Mercury Marine To Close And Move All Production From Fond du Lac, Wisconsin......

[Geronimo36]

Latest news...sounds like some back-peddling going on now.... If I were Mercury I would put even more pressure on them now...;)

Mercury post-vote update: Union asks to meet Mercury president

By IBI Magazine

Following yesterday's union vote in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin rejecting a proposed contract change from Mercury Marine, the governor of Wisconsin and local business leaders have called on the union and company to resume talks until a Saturday deadline. Union leaders, saying its members rejected Mercury's "suicide offer", have asked to meet Mercury's president tomorrow.

Mercury spokesman Steve Fleming said that he is not sure what the union officials want to discuss, but said the union has the opportunity to vote again on the proposed contract changes until the August 29 deadline set by the company.

Following the vote, Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle said he would like for talks to continue. "Mercury Marine is offering a remarkable opportunity to consolidate hundreds of jobs here in Wisconsin," Doyle said in a statement. "I still believe that this opportunity exists and as long as it does, I will fight for it. But I cannot do it alone."

Joe Reitemeier, president and CEO of the Fond du Lac Area Association of Commerce, told the Fond du Lac Reporter he wanted to see a reconvening of negotiations or a second vote before Saturday.

But Allen Buechel, an executive with the county government, said local officials won't be able to do anything about the manufacturing jobs. He said they should focus on making sure Mercury Marine does not move 900 other jobs at its corporate headquarters.

The Fond du Lac County Economic Development Corp said the loss of the manufacturing plant would mean an annual loss of US$353m in workers earnings and an additional 5,900 in lost jobs due to the impact on suppliers, government and business in the area. Mercury said in a statement yesterday it would soon communicate a plan to wind down manufacturing operations in Fond du Lac in the next 24 to 36 months.

The union issued a strident press release after the vote, calling the renegotiated contract a "suicide offer". The statement said the new agreement would "eliminate pensions, jobs and health care for thousands of Wisconsin workers and their families".

"Mercury Marine never intended for this offer to be accepted," said IAM Midwest Territory vice president Philip Gruber in the statement. "Despite progress on every major issue and a commitment by the IAM to continue bargaining, the company balked in the final hours and added terms and conditions that assured members would reject the offer."

The union said that Mercury refused to commit in writing that a "yes" vote would preserve jobs. That, said the statement, left "many employees convinced the company fully intended to move production out of Fond du Lac, regardless of the vote outcome".

Fleming said that Mercury communicated clearly to the union members why it wanted to change the contract. "We weren't trying to take advantage of them in a down economy," he said. "This was created by a number of economic facts."


(24 August 2009)

[Steve 1]

Gotta agree with Chris on this one, I have said all along thatr the us industrial dominance was a very big bubble with complacency and entitlement being the pin we used to pop it.

After WW11 when every factory on earth was ankle high, We were the only game in town but through massive US Government Waste, giveaways and the rebuilding of whole countries: example we taught the Japanese to build cars gave them the Transistor and a new Steel business. Our weak-kneed imbecilic politicians caused this mess we are in today. Fix it how? Tiny Hitech industrial parks LMAO Vs the huge manufacturing core we once had!

[MarylandMark]

I'm having some bumper stickers made up right now:

"KEEP BUYING CHINESE IF YOU WANT TO LIVE LIKE THEM"

I'm waiting for the printer to get back to me- couple of time zones away so may not be until tomorrow. He said school started so most of the kids will be working the 3rd shift and he has to beat them in to working a little faster but thinks he can make the deadline.

[Ratickle]

I'm having some bumper stickers made up right now:

"KEEP BUYING CHINESE IF YOU WANT TO LIVE LIKE THEM"

I'm waiting for the printer to get back to me- couple of time zones away so may not be until tomorrow. He said school started so most of the kids will be working the 3rd shift and he has to beat them in to working a little faster but thinks he can make the deadline.

He's in China???????:rofl: :sifone: :rofl:

[MacGyver]

The union members are calling it a "suicide offer", LOL! I'd think not having a stable job is financial suicide for themselves.

[MacGyver]

The latest info on the impact of Mercury leaving:

$353,000,000 economic loss to Fond du Lac county.
5,900 additional lost jobs to businessess that support Mercury.

Wayne, you made a good move.

[03darkshadow]

good move wayne, whose union guys are nuts.


the gov't has union contractors too. they get more money then us non-union and do a whole lot less. they do a specific job and it takes 15 of them to do what we can do with 4 people. its a shame the gov't lets this happen, but you'd all be amazed at what the gov't wastes money on and does and doesnt do for their employees.

[MarylandMark]

He's in China???????:rofl: :sifone: :rofl:

LOL- yea- ironic humor attempt.

[Scarab KV]

good move wayne, whose union guys are nuts.


the gov't has union contractors too. they get more money then us non-union and do a whole lot less. they do a specific job and it takes 15 of them to do what we can do with 4 people. its a shame the gov't lets this happen, but you'd all be amazed at what the gov't wastes money on and does and doesnt do for their employees.

Gotta take care of the campaign contributors

[Scarab KV]

Latest news...sounds like some back-peddling going on now.... If I were Mercury I would put even more pressure on them now...;)

Mercury post-vote update: Union asks to meet Mercury president

By IBI Magazine

Following yesterday's union vote in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin rejecting a proposed contract change from Mercury Marine, the governor of Wisconsin and local business leaders have called on the union and company to resume talks until a Saturday deadline. Union leaders, saying its members rejected Mercury's "suicide offer", have asked to meet Mercury's president tomorrow.

Mercury spokesman Steve Fleming said that he is not sure what the union officials want to discuss, but said the union has the opportunity to vote again on the proposed contract changes until the August 29 deadline set by the company.

Following the vote, Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle said he would like for talks to continue. "Mercury Marine is offering a remarkable opportunity to consolidate hundreds of jobs here in Wisconsin," Doyle said in a statement. "I still believe that this opportunity exists and as long as it does, I will fight for it. But I cannot do it alone."

Joe Reitemeier, president and CEO of the Fond du Lac Area Association of Commerce, told the Fond du Lac Reporter he wanted to see a reconvening of negotiations or a second vote before Saturday.

But Allen Buechel, an executive with the county government, said local officials won't be able to do anything about the manufacturing jobs. He said they should focus on making sure Mercury Marine does not move 900 other jobs at its corporate headquarters.

The Fond du Lac County Economic Development Corp said the loss of the manufacturing plant would mean an annual loss of US$353m in workers earnings and an additional 5,900 in lost jobs due to the impact on suppliers, government and business in the area. Mercury said in a statement yesterday it would soon communicate a plan to wind down manufacturing operations in Fond du Lac in the next 24 to 36 months.

The union issued a strident press release after the vote, calling the renegotiated contract a "suicide offer". The statement said the new agreement would "eliminate pensions, jobs and health care for thousands of Wisconsin workers and their families".

"Mercury Marine never intended for this offer to be accepted," said IAM Midwest Territory vice president Philip Gruber in the statement. "Despite progress on every major issue and a commitment by the IAM to continue bargaining, the company balked in the final hours and added terms and conditions that assured members would reject the offer."

The union said that Mercury refused to commit in writing that a "yes" vote would preserve jobs. That, said the statement, left "many employees convinced the company fully intended to move production out of Fond du Lac, regardless of the vote outcome".

Fleming said that Mercury communicated clearly to the union members why it wanted to change the contract. "We weren't trying to take advantage of them in a down economy," he said. "This was created by a number of economic facts."


(24 August 2009)

:huh: Now all of a sudden Doyle wants to get involved now. He's already done enough to phuck up Wisconsin:cuss:

[MacGyver]

Maybe Doyle can persuade the union members to re-vote to keep their job. But I doubt it.

[MarylandMark]

The company said it has no expectations of resuming negotiations at this time, nor does it intend to offer a modified proposal beyond what has already been presented to the union.

I read a saying I think is frickin awesome (can someone verify?)

Carl Kiekhaefer said "I pay my men twice what they're worth, and then I make then earn it"

[Scarab KV]

Maybe Doyle can persuade the union members to re-vote to keep their job. But I doubt it.

Doyle doesn't give a sh!t. He's gonna be gone soon anyway.

[Geronimo36]

Carl Kiekhaefer said "I pay my men twice what they're worth, and then I make then earn it"

Yeah, tell that to the guys at Volvo!!!:lurk5::rofl:

[pullmytrigger]

The only silver lining is now that so much is being outsourced, countries like India have prospered and their standard of living has increased and their services have become more expensive (check out "Slumdog Millinaire" as an example)... So then competition started to move things to China, Pakistan and several other unamed countries, who are also growing...

Long-term I think things might start to balance out but it will be at the expense of the USA. :(

there is still all of Africa as an untouched source of cheap labour.......there is a h ell of a long ways to go before things even out.......

[Ratickle]

there is still all of Africa as an untouched source of cheap labour.......there is a h ell of a long ways to go before things even out.......

Southeast Asia is just getting in there also. China is outsourcing to Nam.....:ack2:

[T2x]

Southeast Asia is just getting in there also. China is outsourcing to Nam.....:ack2:


A few more years of Obamanomics and Somalia will be outsourcing to us.

[Geronimo36]

there is still all of Africa as an untouched source of cheap labour.......there is a h ell of a long ways to go before things even out.......

all the more reason for people to act and do things responsibly in these times....not vote yourself out of a job, knowing what's going on around us!:(

[MacGyver]

The union members are now getting cold feet and are asking for a re-vote. They have until midnight Saturday to make that happen.

[Offshoredrillin]

there is still all of Africa as an untouched source of cheap labor.......there is a hell of a long ways to go before things even out.......

Go rent "Roots" and tell me how that turned out for us....

[Offshoredrillin]

AMF, the evo came out in 82 or 83 and they stopped putting so much imported crap into the M/C. the Japanese use the harley turnaround as a perfect example of kaizan.
the evo/blockhead hit the market in 85, along with belt drive secondary, 85 softails and low rides were still chain, along with the new concept of rubber mounting/isolated motor mounts.

[MarylandMark]

The union members are now getting cold feet and are asking for a re-vote. They have until midnight Saturday to make that happen.

Company says the offer stands but the unions own rules won't let them vote on the same issue twice. Talk tough, call the companies bluff = o sheet when reality sets in.

[VtSteve]

I haven't seen what they are voting on. How would the company deal change what employees currently have?

[MacGyver]

They aired a union member interview this morning on the news. He said "I didn't think this would really happen". Well maybe you should have voted to keep your job then
:rolleyes:

[Ratickle]

They aired a union member interview this morning on the news. He said "I didn't think this would really happen". Well maybe you should have voted to keep your job then
:rolleyes:

I'm sure the union big boys (literally, I saw the pics), will tell them all will be okay .........:boxing_smiley:

[Chris]

They aired a union member interview this morning on the news. He said "I didn't think this would really happen". Well maybe you should have voted to keep your job then
:rolleyes:

How many times does it have to happen in other places for them to believe it's possible?

[Scarab KV]

They aired a union member interview this morning on the news. He said "I didn't think this would really happen". Well maybe you should have voted to keep your job then
:rolleyes:

Imagine that:leaving:

[MacGyver]

I'm sure the union big boys (literally, I saw the pics), will tell them all will be okay .........:boxing_smiley:

Then he'll say "Has anyone seen my sandwich?" :26:

[MacGyver]

Now the union leaders says no re-vote will happen.....




Union Leaders Say There Will Be No Re-vote of Mercury Marine Contract
Updated: Aug 27, 2009 4:23 PM CDT
By Natalie Arnold

Mercury Marine says it's deal to keep manufacturing jobs in Fond du Lac is still on the table until midnight Saturday, and petitions are circulating at the plant calling for another vote on the contract.

But the machinists union at Mercury Marine tells Action 2 News there will be no re-vote on the company's final contract offer.

Union members voted down the company's offer Sunday. It included concessions Mercury Marine officials claim are needed to keep the company competitive and keep about 2,000 jobs in Fond du Lac.

Union workers overwhelmingly rejected the offer in a vote Sunday. Forty-five minutes later, Mercury Marine announced it would begin moving its manufacturing operations to Stillwater, Oklahoma -- a process it says will take two to three years.

The questions about whether the union could even have a second vote on the contract offer seem to have been answered.

"Our international, at this point in time, the changes that we made, the issues that I typed up and clarified that came out of the proposal, doesn't seem to be enough," union coordinator Dan Longsine said.

Also saying no is the union's chief negotiator, Russell Krings. He told Action 2 News over the phoned us, "For us to re-vote there needs to be a substantial change in the contract."

Mercury Marine's response is the same it's been since the first vote on Sunday.

"The contract is what it is in order to make the company competitive, and therefore we are not able to open the contract and make changes," company spokesman Steve Fleming said.

It's an answer that continues to make the union leadership angry. The union says if given the chance, they believe the two sides could reach a compromise.

But Mercury Marine isn't budging and now apparently neither is the union.

Governor Jim Doyle says the State has offered Mercury Marine an aggressive incentive package to stay in Fond du Lac.

Though he did not go into details about what's in the package, the governor said, "This incentive package is built on economic development programs created in my recent budget with these situations in mind. These incentives are 'performance-based,' and in order for the company to maximize the full value of the incentives it must meet certain milestones including the creation and retention of nearly 2,700 jobs and maintaining a significant presence in Fond du Lac for 12 years."

The Fond du Lac County Board has a special meeting Thursday night to review another incentive package to keep Mercury Marine's corporate headquarters in Fond du Lac. That would save about 800 salaried jobs.

They're reviewing a package put together Wednesday by the Fond du Lac City Council. No details are being made public.

Mercury Marine wants it to include financial assistance for releasing new products, the city council president said.

[MacGyver]

At 10PM Saturday night, just 2 hours before Mercury's deadline, the union decided to have a re-vote. Results won't be known until later today.


FOND DU LAC — Fond du Lac city and county offers of incentive packages to keep Mercury Marine headquarters in Fond du Lac were moving forward in earnest Saturday.


County Executive Allen Buechel said the future would be focused on retaining Mercury's marketing, administration and research development operations in Fond du Lac.
Keeping the company's headquarters in Fond du Lac would mean saving up to 900 jobs.
Until late Saturday, it appeared the manufacturing portion of the operation (about 850 jobs) would be moving to Mercury's non-union plant in Stillwater, Okla.
About 10 p.m., however, union officials said they would be conducting a second vote on the contract that workers rejected earlier in the week.
They said the voting would begin Saturday night and could stretch into today.
Members of International Association of Machinists (IAM) and Aerospace Workers Lodge 1947 were given a midnight Saturday deadline to accept a modified contract that called for a seven-year wage freeze and a 30 percent pay cut for new hires and laid-off employees called back to work. Other major changes included higher health-care costs and mandatory overtime.
The incentive packages would be modified from stronger offers, Buechel said, when an agreement would have involved moving hundreds of jobs from Stillwater to Fond du Lac and growing the community's largest manufacturer.
Company spokesman Mark Lee said Saturday that although a final decision on the headquarters has not been set, company officials have been using Labor Day as an approximation.

Meanwhile, IAM Lodge 1947 leadership had been calling for additional meetings with the company rather than a second vote. The IAM said it was time for a new round of labor negotiations with the company.
"These workers and this community deserve more than a rushed process with an artificial deadline that failed to deliver a solution that worked for everyone," said Philip Gruber, an IAM Midwest territory vice president, in a statement.
Gruber said the union is prepared to meet anytime, anywhere, to create a proposal that fairly addresses the needs of "this company and the future of the community."

City Manager Tom Herre said there are still too many things in play to look far into the future.
"I remain optimistic as we continue discussions about company headquarters," he said.
Gov. Jim Doyle called the state's incentive offer to Mercury "aggressive" and built on his economic development programs.
"These incentives are 'performance-based' and in order for the company to maximize the full value of the incentives, it must meet certain milestones, including the creation and retention of nearly 2,700 jobs and maintaining a significant presence in Fond du Lac for 12 years," Doyle said Friday in a press release.
Lee said the company's decision was final when the union turned down the contract proposal.
The process of transitioning jobs to Stillwater would take between 24 and 36 months. The transition plan would include scheduled layoffs, Lee said.
The current union contract with Fond du Lac workers runs until 2012.

[Ratickle]

Interesting. Hope they save the company. Also hope they toss the union and start over with some decent, local, labor organization, (in house union), to work with Mercury instead of against......

[phragle]

Hopefully Darwinism will prevail....Anyone living under the false reality that they are entitled to $25~$30 an hour for inserting bolt 'B' into hole 'C' all day long with no further knowledge or critical thinking needed is simply dellusional. Destined to implode when finally confronted with reality.

[VtSteve]

Now the union leaders says no re-vote will happen.....




Union Leaders Say There Will Be No Re-vote of Mercury Marine Contract
Updated: Aug 27, 2009 4:23 PM CDT
By Natalie Arnold

Mercury Marine says it's deal to keep manufacturing jobs in Fond du Lac is still on the table until midnight Saturday, and petitions are circulating at the plant calling for another vote on the contract.

But the machinists union at Mercury Marine tells Action 2 News there will be no re-vote on the company's final contract offer.

Union members voted down the company's offer Sunday. It included concessions Mercury Marine officials claim are needed to keep the company competitive and keep about 2,000 jobs in Fond du Lac.

Union workers overwhelmingly rejected the offer in a vote Sunday. Forty-five minutes later, Mercury Marine announced it would begin moving its manufacturing operations to Stillwater, Oklahoma -- a process it says will take two to three years.

The questions about whether the union could even have a second vote on the contract offer seem to have been answered.

"Our international, at this point in time, the changes that we made, the issues that I typed up and clarified that came out of the proposal, doesn't seem to be enough," union coordinator Dan Longsine said.

Also saying no is the union's chief negotiator, Russell Krings. He told Action 2 News over the phoned us, "For us to re-vote there needs to be a substantial change in the contract."

Mercury Marine's response is the same it's been since the first vote on Sunday.

"The contract is what it is in order to make the company competitive, and therefore we are not able to open the contract and make changes," company spokesman Steve Fleming said.

It's an answer that continues to make the union leadership angry. The union says if given the chance, they believe the two sides could reach a compromise.

But Mercury Marine isn't budging and now apparently neither is the union.

Governor Jim Doyle says the State has offered Mercury Marine an aggressive incentive package to stay in Fond du Lac.

Though he did not go into details about what's in the package, the governor said, "This incentive package is built on economic development programs created in my recent budget with these situations in mind. These incentives are 'performance-based,' and in order for the company to maximize the full value of the incentives it must meet certain milestones including the creation and retention of nearly 2,700 jobs and maintaining a significant presence in Fond du Lac for 12 years."

The Fond du Lac County Board has a special meeting Thursday night to review another incentive package to keep Mercury Marine's corporate headquarters in Fond du Lac. That would save about 800 salaried jobs.

They're reviewing a package put together Wednesday by the Fond du Lac City Council. No details are being made public.

Mercury Marine wants it to include financial assistance for releasing new products, the city council president said.

Assistance for "releasing new products? Hard to say what's going on without facts and figures. Also hard to say what the state and local governments have to pay to get them to stay. An awful lot of companies decry government regulations and all, but they almost never do anything without government help.

One has to wonder how attractive manufacturing jobs will be once they move the jobs South. Is this a case where good paying jobs are a thing of the past, and Americans will not only be paying for government incentives for the company's to stay, while having pay reduced 50%? Manufacturing jobs have been moving overseas and elsewhere since the 80's, when it became easy for them to do so. Certain tax benefits (paid for by US), have enabled it to happen. Obviously, some states are easier to deal with than others, but one has to look at historical changes to see how it's actually panned out.

At any rate, everyone's in the same boat, so to speak.
Interesting perspective...
http://bloggingblue.com/2009/08/24/my-thoughts-on-mercury-marine-the-iamaw/comment-page-2/

"Earlier tonight I mentioned that union workers at the Mercury Marine plant in Fond Du Lac rejected contract concessions that would have included a 30% wage cut for new hires and employees called back from layoffs and severely slashed retirement and severance benefits, in addition to the 7-year wage freeze union members had already accepted as part of their last negotiated contract with Mercury Marine. While some conservatives have been quick to attack union members for voting to kill their own jobs.. "

They had already shipped a bunch of jobs to China. I doubt anyone here would be tickled pink if their own jobs had the same changes offered to them.

[MacGyver]

I doubt anyone here would be tickled pink if their own jobs had the same changes offered to them.

I wouldn't be happy, but I'd still have a job. The unemployment rate in Fond du Lac county is already over 12%.

[Ratickle]

Is this a case where good paying jobs are a thing of the past, and Americans will not only be paying for government incentives for the company's to stay, while having pay reduced 50%?

Yes, unless government does something completely different than what they currently do which drives companies completely away from manufacturing in the US.

There was a funny (sick) one here last week. Michigan gave huge tax incentives, as did Holland, so Howard Miller could add 400 jobs. Come to find out that is less than 1/3 of their reductions, and every job is coming from closing a facility in Canada where they went in the first place to save money.

So, drive them out with the highest corporate taxes in the world, lure them back with zero taxes for 12 years. New jobs, Woo Woo!!!!!! Dumb-azzes

Michigan Democrat job creations.....:boxing_smiley:

[MacGyver]

Looks like the union shouldn't have waited until the last minute.

FOND DU LAC - The union that represents hundreds of workers at Mercury Marine in Fond du Lac ran out of time Saturday night to vote "yes" on a package of contract concessions that the boat engine maker said it needed to remain profitable. Mercury Marine will now start moving jobs out of the state.

"The proposal lapsed and therefore the contract proposal time expired," said Steve Fleming, a company spokesperson.

"This coming week or two we will finalize details of programs that we have with the governments of Oklahoma and Stillwater as well as Wisconsin and Fond du Lac. We expect to be moving work from Fond du Lac to Stillwater by the end of the year."

The union had gathered for a second vote on the concessions package at around 10 o'clock Saturday night, about a week after it overwhelmingly rejected the deal.

Mercury Marine had repeatedly said the deadline for a "yes" vote was midnight, and the union just couldn't assemble enough people in time.

One of the reasons for this was confusion among union members, as some believed the deadline had been extended into late Sunday.

The company said it never approved such an extension.

"That was never agreed upon by us," said Fleming. "We responded to them when we heard that had gone out and we reiterated at that time that the deadline remained midnight."

JOBS MOVING

A couple hours after the deadline passed, the company released a statement saying it will be moving the 850 union manufacturing jobs to the non-union plant in Oklahoma.

The future of the company's corporate headquarters, which includes more than 1,000 additional jobs, still remains in question. Company officials say "in the near future" they expect to make a decision on to what extent the headquarters will remain in Fond du Lac.

Mercury Marine's post-deadline statement included this message from the company's president Mark Schwabero:

“We want to personally thank the business and community leaders of Fond du Lac and Stillwater, our local and state government officials and all of the committed employees of Mercury Marine who have supported us and given us their full effort during this difficult process. This has been a very difficult and stressful time for all involved but, as we said at the beginning of this process, it is our responsibility to make the best business decisions for the company to have a sustainable future."

[MacGyver]

Stillwater in jumping for joy right now.

[MacGyver]

More...


Second Mercury Marine Contract Vote Termed Invalid

Mercury Marine union members got their opportunity for a second vote on a proposed contract from the company, but it turned out too little too late Saturday night. Two-hundred and fifty workers cast their ballots before midnight, but the company stuck to its deadline and declared the results invalid. Union negotiator Rollie Chase says as a result the company official they talked to on the phone, Mercury Vice President of Human Resources Ray Atchinson, termed it a rejection. Mercury spokesman Steve Fleming says they'll start developing their plan for consolidation of manufacturing jobs to Stillwater, Oklahoma. He says it will take some time now to make a decision about plans for Mercury's corporate headquarters. Fleming says there's still some work that has to be done with state and local officials before that decision is reached.


8/30/09 - 2:16am: Mercury Issues Press Release

Mercury Marine Proposal Lapses Without Acceptance by IAM


FOND Du LAC, Wis., (August 30, 2009) - Mercury Marine on Sunday confirmed that the contract proposal formally rejected by union members Aug. 23 expired at midnight Friday, Aug. 29, without acceptance by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM).

The IAM conducted a last-minute vote on the original proposal terms and conditions but did not complete the process to a definitive conclusion prior to the expiration of the proposal.

As a result, Mercury said it will continue to operate the Fond du Lac facility under the terms and conditions of the existing contract, which expires in 2012. Manufacturing workers in Fond du Lac are represented by the IAM, Local chapter 1947. As previously announced, the company will now begin the transition planning process to its Stillwater, Okla., facility.

"We want to personally thank the business and community leaders of Fond du Lac and Stillwater, our local and state government officials and all of the committed employees of Mercury Marine who have supported us and given us their full effort during this difficult process," said Mark Schwabero, president of Mercury Marine. "This has been a very difficult and stressful time for all involved but, as we said at the beginning of this process, it is our responsibility to make the best business decisions for the company to have a sustainable future.

"We will work closely with our teams in Fond du Lac and Stillwater to develop and communicate a smooth transition plan which we hope to implement with minimal disruption to our business and the communities."

In light of extreme economic conditions that necessitate the consolidation of its manufacturing capacity, Mercury had submitted a contract proposal to the union leadership that would have enabled the Fond du Lac facility to more effectively compete in a different, much smaller market.

Mercury said it expects to finalize the details of state and local programs over the next few days and that detailed plans for the transition will be announced as they become available. The company expects the full consolidation to take between 24 and 36 months.

"As we begin the planning process, we value the ongoing support of our community, employees and local officials," Mr. Schwabero said. "We will continue to communicate regularly and openly as transition decisions are made over the coming months."

[Ratickle]

They better move fast. Those employees will be sabotaging everything instead of lynching their union reps like they should.

[MacGyver]

I have a feeling Governor Doyle will be stepping in and begging Mercury to have a timely re-vote.

[phragle]

the tax break/incentive type deal to lure and or keep buisiness is a big mess just waiting to happen.

[Ratickle]

the tax break/incentive type deal to lure and or keep buisiness is a big mess just waiting to happen.

I think you mean already happening.

In Michigan , they give the deals by having companies promise to create more jobs with the tax savings. Then, when you try to check how well it worked, the results are illegal for the Executive branch to give out, so no one knows.:boxing_smiley:

[Magicfloat]

If I were going to buy a new Merc outboard,I would have the dealer check the build date.It is very easy to do if you have the engine serial #.

[Ratickle]

If I were going to buy a new Merc outboard,I would have the dealer check the build date.It is very easy to do if you have the engine serial #.

Which models are made at which locations?

And, does the same union represent both locations? Or, with Oklahoma being right to work, no union there?

[phragle]

I think you mean already happening.

In Michigan , they give the deals by having companies promise to create more jobs with the tax savings. Then, when you try to check how well it worked, the results are illegal for the Executive branch to give out, so no one knows.:boxing_smiley:


I am wondering if property/buisness/income taxes can legally be selectively imposed in the first place...I believe it must somehow be some kind of discrimination. If you have a company building widgets and your faithfully paying your taxes, and the city lures another widget company with promises of no taxes, free water and sewage, a new driveway and parkinglot plus zoning variances... how is that fair for your company? how does that help the local economy when company A (who has been paying all along) realizes that if they move 2 states over, they can get a deal where they don't pay taxes etc..... company A would be stupid NOT to move.l

[Ratickle]

Yep, that's what happens when we elect idiots who major in politics. It is something the Feds should step in on because it is interstate commerce in my oinion. But they won't, they're all on the bribe payrolls.

[VtSteve]

I am wondering if property/buisness/income taxes can legally be selectively imposed in the first place...I believe it must somehow be some kind of discrimination. If you have a company building widgets and your faithfully paying your taxes, and the city lures another widget company with promises of no taxes, free water and sewage, a new driveway and parkinglot plus zoning variances... how is that fair for your company? how does that help the local economy when company A (who has been paying all along) realizes that if they move 2 states over, they can get a deal where they don't pay taxes etc..... company A would be stupid NOT to move.l

It is and endless cycle. Most companies do what is expedient and short-term profitable to do. They don't have much long range vision, but state and local governments always give them the benefit of the doubt. If you give them some freebies, they'll take them. The actual terms of the deals are never really interpreted as being a contract to the companies, so you'd be a fool to rely on them long term.

I suspect the people of Stillwater and surrounding areas will find this out at some point, the same as every other locale has. I seriously doubt that, with current ownership and management, Mercury can be relied on long term no matter where they locate. It always sounds great when you read their claims and problems, but when you follow the situation to the end, all you generally find is one of management problems and mistakes continually addressing long term problems with short term solutions.

I believe their shareholders are all too familiar with their decision making.

[MacGyver]

Even though Mercury's offer expired last night, the union continues to vote all day today and again tomorrow. I have a feeling the union members are having a change of heart and I hope Mercury will honor the latest vote.

[Buoy]

Even though Mercury's offer expired last night, the union continues to vote all day today and again tomorrow. I have a feeling the union members are having a change of heart and I hope Mercury will honor the latest vote.

In many ways, I agree.
But Mercury... why should they honor the vote?
The union was greedy, and felt it couldn't be replaced. When Merc said "OK, see ya later, bye!"
Now the union realize they don't hold the trump card.
Merc put out a deadline to make a deal - the union didn't meet the deadline.
Merc will incur expense to move the machinery, and tooling, and hiring new employees and training.
But, in the big picture, what is best for Merc?
I understand this affects guys like you and Wayne that live in that area, and Merc is a major job source for the area. It affects the entire area financially. "Sarah's sandwich shack" won't have any lunch customers anymore... etc, etc...
But, they did it to themselves.

[MacGyver]

Its just sad to see Mercury Marine on the brink of leaving Wisconsin. The cascade effect of them leaving will be enormous. It's too bad the fat cats at the union hall didn't see the big picture either.

[sledge]

I am wondering if property/buisness/income taxes can legally be selectively imposed in the first place...

"Special tax district", and every municipality (city/county/state) typically reserves the right within their bylaws to establish whatever they want/need. In reality, you won't find many direct competitors having a wide disparity of tax incentives within the same municipality. At some point the state will step in to equal things out.

[Buoy]

Its just sad to see Mercury Marine on the brink of leaving Wisconsin. The cascade effect of them leaving will be enormous. It's too bad the fat cats at the union hall didn't see the big picture either.

Yes, you're absolutely correct. This will affect the entire community.
Look, Bucyrus is a small town, I haven't heard what is going on there since Reggie moved the Baja plant down to NC, but I imagine that there are many feeling the pain.
I've heard rumors that some of the talented guys in Bucyrus have struck out on their own, and I'm assuming the same will happen with the guys at Merc.
Personally, I wish them all the best, and hope that if they can provide a product or service that I need it will be mutually beneficial for me to do business with them.
I certainly feel the pain for the community. It's going to hurt.

[Scarab KV]

More...


Second Mercury Marine Contract Vote Termed Invalid

Mercury Marine union members got their opportunity for a second vote on a proposed contract from the company, but it turned out too little too late Saturday night. Two-hundred and fifty workers cast their ballots before midnight, but the company stuck to its deadline and declared the results invalid. Union negotiator Rollie Chase says as a result the company official they talked to on the phone, Mercury Vice President of Human Resources Ray Atchinson, termed it a rejection. Mercury spokesman Steve Fleming says they'll start developing their plan for consolidation of manufacturing jobs to Stillwater, Oklahoma. He says it will take some time now to make a decision about plans for Mercury's corporate headquarters. Fleming says there's still some work that has to be done with state and local officials before that decision is reached.


8/30/09 - 2:16am: Mercury Issues Press Release

Mercury Marine Proposal Lapses Without Acceptance by IAM


FOND Du LAC, Wis., (August 30, 2009) - Mercury Marine on Sunday confirmed that the contract proposal formally rejected by union members Aug. 23 expired at midnight Friday, Aug. 29, without acceptance by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM).

The IAM conducted a last-minute vote on the original proposal terms and conditions but did not complete the process to a definitive conclusion prior to the expiration of the proposal.

As a result, Mercury said it will continue to operate the Fond du Lac facility under the terms and conditions of the existing contract, which expires in 2012. Manufacturing workers in Fond du Lac are represented by the IAM, Local chapter 1947. As previously announced, the company will now begin the transition planning process to its Stillwater, Okla., facility.

"We want to personally thank the business and community leaders of Fond du Lac and Stillwater, our local and state government officials and all of the committed employees of Mercury Marine who have supported us and given us their full effort during this difficult process," said Mark Schwabero, president of Mercury Marine. "This has been a very difficult and stressful time for all involved but, as we said at the beginning of this process, it is our responsibility to make the best business decisions for the company to have a sustainable future.

"We will work closely with our teams in Fond du Lac and Stillwater to develop and communicate a smooth transition plan which we hope to implement with minimal disruption to our business and the communities."

In light of extreme economic conditions that necessitate the consolidation of its manufacturing capacity, Mercury had submitted a contract proposal to the union leadership that would have enabled the Fond du Lac facility to more effectively compete in a different, much smaller market.

Mercury said it expects to finalize the details of state and local programs over the next few days and that detailed plans for the transition will be announced as they become available. The company expects the full consolidation to take between 24 and 36 months.

"As we begin the planning process, we value the ongoing support of our community, employees and local officials," Mr. Schwabero said. "We will continue to communicate regularly and openly as transition decisions are made over the coming months."

What part of Dead Line don't they understand??

[Scarab KV]

In many ways, I agree.
But Mercury... why should they honor the vote?
The union was greedy, and felt it couldn't be replaced. When Merc said "OK, see ya later, bye!"
Now the union realize they don't hold the trump card.
Merc put out a deadline to make a deal - the union didn't meet the deadline.
Merc will incur expense to move the machinery, and tooling, and hiring new employees and training.
But, in the big picture, what is best for Merc?
I understand this affects guys like you and Wayne that live in that area, and Merc is a major job source for the area. It affects the entire area financially. "Sarah's sandwich shack" won't have any lunch customers anymore... etc, etc...
But, they did it to themselves.

Article in the paper the other night estimated 6,000 jobs lost when figuring employees from satelite companies, health care facilities for Merc's insurance, etc. :(

[Scarab KV]

Its just sad to see Mercury Marine on the brink of leaving Wisconsin. The cascade effect of them leaving will be enormous. It's too bad the fat cats at the union hall didn't see the big picture either.

For what it's worth. The head dude for the union is losing his big fancy shack to forclosure.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy:sifone:

[Buoy]

Article in the paper the other night estimated 6,000 jobs lost when figuring employees from satelite companies, health care facilities for Merc's insurance, etc. :(

Yep, it's a hard hit to the the entire financial structure there. It won't be pretty.

[boatme]

What part of Dead Line don't they understand??

Just one more example of union arrogance Now they think they can negociate a deadline
:beatdeadhorse5::eek::smash:

[catastrophe]

I would bet that when the union sees actual planning for the move to begin they will back up quick.
Neither one has blinked yet.
Its Mercury's move now.
If the union sees them purchase anything of signifigance to prove the move is going to happen, guaranteed they will cave.

The union leaders must have friends and family that work there.

[Offshoredrillin]

I would bet that when the union sees actual planning for the move to begin they will back up quick.
Neither one has blinked yet.
Its Mercury's move now.
If the union sees them purchase anything of signifigance to prove the move is going to happen, guaranteed they will cave.

The union leaders must have friends and family that work there.
they wont move for two years.

[catastrophe]

they wont move for two years.


Never going to happen.

This whole thing is first move in a chess game.

Mercury's move next.

[jayboat]

For what it's worth. The head dude for the union is losing his big fancy shack to forclosure.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy:sifone:

Kaarma arrives in many forms. :)

[catastrophe]

While we are here can someone post the answer to the following.


Price for #6 drive 2004.....2009
Price for 525 2004.....2009


Any wage classificaion 2004
Same classification 2009

[THEJOKER]

Which models are made at which locations?

And, does the same union represent both locations? Or, with Oklahoma being right to work, no union there?


Where are the 300 Verados built?

[catastrophe]

Where are the 300 Verados built?

Actually thats a good question.

I have 4 of them on my boat and so far I'm not impressed.

[Scarab KV]

Yep, it's a hard hit to the the entire financial structure there. It won't be pretty.

I'm not gonna Begin to blame the closing of our shop on this mess, but we did see a significant drop in floor traffic when this all started. People here are on pins and needles. Was never a good subject to bring up with customers unless you knew their stance. The outsiders seen it as greed and the insiders were ever loyal to their beloved union beliefs.

[Steve 1]

It is not as though one can simply go across the street and get a similar job, Do the union reps have any Idea as to how Mercury is to pay for their Demands? Of course Not! none of them have run a business otherwise they would see the current environment and the condition the marine industry is in. they need to be looking for another “Host” to bite into.

[Sea-Dated]

Stillwater in jumping for joy right now.

Yes we are.......

I do feel bad for the workers in FDL but they did bring it on themselves....

[Sea-Dated]

Which models are made at which locations?

And, does the same union represent both locations? Or, with Oklahoma being right to work, no union there?

Oklahoma is a right to work state. Union free and proud.

[Wrinkleface]

Actually thats a good question.

I have 4 of them on my boat and so far I'm not impressed.

Hope they weren't built when this party started!!!!!:eek::leaving:

[DollaBill]

It sucks that the empoyees that were caught in the middle of this will suffer, but.........

I'm glad Mercury is sticking to it's guns and moving.

[MacGyver]

Yes we are.......

I do feel bad for the workers in FDL but they did bring it on themselves....

Grrrrrrrr:reddevil::boxing_smiley::dupe:

[MacGyver]

Maybe the union phucktard leaders should look this up:

Deadline:

1. A date on or before which something must be completed.
2. A time limit, as for payment of a debt or completion of an assignment.

[MacGyver]

Mercury made it very, very clear that the deadline was Saturday 11:59 PM.

[Scarab KV]

Guess I'm gonna have to change my av line

[MacGyver]

Guess I'm gonna have to change my av line

Mercury has been a Wisconsin fixure for 70 years. It'll be sad to see them leave.

[Ratickle]

Guess I'm gonna have to change my av line


Mercury has been a Wisconsin fixure for 70 years. It'll be sad to see them leave.

If everything else is gone, the headquarters won't stay either......

[MacGyver]

If everything else is gone, the headquarters won't stay either......

Probably not. Gov. Doyle is pushing Mercury to at least keep the corporate headquarters in Wisconsin, but after the latest debacle, I don't see Mercury having any interest in being in Wisconsin any more.

[Ratickle]

Probably not. Gov. Doyle is pushing Mercury to at least keep the corporate headquarters in Wisconsin, but after the latest debacle, I don't see Mercury having any interest in being in Wisconsin any more.

There would be no point. Just to increase the cost of travel from Stillwater????? Instead of walk across the street?????

[DollaBill]

Mercury has been a Wisconsin fixure for 70 years. It'll be sad to see them leave.

maybe this could be the start of the "people" looking at unions and how they killed the country

[Ratickle]

maybe this could be the start of the "people" looking at unions and how they killed the country

I told a union organizer in 2000 that within 15 years the only union members left would be those who worked in the public sector where they don't have to compete with anyone. Looks like we're going faster than I predicted.

The plant he organized lasted three years after the union won the right to organize.

[MacGyver]

There would be no point. Just to increase the cost of travel from Stillwater????? Instead of walk across the street?????

Yup. They are gonna be gone, 100% :(


I drove down to Fond du Lac today to a jobsite and went right past the Mercury plant. Hard to imagine that place empty in two years.

[Scarab KV]

Probably not. Gov. Doyle is pushing Mercury to at least keep the corporate headquarters in Wisconsin, but after the latest debacle, I don't see Mercury having any interest in being in Wisconsin any more.

You bet he does. Doyle would love to still be able to tax all thier product even though not manufactured here.

[C_Spray]

On the human side of things, will some of the workers (especially the ones that voted FOR the new contract terms) be offered any kind of relocation package? It wouldn't have to be super-generous, just enough to allow those that want to stay with the company to do so. After all, it's the employees that really believe in the company that you want to keep. The ones that punch the clock only because they have to are easily replaced.

[Ratickle]

Most corporations I know would offer re-location packages only to "key" people like engineers etc. who cannot easily be replaced. No others.

As for the rank and file, usually a transfer for those interested with the new wage being adjusted to the difference in averages for COL in the two locations. Stillwater is 17% less average wage in the area than Fond, and the COL is 12% less.

[sledge]

I think they'd be walking a tight rope if they "offered" relocation as an invitation. That would have to be a sticky idea given the union BS. But if they happened to "apply" for work in OK, then I'd hope the company would see fit to offer relo reimbursement for a skilled and experienced employee.

From a management perspective, I'd hate to see a bunch of union whiny b!tches come down and infest my new location. But you can't say anything about them not bringing the union crap with them because that would be illegal. Just gotta hope that the ones that are motivated enough to want to move with the company realize the errors of their ways...

[Magicfloat]

Wonder how Mercury Racing division will be affected? Are they union?

[phragle]

On the human side of things, will some of the workers (especially the ones that voted FOR the new contract terms) be offered any kind of relocation package? It wouldn't have to be super-generous, just enough to allow those that want to stay with the company to do so. After all, it's the employees that really believe in the company that you want to keep. The ones that punch the clock only because they have to are easily replaced.



that would be problematic, I'm willing to bet that when negotiating with the new location for tax breaks, infrastructure etc., the golden carrot being dangled in todays economy was " we will bring XXX amount of jobs" . If you import workers instead of hiring/training locals, you negate that fact. Also, when you do contract voting, you show your union card and drop your ballot in the box. There is now way of knowing what employee voted for or against the contract. Given the nature of some union people, and the desperation of some people seeing their livelyhood to evaporate, unless you could instantly move out of the area, would you want people knowing how you voted?

[Steve 1]

It is NOT how many voted for or against ! The people who count the votes control the outcome ! Now in the case of a Union I would be highly suspect.

[T2x]

Wonder how Mercury Racing division will be affected? Are they union?

I believe the racing division has been merged into the general company some months ago.

[Ratickle]

It is NOT how many voted for or against ! The people who count the votes control the outcome ! Now in the case of a Union I would be highly suspect.

You kinda lost me. All union elections have to have NLRB oversight I believe. Plus representatives from the union and company both. At least every one I was ever involved with.

[Steve 1]

You kinda lost me. All union elections have to have NLRB oversight I believe. Plus representatives from the union and company both. At least every one I was ever involved with.

Yes I have worked in Union shops also and saw something a little different.

[VtSteve]

From what I understand of the primary issues, it's the laid off employees being called back that would be on the bottom again. This article points to wages of $20/hour and higher for some employees depending on their jobs. $11 to $13 for people called back or new hires. With well over 100 contract changes, who knows what else would have changed.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/54321942.html

When things are bad, a job seems better than no job. But long term, I would think the revisions would have a substantial impact on both the employees and the region. I have no idea what the employees in Stillwater make now, but we'll see how this works out for them.

In the end, without a strong middle class that actually has a standard of living, you have no customers. I'm certainly not sticking up for the union here, nor any unions. But this all harkens back to Ross Perot's Giant Sucking Sound. In the end, the new boss will be the same as the old boss. Only cheaper.

[Steve 1]

Everything is Economy based now with Communists in power (thanks too the unions) we are in for a rough ride. There is NO Magic here so how can Mercury pay if the money is not there and if the union employees are too stupid to see that LITTLE fact then how can you reason with them or feel pity.

[Ratickle]

Everything is Economy based now with Communists in power (thanks too the unions)

That is one of the ultimate ironies.........


The Unions have done more to get Democrats (Socialists & Liberals), elected than any other long term group of voters.

In turn, the Democrats (Socialists & Liberals), have done more to put them out of work and send their jobs out of the country (and give major portions of their earnings to those who don't work), than any other political party, or business entity.

[THEJOKER]

Where are the 300 Verados built? Does anybody know?

[Magicfloat]

Fond du Lac

[VtSteve]

Just from their Annual Report.

Mercury Marine’s sterndrive and outboard engines are produced primarily in Oklahoma and Wisconsin, respectively.
Mercury Marine manufactures 40, 50 and 60 horsepower four-stroke outboard engines in a facility in China, and, in a joint
venture with its partner, Tohatsu Corporation, produces smaller outboard engines in Japan. Some engine components are
sourced from Asian suppliers. Mercury Marine also manufactures engine component parts at plants in Florida and Mexico.
Diesel marine propulsion systems are manufactured in South Carolina by CMD. Further, Mercury Marine operates a
remanufacturing business for engines and service parts in Wisconsin.
In addition to its marine engine operations, Mercury Marine serves markets outside the United States with a wide range of
aluminum, fiberglass and inflatable boats produced either by, or for, Mercury Marine in China, New Zealand, Poland, Portugal,
Russia and Sweden. These boats, which are marketed under the brand names Arvor, Bermuda, Guernsey, Legend, Lodestar,
Mercury, Örnvik, Protector, Quicksilver, Uttern and Valiant, are typically equipped with engines manufactured by Mercury
Marine and often include other parts and accessories supplied by Mercury Marine. Mercury Marine has an equity ownership
interest in a company that manufactures boats under the brand names Aquador, Bella and Flipper in Finland. Mercury Marine
also manufactures propellers and underwater sterngear for inboard-powered vessels, under the Teignbridge brand, in the United
Kingdom.
Inter-company sales to the Boat Group represented approximately 17 percent of Mercury Marine sales in 2008. Domestic
retail demand for the Marine Engine segment’s products is seasonal, with sales generally highest in the second calendar quarter
of the year.

[phragle]

That is one of the ultimate ironies.........


The Unions have done more to get Democrats (Socialists & Liberals), elected than any other long term group of voters.

In turn, the Democrats (Socialists & Liberals), have done more to put them out of work and send their jobs out of the country (and give major portions of their earnings to those who don't work), than any other political party, or business entity.



you dont have to be smart to join a union, you just have to drink the kool aid

[MacGyver]

Well, the fat lady hasn't sung just yet......

The news tonight reported another official re-vote will happen, but a date hasn't been announced. Maybe Mercury will stay after all???

[Steve 1]

Well, the fat lady hasn't sung just yet......

The news tonight reported another official re-vote will happen, but a date hasn't been announced. Maybe Mercury will stay after all???

Maybe intelligence will prevail here and they will vote wisely this time!

[BBB725]

Well, the fat lady hasn't sung just yet......

The news tonight reported another official re-vote will happen, but a date hasn't been announced. Maybe Mercury will stay after all???

Union vote will be Thursday and Friday, Mercury also approved to accept the revote. Hopefully third times a charm

[rbhudelson]

Well, the fat lady hasn't sung just yet......

The news tonight reported another official re-vote will happen, but a date hasn't been announced. Maybe Mercury will stay after all???

Now the company has lost its mind. Why would you want to stay in bed with leadership of this union?

[Magicfloat]

Mercury had no intention of leaving FDL.They just wanted concessions from the union and used Stillwater as a big stick. Don't ever get in a poker game with Merc's president.

[Wrinkleface]

That is one of the ultimate ironies.........


The Unions have done more to get Democrats (Socialists & Liberals), elected than any other long term group of voters.

In turn, the Democrats (Socialists & Liberals), have done more to put them out of work and send their jobs out of the country (and give major portions of their earnings to those who don't work), than any other political party, or business entity.

:banghead:

[MetalBrosRacing]

If they stay it will be one of the dumbest business decisions ever.

[Sea-Dated]

If they stay it will be one of the dumbest business decisions ever.

I have to agree

[Wrinkleface]

you dont have to be smart to join a union, you just have to drink the kool aid

& pay the dues!!!:willy_nilly:

[DENNY B]

Mercury had no intention of leaving FDL.They just wanted concessions from the union and used Stillwater as a big stick. Don't ever get in a poker game with Merc's president.
I agree with Robert here.

[MacGyver]

Voting will be tomorrow and Friday from 6AM to 6PM.

[Ratickle]

Will be interesting.......



As far as staying, we'll see. If they do, my guess is the Union will change somewhat.

[MacGyver]

If they stay it will be one of the dumbest business decisions ever.

Maybe not. If they get the union to agree to the concessions, thats great. But Wisconsin is also giving huge incentives for Mercury to stay. The city and county are doing what they can too.

[BBB725]

Voting ends in 15 minutes. I'm guessing the results will be available around 8PM.

The local paper said voting on Thursday Friday, I guess I'm a day late

[MacGyver]

Now the company has lost its mind. Why would you want to stay in bed with leadership of this union?

I have a feeling that the "leadership" of this local union will be voted out very quickly.

[MacGyver]

The local paper said voting on Thursday Friday, I guess I'm a day late

Which local are you in right now :D I'm guessing north.

[MacGyver]

The local paper said voting on Thursday Friday, I guess I'm a day late

The news this morning said the vote was today, but tonights news says it's tomorrow and Friday.

Brooks, you are correct :)

[MacGyver]

Will be interesting.......



As far as staying, we'll see. If they do, my guess is the Union will change somewhat.

The changes are happening already. The union's chief negotiator announced he resigned Monday. Dan Longsine cited a poor working relationship with the union leadership :rolleyes:

[BBB725]

Which local are you in right now :D I'm guessing north.

North until at least November.

[Scarab KV]

North until at least November.

Just when the weather starts get'n nice.:biggrinjester:

[Ratickle]

North until at least November.

Done with the horses for the year? My sister has the Nationals in a couple weeks at Lamplight in Wayne, IL.

[Uncle Dave]

The changes are happening already. The union's chief negotiator announced he resigned Monday. Dan Longsine cited a poor working relationship with the union leadership :rolleyes:

Nice Negotiation skills there Union Leaders Way to go-!

Rather than negotiating any concessions so your guys could look for new work while still employed now all 580 of you get to look for new jobs simultaneously ( they likely wont go offshore so thats point while valid in the broad sense doesn't apply here)

The guy should resign - the whole group of guys are now unemployed rather than a few.




UD

[MacGyver]

Day one of the re-vote has passed. Voting will resume tomorrow at 6 AM and continue until 6 PM. Hopefully we'll have a tally by 8 PM or so.

[robby200]

Made the Wall Street Journal:

SEPTEMBER 4, 2009 Two Cities in Fight Over Factory Jobs at Mercury

By JOE BARRETT
FOND DU LAC, Wis. -- As union workers at a Mercury Marine outboard-engine plant here vote on a contentious new contract, the fates of two cities hang in the balance.

This city of 43,000 on the southern tip of Lake Winnebago stands to lose many of Mercury's nearly 2,000 union and other jobs if workers reject the contract for a second time in less than two weeks. More than 800 miles away, Stillwater, Okla., a town of about the same size, is waiting to see if it will pick up many of those jobs or lose most of the 385 jobs at Mercury's plant there.

View Full Image

Associated Press

A sign urging a 'no' vote on the third round of balloting on the proposed Mercury Marine labor contract sits on the terrace Thursday at the Fond du Lac, Wis., Labor Center.
"It's an emotional time for both communities," says Tim Larkin, Fond du Lac's city council president.

In an added twist, the battle in Wisconsin is being led by workers who acted without the backing of their own union in a desperate attempt to save their jobs.

While the U.S. appears to be headed out of one of the steepest recessions in decades, companies are playing hardball with unions and even entire cities in an effort to cut costs, improve efficiency and push through changes that will help them perform better over the long term. Mercury Marine, a unit of Lake Forest, Ill.-based Brunswick Corp., has been offered undisclosed financial incentive packages by both Oklahoma and Wisconsin to try to sway the company one way or the other.

The Mercury episode shows how determined workers are to hold onto precious jobs in this economy. Mercury is Fond du Lac's largest employer and has produced outboard motors there for nearly 70 years. Mercury's jobs are critical in a city where unemployment hit 11.4% in July, up from 5.4% a year ago, according to the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development.

Mercury Marine's tale has taken some unexpected turns. When workers first saw management's contract proposal a few weeks ago, they were upset that it called for deep concessions, including a three-year wage freeze and higher out-of-pocket costs for health care, said Fred Toth, a 15-year company veteran.

When the proposal came up for a vote on Aug. 23, it was resoundingly rejected.

Most workers figured it was just the first round in a protracted battle. But on the night of the 23rd, Mercury said it would begin moving some of the 850 jobs in Fond du Lac to Stillwater. Another 900 salaried workers are employed at the facility, including at the corporate headquarters. Many of those jobs could also go to Stillwater if the vote stood.

Larry Brown, president of the Stillwater Chamber of Commerce, said he and other officials immediately started preparing for the influx of jobs.

But Mr. Toth and two friends from the plant, Rick Schmidt and Felipe Rodriguez, weren't giving up. They started gathering signatures on a petition for a new vote. By the end of last week, they had hundreds of signatures, but were thrown a curve when union officials said they were in the wrong format. Among other things, some signatures were illegible.

Undaunted, the trio started over Saturday afternoon in the rainy parking lot of a shuttered grocery store. They broadcast over local radio that they were still gathering signatures. Within about five hours, they had gathered more than 300 names.

"People came from Sheboygan, Madison, Wisconsin Dells. People showed up in suits from wedding receptions," Mr. Schmidt said.

That night, around 10 p.m., the union began another vote, trying to get as many ballots cast as possible before the old contract expired at midnight.

Mr. Brown in Oklahoma monitored events at his home computer until about 3 a.m. Sunday, when he felt satisfied by a management statement that the new vote wouldn't be accepted because the contract had expired. Union officials formally called off that vote Monday.

Both union and company officials declined to comment.

On Tuesday, union officials and Mercury managers met for more than two hours. Mercury agreed to allow yet another union vote. That evening, Mercury issued a statement saying workers who had expressed a desire for another vote deserved to be heard. Suddenly, there was optimism again in Wisconsin and confusion and anger in Oklahoma. "It's been a roller-coaster," Mr. Brown said.

Thursday and Friday, union workers are again casting ballots. Those in the "yes" camp are optimistic. "When we saw the contract for the first time, everyone you talked to said it was garbage," Mr. Rodriguez said. "But at least with this, you have a job."

Write to Joe Barrett at joseph.barrett@wsj.com

[Scarab KV]

Hmmmm....survival over greed.
What a concept.

[JupiterSunsation]

My guess is Mercury is going to give those guys the pink slips and teach the union a lesson. Union/Workers looking out for themselves instead of seeing the big picture is the issue.

[Ratickle]

The intersting part to me, the Union tried to keep their own people from re-voting for a contract??????

I hope they hang them and they never get a job again unless it's in a communist country (somewhere else). :boxing_smiley:

[MacGyver]

Looks like its gonna be a close vote. Should know in a few hours.

[phragle]

mayube they should have voted the union out.....

[MacGyver]

mayube they should have voted the union out.....

Maybe thats the master plan.

[Scarab KV]

Just had a customer in that works at Merc. He makes $28 an hour and his wife also works there, but didn't say what she makes. Says they can't afford even a 10% hit or they have to start sell'n things so they don't lose their house.

Had to really bite my tongue.

[phragle]

Just had a customer in that works at Merc. He makes $28 an hour and his wife also works there, but didn't say what she makes. Says they can't afford even a 10% hit or they have to start sell'n things so they don't lose their house.

Had to really bite my tongue.
I make $10 part time and live alone...if you have 2 people that live together making a combined 40~50 an hour and a $5.00 an hour hit is going to push them over the edge...they are living beyond their means to begin with... just my 2 cents...

[MacGyver]

Just had a customer in that works at Merc. He makes $28 an hour and his wife also works there, but didn't say what she makes. Says they can't afford even a 10% hit or they have to start sell'n things so they don't lose their house.

Had to really bite my tongue.

Wonder what he/they voted. Keep a job with a pay cut, or unemployment and mortgage foreclosure.

[Scarab KV]

I make $10 part time and live alone...if you have 2 people that live together making a combined 40~50 an hour and a $5.00 an hour hit is going to push them over the edge...they are living beyond their means to begin with... just my 2 cents...

Exactly why my tongue hurts.

When I took on this new venture, I took an 80% decrease in what I paid myself. We learned to live on that. Now granted we don't live in a house we can't afford and have over priced leased vehicles and boats in the driveway......ok, vehicles in the driveway:biggrinjester:

[Scarab KV]

The vote just passed.
It's yes

[MacGyver]

The vote just passed.
It's yes

Thats awesome for Wisconsin, but not so good for Stillwater.

[MacGyver]

The majority of union workers at Mercury Marine have voted yes on wage and benefit concessions to keep more than 800 jobs from moving to Oklahoma.

The union did not provide any numbers on the vote, only saying the contract was ratified.

Mercury Marine issued a statement ten minutes later, confirming it would transfer work from its plant in Stillwater, Oklahoma, to Fond du Lac. It expects that process to begin this year and take a year-and-a-half to two years.

Company president Mark Schwabero said in the statement, "After weeks of intense discussions and completion of the voting process, we accept the union's ratification of our contract proposal."

"Our employees in Stillwater and Fond du Lac, as well as the communities and the states of Oklahoma and Wisconsin, have been very supportive throughout this challenging period," he continued.

Local government officials plan a news conference at 8 P.M. to comment on the vote.

Mercury Marine is Fond du Lac's largest employer, with more than 2,000 employees.

The re-vote ended at 6 P.M. after 12 hours of voting on both Thursday and Friday. Union members tell Action 2 News just about every name on the voting list had been crossed off by 5 P.M.

A much smaller number of union members came to the labor center Friday after it was estimated more than 500 of the 800-some eligible workers voted.

Union members approved the same contract offer they overwhelmingly rejected almost two weeks ago. That contract includes wage freezes for seven years, increased health care costs, and pay cuts for new hires.

After a petition drive by employees and lobbying by local and state government officials, the company and union met Tuesday and came up with an agreement for a sanctioned re-vote clarifying some points of the contract offer.

Today we are hearing mixed opinions about the process -- some saying they're extremely happy to be able to re-vote and others saying the union should've just stood by the first vote.

Now, in comparison to the attitude and mood of the first vote, when just about every union member who spoke to the media was supporting a "no" vote, today the vast majority members being vocal are voting "yes."

It doesn't indicate how the vote will turn out but it appears to be a shift in the comfort level of some union members.

Wayne Belongia said he voted no. "I did not vote this way because of my job. Don't get me wrong, I did not vote this way because of my job. I voted this way because of what is in there.

"It ain't fair what they're doing to us, really, but try to find a job out there anywhere. It's not there. So I'm going to take what I can get," John Nigl, who voted yes, said.

One "no" voter told us the contract offers too much power to the company and that a yes vote could cause more turmoil than people realize.

One "yes" voter told us he'd rather have a fellow union member steal his car than steal his job by rejecting this contract.

Dave Gerlach, a yes voter, said, "They estimated 280 people will be taking that buyout and retiring, and that would probably open the door for another 250 to 300 people" to get jobs.

Another worker expressed that even if the contract passes he thinks he'll be laid off because Mercury will stop producing its two-cycle engines.

Union members were just as anxious as the rest of the community to find out the results.

[Scarab KV]

Mercury Marine will accept IAM Lodge 1947’s ratification of the company’s contract proposal, Mercury President Mark Schwabero said Friday evening.


Union workers have agreed to accept the same labor agreement they previously rejected Aug. 23.


As a result, Mercury said it will begin this year to consolidate manufacturing work in its Fond du Lac facilities.


A vote count was not released by the union, but officials of the International Association of Machinists (IAM) and Aerospace Workers on Friday evening confirmed that the two-day voting process resulted in union ratification of the proposal.


“After weeks of intense discussions and completion of the voting process, we accept the union’s ratification of our contract proposal,” said Schwabero in a statement. “As we’ve stated throughout this important process, comprehensive changes to wages, benefits and operational flexibility are necessary for Mercury to effectively compete in a smaller and fundamentally changed marketplace.”


Consolidation of work in Fond du Lac will include transition of work from the company’s Stillwater, Okla., facilities over the next 18 to 24 months.


Schwabero said he thanks the Stillwater community and Mercury Marine employees for their support.


“Our employees in Stillwater and Fond du Lac, as well as the communities and the states of Oklahoma and Wisconsin, have been very supportive throughout this challenging period,” Schwabero said. “In both locations, community and business leaders as well as our employees have done everything possible to help ensure a sustainable future for Mercury Marine. We want to thank each of them for their commitment and focus, particularly during these last two months.”


Schwabero said the company will develop and execute a transition plan that balances the needs of employees, the communities and Mercury Marine’s future.

[MacGyver]

All I can say is YES! I'm happy that Mercury will continue to be part of Wisconsin and keep 2000+ jobs here.:party:

[Scarab KV]

All I can say is YES! I'm happy that Mercury will continue to be part of Wisconsin and keep 2000+ jobs here.:party:

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[MacGyver]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

:26::26::26:

[Steve 1]

Sounds like Stillwater lost in this latest round.

[MacGyver]

Sounds like Stillwater lost in this latest round.

Unfortunately, one community had to lose. I'm just happy with the final outcome.

[phragle]

neither community lost...they both emerged with the amount of jobs they entered into negotiations with.

[VtSteve]

neither community lost...they both emerged with the amount of jobs they entered into negotiations with.

Maybe for now. It would be interesting to follow this for a couple of years. Really. `My guess is that the company will do everything in their power to make sure younger workers are their focus. The older ones have very little incentive to do more than finish a few years and get out. Many families are without jobs well before this vote there. At a certain age, coming back would be painful indeed.

But following up on these stories is indeed interesting. Companies that win these types of concessions usually see the following.

1) No real benefits to shareholders

2) Less experienced workers and harder to employ new ones

3) More jobs shipped overseas After the concessions are made

4) Lower standard of living and benefits to retirees



Imagine their fate if Mercury didn't have such a monopoly?

[MarylandMark]

Actually thats a good question.

I have 4 of them on my boat and so far I'm not impressed.

Sorry to hear..




In the end, without a strong middle class that actually has a standard of living, you have no customers. I'm certainly not sticking up for the union here, nor any unions.

Hit the nail on the head! I have no love for the unions but killing the guy putting his boots on vs collared shirt every AM is not the answer. Every one wants the working man to make $10/hour for some reason.

[phragle]

Mark...there are MANY parts to the equation that aren't being acknowledged/considered....

Say I have a company that makes widgets...for that company to succeed, there has to be a steady stream of people willing to buy my widgets... since there are people willing to buy my widgets, I have to price them so they are appealing to the customer, but also generate an acceptable profit to me.

So I am selling widgets faster than I can make them in my basement, so I need a factory. the cost for that factory needs to be as low as possible so as not to cut to dramatically into my profits, yet the cost must also be high enough to acurately reflect the value of the factory. next I need employees to work in the factory. the cost of these employees must be low enough as to not destroy my profit (the whole reason I a making widgets to begin with) yet high enough that decent employees are attainable (willing to do the amount of work for the amaount paid) then theres marketing distribution etc..

so profit has to be greater than expense, thats the general equation of buisness. Sure great nobility can be idolized.... but the fact is as a person (employeee) it is your reponsability to maximize your return on labor, as a widget maker it is my responsiblity to maximize profit on my widgets........ having a huge widget buisness entails many many factors to be in balance, but the success of the middle class is not my concern. I dont have an obligation to my widget builders... I do need widget builders though. I want them as cheap as possible, but if the widget builder is unwilling to build me widgets at the salary I can/am willing to pay.. then I wont build widgets.

so the short version

[MarylandMark]

I understand all of that very well; just in general it's always the worker vs the suits that pays the price. I have no beef if everyone is taking a 15% (made up number) pay cut across the board but I doubt that is the case. Unions didn't come about just to make more fat Italians; most companies deserve the union they get.

So the next question is how many of these Merc guys are going to be able to afford to go out to eat/movie/new clothes/etc with their new reduced pay? (I hate talking about things I don't have a clue on..LOL...and not sure who took a pay cut for how much but just tossing it out for discussion).

So in the end is any one- Merc or the workers- better off staying in WI or just prolonging the inevitable?

I think by moving more jobs to WI and in a few years instead of Merc being able to walk away they union will have them by the balls where they can't? Not saying good/bad on either side; just saying.

[phragle]

thats the beauty of it...all things involved seek balance or failure is inevitable. the advent of unions in the beginning was the imballance between employer and employee. however the pendulum went past center and swung the other way. that pendulum is now swinging back. you wont have an employee if you do not pay him enough to self justify going to work and you wont have an employeer if you demand more pay than what you contribute. you wont get somebody to work for you for 2 bucks an hour..they cant afford to live... but is it worth $20+ an hour with medical, dental, paid holidays and vaction plus retirement to put part A onto part B and torque to specification 45 times an hour?

[MarylandMark]

but is it worth $20+ an hour with medical, dental, paid holidays and vaction plus retirement to put part A onto part B and torque to specification 45 times an hour?

45 times an hour? LOL!

60 minutes with a 15 minute break, then 5 minutes each way to the break room, then a few minutes chatting with Johnny Union guy over a cup of joe leaves about 20 minutes an hour of actual work. You ain't getting 45 of nothing in 20 minutes in my union..

:rofl:

[Ratickle]

45 times an hour? LOL!

60 minutes with a 15 minute break, then 5 minutes each way to the break room, then a few minutes chatting with Johnny Union guy over a cup of joe leaves about 20 minutes an hour of actual work. You ain't getting 45 of nothing in 20 minutes in my union..

:rofl:

That's why Unions are ceasing to exist.

[Ratickle]

thats the beauty of it...all things involved seek balance or failure is inevitable. the advent of unions in the beginning was the imballance between employer and employee. however the pendulum went past center and swung the other way. that pendulum is now swinging back. you wont have an employee if you do not pay him enough to self justify going to work and you wont have an employeer if you demand more pay than what you contribute. you wont get somebody to work for you for 2 bucks an hour..they cant afford to live... but is it worth $20+ an hour with medical, dental, paid holidays and vaction plus retirement to put part A onto part B and torque to specification 45 times an hour?


I agree, but, we are currently seeking balance with the employees in China, Korea, Indonesia, Viet Nam, etc. Where they will work for less than $2 per hour because they have to to live.

Our fault, our crooked politicians, we elected them. Doesn't affect them in the slightest. Once elected, even if they resign for getting caught being thieves, they continue to get their current salery with COLA increases for life.

[Geronimo36]

neither community lost...they both emerged with the amount of jobs they entered into negotiations with.

I'm glad it all worked out!

[MarylandMark]

That's why Unions are ceasing to exist.

+1 which I see as a good thing. My union is holding me back.


...they will work for less than $2 per hour because they have to live.

Which is where the USA is heading..

YET- the CEO of the company I work for was paid over $26M last year- with $63M more in equity holdings, $51M in differed compensation and a measly $3M in his pension. Us employees are going to hold a fund raiser for him to soften the blow of this economy..

[Ratickle]

+1 which I see as a good thing. My union is holding me back.



Which is where the USA is heading..

YET- the CEO of the company I work for was paid over $26M last year- with $63M more in equity holdings, $51M in differed compensation and a measly $3M in his pension. Us employees are going to hold a fund raiser for him to soften the blow of this economy..

I'm sure he'll appreciate it.....


And he will:sifone:

I think you should, should make the headlines and you'll be famous. I'll even donate. What's weird, the stockholders elect the board, the board decides compensation for the dude (dudette) at the top.

[phragle]

I agree, but, we are currently seeking balance with the employees in China, Korea, Indonesia, Viet Nam, etc. Where they will work for less than $2 per hour because they have to to live.

Our fault, our crooked politicians, we elected them. Doesn't affect them in the slightest. Once elected, even if they resign for getting caught being thieves, they continue to get their current salery with COLA increases for life.


our fault, to some extent yes, but not totaly. Our politicians, part of the equation but not the root cause. We are now part of a global economy. The middle class has enjoyed the fruits of a bubble for many years. That $2 an hour in the 3rd world is not only allowing them to live, it is increasing their standard of living dramatically. We can snivle and complain all we want, or we can find a way to exploit it. It wouldn't hurt nearly as bad if the bubble hadnt gotten so big. It's like real estate, regardless of the cause, real estate was a sound long term investment. But people werent happy with that got greedy and munipulted the system artificially to make a killing, a bubble ensued than burst. The american worker saw their standard of living increase due to industrial revolution, then a artificial sense of importance ensued. American workers overvalued themselves, demanded high wages and comphensation and developed a decreased work ethic. Do we have an illegal immigration problem because mexicans sneal across the border for jobs or do we have a problem because americans find the labor and the wages beneath them, even if they are on welfare.....

[Offshoredrillin]

our fault, to some extent yes, but not totaly. Our politicians, part of the equation but not the root cause. We are now part of a global economy. The middle class has enjoyed the fruits of a bubble for many years. That $2 an hour in the 3rd world is not only allowing them to live, it is increasing their standard of living dramatically. We can snivle and complain all we want, or we can find a way to exploit it. It wouldn't hurt nearly as bad if the bubble hadnt gotten so big. It's like real estate, regardless of the cause, real estate was a sound long term investment. But people werent happy with that got greedy and munipulted the system artificially to make a killing, a bubble ensued than burst. The american worker saw their standard of living increase due to industrial revolution, then a artificial sense of importance ensued. American workers overvalued themselves, demanded high wages and comphensation and developed a decreased work ethic. Do we have an illegal immigration problem because mexicans sneal across the border for jobs or do we have a problem because americans find the labor and the wages beneath them, even if they are on welfare.....

I agree, I think I'll watch the movie gung ho today..spelled out american labor to a T

[Ratickle]

our fault, to some extent yes, but not totaly. Our politicians, part of the equation but not the root cause. We are now part of a global economy. The middle class has enjoyed the fruits of a bubble for many years. That $2 an hour in the 3rd world is not only allowing them to live, it is increasing their standard of living dramatically. We can snivle and complain all we want, or we can find a way to exploit it. It wouldn't hurt nearly as bad if the bubble hadnt gotten so big. It's like real estate, regardless of the cause, real estate was a sound long term investment. But people werent happy with that got greedy and munipulted the system artificially to make a killing, a bubble ensued than burst. The american worker saw their standard of living increase due to industrial revolution, then a artificial sense of importance ensued. American workers overvalued themselves, demanded high wages and comphensation and developed a decreased work ethic. Do we have an illegal immigration problem because mexicans sneal across the border for jobs or do we have a problem because americans find the labor and the wages beneath them, even if they are on welfare.....

From reading this, you would be one of those who feel it is our problem the rest of the world has a lower standard of living than us, therefore it is our responsibility to raise their standard of living up while ours declines.

I do not believe that for one single second. I also believe the "Global Economy" is something perpetrated by politicians and socialists who purposefully wish to make it a truth.

There is, was, and doesn't ever need to be a "Global Economy". Unless the single purpose is to level the standard of living throughout the world.

We built our middle class by granting unheard of freedoms to those who strive to be better than "Average" and take the risks necessary to reap rewards. Now, we have elected a group who have never taken a risk to better themselves, or humanity, and given them the keys to the vault.

Sometime, before it's too late, (and it already may be), people have to sit up and take notice that we are transferring all the hard work of our parents, grandparents, etc to other countries at a rate of over a trillion dollars per year. And you know what, it isn't coming back.

[phragle]

From reading this, you would be one of those who feel it is our problem the rest of the world has a lower standard of living than us, therefore it is our responsibility to raise their standard of living up while ours declines.

Not in the least bit, our standard of living was developed by hard work and hard thought. this wasn't acomplished by "granting freedoms" it was developed by our grandparents and great grandparent busting there ass everyday. No one, regardless of the country they are born in or reside is owed, entitled too, or gaurenteed a certain standard of living. If you want a higher standard of living, you educate yourself and work harder than the next guy. Any job is worth no more than what someone is willing to do it for.

[phragle]

and with the work ethic of the next generation it's only going to get worse... I gat a guy at work, early 20's... calls off all the time (actually there are several people who call off all the time) he called off on a friday morning, said he was sick, monday he sat in the office talking about how trashed he got at the lake on friday... the boss did nothing....when I looked at him and said "I thoughtyou were sick" he just laughed.

[Ratickle]

Not in the least bit, our standard of living was developed by hard work and hard thought. this wasn't acomplished by "granting freedoms" it was developed by our grandparents and great grandparent busting there ass everyday. No one, regardless of the country they are born in or reside is owed, entitled too, or gaurenteed a certain standard of living. If you want a higher standard of living, you educate yourself and work harder than the next guy. Any job is worth no more than what someone is willing to do it for.

You're missing the point Rob. We are GIVING AWAY our standard of living through the mis-use of taxes and mandated government regulations which have almost rendered us unable to compete with any other country when we make something. So, unless that changes, we will continue to fall to the level of those who are in countries with no standard of living. All they have is a standard of existence.

And, the estimated spending of tax dollars JUST IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA to illegal immigrants, is over 4 billion dollars per year. That is one of the main reasons to come to the US. (Illegals currently make up 7% of the California population).

[TCEd]

45 times an hour? LOL!

60 minutes with a 15 minute break, then 5 minutes each way to the break room, then a few minutes chatting with Johnny Union guy over a cup of joe leaves about 20 minutes an hour of actual work. You ain't getting 45 of nothing in 20 minutes in my union..

:rofl:

I can also tell you about the guy that lifts 225 car front fenders into a stamping press every hour with a 5 minute break. Don't always use the worse case example of a union worker. I worked in car plants for 13 years and saw both sides of the coin.
ed

[Ratickle]

I can also tell you about the guy that lifts 225 car front fenders into a stamping press every hour with a 5 minute break. Don't always use the worse case example of a union worker. I worked in car plants for 13 years and saw both sides of the coin.
ed

My Dad was a steel mill employee his entire life. Talks about how the union workers for years took care of the lazy azzas. If they didn't want to work, the union employees drove them out because it relected on them. Then, the national guys sent in their guys with their rules, and stopped that. Guys would get to stay who slept on the job, etc.

He hated the change.

[MarylandMark]

I can also tell you about the guy that lifts 225 car front fenders into a stamping press every hour with a 5 minute break. Don't always use the worse case example of a union worker. I worked in car plants for 13 years and saw both sides of the coin.
ed

Sorry- I tend to poke fun at the union since the one I am in is such a joke.

I'm not in a right-to-work state so I am an "agency fee payer".