To:Foreign car buyers From:The Big 3

[MarylandMark]

We'll be taking your money anyway.

The Bailout. Coming this January.

You probably thought it was smart to buy a foreign import of superior quality, with better mileage and resale value. Maybe you even thought that years of market share loss might prod us into rethinking our process and redesigning our products with better quality in mind. But you forgot one thing: we spend a sh1tload of money on lobbyists. So now you're out $25 billion, plus the cost of your subaru. Maybe next time you'll buy American like a real man. Either way, we’re cool.

We're the big three. We don't need to compete.

[Ratickle]

Funny.
:)

[pullmytrigger]

cool....!:rofl:

[catmando]

I've never bought a foreign car. I support American jobs. Even if you buy a foreign make that's built here, the profit still goes to the overseas manufacturer.

[03darkshadow]

I've never bought a foreign car. I support American jobs. Even if you buy a foreign make that's built here, the profit still goes to the overseas manufacturer.


but it does employ an american worker who can buy food at the grocery store and pay his mortgage

[Ratickle]

I've never bought a foreign car. I support American jobs. Even if you buy a foreign make that's built here, the profit still goes to the overseas manufacturer.

I'm worried. Something we agree on.....:sifone:


but it does employ an american worker who can buy food at the grocery store and pay his mortgage

Yes true, but the profits way understated by purchasing sub-components from your overseas sister divisions at overstated prices, go to developing better products and capitol investments overseas.

[MattBMiller]

but it does employ an american worker who can buy food at the grocery store and pay his mortgage

But the profit still leaves the country.

[03darkshadow]

But the profit still leaves the country.



i know. but its still employs an american worker which is what our country needs, more jobs.

[Andrew]

I'm worried. Something we agree on.....:sifone:

Me too! The Cat Man and I agreeing, scary. :)


i know. but its still employs an american worker which is what our country needs, more jobs.

The point is buying an American car employs many more American jobs.

[phragle]

and the money that goes overseas, comes back as investment in american debt...

[MarylandMark]

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/simmermaker/ba-0008-bintro.shtml

If we buy foreign owned, American made products over American owned foreign made products, we still stand to lose.

How your should buy if you want "American":

1. American owned, American made
2. American owned, foreign made
3. foreign owned, American made
4. foreign owned, foreign made

[Playn]

I've never bought a foreign car. I support American jobs. Even if you buy a foreign make that's built here, the profit still goes to the overseas manufacturer.

Quite the delema you would have back when Diamler owned Chrysler....

[DollaBill]

I am a capitalist pig and do wats best for business. My business. The only reason I buy american stuff, when I do is b/c it's cool (escalade, Hummer etc) Otherwise I have not 1% of sympathy for the "turd"3 or anything else just b/c "its american dammit". wake up and take a look at the big pic people.

[Ratickle]

Quite the delema you would have back when Diamler owned Chrysler....

Yep, as far as I was concerned, they were no longer a member of the so-called big three. Off the list for purchasing.

[Ratickle]

I am a capitalist pig and do wats best for business. My business. The only reason I buy american stuff, when I do is b/c it's cool (escalade, Hummer etc) Otherwise I have not 1% of sympathy for the "turd"3 or anything else just b/c "its american dammit". wake up and take a look at the big pic people.

What's best for any US business is to have US families with jobs to buy the products or services rendered. Unless the majority of the products are sold overseas.

[cosmic12]

I never bought a foreign car always had GM's untill I needed to buy used about a year ago. I looked and looked and could not find a car that was worth (in my eye) the money. I ended up with a 98 Lexus SC300 with 100k on it that looks and drives like its new, I am so very sad that I couldn't find anything even close to it for the same or a bit more money that was built here. The truth is they are junk. I will always buy american if I can but I just couldn't do it this time. I will say they are getting way better the new Impala and Malibu are great cars if you want a 4 door. I am hopeing that a new Camaro is in my near future BUT!!! how much of that will be amercian made?

[Ratickle]

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/simmermaker/ba-0008-bintro.shtml

If we buy foreign owned, American made products over American owned foreign made products, we still stand to lose.

How your should buy if you want "American":

1. American owned, American made
2. American owned, foreign made
3. foreign owned, American made
4. foreign owned, foreign made

Good analogy.

[gerritm]

Look under the hood or at the sticker on the window and you will see that all "American" made cars may be assembled in America, but contain parts from all over the world. I think my Dodge Hemi Charger's engine was made in Canada. I don't think it matters, somehow we all unknowingly support foreign countries.

[Ratickle]

I never bought a foreign car always had GM's untill I needed to buy used about a year ago. I looked and looked and could not find a car that was worth (in my eye) the money. I ended up with a 98 Lexus SC300 with 100k on it that looks and drives like its new, I am so very sad that I couldn't find anything even close to it for the same or a bit more money that was built here. The truth is they are junk. I will always buy american if I can but I just couldn't do it this time. I will say they are getting way better the new Impala and Malibu are great cars if you want a 4 door. I am hopeing that a new Camaro is in my near future BUT!!! how much of that will be amercian made?

I don't know about 98 Lexus, but in 2000 the Cadillac scored higher in Consumer Guides than the Lexus.

[Airpacker]

Been thru this discussion before.

What is an "American Car"?

A GM made in Europe? A GM made in Mexico? A GM made in Brazil? Canada? Austrailia? China?

A GM assembled in Kentucky with parts from India, China, Poland, Mexico, Guatemala, France, Germany, and on and on?

Maybe its a Toyota assembled in the US with parts from all the above countries PLUS parts made in the US?

Its hard to believe in the BIG 3 when they have outsourced production of most of their parts to other countries. Its hard to believe in the BIG# when they are investing BILLIONS in third world production plants, assembly plants, foundries etc.

I see dozens of OE parts arrive in my shop daily and very, very few have "made in USA" stamped on them. Lots of the packaging does but the contents are from China, Mexico, Poland, India, Korea, Brazil, Guatemala etc.



So, I ask again, what is an "AMERICAN" car?

[Ratickle]

Been thru this discussion before.

What is an "American Car"?

A GM made in Europe? A GM made in Mexico? A GM made in Brazil? Canada? Austrailia? China?

A GM assembled in Kentucky with parts from India, China, Poland, Mexico, Guatemala, France, Germany, and on and on?

Maybe its a Toyota assembled in the US with parts from all the above countries PLUS parts made in the US?

Its hard to believe in the BIG 3 when they have outsourced production of most of their parts to other countries. Its hard to believe in the BIG# when they are investing BILLIONS in third world production plants, assembly plants, foundries etc.

I see dozens of OE parts arrive in my shop daily and very, very few have "made in USA" stamped on them. Lots of the packaging does but the contents are from China, Mexico, Poland, India, Korea, Brazil, Guatemala etc.



So, I ask again, what is an "AMERICAN" car?

I hate getting into this because some take it wrong.

The Big 3 had no choice but to outsource to other countries to try and minimize their losses caused by competing with the import manufacturers. If they hadn't, they'd have been gone a long time ago. Now, I still believe the only way out is bankruptcy.


Here's some recent stats: USA Today

•Foreign cars made in the USA. Honda's Ohio-built Accord is 70% domestic parts. Toyota's Corolla is made in a California plant alongside General Motors models.

•American cars made abroad. Ford's hit Fusion sedan is made in Mexico; only half its parts are from the USA or Canada. GM pitches its small HHR sport utility and giant Suburban straight at the American market, but they, too, are built in Mexico. HHR has only 41% American and Canadian parts.

•Famous American names and foreign owners. More than three-quarters of the parts in Dodge's new Nitro SUV, which is assembled in Toledo, Ohio, are American or Canadian. Chrysler Group, meanwhile, just became the first major automaker to announce it's going to make small cars for the U.S. market in China.

The government makes it easy for buyers wandering sales lots to figure out which vehicles are most American. The location of the plant where a vehicle was assembled and its amount of U.S. or Canadian parts — they aren't separated out — are pasted on the window sticker.

Arguably, the most American of all vehicles right now is Ford's hulking Ford Expedition, a USA TODAY check of government listings, manufacturers and dealer sales lots reveals. The SUV is composed of 95% U.S. or Canadian parts, and it was made in Michigan. Ford's new Edge crossover and the Crown Victoria sedan also have 95% components, but both they and their corporate cousins are assembled in Canada.

Even though individual models vary widely, Detroit automakers overall still had more domestic parts in their vehicles when weighted according to sales, says an analysis from a pro-Detroit trade group.

Detroit's Big 3 derived about 77% of their parts from U.S. and Canadian factories from domestic sources. That compares with slightly less than half for Japanese brands overall, according to the Automotive Trade Policy Council, which represents the domestic manufacturers in trade issues. Among Japanese brands, Honda had the most domestic content at 59%.

[Sea-Dated]

I buy what I want when the time comes for a new car for me. Before my Nissan 350Z I had owned only "American" vehicles. Jeeps, Ford Mustang, Ford Probe, Mercury Cougar, and had problems with all of them. Thought I would try Nissan this time.

For the wifes vehicle, I buy what I am told to keep the peace and it ended up being a foreign owned by an American at the time. Land Rover.

[RLJ676]

but it does employ an american worker who can buy food at the grocery store and pay his mortgage


Sure, but pays him less and gives less benefits. Less paid to their workers here (which pro-transplant people seem to think is better) means more profit back to Japan, and less staying in this economy. The car never costs less because of this labor advantage.

If the UAW is busted, there's no reason at all for the transplants to pay as well as they do to keep the UAW out, really beginning the race to the bottom. New UAW guys only make 15, so the new transplant guys could easily be making 13 or less. Great for profits, but not so great for what used to be the middle class, and all the communities that are built on those middle class factory guys.

[RLJ676]

I am a capitalist pig and do wats best for business. My business. The only reason I buy american stuff, when I do is b/c it's cool (escalade, Hummer etc) Otherwise I have not 1% of sympathy for the "turd"3 or anything else just b/c "its american dammit". wake up and take a look at the big pic people.

The big pic is that succesfull industry in "your" country benefits your business, no matter what it is.

The rest of the world is sitting by and laughing as we have people applauding the demise of our biggest industry, while they do everything they can to protect and support their auto industries which typically are a smaller part of their GDP/employment. Everyone else has pride in their country and it's products, be it the Koreans, Japanese, Germans, etc.

[Ratickle]

really beginning the race to the bottom.

The race to the bottom began when our politicians, most of the ones supported by the big unions (ie; Carter/Clinton) gave foreign competition a leg up by approving NAFTA and Most Favored Trading Status.

The ultimate irony, the number two largest support group, unions, sold out by the very ones they helped elect.

[RLJ676]

The race to the bottom began when our politicians, most of the ones supported by the big unions (ie; Carter/Clinton) gave foreign competition a leg up by approving NAFTA and Most Favored Trading Status.

The ultimate irony, the number two largest support group, unions, sold out by the very ones they helped elect.

Yep, everyone that harps on about a "global economy" needs to think about the rest of the world's society. A global economy means a theoretical global "equilibrium" will be reached where there's no more low cost to source to and a global standard of living. That's awesome if you're Malaysia, not so good if you're the US and used to the highest standard of living in the world.

Oh, and an AMERICAN car is made by an American company. A Japanese car is made by a Japanese company and so on.

Just because they have some employees here does not make the product American, just as an Opel or Ford built in Germany is still an "American car" in the minds of Germans, despite Opel and Ford being long established there and run completely by Germans until recently (only recently started operating globally). What's next, people rationalizing their Porsche is "American" because it was sold to them by an American at the dealership, and delivered to that dealership by an American truck driver?

[Wrinkleface]

I've never bought a foreign car. I support American jobs. Even if you buy a foreign make that's built here, the profit still goes to the overseas manufacturer.

I believe in buy'n American, can't deny there R some nice foreign cars I would have!! I practice Dentistry just south of Flint MI, where alot of my livelihood is from GM people. I can't have a foreign car sit'n in my park'n lot!! W/ that said, last year I leased a Saab, which is 100 % owned by GM, I got a friends & family discount from a retired GM engineer friend of mine & have a GMAC lease! I have not had 1 patient say a word 2 me!! Of course, I can mention all the qualifications I just did above! What do ya do w/ that 1??????

[03darkshadow]

Sure, but pays him less and gives less benefits. Less paid to their workers here (which pro-transplant people seem to think is better) means more profit back to Japan, and less staying in this economy. The car never costs less because of this labor advantage.

If the UAW is busted, there's no reason at all for the transplants to pay as well as they do to keep the UAW out, really beginning the race to the bottom. New UAW guys only make 15, so the new transplant guys could easily be making 13 or less. Great for profits, but not so great for what used to be the middle class, and all the communities that are built on those middle class factory guys.




i dont in anyway think its an american company just because they make the vehicle in america. i know where the profits go, i just think its good that they at least employ american workers. they may not make as much, but a job is better then no job.

[Wrinkleface]

i dont in anyway think its an american company just because they make the vehicle in america. i know where the profits go, i just think its good that they at least employ american workers. they may not make as much, but a job is better then no job.

:iagree: If not, we would probably B pay'n alot of people's welfare checks!! They R make'n some money & buy'n stuff like mortgages, food etc etc etc!!

[VtSteve]

I had been a Toyota investor for quite some time. I think the reasons were obvious, but to some, maybe not. Third Avenue Value Fund had Toyota Industries listed as their top investment for years. Honda as well was a very good investment. GM and Ford, not so much. When the industries come back, they depend on foreign investment to make it all work. "Generally speaking", money follows good management, and good returns.

The Big Three lobbied heavily for two things, a change in the EPA mileage calculations and a change years ago in the content labeling. There's a reason that they use the term North American Content. They are as disingenuous as their marketing. The Malibu is based on an Opel platform, and is arguably the best mass production car Chevy has made in decades. A bit pricey for what it is, but good.

Get rid of the crappy management and the dual-boss persona of the Unions, and we'll have a real game. Right now, the Big Three are run by slugs.

[cosmic12]

I don't know about 98 Lexus, but in 2000 the Cadillac scored higher in Consumer Guides than the Lexus.

That may be true but look at the resale value. You couldn't give me one with the cost of repair on them and they don't last the test of time. My 98 SC300 has 103k on it and is like brand new, its still got the orig belts and hose's and not showing any signs of wear. I had to jump start a guy the other day and stood there looking and listening to the engine run and all I could do was smile and think man, just like a swiss clock.

[MarylandMark]

I believe in buy'n American, can't deny there R some nice foreign cars I would have!! I practice Dentistry just south of Flint MI, where alot of my livelihood is from GM people. I can't have a foreign car sit'n in my park'n lot!!

I know quite a few people in the same situation and would buy foreign in a minute if they weren't. They lease cars so they don't have to worry about crappy resale or long term maintenance.


but a job is better then no job.

Amen to that, however I do see the flip side. The are a ton of jobs in China but also a ton of people living boxes as well. I don't feel like a "livable wage" is so far fetched. $30/hour w/benefits when the top 50 suits make $5M+ a year with the top guy making over $20M.

I'm far from a union fan but everyone wants to take from the guy that showers at night rather than in the morning.

[Airpacker]

That may be true but look at the resale value. You couldn't give me one with the cost of repair on them and they don't last the test of time. My 98 SC300 has 103k on it and is like brand new, its still got the orig belts and hose's and not showing any signs of wear. I had to jump start a guy the other day and stood there looking and listening to the engine run and all I could do was smile and think man, just like a swiss clock.
Thats because when Toyota had severe cylinder head issues with the 3.0 V6, they went back to the drawing board and FIXED the faults. GM on the other hand just bored and stroked the disaster that was the 3.1 V6 to a 3.4 and left the design faults in. Why did GM have intake and head gasket failures and lifter clatter on a mass produced engine for over 10 yrs without ever addressing the problems? Maybe they thought that if it runs past warranty, its a good design?

[catmando]

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/simmermaker/ba-0008-bintro.shtml

If we buy foreign owned, American made products over American owned foreign made products, we still stand to lose.

How your should buy if you want "American":

1. American owned, American made
2. American owned, foreign made
3. foreign owned, American made
4. foreign owned, foreign madeMy truck is #2 unfortunately. I didn't notice the Made In Mexico door sticker until after I had driven it for a month. Oh well it's a Dodge, and even though it was made in Mexico, it's been a great truck. No issues with any components after 60,000 miles. I'm happy with it.