Mercury Pulls The Plug??

[Geronimo36]

I was chatting with Stip Poker Rob today. He heard there was an announcement by Mercury Racing at the OSS race that they were pulling the plug on all sponsorship $$$....:leaving::(

Anyone hear the same???

[2112]

Does that mean the rules will allow other manufactures to compete now?:lurk5:

[phragle]

dollar per dollar they have the i/o market and a decent chunk of the ob market. what do they have to gain by mass sponsorship??particularly in a depressed market.

[Ratickle]

dollar per dollar they have the i/o market and a decent chunk of the ob market. what do they have to gain by mass sponsorship??particularly in a depressed market.

I don't want to speculate, but with the Konrads, Arnesons, etc that are out there now. They may be making an error in judgement if that is true.

[ILMORdude]

And some new players in the mix............................

[stainless]

Good opp for Ilmor to step up and do a little something!

[2112]

Good opp for Ilmor to step up and do a little something!

And the other Drive manufacturers. :sifone:

[Scarab KV]

I find it hard to believe. Guess time will tell

[Geronimo36]

I believe its confirmed, Biloxi last race.

[Scarab KV]

Hmmmm...have always wanted to see how Konrads held up under extreme conditions as a replacement for my TRS's

[2112]

Konrads, Arnesons, Weismanns, Imcos and maybe the eluxive x-drive to name a few?:leaving:

[Marginmn]

Too many racing organizations with too few competitors is a recepie for disaster even in good economic times. In bad times it's a death nail.

We've seen this movie before here in Indianapolis with the CART/IRL War. Dillution of competitiion makes the sport irrelevant as the fan base loses interest with so many different series and drivers to keep track of. Over time more and more sponsors naturally pull the plug. Heck I own an offshore boat and I cant remember the last time that I sat in front of a TV and watched or much less cared about who won an offshore race.

[Ratickle]

Too many racing organizations with too few competitors is a recepie for disaster even in good economic times. In bad times it's a death nail.

We've seen this movie before here in Indianapolis with the CART/IRL War. Dillution of competitiion makes the sport irrelevant as the fan base loses interest with so many different series and drivers to keep track of. Over time more and more sponsors naturally pull the plug. Heck I own an offshore boat and I cant remember the last time that I sat in front of a TV and watched or much less cared about who won an offshore race.

No offshore TV to speak of. That I don't understand.

[rschap1]

SAD
Just another victim of this poor economy.
I can see where they would want to pull in and conserve every $ that they can. I really wonder if they were turning any profit or just hoping for more revenue from advertising and exposure. I think it would be REAL hard for any other manufacturer of any size or shape to fill shoes like Mercs...May not be a good idea for them, but I just don't see anybody else HUGE enough to compare. Even though not hi-po, Volvo would probably be next in size and $$, I wouldn't think they'd be interested. No disrespect to Konrad, Illmoore, or any others at all. I'd love to see something different, but I just imagine mountains of cash would be needed.

[DonziGirl]

I heard they were done from some friends that were in Biloxi

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Brunswick Mercury's parent company pulled the plug as it was explained to us in Biloxi. Mercury had no say in the matter.

[Scarab KV]

Brunswick Mercury's parent company pulled the plug as it was explained to us in Biloxi. Mercury had no say in the matter.

Jim, in you own opinion. Do you see alot of your guys making any hardware changes?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Jim, in you own opinion. Do you see alot of your guys making any hardware changes?

I would say not. Mercury is still going to supply parts. The 525's run a long time and have proven time and time again to be reliable engines.

Mercury is not to blame Brunswick is. Anyone who works for a big corporation must have fallen victim to decisions like this. Mercury is still a friend of OSS. We hope the future brings a change back. Only time will tell.
I can only speculate that other manufactures are in no better shape.


Incidentally SuperV has adopted P1 rules with every manufacture welcome. So far there are no takers. I also expect 750 Cat isn't a lock either.

[Scarab KV]

I would say not. Mercury is still going to supply parts. The 525's run a long time and have proven time and time again to be reliable engines.

Mercury is not to blame Brunswick is. Anyone who works for a big corporation must have fallen victim to decisions like this. Mercury is still a friend of OSS. We hope the future brings a change back. Only time will tell.
I can only speculate that other manufactures are in no better shape.


Incidentally SuperV has adopted P1 rules with every manufacture welcome. So far there are no takers. I also expect 750 Cat isn't a lock either.

Thanks Jim. Got a couple questions to hit ya with later in the post count thread. I won't hijack this one

[ILMORdude]

.......................................
Incidentally SuperV has adopted P1 rules with every manufacture welcome. So far there are no takers. I also expect 750 Cat isn't a lock either.

It means change from a heavy V8!! People dont like to shy away from whats the "norm." 1300lb, 525hp-750-ish hp V8 or choose a 570hp, 625, or 700hp V10 ALL AT 800LBS. Fountain Worldwide kicked some tail in Europe and no one over here has even thought about a package like that...............

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It means change from a heavy V8!! People dont like to shy away from whats the "norm." 1300lb, 525hp-750-ish hp V8 or choose a 570hp, 625, or 700hp V10 ALL AT 800LBS. Fountain Worldwide kicked some tail in Europe and no one over here has even thought about a package like that...............

That is a great option. It would be nice to see some racing in SuperV

I am not sure your weight comparison is accurate.

[Pete B]

It means change from a heavy V8!! People dont like to shy away from whats the "norm." 1300lb, 525hp-750-ish hp V8 or choose a 570hp, 625, or 700hp V10 ALL AT 800LBS. Fountain Worldwide kicked some tail in Europe and no one over here has even thought about a package like that...............

Sponsoring a team, with a couple of motors might get the motors some more exposure!

[Ron P]

Yes, unfortunately it's true. Brunswick is entrenched in discretionary income items such as boats and pool tables. They are a public company that is doing very badly these days. It came down from Brunswick that Mercury Racing would need to discontinue it's race support efforts.

Since OSS runs all Mercury products we will find a way to have parts and technical support on site at all future races.

We made the conscience decision earlier this year to open our series to open cockpit boats and other engine and drive manufactures by adopting the P1 Rules.

Super Vee - These boats should run in the low 90s

13. Supercharging and/or turbo charging for gas inboard engines is prohibited.
14. Maximum engine capacity per engine shall not exceed:
- Naturally Aspirated Gas Engines – 506 Cu. In. (8.3 L)
- Naturally Aspirated Diesel Engines – 512 Cu. In. (8.4 L)
- Supercharged / Turbocharged Diesel Engines – 458 Cu. In. (7.5 L)
15. Have a maximum power to weight ratio of one (1) hp per 9.92 lbs. (4.5kg) (no
tolerance)



Vee Extreme - Should run just over 110mph

7. Supercharging or turbo charging is allowed.
8. Aftermarket parts are allowed.
9. Multispeed gear boxes are prohibited;
10. Engine capacities; the maximum engine capacities shall be;
- Naturally Aspirated Gas – 671 Cu. In. (11.0 L)
- Supercharged / Turbocharged Gas – 557 Cu. In. (9.13 L)
- Supercharged / Turbocharged Diesel – 793 Cu. In. (13.0 L)
11. Have a maximum power to weight ratio of one (1) hp per 7.72 lbs. (3.5 kg) (no tolerance).

OSS Cat Class allows anyone to build the spec 750 hp engine for this class.

So the door is open.

Ron

[ILMORdude]

That is a great option. It would be nice to see some racing in SuperV

I am not sure your weight comparison is accurate.

U know what a 525 weighs. I dont know exactly what they do but they are pretty heavy. what do they weigh?

[ILMORdude]

Sponsoring a team, with a couple of motors might get the motors some more exposure!

We did with Fountain Worldwide for 2 yrs and netted back to back championships. Priority has been the INDY package and new engines to the market so no sponsorships coming from us for a bit.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

U know what a 525 weighs. I dont know exactly what they do but they are pretty heavy. what do they weigh?

They advertise the 525 at 1201lbs. I understand that is complete with a bravo.

They 850 at 1720 with a #6

Did the weight you mentioned include your drive?

[stainless]

We did with Fountain Worldwide for 2 yrs and netted back to back championships. Priority has been the INDY package and new engines to the market so no sponsorships coming from us for a bit.

if you guys hook me up with some trannies i'll run em in my next skater for a little field testing!:26:

[Rik]

We did with Fountain Worldwide for 2 yrs and netted back to back championships. Priority has been the INDY package and new engines to the market so no sponsorships coming from us for a bit.

Hey, you forgot to mention that Fountain, Arneson Surface Drives and the Wilsons were instrumental in the success of winning the P1 championship 2 yrs in a row also!:biggrinjester:

[Wahoo 214]

I looked into running the P1 power to weight rules with our 38 Fountain, but the numbers just don't add up. I would need to add nearly 1000lbs. to make wieght with my 525s. (590hp)

How does a cut down 42 loaded with carbon fiber, light weight engine package and light weight surface drives make weight? As a guess that boats weighs 8000lbs dry, they need to come in at about 10800lbs and still run 110ish and be stabile. I can't figure that one out.

[Dunbar 104]

I looked into running the P1 power to weight rules with our 38 Fountain, but the numbers just don't add up. I would need to add nearly 1000lbs. to make wieght with my 525s. (590hp)

How does a cut down 42 loaded with carbon fiber, light weight engine package and light weight surface drives make weight? As a guess that boats weighs 8000lbs dry, they need to come in at about 10800lbs and still run 110ish and be stabile. I can't figure that one out.

I don't think that power to weight really solved anything. It still comes down to who has the most effecient hull. It worked at first till the math guys figured out the right hp to weight requirement. What is faster 525s with 1000 lbs added or 700s with 2000 lbs. Fountain knows.

[T2x]

As I understand it, Mercury Marine will continue to offer the racing products, props and drives out of the main plant in Fon Du Lac on an order by order basis only.. There will not be a racing division, or separate sales and customer service under the "Mercury Racing" banner and I presume no new racing products will be developed.

If this is not correct please advise.

Thanks,

T2x

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I hadn't done the new math myself.

Old Super V rules in the past have been. 8000 with blowers in 98. That soon became near 10,000 in the next years in effort to slow them down. In 2001 APBA banned blowers and the weight was 8500 I think not sure with Supercat motors. In 2004 SuperV in OSS was 8000 with 525 We ended up at 8250 in effort to keep everyone even.

In my experience adding weight doesn't slow a good boat down much or at all. Like Mark said some hulls are more efficient than others and weight will not equalize it between brands IMO. Maybe if an efficiency factor was developed Like Nascar does with different spoiler heights on different brands. I don't know what the best approach is , but for now twin V's are spread across countless classes. V twin IMO is dying a slow death. There may be more V twin classes than all others combined.



It is sad for me to say cause I have always loved that class. On paper Super V with 525 and 6 's is awesome.

My interest now lies in SVL and Cat OB. Both show promise.

[shifter]

It is hard to eat popcorn with the big smile on my face.:lurk5::drool5:

pat W

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

As I understand it, Mercury Marine will continue to offer the racing products, props and drives out of the main plant in Fon Du Lac on an order by order basis only.. There will not be a racing division, or separate sales and customer service under the "Mercury Racing" banner and I presume no new racing products will be developed.

If this is not correct please advise.

Thanks,

T2x

I don't now , but no new stuff want hurt anything in my opinion. The progression of motors in 500's to EFI's to 525 played a huge part in Factory classes end along with the canopy introduction in the class and staggered engine configuration. By the time the dust settled nearly every one left Spec V twin class.

[Rik]

I looked into running the P1 power to weight rules with our 38 Fountain, but the numbers just don't add up. I would need to add nearly 1000lbs. to make wieght with my 525s. (590hp)

How does a cut down 42 loaded with carbon fiber, light weight engine package and light weight surface drives make weight? As a guess that boats weighs 8000lbs dry, they need to come in at about 10800lbs and still run 110ish and be stabile. I can't figure that one out.

It's all in the drives, and 110 won't cut it in P1!:sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It's all in the drives, and 110 won't cut it in P1!:sifone:

If all the V's ran together ,unlimited included ,Fountain worldwide would have won as time from results show. Hard Rock 2nd , Mikosukee third.

As it was World wide Won, Hard Rock Won, and Mikosukee won twice, Lucas Oil won, Davis Motorsports won.

Non of the unlimiteds ran well all three days and non of them on time beat any of the class 3 boats.

Seven V twin World champions were born as a result.

{ on time I mean average speed. Some ran a greater distance than others }

Hard Rock ran 154 miles, Lucas Oil 129, WorldWide 71,Mikosukkee 71 plus 81

[Rik]

If all the V's ran together ,unlimited included ,Fountain worldwide would have won as time from results show. Hard Rock 2nd , Mikosukee third.

As it was World wide Won, Hard Rock Won, and Mikosukee won twice, Lucas Oil won, Davis Motorsports won.

Non of the unlimiteds ran well all three days and non of them on time beat any of the class 3 boats.

Seven V twin World champions were born as a result.

{ on time I mean average speed. Some ran a greater distance than others }

Hard Rock ran 154 miles, Lucas Oil 129, WorldWide 71,Mikosukkee 71 plus 81


The funny part is (if these #'s are from 08' KW) that boat was not the one the raced in Europe, which is suppose to be 8 mph faster on top end and faster in the turns by far according to Sheppard and Wilson.

[Wahoo 214]

It's all in the drives, and 110 won't cut it in P1!:sifone:

You are probably right on both counts.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Rik, it is '08 KW.

Do you have a suggestion for a P1 combination That would work here in the states? What if any would work well against 525 #6 boats. And or modified 525's.

People talk about making high powered V's but I don't think there is any reason to have them go over 120. I think the 90 and 110 targets are good. I good 525 boat will go 110.

[T2x]

The P-1 series would be successful as either a spec class or a Wgt/Hp formula format.....because the secret is the number of classes...national pride... professional management...and a good sponsor based budget.

T2x

[Wahoo 214]

Rik, it is '08 KW.

Do you have a suggestion for a P1 combination That would work here in the states? What if any would work well against 525 #6 boats. And or modified 525's.

People talk about making high powered V's but I don't think there is any reason to have them go over 120. I think the 90 and 110 targets are good. I good 525 boat will go 110.

One of the problems I see that it is only a HP/Weight ratio. Not torque. You could build a torgue monster with big crank and down play the hp when building the motor. It would be killer on short or rough courses.

[Rik]

One of the problems I see that it is only a HP/Weight ratio. Not torque. You could build a torgue monster with big crank and down play the hp when building the motor. It would be killer on short or rough courses.

This is exactly what Merc did with their 710 race engines for P1. It was basically an 850 (which is a net motor so more closely to a 925 hp motor) and then they remapped the boost by pass valve (think waste gate from the turbo days) and they controlled the boost to not make more than 740ish hp. Big torque as it had a lot of boost down low and limited hp as they bleed it off on top end.

Would have work great had it been reliable. They were popping faster than popcorn in an oil fire.

Does this work? NO. Why? Simple.

Example: Signor Miguel Hook has/had a 399 Skater with 525's that ran very successfully in America that he took to the P1 class and changed power and adjusted weight.

He by all accounts (it was on his U Tube Video) was running in the races at 110 mph possible faster in some that he did not post on the Internet.

Miguel put these new trick Merc engines in the boat. Added a ton (literally) to the boat and he does not reach the same race speeds as he did with the stock 525's. Acceleration was better but as the boost pulled back at the top end the engines could not pull the additional weight.

I might be wrong, but I feel he would have been more successful had he left the 525's in the boat, less weight and possible higher speeds. BUT he also might not have had the acceleration and might not have achieved a higher average speed than he achieved with the 710's due to the torque difference.

This year he is racing with CHIEF engines. Should be more reliable than the Merc.

As for your boat, the HP to weight rule is not a bad thing. One thing no one has brought to light is how much havic the weight played on the boats structurally in those ROUGH races in P1 last year. It is a different sea conditions than we have in the states racing.

[ILMORdude]

This is exactly what Merc did with their 710 race engines for P1. It was basically an 850 (which is a net motor so more closely to a 925 hp motor) and then they remapped the boost by pass valve (think waste gate from the turbo days) and they controlled the boost to not make more than 740ish hp. Big torque as it had a lot of boost down low and limited hp as they bleed it off on top end.

Would have work great had it been reliable. They were popping faster than popcorn in an oil fire.

Does this work? NO. Why? Simple.

Example: Signor Miguel Hook has/had a 399 Skater with 525's that ran very successfully in America that he took to the P1 class and changed power and adjusted weight.

He by all accounts (it was on his U Tube Video) was running in the races at 110 mph possible faster in some that he did not post on the Internet.

Miguel put these new trick Merc engines in the boat. Added a ton (literally) to the boat and he does not reach the same race speeds as he did with the stock 525's. Acceleration was better but as the boost pulled back at the top end the engines could not pull the additional weight.

I might be wrong, but I feel he would have been more successful had he left the 525's in the boat, less weight and possible higher speeds. BUT he also might not have had the acceleration and might not have achieved a higher average speed than he achieved with the 710's due to the torque difference.

This year he is racing with CHIEF engines. Should be more reliable than the Merc.

As for your boat, the HP to weight rule is not a bad thing. One thing no one has brought to light is how much havic the weight played on the boats structurally in those ROUGH races in P1 last year. It is a different sea conditions than we have in the states racing.

WE at Ilmor do the 710. Merc decided to ne-name their P1 spec engine the "711" Haha

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

One thing no one has brought to light is how much havic the weight played on the boats structurally in those ROUGH races in P1 last year. It is a different sea conditions than we have in the states racing.

Adding all that weight is bad in many respects. It is hard to secure. It is a safety nuisance. The boat will rapidly sink if swamped or damaged. Adding a couple hundred pounds is OK adding 1500 is crazy.

The 525 boats are plenty fast. Find a realistic weight and/or X restriction to make a Illmor and 525 even. Sure blowers are cool, but race not show off.

I have a question Rik, Is there a way to restrict or limit the heights on surface drives like spacers or a given X on 6's?

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

WE at Ilmor do the 710. Merc decided to ne-name their P1 spec engine the "711" Haha
I only prefer 711 for coffee....:sifone:

Thanks for all of the support in offshore that ILMOR has put forth.

Your product seems second to none.

[Rik]

Adding all that weight is bad in many respects. It is hard to secure. It is a safety nuisance. The boat will rapidly sink if swamped or damaged. Adding a couple hundred pounds is OK adding 1500 is crazy.

The 525 boats are plenty fast. Find a realistic weight and/or X restriction to make a Illmor and 525 even. Sure blowers are cool, but race not show off.

I have a question Rik, Is there a way to restrict or limit the heights on surface drives like spacers or a given X on 6's?

Hell no. This is why they are called surface drives. No way to restrict it and there really is no formula on the #6's as each manufacturers likes something different so what they would use for a control would be great for the control boat and bad for the non control boat.

HP/lb is just that nothing more. Making some sort of technical handicap is not fair to manufactures. If the 6's are best buy them, if not buy something else.

Remember, competition is what is best not handicapping the best to be the same as the worst. You are starting to sound like OBAMA there Jim.:leaving:

[Ron P]

You are starting to sound like OBAMA there Jim.:leaving:


Ouch, now that's a low blow.:ack2:

[ILMORdude]

Remember, competition is what is best not handicapping the best to be the same as the worst. You are starting to sound like OBAMA there Jim.:leaving:

Ahhhh, the ol "YES WE CAN"

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I am thinking about how to match the ILMORs and Arnesons. To 525 and 6's.

I am not familiar with the Ilmors to make a fair comparison. I am wondering if an existing Ilmor package can pair up with an existing Merc package like the 525 6 combo. I am not implying any comparison of drives just looking for ways to equalize different power options.

[Rik]

I am thinking about how to match the ILMORs and Arnesons. To 525 and 6's.

I am not familiar with the Ilmors to make a fair comparison. I am wondering if an existing Ilmor package can pair up with an existing Merc package like the 525 6 combo. I am not implying any comparison of drives just looking for ways to equalize different power options.

Ilmor and others for that matter, make an equivalent engine power to the Merc 525.

[ILMORdude]

Ilmor and others for that matter, make an equivalent engine power to the Merc 525.

We have a 570hp. Arent the merc 525s rated at the prop? They make like 585hp or something? The V10 with arns is a pretty sweet package.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Whats the deal with the new Indy drive? Is it something that could be used on a race boat.
Is there something you could post or link to that is or could potentially be a race package?
Whether it is with the Indy or Arneson?

[H2O Full Throttle]

How about taking the ILMOR Indy Car engine and sticking it in an unlimited class raceboat, now that would be cool :) :)

[ThrottleUp Props]

I would guess the big difference between the Ilmor and Merc 525 isn't so much the HP but the rpm difference.

The Ilmor 575 rev limiter is about 600 higher than the 525. This would allow the use of a prop 3" smaller in pitch with the same top end. Needless to say, assuming torque is similar, the Ilmor boat would accelerate better.

Personally I would like to see the allowed motor to be any motor with the same horsepower as a 525 with similar cubic inches. This would allow other motor manufacturers in the field. In cat lite any surface drive should be allowed, Weaisman, Merc, Ilmor, Arneson etc.

This would put pressure on engine and drive manufacturers to improve their product. Just like props, there is fierce competition/R & D with prop manufacturers to keep thier product on top. There were more prop manufacturers represented at the Key West race than any other industry. Only one motor manufacturer, Mercury.

Another huge benefit to the racers is competition brings prices down!!!! Racers pay less for props now than even 4 years ago since there are several manufactures making props now. A few years ago to be competative you had to pay whatever Hering wanted because there wasn't really a viable option.

While I hope Mercury can work things out and rebound I think this is really a great opportunity to get other marine manufacturers involved with racing. I know there are some manufactures who want to be involved with racing but have not been allowed due to rules. In the end it should be a win/win for both the racers and manufacturers.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The Ilmor 575 rev limiter is about 600 higher than the 525. This would allow the use of a prop 3" smaller in pitch with the same top end. Needless to say, assuming torque is similar, the Ilmor boat would accelerate better.

Personally I would like to see the allowed motor to be any motor with the same horsepower as a 525 with similar cubic inches. This would allow other motor manufacturers in the field. In cat lite any surface drive should be allowed, Weaisman, Merc, Ilmor, Arneson etc.


While I hope Mercury can work things out and rebound I think this is really a great opportunity to get other marine manufacturers involved with racing. I know there are some manufactures who want to be involved with racing but have not been allowed due to rules. In the end it should be a win/win for both the racers and manufacturers.

I basically agree. I think if the Ilmor can match up allow them in. I hate to see cat light get disrupted though. I agree other manufactures in the upper cat classes and super v is a plus.

I think before anyone attempts to tear down the all the merc spec classes some of these other Manufactures should step up and support in some way.

I hope Mercury can return soon. I also hope others take this opportunity to join in.

[ThrottleUp Props]

It would be sooooo sweet to hear several Ilmor powered boats racing. That would be second only to a Super Cat 750 screaming by at 7600 rpm.

[ILMORdude]

It would be sooooo sweet to hear several Ilmor powered boats racing. That would be second only to a Super Cat 750 screaming by at 7600 rpm.

Or maybe there will be an ILMOR supercat engine? What about a 7600rpm V10?

[ILMORdude]

There were more prop manufacturers represented at the Key West race than any other industry. Only one motor manufacturer, Mercury.



We were there "playin" in the P class with Fount. Worldwide

[Ratickle]

We were there "playin" in the P class with Fount. Worldwide

I remember it. Sounded like the old supercat engines. Love that sound....

[Sean H]

Or maybe there will be an ILMOR supercat engine? What about a 7600rpm V10?

build it, sponsor a team, bring a support rig, put up prize and contigency funds... you do that, I am sure race series will take it seriously.

[Pete B]

build it, sponsor a team, bring a support rig, put up prize and contigency funds... you do that, I am sure race series will take it seriously.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Is there other equipment that can compete, YES. Will they put up the $$$ ????? the million dollar question!

[ILMORdude]

build it, sponsor a team, bring a support rig, put up prize and contigency funds... you do that, I am sure race series will take it seriously.

If it were 1995, im sure it would be no big deal, but today is a different story. ILMOR designed a motor from paper to the front row of indy in like 7 months. Then it was BANNED because it was an unbelievable engine that made stupid power. C Spray will chime in now. But these days, fun projects like that cant happen. But it would be oh so cool to do, sponsor, support rig, and put up money and have a riot all the people at the races!!

[Sean H]

If it were 1995, im sure it would be no big deal, but today is a different story. ILMOR designed a motor from paper to the front row of indy in like 7 months. Then it was BANNED because it was an unbelievable engine that made stupid power. C Spray will chime in now. But these days, fun projects like that cant happen. But it would be oh so cool to do, sponsor, support rig, and put up money and have a riot all the people at the races!!

Then I think it is a bit of a pipe dream to think that a manufacturer is going to be in a supercat or supercat lite type class if they are unwilling to support the racers or series. There are politics in all racing, if that is your reason for not racing, then why even bother? From F1 all the way down to Saturday night dirt track racing there are politics, that goes hand and hand with racing.

Take KW last year for example. We went over on Friday. Mercury got us going again for Sunday. Without a semi full of parts and 3 or 4 techs help, we would not have made it out for Sunday. What would of happened if that was an ilmor boat? or sterling? I am guessing a pat on the back and "sorry buddy".

Take reliable in kw for the other example, they lost an engine, if it wasn't for jimmy and spare engines for talk'n trash, reliable wouldnt have made it back out. mike was there (and i like mike), but other than moral support, he wasn't much help.

So when these other companies jump up and down and say "let us in, let us in", yet want to do nothing to support it, just sell product, I always chuckle a little.

So with Mercury Racing/Brunswick issues, this is a great time for somebody to step up, will anybody? I doubt it.

[Ryan Beckley]

Great post Sean !!!

[ILMORdude]

Then I think it is a bit of a pipe dream to think that a manufacturer is going to be in a supercat or supercat lite type class if they are unwilling to support the racers or series. There are politics in all racing, if that is your reason for not racing, then why even bother? From F1 all the way down to Saturday night dirt track racing there are politics, that goes hand and hand with racing.

Take KW last year for example. We went over on Friday. Mercury got us going again for Sunday. Without a semi full of parts and 3 or 4 techs help, we would not have made it out for Sunday. What would of happened if that was an ilmor boat? or sterling? I am guessing a pat on the back and "sorry buddy".

Take reliable in kw for the other example, they lost an engine, if it wasn't for jimmy and spare engines for talk'n trash, reliable wouldnt have made it back out. mike was there (and i like mike), but other than moral support, he wasn't much help.

So when these other companies jump up and down and say "let us in, let us in", yet want to do nothing to support it, just sell product, I always chuckle a little.

So with Mercury Racing/Brunswick issues, this is a great time for somebody to step up, will anybody? I doubt it.

Well first of all, it was more of a "it would be cool if" statement about a high revving V10. Im an engine tech, not the decision maker for our company. We sell engines for the performance boating community and have never seriously tried to "tap" into boat racing in the states. As for customer service, considering we sent people all over the country replacing a whole bad batch of springs in less than a week, so yes we pat our customers on the back. But we said "happy boating" after we fixed everyone in 5 states on the other side of the county. Our manager and myself have been in owners personal garages helping them in the engine compartment. We havent focused on racing or asked to be let in. Im sure if our people wanted to race here, it would happen. We sell to the performance boater and sometimes the occasional "wanna be different racer." I love boat racing and wish the diff. series could find a common platform and everyone could race like hell together. :seeya:

[Sean H]

Well first of all, it was more of a "it would be cool if" statement about a high revving V10. Im an engine tech, not the decision maker for our company. We sell engines for the performance boating community and have never seriously tried to "tap" into boat racing in the states. As for customer service, considering we sent people all over the country replacing a whole bad batch of springs in less than a week, so yes we pat our customers on the back. But we said "happy boating" after we fixed everyone in 5 states on the other side of the county. Our manager and myself have been in owners personal garages helping them in the engine compartment. We havent focused on racing or asked to be let in. Im sure if our people wanted to race here, it would happen. We sell to the performance boater and sometimes the occasional "wanna be different racer." I love boat racing and wish the diff. series could find a common platform and everyone could race like hell together. :seeya:

and i wasn't picking on you guys in particular, from what i have seen, you guys make a great product, you could just put "company x" in there instead...

[Geronimo36]

Positive spin...... Hopefully when Illmore sells enough packages to support an extravagent marketing budget, they'll be able to support the race series! :)

This is why mercury also charges $100K+ for the 1075SC's... money has to come from somewhere... ;)

but look what happened... economy crashes....money isn't flowing like water thru the customers anymore (SeanH, hopefully you sold your crude before taking a bath..can't say I didn't say so years ago. ;)) ....marketing (race support) is slashed and all the sudden everyone say's... why the f' would i ever pay $100K+ for these egnine packages? ;) :)

[Sean H]

Positive spin...... Hopefully when Illmore sells enough packages to support an extravagent marketing budget, they'll be able to support the race series! :)

This is why mercury also charges $100K+ for the 1075SC's... money has to come from somewhere... ;)

but look what happened... economy crashes....money isn't flowing like water thru the customers anymore (SeanH, hopefully you sold your crude before taking a bath..can't say I didn't say so years ago. ;)) ....marketing (race support) is slashed and all the sudden everyone say's... why the f' would i ever pay $100K+ for these egnine packages? ;) :)

futures are only 90 days, no worries, even got to short it on the way down... :sifone:

and whatever dealer told you 100k+ for a 1075 was screwing you, not mercury. you can almost get the whole engine/trans/gimble/drive for that.

[ILMORdude]

and i wasn't picking on you guys in particular, from what i have seen, you guys make a great product, you could just put "company x" in there instead...

Word. I just know what a great company i work for and had to state a few facts. I'd love for our new package to take off and we could go big time racing. :cheers2:

[Geronimo36]

and whatever dealer told you 100k+ for a 1075 was screwing you, not mercury. you can almost get the whole engine/trans/gimble/drive for that.

I was speaking of the whole package..... Way overpriced...

No dealers for me...I used to be a mechanic at a Mercruiser shop.....mark-up's are rediculous....

[tarzan]

merc rules

[2112]

So when these other companies jump up and down and say "let us in, let us in", yet want to do nothing to support it, just sell product, I always chuckle a little.

.

Just asking, Does Mercury provide service and parts as part of the original equipment purchase price?

.

[Sean Stinson]

I had a brief conversation with a rather large parts house and came to the conclusion it wasn't financially feasible!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Just asking, Does Mercury provide service and parts as part of the original equipment purchase price?

.

What they did do was provide service and availability of parts. Labor was gratis parts available at a racers price.

It was very nice to have their support.

[Uncle Dave]

and i wasn't picking on you guys in particular, from what i have seen, you guys make a great product, you could just put "company x" in there instead...


Insert company X?

What other performance propulsion company in our industry has made a larger commitment than Ilmor over that last 5 years?

Its Merc and Ilmor with no one else in sight.

Uncle Dave

[2112]

What they did do was provide service and availability of parts. Labor was gratis parts available at a racers price.

It was very nice to have their support.


That does take cubic $$$$ :rolleyes:

.

[Sean H]

Insert company X?

What other performance propulsion company in our industry has made a larger commitment than Ilmor over that last 5 years?

Its Merc and Ilmor with no one else in sight.

Uncle Dave

Since this thread is about offshore racing, I would ask what commitment?

There isn't even a US team that runs their products here.

[Sean H]

That does take cubic $$$$ :rolleyes:

.

and not only was the labor free, the parts usually came from your contigency fund.... so basically, it was all free.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

and not only was the labor free, the parts usually came from your contigency fund.... so basically, it was all free.

The best part was their willingness to help. Ask and help came running.

There were all great guys. I will miss them.

Some have been adopted to teams so they are still a part of the show.

[BradH]

Having the Merc truck eliminated the need to carry so many spares. I think it will change the way many people prepare for the races.

[T2x]

Then I think it is a bit of a pipe dream to think that a manufacturer is going to be in a supercat or supercat lite type class if they are unwilling to support the racers or series. There are politics in all racing, if that is your reason for not racing, then why even bother? From F1 all the way down to Saturday night dirt track racing there are politics, that goes hand and hand with racing.

Take KW last year for example. We went over on Friday. Mercury got us going again for Sunday. Without a semi full of parts and 3 or 4 techs help, we would not have made it out for Sunday. What would of happened if that was an ilmor boat? or sterling? I am guessing a pat on the back and "sorry buddy".

Take reliable in kw for the other example, they lost an engine, if it wasn't for jimmy and spare engines for talk'n trash, reliable wouldnt have made it back out. mike was there (and i like mike), but other than moral support, he wasn't much help.

So when these other companies jump up and down and say "let us in, let us in", yet want to do nothing to support it, just sell product, I always chuckle a little.

So with Mercury Racing/Brunswick issues, this is a great time for somebody to step up, will anybody? I doubt it.

Bingo.......

Bottom line...you don't know what you've got til it's gone.............

T2x

[Pete B]

Bingo.......

Bottom line...you don't know what you've got til it's gone.............

T2x

Not sure How this was to be taken, but I know the teams from OSS all appreciated what Mercury Racing, the support truck and the skilled techs they brought to the race sites did.

Look at last years Miami to Bimini run, 2nd , 3rd and 4th Overall were STOCK
525's/#6 boats. The I build a better motor is very overplayed, with the Miami-bimini race right around the corner, its a chance to prove something!!!

Mercury Power and Skater did very well!!

[DonziGirl]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Sterling brought a couple of mechanics to the races that boats that ran their engines were in. They might not have a semi truck of parts, etc but I thought they were at least there to provide some help.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Bingo.......

Bottom line...you don't know what you've got til it's gone.............

T2x

I have always been a supporter of Mercury. I have enjoyed, appreciated, and valued their assistance.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Sterling brought a couple of mechanics to the races that boats that ran their engines were in. They might not have a semi truck of parts, etc but I thought they were at least there to provide some help.

Being there is one thing. Getting dirty helping is something else entirely.

[shifter]

:lurk5::drool5::puke: too much popcorn.

[Sean Stinson]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Sterling brought a couple of mechanics to the races that boats that ran their engines were in. They might not have a semi truck of parts, etc but I thought they were at least there to provide some help.

They were there when Rique Ford ran them in the Ragamuffin boat at every race except for a couple of the divisonal Cali races!!!!

[Ryan Beckley]

Didn't Rique run TEAGUE motors in his boats? Doesn't matter really, D'annabelle builds a great motor and you pay for it.


KS&W, Sterling, UNITED, HAWK, Turbo Craft, TEAGUE, INNOVATION, C&G COBRA, PFAFF, BAKER, Troy Dennis, Joey Griffin have all had there time in the lime light, Mercury Racing is one of the few that have stood through all of this....for all of our sake I hope they can weather this storm. NO ONE has EVER come close to the amount of race site support that Mercury has GIVEN AWAY in MY TIME involve with this sport since the mid 80's. People can whine and complain about there prices but IMO Mercury Racing has given more back to racing than ALL of the others combined in the last 20+ years. ........bash away.....

[T2x]

KS&W, Sterling, UNITED, HAWK, Turbo Craft, TEAGUE, INNOVATION, C&G COBRA, PFAFF, BAKER, Troy Dennis, Joey Griffin have all had there time in the lime light, Mercury Racing is one of the few that have stood through all of this....for all of our sake I hope they can weather this storm. NO ONE has EVER come close to the amount of race site support that Mercury has GIVEN AWAY in MY TIME involve with this sport since the mid 80's. People can whine and complain about there prices but IMO Mercury Racing has given more back to racing than ALL of the others combined in the last 20+ years. ........bash away.....

They'll have to bash both of us, Ryan.

In addition to your comments above, who else showed up for both stern drives and outboard support?

No knock on the others, but Mercury was an iconic staple and in truth probably the foundation around which the whole sport was built. You can point to Aronow's hulls if you like, but for my money, Carl Kiekhaefer's investment in engineering, his racing fleet and customized hardware put this sport into the big time.

My earlier comment was aimed at those who chafed under, and complained about, Mercury's dominance. Now we'll see who, if anyone, can or will begin to fill the gap.

Admittedly, I "bleed Mercury Black" and the company has been my touchpoint in racing for 50 years, so my memory is longer than some others.

They will be missed.

T2x

[Geronimo36]

No doubt Ryan, no bashing required. Mercury has done a whole helluva lot over the years! They lead the way for everyone else to follow! For me they're the ying and the yang though... I love em and hate em and the same time which is the best thing about this country we live in...we have that right.. ;)

Unfortunately, the customers with pleasure boats/engines/drives etc. and anything else that "Brunswick" offers keeps the skids greased and those sales are way down...

Bottom line, this economy sucks and everyone is feeling the brunt of it in one way or another. I just hope we can get to a place of stability... I saw some positive signs in the market place at the end of the quarter so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[ILMORdude]

I agree 100% that Mercury has kept the sport going with the tremendous support. Hopefully, they, along with everyone else impacted by the econ, can get back to their old ways. And maybe we can join in the fun in the years to come.

[Ratickle]

Slightly off topic. Nice article on Illmor drives in my new Powerboat. Congrats..

[ILMORdude]

Slightly off topic. Nice article on Illmor drives in my new Powerboat. Congrats..

Damn, havent got it at the shop yet. Good photos? And only one L rat::)

[Ratickle]

I think decent photos, a little blip on the cover promoting the article. Pages 26 and 27. Article could have gone into the engines more, mentioned how speculation was a 1000 HP supercharged was being kicked around by the public. And Ilmor, one l... Sorry...


It looks real nice by the way. It doesn't mention if there are spaces for different lengths available that I see.

[TCEd]

Was there ever a time when G.M. funded/supported Mercury Racing ?
ed

[T2x]

Was there ever a time when G.M. funded/supported Mercury Racing ?
ed

There have been joint projects with auto manufacturers over the years including Mercury manufacturing some Corvette engines on a sub contractor basis, and Bob Kaiser's Mercruiser/McLaren project, etc. For the most part GM has been a major vendor in supplying blocks for the Mercruiser line. I may be wrong but I don't recall any subsidization from GM or any of the auto industry.

In fact GM stepped in and competed with Mercury during the last few years of Michael Allweiss's reign as the APBA Offshore chairman. That made it very clear that GM had no loyalty to Mercury and also made it very clear that GM did not have a marine drive. A bunch of racers proudly took GM engines and "showed up" Mercury.....all the while using M/C Bravos and props in the process....?????

You can't make this stuff up.

T2x

[Knot 4 Me]

There have been joint projects with auto manufacturers over the years including Mercury manufacturing some Corvette engines on a sub contractor basis, and Bob Kaiser's Mercruiser/McLaren project, etc.
T2xYup, in the early 90's I almost bought a ZR1 Corvette and that motor was built by Mercury Marine in Stillwater.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

A bunch of racers proudly took GM engines and "showed up" Mercury.....all the while using M/C Bravos and props in the process....?????

You can't make this stuff up.

T2x

Lets not forget to mention the rpm advantage given to the GM vortec.

[Uncle Dave]

Since this thread is about offshore racing, I would ask what commitment?

There isn't even a US team that runs their products here.

Actually the title thread is Mercury pulls the plug.

What commitment? - Please

Several lines of engines all upgraded this year-
A brand new drive to compete with the 6 -

Thats not a commitment ? No they arent handing out money and engines but neither is mercury at the moment.

Who else is developing performance engines and drives for our market?

Ive love/d my Merc products, and Im not bashing them, but for the first time in a long time we have a real choice.



Uncle Dave

[Top Banana]

Not sure How this was to be taken, but I know the teams from OSS all appreciated what Mercury Racing, the support truck and the skilled techs they brought to the race sites did.

Look at last years Miami to Bimini run, 2nd , 3rd and 4th Overall were STOCK
525's/#6 boats. The I build a better motor is very overplayed, with the Miami-bimini race right around the corner, its a chance to prove something!!!

Mercury Power and Skater did very well!!

Pete....just a small clarification here and you can ask the racers involved.....the Merc motors on some of the top boats went into this automatic shutdown that saves them from destroying themselves.....it was very frustrating for the guys it happened to.

The water was flat calm, certainly not real ocean racing conditions....I was in a 23 foot boat and didn't pull the prop 6 times. So why did these motors shut down on a run on the lake?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I don't know what your problem was and I am sure it was frustrating , but lets be real. Would you rather have it slow down or blow up? Whether it is calm or not has nothing to do with what problem you might have had. I suppose it didn't blow up.

All in all they last a long time.

Limp home or spend 10's of thousands of dollars?

[Rik]

Actually the title thread is Mercury pulls the plug.

What commitment? - Please

Who else is developing performance engines and drives for our market?


Uncle Dave

I am. Sorry you have not noticed.:seeya:

[Steve Miklos]

Lets not forget to mention the rpm advantage given to the GM vortec.

You guys so dont get it. There are reason's Offshore is where it is. As far as the rev's we covered that more then once but hey there is a reason your on the beach, enjoy it!
Steve

[Uncle Dave]

I am. Sorry you have not noticed.:seeya:

My bad - Rik.

I stand corrected!

(glad you know Im a fan from other posts)

Cant forget THE most efficient drive- Arneson.



Uncle Dave

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You guys so dont get it. There are reason's Offshore is where it is. As far as the rev's we covered that more then once but hey there is a reason your on the beach, enjoy it!
Steve

I don't know what you mean On the beach? We are racing. Its you on the beach.

Fluid Sealing Products , Bob raced his Vortec in Biloxi. Will yours keep up with his? He has some speed record listed on his boat.

[2112]

Actually the title thread is Mercury pulls the plug.

What commitment? - Please

Several lines of engines all upgraded this year-
A brand new drive to compete with the 6 -


Uncle Dave

really, the #6?

I thought it was a competitor for the NXT

[MarylandMark]

NxT rated for 700HP/800TQ- new drive rated for 1000HP which is 6 territory

[Uncle Dave]

really, the #6?

I thought it was a competitor for the NXT

Stronger than an NXT probably not as strong as a 6.
Much lower parasitic loss than either.

Bill At Xpower said it takes 90+ HP to turn a 6 @ 5700RPM.

Of course an ASD probably has even less.

Maybe the price on the 6 will drop now?



Uncle Dave

[2112]

Stronger than an NXT probably not as strong as a 6.
Much lower parasitic loss than either.

Bill At Xpower said it takes 90+ HP to turn a 6 @ 5700RPM.

Of course an ASD probably has even less.

Maybe the price on the 6 will drop now?



Uncle Dave

I thought you were talking of the new Ilmor drive.

What the heck is up with the x-drive anyway? He needs to get those to market and get them priced right.:leaving:

[Uncle Dave]

I thought you were talking of the new Ilmor drive.

What the heck is up with the x-drive anyway? He needs to get those to market and get them priced right.:leaving:

I was talking about the ilmor drive- it is also shiftable by wire and mechanically.

I quoted bill because he paid to dyno all the drives on the market and I believe his info on the 6 to be accurate.

Bill says he has 75 of them in a wearhouse and they are absolutely available. Bill also said due to tooling and mfg costs they cost him 85K a piece to build so at 35K he's upside down big time in each one. Its even less parasitic than the ilmor. (according to bill)


Uncle Dave

[2112]

Bill says he has 75 of them in a wearhouse and they are absolutely available. Bill also said due to tooling and mfg costs they cost him 85K a piece to build so at 35K he's upside down big time in each one. (according to bill)

Uncle Dave

Well, I would guess he is including the development costs which isn't exactly the same as each unit costing 85K.

Regardless, if he wants to recoup his outlay, he needs to get the units out there. I mentioned this to one of his "dealers" last week and their answer was " The X-power guy who knows, I think he has product ready but he did not seem as if he was ready. " (direct quote).

[Geronimo36]

To reivew;
The rumor was confirmed and Mercury pulled the plug but the prop continues to turn! ;)

[Rik]

To reivew;
The rumor was confirmed and Mercury pulled the plug but the prop continues to turn! ;)

Fortunately, the world goes on with or without Mercury. They say when Mercury hurts everyone hurts but Mercury has a lot larger head to have a head ache in than others. :sifone: