What happened???

[Top Banana]

I came back to Florida for the weekend after enjoying a great time last weekend at the Ft Myers poker run. This weekend I had to be in the Sarasota area and thought I would run over and see the boats pull in for the lunch stop.

What happened?? I heard there were 73 boats registered and 50 boats left to take the start.......BUT only about 7 or 8 boats made it to Sarasota. When I started asking people about it, I got very reserved answers. No one wanted to diss anyone else, so the comments were low key.

Let me state that the winds were blowing very high today and the water was really whippped up. Someone said that they saw a big cat go straight up and then land right side up, by the Skyway bridge and then turn back.

These boats are designed to run in big water....safely... What is going on when the majority of the very best boats made on the market today, turn around when the water is kicked up big?

Do we have a lack of seamanship out there.?...if so, then some very smart people made the right decision and turned around. But if they are treating their boats like jewelry and don't want to get them wet, we are on the wrong track with our sport.

Don't mean to drag up the past, but I can remember when guys like Brownie would deliver new 16 foot Donzis to Nassau in the Bahamas on their own bottoms, with just a compass.

Some boats that had no problem at all today, was the Pier 57 Fountain, the new Corvette theme MTI, a couple of Nor-Tech Cats and deep V and a beautiful Skater.

But I was most impressed with the new 43 foot deep V Statement boat, that not only had no problem with the weather, they were taking out prospective buyers for rides to show them their boat could handle this kind of weather with no problem. Good for you guys.

[Perlmudder]

hmm

[Bgchuby01]

charllie now a days if the chartplotter does not work alot of people from this site and others are afraid to go out of sight of land. I agree that unless its a hurricane out there than these boats can take most of the water. Hell just ask some of the miami cubans that came over from cuba with a raft. I love to drive out of government cut and watch these same people take a small boston whaler outside the cut not worrying about the size of the water

[mosi]

Remember...there are pros and cons to who should be brave in a boat....
.
.
...... http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5416


.

[stainless]

Takes a little more skill to run in the rough stuff!

[Slandrew]

When it kicks up boats under 30' have no choice but to turn back.

[Wobble]

I have ridden out 7-10' seas or bigger on a variety of boats, everyone involved would rather not do it again, there was always some kind of damage to the cabin or to one of the passengers. There is always the knowledge that any kind of mechanical failures could be extremely serious

Pleasure boating isn't pleasurable in those conditions. Maybe me and one other person for an hour in the rough stuff but that's my limit for fun.

[Pachanga]

Geeze louise! WTF is your problem! I would turn my boat around even if it was a 60 footer+! They were out there to have fun....not to impress you!

[phragle]

they used to run boats in big water back in the old days..when men were men, and manatees were lunch

[Team Tsunami]

Thats like when we first had the Mohegan Sun/Tri State poker run up here. People turned away cause there was leg in the ocean!! We run to Block Island and everyone was asking...."thats in the ocean right?" Yea it is!! Thats what these boats are made for...ocean running!!

[Bobcat]

whoa! everyone take a deep breath, lets let some of the people who were on the run chime in, it has been blowin 15-20 for the last month and a half in florida, (which is abnormal)

[phragle]

I have a friend in lauderdale who regularly runs to bimini in a 17' center cc... but then again we nicknamed him andy-bouy, because he fell off a boat in lake erie and swam for 6 hours before anyone found him...

[cigdaze]

It was blowing like a motherfvcker today...25-30 knots, 7 - 9 footers in the gulf, wash-machine sht in the bay. It takes a special breed to go out in a day like this. Respectfully, It was one of those days that most would have decided to stay at the dock. There were some boats that I saw heading out today that probably should not have. Take it for what it's worth.

It's about having fun. When it comes to putting your gear and/or one's self is at risk, sometimes the best call is to err on the side of conservatism, thus leaving yourself an opportunity to have fun another time.

[Ratickle]

some very smart people made the right decision and turned around. But if they are treating their boats like jewelry and don't want to get them wet, we are on the wrong track with our sport..

If my wife and friends are with me, we would make different choices than if you and I were out there. It's a Poker Run for fun and a good time. For some reason, my idea of a good time is a little different than my friends wives.:)


guys like Brownie would deliver new 16 foot Donzis to Nassau in the Bahamas on their own bottoms, with just a compass..

Even I don't have ones the size of his......:sifone:


Some boats that had no problem at all today, was the Pier 57 Fountain, the new Corvette theme MTI, a couple of Nor-Tech Cats and deep V and a beautiful Skater.

But I was most impressed with the new 43 foot deep V Statement boat, that not only had no problem with the weather, they were taking out prospective buyers for rides to show them their boat could handle this kind of weather with no problem. Good for you guys.

Nice....


All that being said, if I am not familiar with the water in that area, and have no one experienced with what the conditions can do to follow, I err on the side of caution. It is a Poker Run for fun and getting together.

Now, if I had the $, I'd sponser you, Brownie, and T2X to attend every Poker Run and put cameras all over the boat just in case those kind of conditions came up...:sifone:

Oh and I'd want to ride along.....:)

[Jassman]

It was blowing like a motherfvcker today...25-30 knots, 7 - 9 footers in the gulf, wash-machine sht in the bay. It takes a special breed to go out in a day like this. Respectfully, It was one of those days that most would have decided to stay at the dock. There were some boats that I saw heading out today that probably should not have. Take it for what it's worth.

It's about having fun. When it comes putting your gear and/or one's self is at risk, sometimes the best call is to err on the conservative side, thus leaving yourself an opportunity to have fun another time.


Well put..safety first..the weather everywhere on the gulf coast has been off..Even at the Biloxi races it sucks..I feel bad for the guys as well as the spectators..

[Chris]

But if they are treating their boats like jewelry and don't want to get them wet, we are on the wrong track with our sport.



They are jewelry.

In all fairness, these aren't offshore competitors- they're pleasure boaters. The large percentage of poker runners want to go for a blast, tie up in a resort, spend a few days enjoying themselves, their friends or their wives, have some good meals and head home. And most don't want to separate a stringer or break a drive in the process. Nothing wrong with people doing what they want to do. Personally it makes me crazy seeing all that hardware tied to docks. If it's even near the water, I want to be in it and running it.

The real question is "why DON'T they want to be out racing?" And we've been over that one a dozen times.

Another on that's got me- why are they handing out trophies at poker runs?

[Ratickle]

Another on that's got me- why are they handing out trophies at poker runs?


To encourage participation by having a chance to win something besides the poker pot.?.

[mosi]

To encourage participation by having a chance to win something besides the poker pot.?.



....and when something goes wrong in a Poker Run.......Good Luck trying to convince a Court and an Insurance Company that a Poker Run is only a friendly get together and not a RACE!!!

Remember, most Insurance Policies exclude racing.

.

[OldSchool]

They are jewelry.

In all fairness, these aren't offshore competitors- they're pleasure boaters. The large percentage of poker runners want to go for a blast, tie up in a resort, spend a few days enjoying themselves, their friends or their wives, have some good meals and head home. And most don't want to separate a stringer or break a drive in the process. Nothing wrong with people doing what they want to do. Personally it makes me crazy seeing all that hardware tied to docks. If it's even near the water, I want to be in it and running it.

The real question is "why DON'T they want to be out racing?" And we've been over that one a dozen times.

Another on that's got me- why are they handing out trophies at poker runs?


Well put Chris. I've got 26 years of experience as a boat owner and am plenty capable. I've got nothing to prove to anyone. Getting the chit beat out of myself, my passengers and my boat isn't high up on my "things that I have to do before I die" list. There's always another day!!

Craig :)

[ProMod]

I know for us running the Chesapeake we don,t consider our rigs jewelry but we do consider ourselves and passengers priceless.
Our pack generaly cruises in the 95 to 105mph range and in rough water that needs to move towards the 110 + or higher range to stay on top so not to launch bow high as much between swells.
My boat will handle way more than my passengers will and other than me on throttles and my driver anticipating launch's and landings ,its way tougher on the passengers as they are beat up real quick.,.Their are windy days that even with just the few boys that never blink over 150 mph we will call it a day quickly after the first few body slams.
For some of us it's about having fun in the sun, not being stressed out while running on the edge.
That may be the reason for the lower turn out, to rough for most!

[Magic Medicine]

Well put Chris. I've got 26 years of experience as a boat owner and am plenty capable. I've got nothing to prove to anyone. Getting the chit beat out of myself, my passengers and my boat isn't high up on my "things that I have to do before I die" list. There's always another day!!

Craig :)

I feelt the same way. Poker runs are great but I would rather spend the day on the water with family and friends. Go for a cruise to the beach or lunch etc. No reason to abuse or equipment

[Bobcat]

and don't forget that this forum is called "on the dock":leaving:

[scottc]

It takes a bigger man to know his limits and stop, than an idiot that is willing to risk it all out of stupidity.

[cuda]

I've run that same poker run in a 302 Formula. Once, it was a bit rough, I saw a 50 foot Nortech take the ICW, instead of taking the outside. We didn't run extra hard, but nobody was hurt, and nothing broke. By the same token, coming back from that poker run, I was running beside a 38 cig, and sometimes I couldn't see it over the waves. And that was in Tampa Bay. I've been boating that bay, and surrounding water many, many, years, and the most concerned I've ever been was right under the Sunshine Skyway. I was worried about getting broached when I turned around. That was rough! Crossing Egmont Channel in my fishboat, I put on my lifejacket in my fishboat.

[Buoy]

I'm seeing both sides of this.
Charlie has it that this is the kind of water these boats were built for, when better to use them than when it kicks up a bit? that's when it gets fun.

But, the guys that turned back, I understand. You can't afford to go out there and risk busting up the equipment.
It was mentioned that there were boats for sale taking potential customers out there.
How would you feel about buying a Demo boat that you knew had been run hard in a Poker Run in less than ideal conditions?
I wouldn't want a boat that needed repairs while out demo-ing. And lets face it, if you're really gonna hang it out there, you should be on the race circuit, not Poker Running.

Safety is always a concern.

[Chris]

Don't get me wrong, I love the race competition and always have. But it's not for everybody. I also think it's great that people do the poker run thing too. Everyone should do exactly what makes them feel good.

I raced cars in my much younger days. I never could understand the car show guys. I was out prepping working and tuning, then breaking something and winching onto the trailer. They were polishing and starting up long enough to get into their spot, setting up the velvet ropes and dragging out the 11 cases of beer and settling in to their lounge chair. I had almost as much in my motor as they had in paint and chrome. Same sort of hardware, two different groups using them two completely different ways. And in the end, everyone enjoying themselves.

Another extension of the car analogy- I live in the suburbs. We have TONS of kids with expensive hot-rodded ( I believe the new term is "tuner") cars. Not a single one of them are ever at the track. And it's been that way since I was a kid in the 70's. It's easier to look and act racy than it is to race. And one last thought- I was hospitalized twice by guys who were breaking in to the sport and were in way over their heads. I don't know that the sport really needs a major influx of inexperienced, incapable new racers.

Why don't we talk about this- how do you attract new blood into the racing side of the sport?

[mosi]

Why don't we talk about this- how do you attract new blood into the racing side of the sport?



Get the stock market to go UP as fast as it went DOWN.

That should free up some dollars to throw away......errrr..... I mean....to invest in racing!!!

:leaving:

[rbhudelson]

Hmm, so if I follow the logic of these boats are made for the big water does that mean I can write a check for an Indy car and safely make 250 mph laps?

I suspect those piloting have more than just a little to do with it.

I applaud those that chose to stay at the dock!

[mosi]

Hmm, so if I follow the logic of these boats are made for the big water does that mean I can write a check for an Indy car and safely make 250 mph laps?

I suspect those piloting have more than just a little to do with it.

I applaud those that chose to stay at the dock!





You forgot.......make 250 mph laps "on the local Interstate":rofl:

:leaving:

[glh]

It takes a bigger man to know his limits and stop, than an idiot that is willing to risk it all out of stupidity.It doesn't take much to be a risk taker behind a keyboard or at the end of the bar while not owning a rig you pay the bills on....

[Ted]

I suspect more than a few of those registered were absolutely dying to get out there and thrash a little. But if it was a poker run that means wives, kids, etc. were probably also on the boats. And as most of us know, very few women will just sit down, shut up, and hold on. And running even the largest best set up boats in the rough is fairly dangerous for anyone not well held in by a bolster, so that means you might have 4 people bouncing around basically unprotected, holding on for dear life. Good for them for being safe and thinking of their passengers.

And as an aside, I know of more than a few people in the business who have hurt and/or scared the crap out of people because their tolerance and confidence in their abilities was much higher than their passengers/potential customers. Jus' sayin' :)

[OldSchool]

I just keep thinking about being in the backseat of a certain boat that I know....

:ack2::rofl::ack2::rofl:


....I'm going to walk down and polish my boat now.:sifone:

[ApachePete]

Having both raced and done poker runs, I think those who turned back did the right thing.

These are not race boats. No helmets. No Lifeline jackets. Passengers with precarious seats in many cases. Fancy interiors.

Why endanger your passengers, and beat up your boat?

I live on Siesta Key, about 7 miles south of the lunch stop on Sarasota Bay. We planned to got up there by boat and watch them depart after lunch. Four of us left my house in a 24' Pursuit cc at about noon. By the time we got out of the lee of the key, we got absolutely POUNDED by crazy seas and strong winds. Water over the bow. Water over the side. Everyone completely soaked. We were perhaps 1 mile from the dock, not even to the Rringling bridge, going with the wind and waves, and there was absolutely no question that the only reasonable thing to do was turn around and go home . . . barely on plane, with walls of water coming aboard.

Had we been in a 41 Apache race boat, we would have been in heaven! It would have been the perfect conditions for having a blast. :drool5:

But not in a 24' pleasure boat. I'm sure that many of the boats that turned back in St Pete could have made the run, but at what cost? And why?

PS I wish I had known that a few boats made it to Sarasota, because I'd love to get a ride on the new 43 Statement V. Perfect boat for the conditions.

Pictures?

[ProMod]

While reading this thread I cant help but think of us running the race coarse following the 04 or 05 Oct Deerfield race in very rough water .
We took a couple out on my Topgun and compared to the Chesapeake the waves were so large that we coulnt see other boats while leaving the inlet.
Finally on top, the poor women passenger holding Starboard rear bolster fell to to floor and could not get back up to hold her bolster we had to run b to the wall or stop and get tossed around which we eventually did..
It can be extra hard on the passengers she was bruised from head to toe,we where very very lucky that know one was badly hurt I learned a lot that day!

[DaveP]

I have ridden out 7-10' seas or bigger on a variety of boats, everyone involved would rather not do it again, there was always some kind of damage to the cabin or to one of the passengers. There is always the knowledge that any kind of mechanical failures could be extremely serious

Pleasure boating isn't pleasurable in those conditions. Maybe me and one other person for an hour in the rough stuff but that's my limit for fun.


DITTO - could not have said it better myself

[cuda]

There is a big diffence running in 7 foot seas in deep water, than the 7's in the gulf where there no space in between them. Here on the Atlantic side of Floida, it's not like the stiff chop of the gulf.
I would have never left the dock yesterday.

[Buoy]

There is a big diffence running in 7 foot seas in deep water, than the 7's in the gulf where there no space in between them. Here on the Atlantic side of Floida, it's not like the stiff chop of the gulf.
I would have never left the dock yesterday.

I think it was 3 yrs ago that I ran in the Gulf with Ratman in his Mistress in 5-7's. We had a blast!!!
But, I have to admit, I was glad to head back inside and stop at Gators for a beer.
The whole run, I was looking back making sure my wife was still in the boat.
I think he was just testing me to see if I had the stones to take it.

[Cash Bar]

While reading this thread I cant help but think of us running the race coarse following the 04 or 05 Oct Deerfield race in very rough water .


That would've been '04. That race was on my Mom's Birthday. We were racing the only OPEN boat in SS class. We could never move up during the race because we spent half our energy and concentration trying to stay IN the boat. :ack2:

My parents watched from the end of the pier and my dad said you could acually see us bouncing in the boat. My mom watched through her fingers with her hands over her face.

It was rough to lie and say I had fun. :leaving:

[ApachePete]

Did the boats that made it to the lunch stop go outside in the Gulf, or inside in the ICW? Of course, even to run inside requires that you first cross Tampa Bay, which was a mess yesterday.

[Scarab KV]

It doesn't take much to be a risk taker behind a keyboard or at the end of the bar while not owning a rig you pay the bills on....

Well put GL

[JayFan]

Why would you want to risk breaking something in those bad conditions....just to boost your ego????? This chit is too damn expensive to break it just for the hell of it. Just my 2 cents.

[JupiterSunsation]

I came back to Florida for the weekend after enjoying a great time last weekend at the Ft Myers poker run. This weekend I had to be in the Sarasota area and thought I would run over and see the boats pull in for the lunch stop.

What happened?? I heard there were 73 boats registered and 50 boats left to take the start.......BUT only about 7 or 8 boats made it to Sarasota. When I started asking people about it, I got very reserved answers. No one wanted to diss anyone else, so the comments were low key.

Let me state that the winds were blowing very high today and the water was really whippped up. Someone said that they saw a big cat go straight up and then land right side up, by the Skyway bridge and then turn back.

These boats are designed to run in big water....safely... What is going on when the majority of the very best boats made on the market today, turn around when the water is kicked up big?

Do we have a lack of seamanship out there.?...if so, then some very smart people made the right decision and turned around. But if they are treating their boats like jewelry and don't want to get them wet, we are on the wrong track with our sport.

Don't mean to drag up the past, but I can remember when guys like Brownie would deliver new 16 foot Donzis to Nassau in the Bahamas on their own bottoms, with just a compass.

Some boats that had no problem at all today, was the Pier 57 Fountain, the new Corvette theme MTI, a couple of Nor-Tech Cats and deep V and a beautiful Skater.

But I was most impressed with the new 43 foot deep V Statement boat, that not only had no problem with the weather, they were taking out prospective buyers for rides to show them their boat could handle this kind of weather with no problem. Good for you guys.

A. This wasn't a race or business run with a load of contraband
B. The Vinoy is a really nice luxury hotel to be stranded at
C. To bad you weren't armed with a Banana Boat to go out and crush the waves yourself today. I suspect you would not have started this post....

[Ratickle]

Why don't we talk about this- how do you attract new blood into the racing side of the sport?

Most of you know, I am looking at getting back into racing. Haven't raced boats since kneebangers out west.

Right now, SVL seems to be the closest thing to what makes sense to me, but it is only legal for one association unless it's put in a timed class. I am really not into that. Probably will still do it, just not jumping in at this time.

The same thing happened with Drag Racing. Had a nice car and then it was illegal except for brackets. Didn't go over well with me.

For me, the perfect class....

Boat big enough for a backseat (take friends out when not racing)
Single engine, (less to break)
Canopy thats removeable (use for goofing off, see #1)-Safer when racing (wife wants to throttle)
Engine restriction cubic inches, carb or injector size, compression - that's it
Drive restriction, none
Prop restriction, you guys would have to tell me. Kinda like restrictor plates based on drive ratio.

Anything else, ?

Could also have a similar twin engine class.

Now, don't kill me. I'm still lookin at SVL's and am wondering if a removeable canopy would be legal.

[Top Banana]

Well it has been quite a 24 hours since my first post. Obviously some feelings have been hurt and for that I apologize. My intent was to put the focus on the boats, not the egos.

When this great sport first began, it was a wonderful place for boat manufacturers to show to the world that the product they made could handle open ocean crossings. The winners were rewarded with sales and the losers were allowed to go back and try it again at the next contest.

The boats that are made today are even better than the old ones. My question is why don't the owners (in general...no one in particlar was singled out) feel comfortable runnng them in tough conditions.

From the 50 boats that started, take out the boats with wives, girl friends and kids , and the boats that have owners with no experience in these conditions, there still had to be 10 or 15 boats with crews with experience.

The conditons were tough, but these boats would have given a lot of fun at reduced, SAFE speeds with plenty of jumping. These boats when they are run correctly do not get torn up or damaged as someone suggested earlier. That is a lesson learned from racing...you can't win if you don't finish.

This post was just a personal observation. I was surprised and thought I would post it here for comments.

And for Jupiter Sunsation.....I know what I have done in the offshore world....who are you again??

[Ratickle]

Hey Charlie, can't wait to see your new big guy at one with some tough conditions. Glad you went with Peter and are getting into it.

[Tom A.]

Ok guys,
I was there. I was boatless but working with someone who has been doing this for over a decade. The wind was blowing non stop from Thursday night on. 25-30 knots out of the SW. It barely slowed up Friday night. Tampa Bay had 6 foot rollers with a washing machine 2 foot chop on top all the way back at the Vinoy harbor. By the time the boats got to the intercoastal they were 7-8' rollers. Most boats did turn around and like others said, it was not a race and these are pleasure boats. If it is not pleasurable or safe, why beat up the crew and boat. I was happy my boat didn't make the trip, it made my decision easy.

[Chris]

I thought it was a great discussion-starter.

Here's one- How does a guy get started in racing these days? To most people on the outside, it looks like you have to buy a purpose-built boat and drop $300 grand to get in.

Who in the industry is doing anything to attract new racers? The manufacturers? The organizations? The boating media? Not that I can tell.

Maybe the best thing to come along was what Chris Reindl was doing with the batboats. Get out on the course for a few $$, see if you like it. No obligation- you rent the ride and walk away when you hit the docks. But it was never embraced. Could you imagine if a program like this was brought to one of the resorts where a major poker run was going on? Three or four boats taking guys out for a 3-lap "experience"? How many new racers do you think you'd find? Blowing along at 100+ in a 40' cat may seem like a rush, but bumping rubrails in a canopy boat at 65 is a whole different deal.

[Ratickle]

I thought it was a great discussion-starter.

Here's one- How does a guy get started in racing these days? To most people on the outside, it looks like you have to buy a purpose-built boat and drop $300 grand to get in.

Whi o in the iddustry is doing anything to attract new racers? The manufacturers? The organizations? The boating media? Not that I can tell.

Maybe the best thing to come along was what Chris Reindl was doing with the batboats. Get out on the course for a few $$, see if you like it. No obligation- you rent the ride and walk away when you hit the docks. But it was never embraced. Could you imagine if a program like this was brought to one of the resorts where a major poker run was going on? Three or four boats taking guys out for a 3-lap "experience"? How many new racers do you think you'd find? Blowing along at 100= in a 40' cat may seem like a rush, but bumping rubrails in a canopy boat at 65 is a whole different deal.

If the 28 Batboat was legal with a canopy, well...........

[JJ Apache]

Knees and hips are harder to replace...............

[stainless]

Most of you know, I am looking at getting back into racing. Haven't raced boats since kneebangers out west.

Right now, SVL seems to be the closest thing to what makes sense to me, but it is only legal for one association unless it's put in a timed class. I am really not into that. Probably will still do it, just not jumping in at this time.

The same thing happened with Drag Racing. Had a nice car and then it was illegal except for brackets. Didn't go over well with me.

For me, the perfect class....

Boat big enough for a backseat (take friends out when not racing)
Single engine, (less to break)
Canopy thats removeable (use for goofing off, see #1)-Safer when racing (wife wants to throttle)
Engine restriction cubic inches, carb or injector size, compression - that's it
Drive restriction, none
Prop restriction, you guys would have to tell me. Kinda like restrictor plates based on drive ratio.

Anything else, ?

Could also have a similar twin engine class.

Now, don't kill me. I'm still lookin at SVL's and am wondering if a removeable canopy would be legal.

cat outboard is a great class with great bang for the buck factor. can get a canopied 4 seater that can double as a poker run boat for under 200k new and i've seen some real nice used ones for under 100k

[PARADOX]

Hey Charlie, can't wait to see your new big guy at one with some tough conditions. Glad you went with Peter and are getting into it.

It's in the works Rat. :)

But here's my take on all this.
First of all, Safety is first, period.
It's not a race.. it's an event.. How often we hear this and yet,, people with deep pockets totaly ignore the "event theme".
No one in particular, however. some,, and I do mean "some" show up to these events with the big guns. Fine.. But now they got their entourage, mechanics, drivers and delivery boys with the quarter mill trucks and “some” couldn’t change a propeller. It’s great to “show off” the toys, but when you got some “corporate” claim of the boats capabilities, and they want to market their product, then let them run. Some drivers are great and there are some who has no clue what’s offshore driving and participating in a group event is all about. Yet, their there and showboating. Again no one in particular, but I been there and I seen it. Now we got some seas....
In all reality it should be up to the organizing staff to make a decision when it’s “Safe to run in a nonsenctioned event”. Lot of these guys wants to “race” or hit it a little, and that’s great at the right place, right time and right circumstance.
But here’s the thing. Some one spends mucho $’s and wants to “out do” anyone else, then fine. Get into racing. Now... if you lack the confidence in your equipment or your driving ability, then quit bragging about what the rig and “you” can do...
Lot of attendees leaves the “girls” on the dock. Not a bad decision, knowing that conditions can change, and if you want to run, your crew has to handle the ride.
But all the “show” boating has no place in a friendly event where the theme is to meet and greet, have a great boating day and perhaps show or market a new product. Poker Runs are great place to show boats, but in short… if you can’t stand the heat,, stay out of the kitchen. You worry about the flat screen TV? Don’t put one in.
All that being said.. I condone the smart and safe decisions on every ones part, staying, or turning around, and congrats to the “ballzy” guys who takes the performance boating seriously and knowing the rigs and drivers limitations and still pushing the envelope.
Many of these boats are designed and made to run hard. But deep pockets and an ego won’t get you to the lunch spot. It takes experience in chit waters and also common and humble sense to know when enough is enough, and waves are too big for the “fun of it”.
My passenger’s safety is the outmost priority. If I want to go nuts, I do it alone or with some one who’s just as nutty as I am.
For me.. if I can’t light my cigarette in the wind,, it’s to windy for a fun run. :rofl:
I never smoked when I was racing.

[Dreamer]

BPPR -chuckbeacher

[Sean Stinson]

When it kicks up boats under 30' have no choice but to turn back.


I ran a 30 Phantom in Big Water under the Golden Gate bridge have the photos, shirts, checkered flag, and dirty underwear to prove it!!!!!:sifone::sifone::sifone:

[Ratickle]

I ran a 30 Phantom in Big Water under the Golden Gate bridge have the photos, shirts, checkered flag, and dirty underwear to prove it!!!!!:sifone::sifone::sifone:

Emphasis on dirty underwear?:sifone:


I've been stuck coming back from Grand Haven in the 24 when the water kicked up into 8 to 10's with the wife and the dog. I had a blast, they didn't. Had to slow down.

In the Scorpion or BT, no big deal. Wouldn't do it if I had a choice, and there was a nice bar, though....:sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

They are jewelry.

In all fairness, these aren't offshore competitors- they're pleasure boaters. The large percentage of poker runners want to go for a blast, tie up in a resort, spend a few days enjoying themselves, their friends or their wives, have some good meals and head home. And most don't want to separate a stringer or break a drive in the process. Nothing wrong with people doing what they want to do. Personally it makes me crazy seeing all that hardware tied to docks. If it's even near the water, I want to be in it and running it.

The real question is "why DON'T they want to be out racing?" And we've been over that one a dozen times.

Another on that's got me- why are they handing out trophies at poker runs?


I thought they were supposed to hand out checks to the winner after all it is a "Poker Run"!!!!

I had a conversation once upon a time with a good friend who had went out boating in like conditions with 3 reputable manufacturers boats involved we were all supposed to meet at the end of the run at a local cocktail establishment (imagine that) and converse about what else.....boats and women!!!! To make a long story short the conversation at the marina the next day was.....What happened to you guys......Well we had to put our cabin back together.....the other broke a bolster loose and the third cruised comfortably back to the cocktail establishment!!!11

points if anyone can name the 3 boats involved...:26::26::boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley::boxing_smi ley:

[Sean Stinson]

Emphasis on dirty underwear?:sifone:


I've been stuck coming back from Grand Haven in the 24 when the water kicked up into 8 to 10's with the wife and the dog. I had a blast, they didn't. Had to slow down.

In the Scorpion or BT, no big deal. Wouldn't do it if I had a choice, and there was a nice bar, though....:sifone:

If you have ever been under the Golden Gate in big water you will understand the dirty underwear!!!!:sifone::sifone::sifone:

[Ratickle]

11 points if anyone can name the 3 boats involved:

Troublemaker:26::sifone::26:

[Ratickle]

If you have ever been under the Golden Gate in big water you will understand the dirty underwear!!!!:sifone::sifone::sifone:

Not in a performance boat, just fishing.

The whirlpools are kinda cool.


Deception Pass in Washington is similar at tide change.

[stainless]

I thought they were supposed to hand out checks to the winner after all it is a "Poker Run"!!!!

I had a conversation once upon a time with a good friend who had went out boating in like conditions with 3 reputable manufacturers boats involved we were all supposed to meet at the end of the run at a local cocktail establishment (imagine that) and converse about what else.....boats and women!!!! To make a long story short the conversation at the marina the next day was.....What happened to you guys......Well we had to put our cabin back together.....the other broke a bolster loose and the third cruised comfortably back to the cocktail establishment!!!11

points if anyone can name the 3 boats involved...:26::26::boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley::boxing_smi ley:

Skater , MTI, Nortech ??:sifone:

[RollWithIt]

Cigarette, Fountain and Apache!!! :)

Chris.. the dilema you are talking about has been discussed for a while. I remember talking to a few people back in the day over on OSO about what can be done to promote or grow the sport of offshore racing and attract; fans, racers, teams and sponsors. Personally, I think if we could get more media coverage of the sport, it will make the biggest difference. Its all related. You get more media coverage, maybe get more fans from exposure. The promotors and sponsors get more coverage so they are willing to throw more money in or new sponsors jump in. You get more money flowing in the sport and make it more... ahem.. profitable for the racers and teams, then you will get more involvement. Just my take on it. I can remember watching APBA races on tv years ago. I couldnt even tell you where I could catch a race on tv anymore.. When Discovery Channel did a show with AMF offshore, I thought that was great.. Love Muscle Racing did thosw promo videos.. It'd be nice to see a major media outlet pick them up for a show.. I mean, you had OCC, Billy Lane, Monter Garage, Pimp my Ride... How many show can you make without taking that step to a boat related show.

[plumbers crack]

It doesn't take much to be a risk taker behind a keyboard or at the end of the bar while not owning a rig you pay the bills on....

When a 50 foot turbine cat comes in and a 50 foot turbine v bottom comes in that should tell you something. I was there and kept my boat on the trailer friday and saturday.It was 50mph gusts at the very least.Had a great time broke nothing and will be back another day! Call me a *****,or a genius.Just do it in person.I wish I could post pics of tampa bay they are on my buddies camera.

Good judgement for those people who turned around probably saved the coast guard alot of money.:sifone:

[RollWithIt]

Locally, I have to wait for the windstorms to go out and really play. The rivers here are typically pretty flat except for jumping peoples wake.. :) but we do get occasional windstorms that drive everybody else in off the water.. Thats when you see me heading out. Keep in mind, they still dont get to 7 foot swells though. Maybe 3 or 4 footers but it is something to play with

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Ok guys,
I was there.
Tom,

Was it too big for my 13 foot Bullet ? :rofl:

Sort of reminds me of going out Barnegat Inlet during the Poker Run when a 36 Spectre and a 32 Hustler ended up turning around because it was big.

They had their reasons which is fine. Safety First!

For me, I knew what myself and the boat was capable of and had no fear.

Today I may think twice though.... :sifone: Age will do that to ya !:rofl:

Glad to hear many used their heads and did the right thing!

[PARADOX]

Off the subject a bit, but it's ok.

The curent racing circuits.. to say the least... s ux. IE.. The Air Races world wide. Great marketing. TV coverage, awsome sponsers.. etc. etc.
Todays racing "managers" are all for "self interest". Not for the love of the sport.

I would love to see a two day racing events. Day one.. the Ole' timers.. for show and for charity.. Next day.. .. serious offshore race.... with out the curent BS... part two day two.. celebrity races,, just for fun.. bring what you got.. :26:

[cuda]

Tom,


Today I may think twice though.... :sifone: Age will do that to ya !:rofl:

!

It's called feeling your own mortality.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

It's called feeling your own mortality.
:sifone:

And having a family that needs me to be around for a while ! ;)

[JupiterSunsation]

Well it has been quite a 24 hours since my first post. Obviously some feelings have been hurt and for that I apologize. My intent was to put the focus on the boats, not the egos.


This post was just a personal observation. I was surprised and thought I would post it here for comments.

And for Jupiter Sunsation.....I know what I have done in the offshore world....who are you again??

Just a pleasure boater recognizing a guy with a bruised ego.........:sifone:

[Ted]

Off the subject a bit, but it's ok.

The curent racing circuits.. to say the least... s ux. IE.. The Air Races world wide. Great marketing. TV coverage, awsome sponsers.. etc. etc.
Todays racing "managers" are all for "self interest". Not for the love of the sport.

I would love to see a two day racing events. Day one.. the Ole' timers.. for show and for charity.. Next day.. .. serious offshore race.... with out the curent BS... part two day two.. celebrity races,, just for fun.. bring what you got.. :26:

I would argue that point with you when it comes to OPA. I have never seen a group and a leader that gives more for the sport with absolutely no reward other than the respect of their fellow racers. Smitty basically does a full time job for 0 salary. And I can tell you there have been many times when he put the good of the sport or the organization ahead of his personal gain or feelings. I will not comment on the other groups because i don't know, but to see true sportsmen doing it simply for the satisfaction, come on out and see the OPA work.

[phragle]

hmmmif we combined it all...we could have " the disfunctional family pimps my boat, dockside edition"

[Audiofn]

I am sure that there are a lot of happy insurance companies today because people knew their limits. No point in bringing the sport bad press over a plastic trophy or a couple buck.

[WMF]

Just a pleasure boater recognizing a guy with a bruised ego.........:sifone:

I dont think you know who Charlie McCarthy is do you?? I am not getting into this debate about how bad the conditions were because I was not there!! or do not know what I would have done at that time!!, but MR McCarthy should be respected for what he did for the sport and High performance boating, not beat up for something he posted!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

Cigarette, Fountain and Apache!!! :)

Chris.. the dilema you are talking about has been discussed for a while. I remember talking to a few people back in the day over on OSO about what can be done to promote or grow the sport of offshore racing and attract; fans, racers, teams and sponsors. Personally, I think if we could get more media coverage of the sport, it will make the biggest difference. Its all related. You get more media coverage, maybe get more fans from exposure. The promotors and sponsors get more coverage so they are willing to throw more money in or new sponsors jump in. You get more money flowing in the sport and make it more... ahem.. profitable for the racers and teams, then you will get more involvement. Just my take on it. I can remember watching APBA races on tv years ago. I couldnt even tell you where I could catch a race on tv anymore.. When Discovery Channel did a show with AMF offshore, I thought that was great.. Love Muscle Racing did thosw promo videos.. It'd be nice to see a major media outlet pick them up for a show.. I mean, you had OCC, Billy Lane, Monter Garage, Pimp my Ride... How many show can you make without taking that step to a boat related show.

Close very close 2 out of 3 aint bad

[Sean Stinson]

The state of racing sux it is who can make the most out of more!!!!!!

[JupiterSunsation]

I dont think you know who Charlie McCarthy is do you?? I am not getting into this debate about how bad the conditions were because I was not there!! or do not know what I would have done at that time!!, but MR McCarthy should be respected for what he did for the sport and High performance boating, not beat up for something he posted!!!!

Yeah I know who he is but the statement calling out a bunch of pleasure boaters out to have fun is like Reggie claiming to have a "cat killer" to the same crowd.

Now if Charlie ran his boat yesterday to the lunch stop with the other few boats then he would be entitled to make the statement he did.

This was a pleasure boating event run by mostly amateurs not racers so that is why it is an out of place comment. Also keep in mind back when Charlie was racing boats were significantly heavier which would give a better ride and ran with much less horsepower which often broke. So a champion then was running more of an endurance race with a solid wavecrusher than a top speed event which is what a lot of poker runs turn into.

[PARADOX]

Yeah I know who he is but the statement calling out a bunch of pleasure boaters out to have fun is like Reggie claiming to have a "cat killer" to the same crowd.

Now if Charlie ran his boat yesterday to the lunch stop with the other few boats then he would be entitled to make the statement he did.

This was a pleasure boating event run by mostly amateurs not racers so that is why it is an out of place comment. Also keep in mind back when Charlie was racing boats were significantly heavier which would give a better ride and ran with much less horsepower which often broke. So a champion then was running more of an endurance race with a solid wavecrusher than a top speed event which is what a lot of poker runs turn into.

I really didn't want to get into this further BUT.


>>>" a top speed event which is what a lot of poker runs turn into." <<<
PR should not be a top speed event to begun with. Many of the boats are not pleasure boats by any means. Purchased/used for one thing in mind. Going from point "A" to point "B" in a balzz out way.
I would also concider a 50' cat or a "V" with over 2100 HP a "wave crusher".

Charlies is a die hard boater and racer. I think his point is missunderstood.
He would have like to see these boats driven and used in rough seas as they were intended and designed for. Many years of design, experimentation and race events are behind the hulls. Most of the boats at the run can handle the seas and drivers/owners of the boats should know how to drive them, safely. I think it was just a bit dissapointing to see a thoroughbred horse sitting in the barn. They need to run and it would be nice to see them run. But I am also glad that safety is a consideration. However, … Based on Charlie’s racing experience, I’m sure he felt that the boats can be run in a safely manner, (and I'm not trying to speak for him, just making a point) but if you don’t know how to drive a stick shift.. don’t by a Ferrari with a 6 speed on the floor.
The important factor is that everyone is safe and sound, and the heII with the 6 speeds and the high HP's. There will be a nother day and run.

[Twin27Advantage]

Sorry, but I just have to add to this one...I agree with top banana and paradox, alot of people show up looking like a full race team ready to do battle. Many of these boats are built to go out in the rough. Sure they don't need to try and run 150 but you can still have fun in the big water and not wreck the equipment.

Most of these boats are supposed to be rigged with the best of the best. If they can't handle running some rough water what is the point? It also does not say much for the rigger.

I agree about not beating on the equipment, but the guys that are running 150+ kinda are. Running in the ruff at 100 is easier on the motor than 150+ at high rpms.

I also agree about safety and if your family or friends were in the boat you would not want to run. But some people appear go 150+ with family or friends on board in smooth water. I don't see how that is safer.

JupiterSunsation, you said: "This was a pleasure boating event run by mostly amateurs not racers so that is why it is an out of place comment"

Many of the big guns are the same amateurs (as you said) who go out and run 150+ in cats and 110+ in vees. If you can run your boat at those speeds you should be capable of driving in big water. What are they going to do when they come upon some waves at that speed?

[boatme]

Cigarette, Fountain and Apache!!! :)

I couldnt even tell you where I could catch a race on tv anymore.. When Discovery Channel did a show with AMF offshore, I thought that was great.. Love Muscle Racing did thosw promo videos.. It'd be nice to see a major media outlet pick them up for a show.. I mean, you had OCC, Billy Lane, Monter Garage, Pimp my Ride... How many show can you make without taking that step to a boat related show.

Supposedly this is in the works

Maybe Ron P will show up and tell us how the TV show is progressing

There was a plane to focus on two or three teams (Poker Run Or Race)
for a TV show

[fund razor]

Yeah I know who he is but the statement calling out a bunch of pleasure boaters out to have fun is like Reggie claiming to have a "cat killer" to the same crowd.

Now if Charlie ran his boat yesterday to the lunch stop with the other few boats then he would be entitled to make the statement he did.

This was a pleasure boating event run by mostly amateurs not racers so that is why it is an out of place comment. Also keep in mind back when Charlie was racing boats were significantly heavier which would give a better ride and ran with much less horsepower which often broke. So a champion then was running more of an endurance race with a solid wavecrusher than a top speed event which is what a lot of poker runs turn into.

I think many would agree that Mr. McCarthy has all the credibility in the world to bring up this topic of discussion. I have found the discussion to be really interesting. Many would also agree that the decision of whether or not to go out in any given condition is the decision of the skipper alone. Please don't make this about what Charlie has or hasn't done. I was bummed to see how an Icon was handled here.
It was a challenging topic. I am thankful that it was posted by a legend like Mr. McCarthy, so we can make it about the topic rather than about each other.

[Madpoodle]

It's a pleasure run, not a race, not a sanctioned event. If the conditions made it uncomfortable, and folks backed out, SO WHAT? Not all boaters are driven by their ego's, some actually have brains...

[glh]

Great thread... Few of them evoke passion like this one anymore


...not beat up for something he posted!!!!I don't agree here.

An opinion was stated, I think it would of been appropriate if it where a race not a weekend too have fun with a bunch of buddies. And like anything in life you state in public it will be addressed by others with various views.

We're responsible for what we do & say, irrelevant to what you have achieved before, ask Elliot Spitzer... or OJ! :sifone:

[JupiterSunsation]

Keep in mind more poker runners have been killed in the last 4 years than professional racers. Summer of 05 we lost 5 people in one crash...... Making a decision on the side of caution is the way to go no matter what the ability of the equipment was.

[Ratickle]

Keep in mind more poker runners have been killed in the last 4 years than professional racers. Summer of 05 we lost 5 people in one crash...... Making a decision on the side of caution is the way to go no matter what the ability of the equipment was.

That's a sobering fact we tend to forget about. :(

[cigdaze]

Keep in mind more poker runners have been killed in the last 4 years than professional racers. Summer of 05 we lost 5 people in one crash...... Making a decision on the side of caution is the way to go no matter what the ability of the equipment was.


It was blowing like a motherfvcker today...25-30 knots, 7 - 9 footers in the gulf, wash-machine sht in the bay. It takes a special breed to go out in a day like this. Respectfully, It was one of those days that most would have decided to stay at the dock. There were some boats that I saw heading out today that probably should not have. Take it for what it's worth.

It's about having fun. When it comes to putting your gear and/or one's self is at risk, sometimes the best call is to err on the side of conservatism, thus leaving yourself an opportunity to have fun another time.
That's the only point I was trying to make in my post. I'm a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy.

P.S.
I saw the Nashville Cats truck in St. Pete this weekend (looked like it was towing a car trailer - not boats - for the festival of speed)...It about brought tears to my eyes; very sobering.

[VtSteve]

It's the same for a lot of things. NASCAR fans that drive souped-up Vettes, people that have BMW's and Porsche's, many of whom couldn't begin to navigate on a track, much less a windy twisty through mountain roads. People like to feel they're part of a group, without necessarily being in the heat of it.

I think Poker runs are probably the closest most people will ever get to this kind of action. They can actually feel more a part of it given the hardware that's out there if they can afford it. Obviously, many are very proficient with their boats, but most lack the time, money, and even the skills to be out in water like that going fast. Just as in every sport, there's a much smaller percentage of people that can handle pushing the envelope.

But think of it this way, without PR's and fans that want to buy the fancy boats regardless of whether they are good pilots or not, racing would probably suffer big time. It's the reason Nike pays Tiger so much to use their equipment. Same with just about anything. The real tribute lies in the boaters that can take their boats out in snotty seas like that and handle it. Takes a special skillset, and like anything else, takes a rare breed. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be much fun would it?

[catastrophe]

Actually I was amazed at the speeds that the cats ran at in those conditions.
My 44 quad V Nortech took the water easily and thats why we stayed out there. But when you stand a 36 Cat straight up in the air and get blown backwards mid flight by the wind its time to cool your jets.
Amazingly no big breakdowns or busted up equipment....everybody is building better stronger equipment these days.
But it was really rough and not everyone in every boat was comfortable in those seas.

[T2x]

Charlie:

With all due respect, there is a world of difference between a Poker Run and a race. As stated earlier there have been a number of fatalities in Poker Runs in the past few years although most of them occurred at very high speeds in calmer conditions.... In any case Poker Runners are , in many cases, not experienced racers, nor do they want to be.

We may look back with admiration on yesterday's racers who took off in any weather to attempt a showdown with mother nature, but even those guys didn't take their wives and kids along...or their useless, next door neighbor, Archie.

I have been one of the most vocal proponents of Poker Run (and Boat Racing)Safety for years and even created Skaterfest in response to some injuries in NJ of innocent passengers in high performance boats. You may be impressed with the guys that finished, but even those boats were probably sadly lacking in fundamental cockpit safety or survival equipment...... not to mention actual functioning canopy systems that work.

Remember when we had to have life rafts and 3 day's food rations? There was a reason for that...... Even certifiable nutcases need food and water.
:D

T2x

[DaveP]

When a 50 foot turbine cat comes in and a 50 foot turbine v bottom comes in that should tell you something. I was there and kept my boat on the trailer friday and saturday.It was 50mph gusts at the very least.Had a great time broke nothing and will be back another day! Call me a *****,or a genius.Just do it in person.I wish I could post pics of tampa bay they are on my buddies camera.

Good judgement for those people who turned around probably saved the coast guard alot of money.:sifone:

Extremely wise words......we can only hope that more people follow your awesome example today and tomorrow.

[Ratickle]

Charlie:

With all due respect, there is a world of difference between a Poker Run and a race. As stated earlier there have been a number of fatalities in Poker Runs in the past few years although most of them occurred at very high speeds in calmer conditions.... In any case Poker Runners are , in many cases, not experienced racers, nor do they want to be.

Wev may look back with admiration on yesterday's racers who took off in any weather to attempt a showdown with mother nature, but even those guys didn't take their wives and kids along...or their useless, next door neighbor, Archie.

I have been one of the most vocal proponents of Poker Run (and Boat Racing)Safety for years and even created Skaterfest in response to some injuries in NJ of innocent passengers in high performance boats. You may be impressed with the guys that finished, but even those boats were probably sadly lacking in fundamental cockpit safety or survival equipment...... not to mention actual functioning canopy systems that work.

Remember when we had to have life rafts and 3 day's food rations? There was a reason for that...... Even certifiable nutcases need food and water.
:D

T2x

How'd you know about Archie?

Well said, and only water???:)

[stainless]

That's the only point I was trying to make in my post. I'm a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy.

P.S.
I saw the Nashville Cats truck in St. Pete this weekend (looked like it was towing a car trailer - not boats - for the festival of speed)...It about brought tears to my eyes; very sobering.

The guy from Nashville Cats recently purchased a 399 skater v bottom that has been re rigged with 1200 + hp engines(Young Performance Engines) (see posts elsewhere on here)
Glad to see he's getting back into it !:)

[bluellama]

What happened?? I heard there were 73 boats registered and 50 boats left to take the start.......BUT only about 7 or 8 boats made it to Sarasota. When I started asking people about it, I got very reserved answers. No one wanted to diss anyone else, so the comments were low key.



Well it has been quite a 24 hours since my first post. Obviously some feelings have been hurt and for that I apologize. My intent was to put the focus on the boats, not the egos.
From the 50 boats that started, take out the boats with wives, girl friends and kids , and the boats that have owners with no experience in these conditions, there still had to be 10 or 15 boats with crews with experience.
This post was just a personal observation. I was surprised and thought I would post it here for comments.

Charlie, you answered your own question. Looking at your math, and the safety criteria you used to narrow the field, the boats/crews that were able to balance the risk/reward aspect of the large water did so.

[LEOPAJM]

Close very close 2 out of 3 aint bad

Wasn't Formula the other one ?

[cigdaze]

The guy from Nashville Cats recently purchased a 399 skater v bottom that has been re rigged with 1200 + hp engines(Young Performance Engines) (see posts elsewhere on here)
Glad to see he's getting back into it !:)
Got it; Thanks...
:)

[sp123]

You were right Charlie, some take it the wrong way, Oh well!

[T2x]

You were right Charlie, some take it the wrong way, Oh well!

Charlie does better than I do in that regard...... ;)

[baddogz28]

Last summer I ran from East Chicago, IN to Chicago for the Chicago Scene boat party at the Playpen... NWS called for 2-3's, but it wound up being 7-10's for most of the 15 mile ride there. A guy in a 38 gun turned around.

40 minutes later:

1 burst 5 qt jug of oil (total debacle)
a totally destroyed cabin with shyt tossed everywhere
1 crying girlfriend who got bounced off the cockpit floor, repeatedly

Thankfully, we made it safe and sound. Dennis (Obnoxus) was impressed we didn't turn around...


Long story short, had the NWS forecasted accurately I would have def. launched at Burnham in Chicago or not gone at all.

Too much risk to my boat and crew... Although I can say, I probably picked up some priceless boat-handling skills along the way.


If I were a hardcore ex-racer with a big dollar, wave crushing rig, you can bet your ass I'd have probably completed that run you speak of though, as long as there were no women and children on my rig.

Provocative topic Mr. McCarthy- thanks for posting it.

[catastrophe]

With all due respect, there is a world of difference between a Poker Run and a race. As stated earlier there have been a number of fatalities in Poker Runs in the past few years although most of them occurred at very high speeds in calmer conditions.... In any case Poker Runners are , in many cases, not experienced racers, nor do they want to be.




Exactly....Very good point


And you don't see ANY racers that are going out in questionable water the next day up till 2 am in a bar either.

[stainless]

And you don't see ANY racers that are going out in questionable water the next day up till 2 am in a bar either.[/QUOTE]

Now that's a good point !:26:

[Top Banana]

[QUOTE=baddogz28;16709 If I were a hardcore ex-racer with a big dollar, wave crushing rig, you can bet your ass I'd have probably completed that run you speak of though, as long as there were no women and children on my rig.

Provocative topic Mr. McCarthy- thanks for posting it.[/QUOTE]

Well I guess that sums up this thread!!!

Thank you all for so kindly sharing your thoughts.....looks like we had quite a few views along the way by other members ...which is good for the site.

There clearly is a distinction here that I wasn't fully aware of before....but now consider myself fully briefed.

I hope to have a poker run boat for next season and I look forward to sharing the run on rough days with those who care to...for the others..... enjoy your day in any way that makes you happy....enough said.

Of course I can never adequately explain the era that an old fart like myself is from....maybe this might help. Once upon a time....on race morning at 7AM...if the wind was not blowing at least 10MPH...the race was CANCELLED. Different strokes for different folks.

PS T2X....it was never the difference between a race and a poker run...it was just enjoy the conditions and do it safely with your friends....if you can't then turn back.

[Buoy]

Charlie, let me be the first to say I understand your post from the beginning.
Alot of us guys that are younger realize through the pictures that guys like T2rex, BROWNIE, 7x, Jim, and yourself bring to the table here. I don't mean to be leaving anyone out, and apologize if I have.
You guys had some stones to make those races happen.
The pictures of a guy laying flat on the deck just to get the boat on plane...
That takes some stones.
I personally really appreciate the fact that you guys choose to share those stories with us.
I also see where you might be a little disappointed that these guys that have mega hardware chose not to take it out into those conditions.
You have to be a little jealous (that may not be the right word) that these guys have all this technology, and you basically ran it with a compass and a chart, and two-three guys that were basically expecting to return (if lucky) with a few broken ribs, and at least a weeks worth of bruises.
Don't let it sour you.
"These Damn Kids these days...":sifone:

Thanks for everything you contribute, and that is a lot.

[Top Banana]

Charlie, let me be the first to say I understand your post from the beginning.
Alot of us guys that are younger realize through the pictures that guys like T2rex, BROWNIE, 7x, Jim, and yourself bring to the table here. I don't mean to be leaving anyone out, and apologize if I have.
You guys had some stones to make those races happen.
The pictures of a guy laying flat on the deck just to get the boat on plane...
That takes some stones.
I personally really appreciate the fact that you guys choose to share those stories with us.
I also see where you might be a little disappointed that these guys that have mega hardware chose not to take it out into those conditions.
You have to be a little jealous (that may not be the right word) that these guys have all this technology, and you basically ran it with a compass and a chart, and two-three guys that were basically expecting to return (if lucky) with a few broken ribs, and at least a weeks worth of bruises.
Don't let it sour you.
"These Damn Kids these days...":sifone:

Thanks for everything you contribute, and that is a lot.

Thank you .....we do get our rewards with the kids every now and then....and you would appreciate this one.

Ratman let me drive his Cigarette one day out on the Gulf that was blowing pretty good.......after the ride, that was the quietest that boy had been in years...I'm sure he shared with you.

[fund razor]

That's the kind of guy who should be building our boats. :)

Thanks Charlie. (and buoy too.)

[PARADOX]

Charlie. You can pound the chitt out of the Avanti anytime.
KW... here we come. :biggrinjester:

[baddogz28]

Well I guess that sums up this thread!!!


Glad to hear we're on the same page. :seeya:


we do get our rewards with the kids every now and then
I'm 25, hopefully I'm able to chat with you at an event sometime! :)

[Tank]

I haven't read all the posts but I will say this from personal experience.

Can my resin bucket Top Gun handle 6 footers and snotty weather? Of course, I've been in those conditions before and got back safe and dry.

However, I (as most poker runners) are "fare weather boaters". Sunny and nice water...And when I say nice water, I don't mean flat water. I mean a good 2' swell and some chop to get up ontop of and work the throttles a bit.

When it gets brutally rough, it takes the fun out of it for me. I go boating to relax and have a good time. If I have to start worrying about the safety of my crew and machinery it takes away from me relaxing.

That's just how I see it.

[cigdaze]

Well I guess that sums up this thread!!!

Thank you all for so kindly sharing your thoughts.....looks like we had quite a few views along the way by other members ...which is good for the site.

There clearly is a distinction here that I wasn't fully aware of before....but now consider myself fully briefed.

I hope to have a poker run boat for next season and I look forward to sharing the run on rough days with those who care to...for the others..... enjoy your day in any way that makes you happy....enough said.

Of course I can never adequately explain the era that an old fart like myself is from....maybe this might help. Once upon a time....on race morning at 7AM...if the wind was not blowing at least 10MPH...the race was CANCELLED. Different strokes for different folks.

PS T2X....it was never the difference between a race and a poker run...it was just enjoy the conditions and do it safely with your friends....if you can't then turn back.

Charlie,
You and you're generational cohorts in offshore racing are an inspiration to all of us; I mean with that with the utmost in respect. Your efforts and adventure put us on the map and set a course for us to enjoy what we have today in terms of recreational offshore seamanship and technology. I completely see your point, and appreciate the stance - one which busts at the seams with gumption and pride when facing the challenges of mother nature and the seas - one that is full of accomplishment and victory.

It's also needless to say that we are a point where there are few offerings out there, speaking of today's craft, that can't handle all but the harshest of conditions, but it takes a trained set of eyes to determine the potential for detriment and make the call on whether to pursue adventure or to call it for what it is, and remain within the confines of safety - and that's where the distinction must lie. Do you dedicate yourself to the race, or does one find themselves simply seeking some moments of pleasure?

[Top Banana]

Charlie,

It's also needless to say that we are a point where there are few offerings out there, speaking of today's craft, that can't handle all but the harshest of conditions, but it takes a trained set of eyes to determine the potential for detriment and make the call on whether to pursue adventure or to call it for what it is, and remain within the confines of safety - and that's where the distinction must lie. Do you dedicate yourself to the race, or does one find themselves simply seeking some moments of pleasure?


Thank you Nick.....first of all I am just another boat nut like all of you....only through circumstance and luck did I find myself in the heart of the action..Miami in 1963. I was sent for a part for a new race boat at a guy's shop, by the name of Arrow Now....Who I said? Aronow...

The rest is history...his, not mine. I was just the kid trying to bum rides in the test boats and race boats whenever I could....the same as all of you, if you had been there. Full story on the site www.bananaboatco.com in the heritage section and media section.

I don't want to turn this into a commercial for Brad and Tres, but if you are the owner of a boat that is within your reach as far as dollars, but out of your reach as far as ability....get yourself some lessons and learn to run it in a safe manner so you can use it in all kinds of sea conditions.

Another fellow boater friend of mine, who went on to become a big auto dealer in the northeast is Herb Chambers. Herb had a home in Connecticut on the Connecticu River and another in Boston...in the 70's he used his 35 Mistress to commute between them all the time. Boats are made to take care of you...not the other way around.

[Dangerous Dave]

The only time I've ever seen the bay rougher than that was durring a hurricane. There was a small craft advisory issued for the bay. That doesn't happen often. After watching the boats leave the vinoy basin I went and checked the NOAA bouys and the gulf had an average swell of 8.5 ft at 6 to 8 seconds! That is nasty. If they are 12 sec. apart thats one thing but when their that close?

I will say Catastrophe's Nor-Tech was absolutely destroying waves when it took off. You could see it throwing 20 ft walls of water all the way through the blowboat regatta. Did any of the blowboaters give anyone the one finger salute?

I dont blame anyone for turning around. I just hope everyone had fun and I'm glad everyone made it back in one piece. I also hope everyone enjoyed St. Pete as it is a privilage to live here. It's a cool city that has a lot to offer.

[Dangerous Dave]

Hey CigDaze, You bringing your boat to the Grand Prix this weekend?

[cuda]

With all due respect, there is a world of difference between a Poker Run and a race. As stated earlier there have been a number of fatalities in Poker Runs in the past few years although most of them occurred at very high speeds in calmer conditions.... In any case Poker Runners are , in many cases, not experienced racers, nor do they want to be.




Exactly....Very good point


And you don't see ANY racers that are going out in questionable water the next day up till 2 am in a bar either.


The reason there are more fatalties in poker runs than racing might also be attributed to the fact there are a whole lot more poker runners, than racers.
Not saying that inexperience has nothing to do with it, but just a thought.

[Ratickle]

The reason there are more fatalties in poker runs than racing might also be attributed to the fact there are a whole lot more poker runners, than racers.
Not saying that inexperience has nothing to do with it, but just a thought.

And racers are a very close knit group who try to help each other if they see something which seems unsafe or questionable.

Just a question, the racers at the Poker Run, if a race had been scheduled, would it have been postponed? Thsy cancelled one up here a few years back for too rough.

[T2x]

And you don't see ANY racers that are going out in questionable water the next day up till 2 am in a bar either.

Wanna bet?

T2x

[cigdaze]

Hey CigDaze, You bringing your boat to the Grand Prix this weekend?
Sht! Is that this weekend? I can't keep up. It's possible, will see how it goes...
:)

[cigdaze]

The reason there are more fatalties in poker runs than racing might also be attributed to the fact there are a whole lot more poker runners, than racers.
Not saying that inexperience has nothing to do with it, but just a thought.

Let's also add that race boats are equipped with safety harnesses, oxygen (for closed canopies), racers wear full lifeline protection (some wear fire suits), helmets, etc., etc....You also have divers and paramedics up in the air ready to go at a moments notice...much of this doesn't exist at poker runs, not to mention many invited guests haven't a clue on what to expect, nor what to do in an emergency.

[phragle]

you CAN have medics at poker runs...medics like boat rides, But i have only had 1 pokerrun promoter ever talk to me about working an event. Unfortunately Boatme no longer holds SOTW. Medics aren't expensive and we usually have our own gear. From a legal standpoint it's actually better for a medic to volunteer than be paid (good samaritan law). medics like excitement, or they probably wouldn't be medics. call us up..send us a pm..99% of all medics are up for 'working' anything fun as long as it's not going to cost them money (medics actually get paid squat- a carreer in fast food can often pay more than a private ambulance company). unless your dealing with canopies a bird is nice but not vital, you find 3 medics that want to help, and 3 boats that will have them, one boat a front runner, one boat that runs mid pack and one that towards the back..call them 'safety' boats not med boats and your not on the legal hook for med services, you don't have to pay them, just feed em, and cover thier room, maybe help with travel expenses..it's cheap, cal a private ambulance co. and ask what they charge per hour for a couple medics, your jaw will drop.

[Sean Stinson]

Wanna bet?

T2x


I want some of this action as well!!! I know alot of racers that love the rough....And I have strapped many a hungover driver and t-man into a boat while feeding them extra strength tylenol!!!!!:sifone::sifone::sifone:

[Ratickle]

you CAN have medics at poker runs...medics like boat rides, But i have only had 1 pokerrun promoter ever talk to me about working an event. Unfortunately Boatme no longer holds SOTW. Medics aren't expensive and we usually have our own gear. From a legal standpoint it's actually better for a medic to volunteer than be paid (good samaritan law). medics like excitement, or they probably wouldn't be medics. call us up..send us a pm..99% of all medics are up for 'working' anything fun as long as it's not going to cost them money (medics actually get paid squat- a carreer in fast food can often pay more than a private ambulance company). unless your dealing with canopies a bird is nice but not vital, you find 3 medics that want to help, and 3 boats that will have them, one boat a front runner, one boat that runs mid pack and one that towards the back..call them 'safety' boats not med boats and your not on the legal hook for med services, you don't have to pay them, just feed em, and cover thier room, maybe help with travel expenses..it's cheap, cal a private ambulance co. and ask what they charge per hour for a couple medics, your jaw will drop.

I will file that away for future reference. Thanks.

[Sean Stinson]

I remember racing Ventura back some years ago and turning North up the coast past the pier and looking at the water saying aawwww this is going to hurt!!!!!

I will agree with the safety issues and the relaxing.....nothing used to ruin my day more than having someone with you that wasn't having fun usually some barbie doll with the done up hair and makeup...... My ex wife for example went to dinner in Long Beach hair all done and makeup on....I looked at her like have you lost your mind put it in a ponytail and stick on a ball cap no it will be fine just dont go over 50.....ok babe you got it.....left Newport break at approx 6pm turned into the swell went up on plane looked at her......she looked like a mix of phyllis Diller and Tammy Faye Baker.....Asked her you alright???? Her response "Just phucking terrific"......Great enjoy the rest of your cruise....She spent an hour in the cabin recomposing herself upon arrival at Shoreline Village while I drank at the bar.....Maybe thats why we arent married anymore!!!!!!

[Nortechnorth]

This event was very refreshing in the fact that it really showed the "pleasure" aspect of the runs. I have been on runs where it was ROUGH and the general feeling was "this is going to be brutal. Let's just get through it." That is not fun. You shouldn't feel like that on a weekend you came to for fun and relaxation.

At the drivers meeting, PRA said that at any time, anyone felt uncomfortable, unsafe or just didn't want to run, there was no harm, no foul. You would still recieve your cards.

We had the sunny weather and beautiful venue we all came for. We got that thunder and rumble we all love and the mass start. And when it got too rough, everyone who wanted to turn around did so, headed for the docks and the rest of a great weekend. It was that simple, that beautiful.

To make the entire run to Sarasota and back, you needed three things:

1: The proper vessel, capable of safely handling BIG water.

2: Experienced operators and crew.

3: The DESIRE to run in the BIG water.

I was with Cat'astrophe in his Nor-tech 44 CC quad boat. We had the first two requirements. That boat is a tank that can drive through almost anything. Alec (Cat'astrophe)and Keith from Nor-tech were running the boat so there were no issues with experience. Dwight Powell who owns the yellow 44 Nor-tech Roadster Supercat was also in the boat with his brother in-law. The crew was as capable as any other.

But we stopped the boat when we got to open water and had a little pow-wow. There were people turning around already. We asked ourselves if we were in the mood to go out in the BIG water for a BIG adventure... We weren't. We were there for a relaxing weekend. So we turned around. There was NO SHAME in it.

As much as there is a competitive nature in many of the poker runners' nature, you can show up at these runs and drive as long or short as you want, fast or slow and have a fantastic time. I had as fun a ride in Alec's new 44 CC Nor-tech, turning around after 30 minutes, as I would have had with Rob in Alec's previous 43 Nor-tech Supercat which ran all the way to Sarasota and back with ease beside Lawrason's and Jim Lee (not that it wouldn't have been fun in the cat boat). It's about the sun, water and atmosphere. That is why people in 25ft Baja's who get up the nerve to actually do runs up north on the lakes usually wind up surprising themselves with the great time they had.

I sell Nor-tech's. So I understand the whole big gun mentality. It can be a lot of fun. The big hardware is awesome and a great part of the runs. It is fantasic that we have people bringing their ultra fast, ultra cool equipment to the runs. But this weekend highlighted that 150 mph+ is not what the runs are all about. Thanks Alec and PRA for a great weekend.

[Ratickle]

I remember racing Ventura back some years ago and turning North up the coast past the pier and looking at the water saying aawwww this is going to hurt!!!!!

I will agree with the safety issues and the relaxing.....nothing used to ruin my day more than having someone with you that wasn't having fun usually some barbie doll with the done up hair and makeup...... My ex wife for example went to dinner in Long Beach hair all done and makeup on....I looked at her like have you lost your mind put it in a ponytail and stick on a ball cap no it will be fine just dont go over 50.....ok babe you got it.....left Newport break at approx 6pm turned into the swell went up on plane looked at her......she looked like a mix of phyllis Diller and Tammy Faye Baker.....Asked her you alright???? Her response "Just phucking terrific"......Great enjoy the rest of your cruise....She spent an hour in the cabin recomposing herself upon arrival at Shoreline Village while I drank at the bar.....Maybe thats why we arent married anymore!!!!!!

Ya think?????? :sifone::rofl::rofl::sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

Ya think?????? :sifone::rofl::rofl::sifone:

Pretty much after 12 years of putting up with each others **** it was time to make a change.....I didnt want to spend the rest of my life like Al Bundy:26::26:

[Sean Stinson]

Everyone that turned around did it because they wanted a relaxing weekend....everyone that didnt wanted to think they had just participated in the Miami to Bimini run....Its all good either way....I used to love running in big water...... didn't get any better than that....6-8 was my favorite

[BraceYourself]

Didn't read this whole thread, but untill your in some big water you hav no idea. Usually you turn around because your passengers are scared ****less. Two times with two different chicks I ended up in some nasty water in my 42. Both times the chicks started crying. Just not fun at that point. All you can do is just keep on going, pulling off plane is a death wish.

[Sean Stinson]

Didn't read this whole thread, but untill your in some big water you hav no idea. Usually you turn around because your passengers are scared ****less. Two times with two different chicks I ended up in some nasty water in my 42. Both times the chicks started crying. Just not fun at that point. All you can do is just keep on going, pulling off plane is a death wish.

If you come off plane you are usually asking for a whole lot more problems.....Again as I stated safety is first....then if your demented like me and your passengers are up for it, which most never are, then you can play in the big water but you have to be on your A game for that!!:sifone::sifone:

[OneBadInjun]

Criticize an ICON of SOS! "Thank-You" Mr. Banana.:)

[Top Banana]

Apparently someone forgot to tell you that the ride is much softer on all involved if you just keep the boat in the air at all times.

Sammy James in the first shot

Billy Martin in the second

Our man Brownie in the third.

[Top Banana]

Same technique. ...same result, easy air rides before steps.

Betty Cook and me, playing in the Pacific in the first shot.

Bobby Saccenti with the famous 41

Phil Lewis shown driving the Bertram to shreds in the Around Cape Cod race that ended in very rough conditions.

[PARADOX]

Awsome flights Charlie.. I don't have a pilot's license. :leaving:

But I do want to make one more point. Nothing to do with the St. Pete run.

Poke Runs are actually a great place to do a little experimentation, as long as the crew is up to it. You got many boats, tow companies ready.. lot of friends to help you out. You'r not alone. I think it's important to every performance boaters to know what are the limitations of the rig and driver. IE; Sarasota run last year. Started out as a nice sunny day. The time we got to Tampa Bay under the bridge.. rain.. storms.. gusty winds... and 6-8 footers. On the way back after lunch even water spouts.
Sudden change in conditions. You can get stuck in some seas in a Poker Run.. a weekend outing... anytime.. anyplace. I think it's wise if you don't want to run in seas, you don't feel like.. Making a safe decision is the first priority protecting crew and passangers. But I think it would help the performance bating all around if this decision is based on choice and not out of "need". I make that decision as a choice, not that I can't handle or run in some serious chitt. Many of you know the changing condition on lake Michigan, or the Florida waters. Sometimes it's necessary to run in seas that are white knuckle related. I always returned my boat, crew and myself safely to the docks. (a few bruises and banged up elbows doesn’t count) :)
Many years ago I was in Ft Lauderdale with my kids watching the Air and Sea show. Seas suddenly started to pick up, and I knew something is coming. Most boaters ignored the warning signs or they didn’t know.
While we are watching the Blue Angles, I pull in the anchor, looking to the North and see cold front and darkness from some Noreastern fragment coming it. The time the storm hit we were already under way heading out to sea to avoid all the panicing boaters and going through the storm trying to get into Hillsboro inlett. The storm hit just as we were passing all the anchored boats. Major confusion, anchor lines tangled, 7 boats sunk. Dozens taking in water and demaged. One of my coworkers/friend told me a few days later he was handing over his little kids to a huge cruiser when he was in ankle deep water in his boat. We got to the ICWW safely in 6-7 in a 26’ boat, with only a few scared kids., and a terrified father. But I was in storms before this, and been there after. My kids and passangers know what I, and my boats could handle, even if it’s an unforseens storm, and that makes boating for them a safer and a more confident experience.
Just food for thought.


(now we got to have a "storm stories" thread.)

[phragle]

last year, it was on lake erie, was in 4-6 at night, blowin 20 or so...blindside with zero warning by confirmed 85 mph wind, heavy downpour and 4-6 turned to 8-10, one shouldnt go out if it's beyond your comfort level, but at the same time you need to learn to handle big stuff, because sooner or later you will be caught in it like it or not.

also last year, I had to work the day of the motor city poker run, but I went to the lunch stop (clammies) as it was on my way to work. waiting for the boats a 17' little deck/wannabe pontoon boat cruzed in with like 6 kids 18~25. talked to them a bit as the poker run boats were comming in, noticed the typical Erie storm sky, fired up the radar on the cell phone and LOTS of red. kids freakked and said we gotta go!! they had an alomost 20 mile ride across open lake back to toledo. I told them to sit tight, have another beer..in an hour and half the storm would pass and the lake would probably glass off. they didn't listen..Im glad I wasn't on that boat..typical tornado spawning ugly storm...and I'm sure they nailed hard. When someone who knows much more than you says something about the water..LISTEN!. an open 17' boat with a 30 hp eggbeater is not what you want cruising thru 6-8 foot storm waves.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Billy Martin in the second


Billy is still doing it today ! :sifone:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p1058598995-3.jpg

[Ratickle]

Billy is still doing it today ! :sifone:



That looks to be about 20 lower than Charlies pic.....

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

That looks to be about 20 lower than Charlies pic.....
The authorities won't let them run on plane out the inlet any more... :(

[Ratickle]

How high do you think Sammy James is in the first shot??

Looks to be at least as high as the boat is long....:ack2:

[BraceYourself]

Here's a couple good ones.

[NNRT]

Charlie - have you ever noticed at a Poker run - many of the big boats - those that could run in just about any condition safely - as a reasonable speed I might add - that These are the guys in which everyone in the boat is in Uniform - Tough guys - no fear - real racers - right down to the patches ? Were they the ones that did not make the run ? I wonder if they are going to trade in their Colorful Uniforms, or Race Jump suits - for a Panama Hat, and a Hawaiian Shirt - Ya Think ? - No one says get there in a split second - run 35 mph in a 50 ft. boat - Just because they have a boat that does 100 mph, does not mean it cant run at 35 mph - Always safety first - ! You did say - some made the run - right ? Maybe they were the ones that used their heads while at sea !

Now as for Airborne - here is a shot of me just testing - off Point Pleasant one evening - No Bolster either !

Some how - egos get bruised and they shift to point exclusively to Safety - but both Safety and a Fun Run can be had - maybe not at 100 mph - I understood right away what you were trying to say in your orriginal post - Maybe all the Chrome, Fancy Paint, and the Macho Uniforms need to be replaced !

Oh When Bill Wishnick, Doc Magoon - Willie Meyers, Don Arronow raced - ya never saw a Jumpsuit then or fancy uniforms -

Seems egos are hurt - oh well !

[Chris]

Billy is still doing it today ! :sifone:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p1058598995-3.jpg

I was walking through the dry pits at Cambridge last Fall and we walked past Billy's boat. I asked Glassdave "Did you notice how many of the raceboats here have chrome horns mounted to the deck?" To which he replied"...and rod holders too."

maybe you don't need an $800,000.00 setup to compete and enjoy yourself.

By the way, he won that weekend. Then he buzzed the docks with his checkered flag.

[Sean Stinson]

And some of us still have fun in the air!!!!:sifone::sifone:

[Sunsation96]

Speaking of air:sifone: beat this one:sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

Top this

[BraceYourself]

No drives or engines in the boat.

[Dangerous Dave]

Sean,

Too bad there are no pictures of that boat coming back form Long Beach at midnight

[mosi]

Hey, I have an idea......
.
.
....Hold my beer and watch this......


:(

[Top Banana]

Okay, Okay I'll shut up, but this is what I was talkng about.

Right size boat, experienced crew, proper trim for conditions and having a ball.

BTW....is Jay the best with these photo shoots of his or what...beautiful.

[Sean Stinson]

Sean,

Too bad there are no pictures of that boat coming back form Long Beach at midnight

Obviously you have been on one of my midnight runs:sifone::sifone::sifone::sifone::sifone:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

BTW....is Jay the best with these photo shoots of his or what...beautiful.
Nice shot Jay !!!

[lucky strike]

[QUOTE=Top Banana;171099]Okay, Okay I'll shut up, but this is what I was talkng about.

Right size boat, experienced crew, proper trim for conditions and having a ball.


[/QUOTE

And he knows how to work the tabs.

[Ratickle]

Okay, Okay I'll shut up, but this is what I was talkng about.

Right size boat, experienced crew, proper trim for conditions and having a ball.

BTW....is Jay the best with these photo shoots of his or what...beautiful.

That is a Statement......:sifone:

[XPRESS 33PP]

Speaking of air:sifone: beat this one:sifone:

How about flying over a Bmw

[FULL FORCE]

No drives or engines in the boat.

Thats a scary looking pic!

[JupiterSunsation]

Charlie - have you ever noticed at a Poker run - many of the big boats - those that could run in just about any condition safely - as a reasonable speed I might add - that These are the guys in which everyone in the boat is in Uniform - Tough guys - no fear - real racers - right down to the patches ? Were they the ones that did not make the run ? I wonder if they are going to trade in their Colorful Uniforms, or Race Jump suits - for a Panama Hat, and a Hawaiian Shirt - Ya Think ? - No one says get there in a split second - run 35 mph in a 50 ft. boat - Just because they have a boat that does 100 mph, does not mean it cant run at 35 mph - Always safety first - ! You did say - some made the run - right ? Maybe they were the ones that used their heads while at sea !

Now as for Airborne - here is a shot of me just testing - off Point Pleasant one evening - No Bolster either !

Some how - egos get bruised and they shift to point exclusively to Safety - but both Safety and a Fun Run can be had - maybe not at 100 mph - I understood right away what you were trying to say in your orriginal post - Maybe all the Chrome, Fancy Paint, and the Macho Uniforms need to be replaced !

Oh When Bill Wishnick, Doc Magoon - Willie Meyers, Don Arronow raced - ya never saw a Jumpsuit then or fancy uniforms -

Seems egos are hurt - oh well !


Uhhhhh, well spoken from a guy that obviously doesn't do poker runs because they are meant to be fun... Are you going to ridicule the team where all the women have matching thongs too? Did you know most runs have an award for best dressed crew? Do you remember when Dollabill had a pair of blow up dolls in the back of his Fountain? There is a fun factor here and their isn't much glamour in racing these days when a scratch ticket in the lottery pays better than the weekend purses.........

[Tank]

And some of us still have fun in the air!!!!:sifone::sifone:

I'm right there with you Sean! And daddy's not worried to run in the rough!!

[NNRT]

Uhhhhh, well spoken from a guy that obviously doesn't do poker runs because they are meant to be fun... Are you going to ridicule the team where all the women have matching thongs too? Did you know most runs have an award for best dressed crew? Do you remember when Dollabill had a pair of blow up dolls in the back of his Fountain? There is a fun factor here and their isn't much glamour in racing these days when a scratch ticket in the lottery pays better than the weekend purses.........

It never was the money in Offshore Racing - those that started what is now modern offshore racing, did not need the money - in fact - the Throttlemen got any money they won - as for the big BAD boats- whats the phrase, "if it does not go, Chrome it ? "

I am confused- is it a Poker Run - or a Poker show and tell ? Why have a 50 ft. boat - a 20 foot boat would do just fine - don't ya think ?

Easy now - - dont get your knickers in a twist !

[Ratickle]

I'm right there with you Sean! And daddy's not worried to run in the rough!!

Sweet pics.....

[lucky strike]

Uhhhhh, well spoken from a guy that obviously doesn't do poker runs because they are meant to be fun... Are you going to ridicule the team where all the women have matching thongs too? Did you know most runs have an award for best dressed crew? Do you remember when Dollabill had a pair of blow up dolls in the back of his Fountain? There is a fun factor here and their isn't much glamour in racing these days when a scratch ticket in the lottery pays better than the weekend purses.........

It never was the money in Offshore Racing - those that started what is now modern offshore racing, did not need the money - in fact - the Throttlemen got any money they won - as for the big BAD boats- whats the phrase, "if it does not go, Chrome it ? "

I am confused- is it a Poker Run - or a Poker show and tell ? Why have a 50 ft. boat - a 20 foot boat would do just fine - don't ya think ?

Easy now - - dont get your knickers in a twist !

Your up early Phil.....Hows Jersey....See ya this summer....

[MarylandMark]

How about flying over a Bmw

Imagine explaining that to the insurance agency.. :sifone:

[NNRT]

Hey Steve - how are you - Meta and the kids - all is well here- when you have young Pups - 8 months old- they get you up early - Just one question- is what is happening to this country really Change we can belive in - or just a nightmare ?

[MikeyFIN]

It's the same for a lot of things. NASCAR fans that drive souped-up Vettes, people that have BMW's and Porsche's, many of whom couldn't begin to navigate on a track, much less a windy twisty through mountain roads. People like to feel they're part of a group, without necessarily being in the heat of it.

I think Poker runs are probably the closest most people will ever get to this kind of action. They can actually feel more a part of it given the hardware that's out there if they can afford it. Obviously, many are very proficient with their boats, but most lack the time, money, and even the skills to be out in water like that going fast. Just as in every sport, there's a much smaller percentage of people that can handle pushing the envelope.

But think of it this way, without PR's and fans that want to buy the fancy boats regardless of whether they are good pilots or not, racing would probably suffer big time. It's the reason Nike pays Tiger so much to use their equipment. Same with just about anything. The real tribute lies in the boaters that can take their boats out in snotty seas like that and handle it. Takes a special skillset, and like anything else, takes a rare breed. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be much fun would it?

It´s also the single reason Apaches have such a following... and no show up when there´s a true offshore run to be made.
Miami to Bimini and Round Britain Race in 2008 for example...

Now many guys have asked me why I haven´t started a business tuning cars and boats as a true profession.
Well I choose who I want to wrench for and if my work has a risk of being wasted then I refuse no matter how much money there´s to be had.

So I´m a Racing mechanic and even as we speak I haven´t found a shortage of real racers to work for and have chosen that as a profession instead of building a big garage and take on every customer that want to be part of XXX (fill your favourite here)

And like I´ve said many times about powerboaters well they shouldn´t be compared with offshore racers just like weekend sailboaters shouldn´t be compared to competition sailors because even 10 yr old competitive sailboaters can handle even with their dinghies a lot more than a family boater with their family Ever.
I know I did.
10 footers in North Sea with an optimist dinghy and the races just went on and you had to Finish or you died outthere in hypothermia.

[MikeyFIN]

Well it has been quite a 24 hours since my first post. Obviously some feelings have been hurt and for that I apologize. My intent was to put the focus on the boats, not the egos.

When this great sport first began, it was a wonderful place for boat manufacturers to show to the world that the product they made could handle open ocean crossings. The winners were rewarded with sales and the losers were allowed to go back and try it again at the next contest.

The boats that are made today are even better than the old ones. My question is why don't the owners (in general...no one in particlar was singled out) feel comfortable runnng them in tough conditions.

From the 50 boats that started, take out the boats with wives, girl friends and kids , and the boats that have owners with no experience in these conditions, there still had to be 10 or 15 boats with crews with experience.




hmmm Why bring Wives to a poker run ?
My Wifey wouldn´t even consider run with me in a racecar or a powerboat if there´s even a slight chance I won´t "behave"...
On the other hand I don´t borrow her racehorses either.... one hard fall was enough...

[MikeyFIN]

Uhhhhh, well spoken from a guy that obviously doesn't do poker runs because they are meant to be fun... Are you going to ridicule the team where all the women have matching thongs too? Did you know most runs have an award for best dressed crew? Do you remember when Dollabill had a pair of blow up dolls in the back of his Fountain? There is a fun factor here and their isn't much glamour in racing these days when a scratch ticket in the lottery pays better than the weekend purses.........

Over here a customers boat and crew won the best dressed team award by getting pink wigs to everyone.... only guys in the group and partied afterwards around the clock.
The Pink wig idea was a hint to the big boat owners that got spanked by a little guy with a little boat... although a capable one.
The first year with a freshened engine all stringers broke...
Guess some of the Hardcores like Charlie should join us Vikings...more soulmates here I reckon.

[MikeyFIN]

Okay, Okay I'll shut up, but this is what I was talkng about.

Right size boat, experienced crew, proper trim for conditions and having a ball.

BTW....is Jay the best with these photo shoots of his or what...beautiful.

aka leave the Wife and kids home and have some real A-quality time....

[MikeyFIN]

I think many would agree that Mr. McCarthy has all the credibility in the world to bring up this topic of discussion. I have found the discussion to be really interesting. Many would also agree that the decision of whether or not to go out in any given condition is the decision of the skippers Wife alone. .

Had to correct a bit...:26:

[fund razor]

Ok. There is some of that, too. :)

[Sean Stinson]

Uhhhhh, well spoken from a guy that obviously doesn't do poker runs because they are meant to be fun... Are you going to ridicule the team where all the women have matching thongs too? Did you know most runs have an award for best dressed crew? Do you remember when Dollabill had a pair of blow up dolls in the back of his Fountain? There is a fun factor here and their isn't much glamour in racing these days when a scratch ticket in the lottery pays better than the weekend purses.........

Easy Jupiter this guy has more flight time filming races than most of us will ever come close to having while racing in the easy chair!!!! And he has been doing it around the world. I would venture to say he has forgot more about boats than most of us will ever know!!!! So with that being said please just a bit of room to speak!!!

[Sean Stinson]

I'm right there with you Sean! And daddy's not worried to run in the rough!!

Nice shots my brother!!!!:sifone::sifone::sifone: I wish I could have taken you out in Geronimo once!!!!:_boobies::_boobies:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Uhhhhh, Do you remember when Dollabill had a pair of blow up dolls in the back of his Fountain? .
Was that because he had a Fountain ? :biggrinjester:
I know once he owned the Cig he had real women with enhancements on the upper deck... :rofl: