Engine blocks and GM plant closings

[TCEd]

Anyone given any thought to a scenario where GM stops building big block engines i.e. 502's ? Guessing the only application is big trucks, motorhomes and Mercury Marine.
ed

[TxHawk]

Already here. One of GM's main remanufacturer's cannot get 502 blocks right now. You can still by them from GM Performance, but I imagine that you are buying what's left of their inventory.

[Ratickle]

My long term guess is Merlind and Dart blocks will be it. But you never know. I can see, as smart as these morons are, semi's with V6's to get better mileage....

[MERPerformance]

I really don't depend on GM for my BBC blocks and heads, you have Dart, World and other aftermarket producers. Whats going to suffer is Pro Stock and other racing bodies that require a GM part #

[TCEd]

So who provides to the manufacturers ? Remember besides the performance manufacturers Searay, Tiara, Crusader engines and many other use big blocks.
ed

[RedDog382]

GM engine blocks have been poured at the GM foundary in Defiance, Ohio for as long as I can remember. Most of the city has been employed there including several close friends and relatives. They had in recent years re-tooled and developed a line to pour aluminum blocks. Most of those I know have retired or passed away. Haven't heard what's happening out there now ...

[Wrinkleface]

Not sure but thought some big blocks R made in Tonawanda(SP), New York????? sound right???

[Steve Miklos]

Not sure but thought some big blocks R made in Tonawanda(SP), New York????? sound right???

502 was Mexico under Obama and a 31 year old not sure what they will do.
Steve

[T2x]

My long term guess is Merlind and Dart blocks will be it. But you never know. I can see, as smart as these morons are, semi's with V6's to get better mileage....

Semi's haven't used gasoline engines in 50 years.......... It's all big diesel power Cummins, Detroit, Volvo and Cat(temporarily).

The big gas blocks are used in a few straight trucks and big pickups, but even in those markets the diesel is rapidly becoming the dominant player. Why play around with a gas guzzling v-8 or v-10 with limited life and lower torque, when you can power up to a live forever diesel?

The sad fact is that the big block is becoming obsolete........

The Diesel revolution might be the next big thing........

Give credit to Fabio Buzzi for predicting this back in the 80's...........

T2x

[Chris]

If you've priced a Bowtie lately, their absence from the marketplace won't be felt one iota.

[Tempest38]

Oh good news. And I'm in need of a tall deck 4.500 blcok to replace one of my blocks.

[davemyjr1]

Any non current GM block/long block has been produced in mexico for years. Basically anything they do not use automotively gets produced there.

[TCEd]

So what does Mercruiser, Crusader and others buy from GM for their marinized products, Complete engines or long blocks or short blocks ? I know the internals get some changes but what do they start with ?
ed

[fund razor]

Oh good news. And I'm in need of a tall deck 4.500 blcok to replace one of my blocks.

$1,850.00 brand new Dart tall deck 4.500 bore from Cobra Power.
Free shipping.

http://cobrapower.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_6&products_id=1

[fund razor]

For the record, I am building GM big blocks right now. There aren't any GM parts on them.

[TCEd]

I guess I titled this thread incorrectly. I was wondering where the manufacturers would get complete or partial engines for production not just blocks or aftermarker stuff.
ed

[Tempest38]

Thanks but those are all short decks. Dammit dammit dammit.

[fund razor]

Thanks but those are all short decks. Dammit dammit dammit.

Sorry. Thought there was a tall one in there. I would call them and ask.

[davemyjr1]

Im not sure what mercruiser does, but Crusader not change anything in the long block. They simply "marinize" a car engine. In the case of the current EFI systems they install there manifolds, both intake and exhaust and there control platform which is made by Econtrols out of TX. Merc also uses a standard automotive engine and marinizes it except for in the case of the larger horse power super charged stuff I believe.

[boostbros]

T2 is right about fabio buzzy racing 4 seatec diesels But the huge black cloud following the boat made it look like one of those super stock tractor pullers although they can clean them up by running straight alky fuel

[C_Spray]

So what does Mercruiser, Crusader and others buy from GM for their marinized products, Complete engines or long blocks or short blocks ? I know the internals get some changes but what do they start with ?
ed
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't the classic 396/427/454/502 big-block been out of GM's street line-up for almost a decade? The 496 (an entirely different engine) replaced it a long time ago. The high-performance crowd that uses the old-school engine has been doing quite nicely without domestic GM output since then.

The bottom line is that someone will fill the market IF there is enough demand for it.

[Steve Miklos]

I think the real question is will Mercury make it through this? We have not bottomed yet and except for sterndrives the market is full of manufacturers. I expect the goverment would pass on funding Mercury so at least the UAW will not end up with it.
Genmar filed just this week.
Steve

[Ratickle]

I think the real question is will Mercury make it through this? We have not bottomed yet and except for sterndrives the market is full of manufacturers. I expect the goverment would pass on funding Mercury so at least the UAW will not end up with it.
Genmar filed just this week.
Steve

I still cannot believe the courts are aloowing that to happen. We give the UAW and Fiat billions to take Chrysler off our hands??????? And circumvent US Bankruptcy law to do it. What stupid moron crap:boxing_smiley:

[pullmytrigger]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't the classic 396/427/454/502 big-block been out of GM's street line-up for almost a decade?

yes but theres almost a dozen versions of that engine still available through GM Performance Parts......their still making them

[C_Spray]

yes but theres almost a dozen versions of that engine still available through GM Performance Parts......their still making themBut where, and in what volume? The quantity of those engines being sold is almost non-existent compared to 496 production. Those are the only marinized assemblies going out GM's door. So, in a way, we've been without production of our "traditional" big blocks for some time now.

The loss of 496 production might not hurt us high-performance types a lot, but it would be a MAJOR blow to the mainstream recreational boating market.

[MacGyver]

My long term guess is Merlind and Dart blocks will be it. But you never know. I can see, as smart as these morons are, semi's with V6's to get better mileage....
Don't most semi's run straight 6's already? :leaving:

[scarrab30]

macgyver, 95% of road tractors are inline 6's. The inlines seem to last longer and have a flatter torque curve, plus do alot better on fuel consumption.Ill take a inline anyday over a V. after 33 years in the biz I've driven alot of them good and bad. Brian

[TCEd]

What is the difference between a stock 496 and 502 ?

[davemyjr1]

But where, and in what volume? The quantity of those engines being sold is almost non-existent compared to 496 production. Those are the only marinized assemblies going out GM's door. So, in a way, we've been without production of our "traditional" big blocks for some time now.

The loss of 496 production might not hurt us high-performance types a lot, but it would be a MAJOR blow to the mainstream recreational boating market.

The 496 is almost gone from the vehicle side anyway, it is being replaced with the 6.0 or 6.2? GM does not marinize anything, merc or crusader or whomever is selling the package does. The BB is still used in huge volumes in the off highway market, mainly generators, to the tune of 50,000 engines a year.

[sledge]

The BB is still used in huge volumes in the off highway market, mainly generators, to the tune of 50,000 engines a year.

Clarify that...is it mostly/all Gen VII 496/8.1L or is there any Gen VI 454/502 production? Most of the industrial units are 8.1L that I've seen.

Aren't most of the iron foundries in mexico these days?

[davemyjr1]

Clarify that...is it mostly/all Gen VII 496/8.1L or is there any Gen VI 454/502 production? Most of the industrial units are 8.1L that I've seen.

Aren't most of the iron foundries in mexico these days?

The foundaries and GM assembly for off highway are done in Mexico excpet for the 496, which will probably end up there too since it is all but gone for the on highway market. They still use the 454 industrially because the majority of the industrial market runs these engines on dry fuel (LP,NG) and the 8.1 had major problems holding up in those conditions. The 454 was always available from GM with hardened valves and seats. The 454 is still availalbe as a brand new short/long block from GM as well as the 502 and the 502/502, at least through Crusader anyway.

[Excalibur Racing]

I believe GM does make marine engines, I rember seeing a supercharged 6.2 for marine use from GM.

[Excalibur Racing]

Yep, go to GMPOWERTRAINE.com

[Excalibur Racing]

no E

[davemyjr1]

Yes, like I said I believe they are replacing the 8.1 with the 6.0 and this 6.0SC will replace the 8.1HO I guess? I would be willing to bet that those output numbers will change once crusader or merc offer it though since they will not use the GM control platform, they will supply there own computer. There is a possibility it would even go up until they are required to be emissions compliant.