a '75 or 6 Magnum.. He claimed it had the first TRS on it.

THose OMC trim that moved the whole motor.. What A POS. I was in high school and could recognize it as trouble.. OMC engineers have never failed to amaze me. Every time I would try to understand why the did it the way they did I would say to myself , "that sure is a stupid way to do it." I decided long ago I wold never work on one again. I still refuse.

I will throw all my tools in in river before I so much as change a battery in an OMC product.

Any way it is amazing how things have advanced in the last decade. It was not that long ago when 100 MPH pleasure boats were few and far between.


I remember seeing the trim motors on the front engine mounts, big rubber sheet on the transom and "ball joints" on the drive and just shaking my head over and over again........

[Mark75H]

So where did the idea of the outdrive originate?

This wasn't the only sterndrive from that era. Johnson made them in the US, too. I'm sure Kiekhaefer knew about these earlier sterndrives and others ... and considered them all commercial and mechanical failures ... that's why he was not interested making a sterndrive ... until the Volvo proved to be both a commercial and mechanical success.

Here is a link to my Speedmaster threads on www.screamandfly.com:

History of the Merc Speedmaster racing lower unit (http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?24110-Name-this-lower-unit&highlight=speedmaster)

[OneBadInjun]

This wasn't the only sterndrive from that era. Johnson made them in the US, too. I'm sure Kiekhaefer knew about these earlier sterndrives and others ... and considered them all commercial and mechanical failures ... that's why he was not interested making a sterndrive ... until the Volvo proved to be both a commercial and mechanical success.

Here is a link to my Speedmaster threads on www.screamandfly.com:

History of the Merc Speedmaster racing lower unit (http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?24110-Name-this-lower-unit&highlight=speedmaster)

Thanks for the link Mark. Also, lets not forget the Eaton outdrive. What a jewel, lol :sifone:

[Powerabout]

Speaking of MCM 1 speedmaster, didnt Jackie Wilsons Cosworth outboard tunnel have a 1 drive in it?
( or should I say on it?)

[endeavor1]

great thread

[htrdlncn]

My first boat was a hand me down from my Dad,
a 24x7 Pirahna had a 200hp/292" (truck block) chevy straight six with a quadrajet with factory thru hull
exhaust and a #2 drive. It was all factory stock .It was a 1969 model way before the TRS, the steering wheel ,drive and all the controls said kiekhaefer , the drive manual the came with the boat called it a Kiekhaefer #2 drive, the motor said Mercury.
The drive was sealed with no water inlet nor exhaust provision and a cleaver prop.
Used external water pickup and external exhaust.
Ran a best of 52mph which was impressive given the lack of hp, great boat for a 17 year old like I was at the time. I paid my Dad $1000 which at the time (1979)
seemed like an entire fortune to me..
That was one deep mean sounding exhaust for a straight six!

[Ron P]

Here's the whole story about the drive timeline and all. I was fortunate enough to have a one on one interview with Fred Kiekhaefer a couple of years ago and asked some probing questions...about the outdrive.

I feel that this article was my finest moment as a writer for the deceased Extreme Boats Magazine. I hope you enjoy it.

PS - This article was APPROVED by Mercury Racing prior to it being published. It's 100% accurate.

[old377guy]

My first boat was a hand me down from my Dad,
a 24x7 Pirahna had a 200hp/292" (truck block) chevy straight six with a quadrajet with factory thru hull
exhaust and a #2 drive. It was all factory stock .It was a 1969 model way before the TRS, the steering wheel ,drive and all the controls said kiekhaefer , the drive manual the came with the boat called it a Kiekhaefer #2 drive, the motor said Mercury.
The drive was sealed with no water inlet nor exhaust provision and a cleaver prop.
Used external water pickup and external exhaust.
Ran a best of 52mph which was impressive given the lack of hp, great boat for a 17 year old like I was at the time. I paid my Dad $1000 which at the time (1979)
seemed like an entire fortune to me..
That was one deep mean sounding exhaust for a straight six!


That is a cool piece of marine history; I didn't realize that the Kiekaefer logos were still on Mercury stuff until '69.

[htrdlncn]

yup

[poncho]

Here's the whole story about the drive timeline and all. I was fortunate enough to have a one on one interview with Fred Kiekhaefer a couple of years ago and asked some probing questions...about the outdrive.

I feel that this article was my finest moment as a writer for the deceased Extreme Boats Magazine. I hope you enjoy it.

PS - This article was APPROVED by Mercury Racing prior to it being published. It's 100% accurate.

Good article.... I dug through my Extreme Boats issue collection to read the hard copy version. Gosh that was a good magazine and I now miss them!