Chris..anyone??

[phragle]

seeing as how toledo is laying off 150 cops tomorrow..does Ohio have a castle law?? I thought I had heard one was in the works..but that was a while ago...

[Tony]

It goes into effect June 10th.

[Buoy]

seeing as how toledo is laying off 150 cops tomorrow..does Ohio have a castle law?? I thought I had heard one was in the works..but that was a while ago...

Not to worry.
You'll be able to speed on your way to Dunkin' Donuts, and have no problems speeding or the line at DD.
I wouldn't worry that the layoff is going to affect "Real" crimes in any way.

[Chris]

If you were depending on Toledo's police force to keep you safe...

Police do a wonderful and tough job. But their ability to protect you from a crime is exceptionally limited. Unless you have an officer with you, the bad guy has a distinct advantage. Our laws are based on the concept of deterrence. That only works on people with something to lose- or the presence of mind to comprehend the concept.

Castle doctrine or not, I'm willing to take my chances.

[03darkshadow]

If you were depending on Toledo's police force to keep you safe...

Police do a wonderful and tough job. But their ability to protect you from a crime is exceptionally limited. Unless you have an officer with you, the bad guy has a distinct advantage. Our laws are based on the concept of deterrence. That only works on people with something to lose- or the presence of mind to comprehend the concept.

Castle doctrine or not, I'm willing to take my chances.



what really needs to happen is make it easier to get a permit to carry. make people pass a backround check and everything else, then give them a permit if they work in or around big cities.

[phragle]

what really needs to happen is for the consitution to be upheld.. I have the right to keep and bare arms...why do I need a permit to carry??

[Tony]

In OH, all that is required is NRA basic pistol training and an FBI background check.

I personally wouldnt ask any more or any less for a person to obtain a permit to carry a firearm. I'm about as big of a gun nut as they come but the sad truth of it is that some people law biding or not have absolutly no business carrying a weapon in public. There was a guy in my CCW class that did not pass and I sleep better at night knowing that one less idiot is not walking the street armed.

[03darkshadow]

In OH, all that is required is NRA basic pistol training and an FBI background check.

I personally wouldnt ask any more or any less for a person to obtain a permit to carry a firearm. I'm about as big of a gun nut as they come but the sad truth of it is that some people law biding or not have absolutly no business carrying a weapon in public. There was a guy in my CCW class that did not pass and I sleep better at night knowing that one less idiot is not walking the street armed.



this is what i meant. as long as you can prove you're not completely stupid, sure get one. it'd be funny though, you'd surprise the sh*t out of some robber.

[Chris]

I have a couple friends that teach basic CCW classes. Their typical class participants scare the living hell out of me. 8 of 10 are either goofy/scary or so inept I'm certain they'll shoot themselves before hitting anyone else.

[insanity]

what really needs to happen is for the consitution to be upheld.. I have the right to keep and bare arms...why do I need a permit to carry??


You can open carry all you want w/o a permit. Just have a tape recorder/camera phone and the little cheat sheet card of what to say to the cops WHEN somebody calls them on you (unless you have a good memory).

[Chris]

You can open carry all you want w/o a permit. Just have a tape recorder/camera phone and the little cheat sheet card of what to say to the cops WHEN somebody calls them on you (unless you have a good memory).


In theory, yes. In reality, you'll be immediately arrested and charged with any number of felonies, such as inducing a panic or menacing.

[phragle]

I am a Menace to sobriety....

[phragle]

I havent shopped but I believe I remember seeing adds for mossurg? having a cheap shortbarrel 12 guage.. Im thinking that would be better around the house than the SKS...

[Scarab KV]

This week a guy in Milwaukee decided to test the new liberties in WI to carry in the open. His problem was going with his GF to pick up her daughter.....on the play ground at her school. Now he's look'n at 3 years.

[fund razor]

I havent shopped but I believe I remember seeing adds for mossurg? having a cheap shortbarrel 12 guage.. Im thinking that would be better around the house than the SKS...

I have a Mossburg 590 that was less than 300 bucks new. Is it the world's premiere shotgun? heck no. But it holds a lot of 00 has a decent balance and heft, and I am used to it. Manual pump. 20 inch cylinder bore barrel.
I have learned to trust it. No problems. It is due for a clean and lube, thanks for the reminder.

I remember hearing that the supreme court ruled that it is an unreasonable expectation that police can "protect" citizens. They are primarily an investigative agency.

[Tony]

I havent shopped but I believe I remember seeing adds for mossurg? having a cheap shortbarrel 12 guage.. Im thinking that would be better around the house than the SKS...

Put the SKS in the safe and buy a shotgun. Any sort of rifle for home protection is just a bad idea in general, over penetration being one of many reasons. And for the hundreth time, If your weapon looks like it belongs on the battle field or in a swat van and you shoot someone with it, even in the most justifiable situation, the court will have a hay day with you.

[BradB]

I havent shopped but I believe I remember seeing adds for mossurg? having a cheap shortbarrel 12 guage.. Im thinking that would be better around the house than the SKS...

keep this next to the bed at home and also carry on the boat with me. Mossburg mariner:sifone:

[Ratickle]

My favorite is the Winchester Coastal Marine 1300 Defender. The main reason is it's the favorite of police agencies. They use special short 12Gauge shells and can shoot in it without jamming. You'll have to ask Chris or someone about that.

Mini-shotshells are only 1-3/4" long, and greatly increase the capacity of pump-action shotguns. They work great in Winchester 1300 shotguns, though other pump guns may not cycle reliably without modification. Perfect for use as low-recoil ammunition for single-shot or double guns as well.

[fund razor]

And for the hundreth time, If your weapon looks like it belongs on the battle field or in a swat van and you shoot someone with it, even in the most justifiable situation, the court will have a hay day with you.

Ok, mine has a heat shield.
Are you saying I have to use my 28" barrel bird gun? So I look like a duck hunter? Bummer. Wheeling around with that in the house would be like turning the guns on a battleship.

[phragle]

ya know John...your twice the size of the average malnurished crackhead burgler...just pick him up by the scruff of the neck and beat him severly about the head and shoulders...

[Chris]

The Remington 870 is my first, second and third choice for a weapon of that type. I've never failed to have one feed or fire, nor have I ever heard of it happening. It's the only shotgun I know of I can say that about. Now maintenance has alot to do with that- if you have it in a closet and it's kept clean and lubricated, you're not going to have nearly the concern. But if you're shopping anyway, they're all equivalent in price.

On the SKS, the 7.62x39 is going to go through your walls as well as your neighbor's- and conceivably, one of your neighbors. Castle doctrine laws don't cover those issues.

[Scarab KV]

ya know John...your twice the size of the average malnurished crackhead burgler...just pick him up by the scruff of the neck and beat him severly about the head and shoulders...

....and at that point he ends up in Rob's care. Poor bastid will wish he never got out of the gutter that day:biggrinjester:

[Tony]

Ok, mine has a heat shield.
Are you saying I have to use my 28" barrel bird gun? So I look like a duck hunter? Bummer. Wheeling around with that in the house would be like turning the guns on a battleship.

A heat shield no so much, but when you go all "mall ninja" lasers, lights, spare mag attachments, night vision, quad rails, bayonets, tactical stocks/grips so on and so forth is when the prosecutor will start to question your motives

[BradB]

ya know John...your twice the size of the average malnurished crackhead burgler...just pick him up by the scruff of the neck and beat him severly about the head and shoulders...



This would be another option for me also, but I think im three times the size of the average malnurished crackhead burgler!, but the downside to this is, in the middle of the night when im still half asleep and I get up for the first 30 seconds or so, a ballarina I am not...... more like a bull in a china shop:D. If all the noise doesnt deter any theif then my shotgun and fists will be ready for proper use.:smash:

[cuda]

Crime? Ohio? Say it ain't so!

I've carried a pistol in all my vehicles for years. It's legal in Fla, and on some jobsites in Orlando, I'd rather be carried by six anyway. The eletrician son was a cop in Crime Hills (Pine Hills) he said he liked the excitement. First thing his dad did was pound his chest, checking for his vest, and the cop would have gotten his head thumped if he didn't have it on. One of the worst areas in Otown, but not the worst.

If I get tried for shooting someone, there won't be a victim to testify. Damn near had to prove it a few months ago with three punks in my neighborhood. They decided living was better. One punk thought I was joking, but the oldest punk started screaming at the other two to get the f in the truck. Told em if I saw them again in my neighborhood (one way in, and one way out) I would assume they were looking for me, and I'd go to killing. It wasn't until that night I knew for sure I could kill somebody if I had no choice. Since then I carry a heavy black steel piece of pipe behind my seat, so I'll have a non deadly choice for defense. I don't want to kill anybody, but I damn sure will.
There's a girl I know who's 5-2 110 pounds that says she'd be skeered to carry a gun, but she has an alarm when she's working at the office alone. Told me if she did carry a gun, she wouldn't have bullets for it. I told her NOT to get a gun. I can think of no more sure way of getting killed than pulling a pistol with no bullets, by the same token, don't pull it unless you intend to use it, then keep pulling until it clicks.

[fund razor]

ya know John...your twice the size of the average malnurished crackhead burgler...just pick him up by the scruff of the neck and beat him severly about the head and shoulders...

No thanks. Could be dna transfer. And cooties too. Besides, crack heads shoot the big guys.
Although that trick did work in a bar fight once. After I got thrown into the juke box I decided to step up my game a little. ;)

[fund razor]

A heat shield no so much, but when you go all "mall ninja" lasers, lights, spare mag attachments, night vision, quad rails, bayonets, tactical stocks/grips so on and so forth is when the prosecutor will start to question your motives

None of that. Just the stock heat shield.
No add ons, no external mags, just a three dot sight.

[fund razor]

The Remington 870 is my first, second and third choice for a weapon of that type. I've never failed to have one feed or fire, nor have I ever heard of it happening. It's the only shotgun I know of I can say that about. Now maintenance has alot to do with that- if you have it in a closet and it's kept clean and lubricated, you're not going to have nearly the concern. But if you're shopping anyway, they're all equivalent in price.


Isn't the 870 the most widely used choice for LE?

[Tony]

I'l seccond the 870 as first choice in a shotgun. I have one that has been thrown around like a trailer park housewife for years and never had the first hicup. I wish I could say the same for my 590 Mariner.

[phragle]

the SKS did work for home defense last summer...after the tweaker scappers stole a spool of wire (the big street to house kind) from my yard, and came bag a couple days later for more... I went on patrol..heard rustling in the back yard about 3 am...walked out the back door and emptied about half the 30 round clip into the ground then advanced...phuckers ran like hell...word spreads,,,no one has been back messing with my stuff since. there may be honor amongst thieves, but their is also communication and noone wants to mess with the crazy guy that walks out the door guns blazing.

[Tommy Gun]

what really needs to happen is for the consitution to be upheld.. I have the right to keep and bare arms...why do I need a permit to carry??

That's what Nugent said, "The Second Ammendment is my permit." or something to that effect.

[Tommy Gun]

I'l seccond the 870 as first choice in a shotgun. I have one that has been thrown around like a trailer park housewife for years and never had the first hicup. I wish I could say the same for my 590 Mariner.

Remington 870 comes in a marine version as well...

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_marine_magnum.asp

[Sea-Dated]

Remington 870 comes in a marine version as well...

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_marine_magnum.asp

I like that one. Great looking, reliable gun.

http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/shotgun/870marinemag[1a].jpg

[RedDog382]

I am a Menace to sobriety....

Go take your the CFP course at Cleland's ... you can walk across the road to Loma Linda's for a few margs after the class!

[RedDog382]

I like that one. Great looking, reliable gun.

http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/shotgun/870marinemag[1a].jpg

Will be my next purchase ...

[insanity]

Will be my next purchase ...

Mine too. They had one at the Bass Pro in Rossford awhile back, I snoozed...I lost. Just haven't gotten around to ordering one yet. Although the Express version is about 2 hundo cheaper than the Marine iirc. Just not as pretty but sometimes function wins over form...and I'm sure they would make similar size holes :D

[Ratickle]

Isn't the 870 the most widely used choice for LE?

As far as I know, the FN Tactical Police is currently the favorite and uses a modified 1300 action. I also believe it is rated the highest, and as I said earlier, accepts those mini 12 guage shells so they can put like 12 shells in the gun.

[Chris]

Isn't the 870 the most widely used choice for LE?

Yes. You very rarely see anything else.

[fund razor]

noone wants to mess with the crazy guy that walks out the door guns blazing.

You are really giving the gun credit? Don't underestimate the power of "crazy" in the armed and crazy scenario.
Worked for Ronald Reagan. ;)

Crazy works pretty good. Once drove off 5 guys trying to break into my house at 2am on a fourth of july. I was in the basement and I heard the back door knob. As one guy was working the door, the others were standing around. I climbed the step, grabbed my big boy mag lite and hit the garage security lights. As they turned to look at the lights I threw the door open and did my best impression of a 6'6" 250 pound guy swinging a mag lite like a crazy person. They were so screwed up and scared that it was like a cartoon. A couple ran into each other, then a couple tried to run THROUGH my stockade fence. I got to them just as the second one made it over the fence and he dropped his shoe. I secured the house and got on the phone to the po po. Two little fat lady cops showed up and I thought "oh great."
I gave them the shoe. They knew that the guys had come from a party a few houses down. (I recognized them) So... we new that they had to come back eventually. One cop parked her car down at one end of the street. The other hid in the shadows at the other end. When the kids manuevered to avoid the cop that they could see... the one that they couldn't rolled up.

"Is this your shoe, Cinderella?" Is what she told me she asked. The arrested two. I prosecuted two. The prosecutor tried to play the "go easy on them, do you really want these kids to have a felony record?"
I said "Get out of this room. I will see you inside the courtroom. Say another word and I will make a formal complaint of witness intimidation."
I went in and stood my ground., and told the story of the night that a home invasion was attempted at my home.
They went down on all charges. Criminal tresspass, carrying concealed weapon, several other neat charges.

[fund razor]

And yes.... I know that it could have gone a different way.... but I knew it was the neighbors punk friends.

[fund razor]

Phragle.... you could have only gotten away with the discharge in that neighborhood.

In my neighborhood? No way.

[MarylandMark]

They went down on all charges. Criminal tresspass, carrying concealed weapon, several other neat charges.

Deal breaker for me- throw the book at them.

[fund razor]

Deal breaker for me- throw the book at them.

Yep. Went to court in a nice suit with a nice haricut, wearing my hospital ID for good measure. Told the whole story and the when I got to the Cinderella part... they were cooked.
The cops testified too.

They claimed that they went in my yard after a football. No football was found. Just a shoe, from someone fleeing by trying to go through, then over a stockade fence.

Never saw them again. Got paid for a new fence too.

[Ratickle]

Got paid for a new fence too.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[phragle]

You are really giving the gun credit? Don't underestimate the power of "crazy" .


Me?? crazy??

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: