Proposed Health Care Plan

[Tommy Gun]

The following are alleged excerpts from the proposed health care plan. I have not checked this information but if these are correct it is very troubling/disturbing. Anybody???

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! You can only get so much "care" per year

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits 4 you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individs finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 your banks accts for elective funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services..... Example - Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individually for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will be automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyer w payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll between 251k & 400k who doesnt prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesnt have acceptable HC accrdng to Govt will be taxed 2.5%

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (You and I will pay for them)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal recds

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor will be very affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesnt matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgments, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 317 L 13-20 OM !! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing all into Govt HC plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life. Seniors will be interviewed every year for health issues and decisions made as to what care they can or can't receive

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandated

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those services

[fund razor]

That's phucking scary. Come on.... backlash. :(

[cuda]

I hope it will never pass. If the congress will listen to their constituents, there is no way it will pass.
The media, in their total arrogance, does not cover the town meetings with hundreds of people there. If the media doesn't cover it, it must not happen, or at least, must not matter.


Patty Shehan got 44 people to attend her protest, and the media were stumbling over each other to cover it.

Our country is ****ed, and I don't thin ever the Obama supporters intended to give him a credit card, that future generations will have to pay back with interest, if he doesn't manage to bankrupt the country. He sees himself as some kind of savior, and it determined to leave his legacy etched upon America,

That is exactly what scares me.

[sledge]

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


Check some of those lines yourself. I'm not in any way supporting this thing, but at least the few line items I checked aren't in there as they're presented above.

PROPAGNADA folks, from all sides. And that's not a good thing. 15 months and counting...

[Ted]

Thanks for the link, actually it is pretty close, but you have to read through all the BS to get what they have distilled down. I just checked the reference to the Gov't determining end of life treament on page 430 and that is exactly what it is stating, the study of a uniform set of rules on life sustaining treatment. Now, thnk about how badly government f's up other rules and regs and tell me you want them to determine what you should and shouldn't get to sustain your life. Uh, NO THANKS!

[Sea-Dated]

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


Check some of those lines yourself. I'm not in any way supporting this thing, but at least the few line items I checked aren't in there as they're presented above.

PROPAGNADA folks, from all sides. And that's not a good thing. 15 months and counting...

Even if only a few of those are accurate, that is scary as hell.......:boxing_smiley:

[sledge]

Ted, exactly which language in that section says anything about studying a uniform set of rules for life sustainment? I "believe" a life-sustaining order is their fancy term for either a DNR, or what is essentially a medical power of attorney.

I read pg 430, lines 11-15: "(B)The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range" yada yada... Reading back a few pages before that, it all seems to read as such.

It's also not a completely new concept. New York has a MOLST law on the books since last year.
https://www.excellusbcbs.com/wps/portal/xl/gst/searchdisplay?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/Excellus/Guest/Contact+Us/News+Room/News+Releases/Excellus+Corporate+News/EXC-News+Release-09Jul08-Gov.+Paterson+Signs+End-of-Life+Program

https://www.excellusbcbs.com/wps/portal/xl/gst/searchdisplay?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/Excellus/Guest/Health+%26+Wellness/Planning+for+Future+Needs/Medical+Orders+for+Life+Sustaining+Treatments/GLO-HNW-Health+Care+Planning-Medical+Orders+for+Life+Sustaining+Treatment

[sledge]

Even if only a few of those are accurate, that is scary as hell.......:boxing_smiley:

It depends on which ones. Like I said, the plan as presented overall is a sham. But people HAVE to take more responsibility and do some research on their own. You just can't trust anyone these days.

[Ted]

Ted, exactly which language in that section says anything about studying a uniform set of rules for life sustainment? I "believe" a life-sustaining order is their fancy term for either a DNR, or what is essentially a medical power of attorney.

I read pg 430, lines 11-15: "(B)The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range" yada yada... Reading back a few pages before that, it all seems to read as such.

It's also not a completely new concept. New York has a MOLST law on the books since last year.
https://www.excellusbcbs.com/wps/portal/xl/gst/searchdisplay?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/Excellus/Guest/Contact+Us/News+Room/News+Releases/Excellus+Corporate+News/EXC-News+Release-09Jul08-Gov.+Paterson+Signs+End-of-Life+Program

https://www.excellusbcbs.com/wps/portal/xl/gst/searchdisplay?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/Excellus/Guest/Health+%26+Wellness/Planning+for+Future+Needs/Medical+Orders+for+Life+Sustaining+Treatments/GLO-HNW-Health+Care+Planning-Medical+Orders+for+Life+Sustaining+Treatment

PROPOSED SET OF MEASURES.— The
19 Secretary shall publish in the Federal Register
20 proposed quality measures on end of life care
21 and advanced care planning that the Secretary
22 determines are described in subparagraph (A)
23 and would be appropriate for eligible profes24
sionals to use to submit data to the Secretary.

Anyhow, I have seen the effects of socialized medicine first hand and I want no part of it. If you have seen the flow chart that the Reps made up showing all the useless BS that this mess is calling for there is NO WAY that health care will be enhanced for anyone, period. And if our system goes away where the hell else are ya gonna go??

[cuda]

It depends on which ones. Like I said, the plan as presented overall is a sham. But people HAVE to take more responsibility and do some research on their own. You just can't trust anyone these days.

Isn't that what our Senators and Congressmen are for? They are supposed to look out for the well being of their constituents, not for the well being on the government.

[03darkshadow]

im just scared at how bad the gov't screws everything else up.. how bad are they going to screw up health care. its funny obamas "people" dont have to worry about this, most dont pay taxes and already feed off of the working people. so they are going to be ok with it and unfortunately there is no "test" to vote, just any idiot can go vote. we're f'd

[Tommy Gun]

I thought this was pretty much to the point...

"So let me get this straight: The Finance Committee (led by Barney Frank), the Treasury Department (then headed by Hank Paulsen) and the Federal Reserve (led by Chairman Ben Bernanke) handed over our hard-earned cash to a bunch of cowboys who were taking on risk and creating esoteric securities that could possibly take the whole system down. Now, after paying dividends, writing off hundreds of billions of dollars of ill-placed bets, paying themselves huge salaries and bonuses, they're going to pay back TARP? Am I the only one confused here? "

Yep I say we're screwed all right...now that we've been swindeled.

[BillR]

`(1) CIVIL PENALTIES- In the case of any employer who fails (during any period with respect to which the election under subsection (a) is in effect) to satisfy the health coverage participation requirements with respect to any employee, the Secretary may assess a civil penalty against the employer of $100 for each day in the period beginning on the date such failure first occurs and ending on the date such failure is corrected



If you are interested how euthanasia plays a part in Obama’s government-run health care plan then read what Obama adviser, Zeke Emanuel, brother of Rahm Emanuel has to say in favor of euthanasia, click on link.

Excerpt from link, below:

There’s just one problem: NICE says that if it costs more than $22,000 to save six months of life, your sorry carcass isn’t worth it.
As a result, British cancer patients do not have access to drugs that are routinely available in the United States. The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that 25,000 British cancer patients die prematurely every year because of these restrictions.
Did you know that Obama adviser, Zeke Emanuel, brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, wrote an article about health care rationing in the medical journal Lancet on January 31, 2009? Goodman says Emanuel’s article reckons that the life of an elderly person isn’t worth spending as much on since they have less remaining natural lifespan anyway.

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/07/rationing-and-euthanasia-already-in-govt-health-care-proposal/

[sledge]

they're going to pay back TARP?

And the problem there is?

[sledge]

the life of an elderly person isn’t worth spending as much on since they have less remaining natural lifespan anyway.

What's wrong with actually thinking about the way you want to spend the end of your life? Maybe you haven't had to witness or deal firsthand with watching "an elderly" person struggle with living. What quality of life is there when you spend most of your time dealing with health issues? I'm not saying you get a Red Card when you turn 65 but "someone" decided humans are mortal. Death is inevitable, bring back some dignity and go out on top. If I can't work, if I can't take care of myself, if I can no longer transfer my insight and wisdom to my children and grandchildren....send me to a better place.

[Sea-Dated]

Isn't that what our Senators and Congressmen are for? They are supposed to look out for the well being of their constituents, not for the well being on the government.

That went out the window when they found out they could give themselves raises.....:smash::smash:

[cuda]

What's wrong with actually thinking about the way you want to spend the end of your life? Maybe you haven't had to witness or deal firsthand with watching "an elderly" person struggle with living. What quality of life is there when you spend most of your time dealing with health issues? I'm not saying you get a Red Card when you turn 65 but "someone" decided humans are mortal. Death is inevitable, bring back some dignity and go out on top. If I can't work, if I can't take care of myself, if I can no longer transfer my insight and wisdom to my children and grandchildren....send me to a better place.

I'm witnessing it every day. The only reason my father struggles on, is he doesn't want to leave mom after 58 years of marriage. I think that should be up to my dad, and NOT the federal government.:cuss:

[fund razor]

What's wrong with actually thinking about the way you want to spend the end of your life? Maybe you haven't had to witness or deal firsthand with watching "an elderly" person struggle with living. What quality of life is there when you spend most of your time dealing with health issues? I'm not saying you get a Red Card when you turn 65 but "someone" decided humans are mortal. Death is inevitable, bring back some dignity and go out on top. If I can't work, if I can't take care of myself, if I can no longer transfer my insight and wisdom to my children and grandchildren....send me to a better place.

There is a difference between thinking about the way that you want to spend the end of your life and being forced to participate in government imposed mandates on the issue. The same "someone" who decided that humans are mortal decided that there was value to human life and that the individual has free will. That "someone" did not decide that the government should administer a program that provides "counsel" to the elderly.

As I watched my Mom in the emergency room last night, and as she said to me "I'm sorry John" (meaning that she was sorry that she was in her end of life) I thought alot about this exact subject. As she begins the end of her life, I am glad that the government has not yet stuck their God dammed hands in the process. Thank God it is between me, my sisters and my Mom.
She has decided on a DNRCC (which, by the way, is NOT the same thing as a DPOA for Med.) Ask me how I know. ;)

I can get you Geoffrey Fieger's number. I am sure that he will put you in touch with whoever is practicing euthanasia in Kervorkian's absence. And that can be your personal choice, rather than a government mandate.

People need to wise up and keep the government the heck out of our personal business. It's not MY fault that this freaking incompetent social architect got in the office and increased the national debt to a level exceeding all other years combined. He isn't going to pay for it by offing seniors so they can't collect what they paid in to all their lives.

I think that the real question becomes when will we take our country back, not how can we pay for the greater good by eliminating the weak, old and infirmed.

Maybe we will get to use our Constitutionally protected firearms sooner than later. Because when they push it to this point..... many people will finally push back.

Vote down nationalized health care and every other so called socially progressive crap that they want to pass to make us like Europe so that we don't have to "water the tree of democracy."

God Dam I wish more people had studied Nazi Germany so we didn't have to go down the same freaking road again. :(

[fund razor]

If I can't work, and I can't take care of myself... I sure the heck don't want the government inserted into the situation.

[sledge]

She has decided on a DNRCC

I think that the real question becomes when will we take our country back

Prayers and best wishes for your mom, and entire family.

I read the most important words there as "she has decided." Whether she decided all on her own, or she discussed it with her doctor(s) and her kids, she took the responsibility to make that decision for herself. And that's what I advocate moreso than a government mandate.

But at what point does the refusal to take personal responsibility drive the consideration for someone else to push you along to make that decision? Even if I concede the higher power granting of free will, I still believe your free will ends where mine begins.

If a person can't work and can't take care of himself, who will? Family, church? If available, capable and willing. But otherwise the government will. Or nobody will. If there's no hope for me, pull my plug. I'm nobody's burden but my own.

[fund razor]

Prayers and best wishes for your mom, and entire family.

I read the most important words there as "she has decided." Whether she decided all on her own, or she discussed it with her doctor(s) and her kids, she took the responsibility to make that decision for herself. And that's what I advocate moreso than a government mandate.

But at what point does the refusal to take personal responsibility drive the consideration for someone else to push you along to make that decision? Even if I concede the higher power granting of free will, I still believe your free will ends where mine begins.

If a person can't work and can't take care of himself, who will? Family, church? If available, capable and willing. But otherwise the government will. Or nobody will. If there's no hope for me, pull my plug. I'm nobody's burden but my own.

Thanks man. My intention was not to drop that on the board... but it's on my mind. It informs my thoughts right now.

I agree with you on all of your points as far as personal choice goes and even the line between one's freedoms and another's.

And I guess I am ok with Medicaid. But that's where it ends for me.

What I disagree about is that HR676 will provide anything other than government intrusion into what should be a personal decision. I guess that as a society, I suppose we should provide for our elders. I will accept a 10% tax rate so that our elders can receive whatever care that they choose. I will not accept a tax rate of 40% because some folks won't work. I see this as one more slippery slope toward socialism.

The older I get the more I understand why government must be kept small.

[fund razor]

(not that you mentioned Medicaid....) :)

[Sea-Dated]

Ordering Pizza (http://www.aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf)

A look into the future.........

[fund razor]

Ordering Pizza (http://www.aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf)

A look into the future.........

The future is now.

If you would like to report Citizens who oppose the administration, you may do so at Flag@WhiteHouse.Gov. That way the adminstration can monitor and prevent free speech on the subjects that are important to them.

[fund razor]

While you were reading that post, how many people were issued "citations" from red light cameras?

[Coastie]

The future is now.

If you would like to report Citizens who oppose the administration, you may do so at Flag@WhiteHouse.Gov. That way the adminstration can monitor and prevent free speech on the subjects that are important to them.

Should I report myself? Ot should I just wait for one of the Libertards to do it for me?

[OldSchool]

Ordering Pizza (http://www.aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf)

A look into the future.........

:rofl::rofl::sifone::sifone::26:

That deserves it's own thread!!!!!!!

[cuda]

I think that the real question becomes when will we take our country back, not how can we pay for the greater good by eliminating the weak, old and infirmed.


God Dam I wish more people had studied Nazi Germany so we didn't have to go down the same freaking road again. :(

I was going to ask if it was copied right from Mein Kamp.

My dad worked 23 years for the US military, and 20+ years for the VA, to be sure he can get health care for him and my mom. He deserves to live as long as HE sees fit.

If someone doesn't want to live, eat a bullet.