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View Full Version : Finally!...Some Common Sense Legislation.



cigdaze
03-26-2009, 12:16 PM
Well...not yet, but it's a damn fine proposal! We've all seen the chain mail floating around for years; Perhaps our fine leaders finally received it, too! :D

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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090326/D975MFE80.html

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) - Want government assistance? Just say no to drugs.

Lawmakers in at least eight states want recipients of food stamps, unemployment benefits or welfare to submit to random drug testing.

The effort comes as more Americans turn to these safety nets to ride out the recession. Poverty and civil liberties advocates fear the strategy could backfire, discouraging some people from seeking financial aid and making already desperate situations worse.

Those in favor of the drug tests say they are motivated out of a concern for their constituents' health and ability to put themselves on more solid financial footing once the economy rebounds. But proponents concede they also want to send a message: you don't get something for nothing.

"Nobody's being forced into these assistance programs," said Craig Blair, a Republican in the West Viginia Legislature who has created a Web site - notwithmytaxdollars.com - that bears a bobble-headed likeness of himself advocating this position. "If so many jobs require random drug tests these days, why not these benefits?"

Blair is proposing the most comprehensive measure in the country, as it would apply to anyone applying for food stamps, unemployment compensation or the federal programs usually known as "welfare": Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and Women, Infants and Children.

Lawmakers in other states are offering similar, but more modest proposals.

On Wednesday, the Kansas House of Representatives approved a measure mandating drug testing for the 14,000 or so people getting cash assistance from the state, which now goes before the state senate. In February, the Oklahoma Senate unanimously passed a measure that would require drug testing as a condition of receiving TANF benefits, and similar bills have been introduced in Missouri and Hawaii. A Florida senator has proposed a bill linking unemployment compensation to drug testing, and a member of Minnesota's House of Representatives has a bill requiring drug tests of people who get public assistance under a state program there.

A January attempt in the Arizona Senate to establish such a law failed.

In the past, such efforts have been stymied by legal and cost concerns, said Christine Nelson, a program manager with the National Conference of State Legislatures. But states' bigger fiscal crises, and the surging demand for public assistance, could change that.

"It's an example of where you could cut costs at the expense of a segment of society that's least able to defend themselves," said Frank Crabtree, executive director of the West Virginia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union.

Drug testing is not the only restriction envisioned for people receiving public assistance: a bill in the Tennessee Legislature would cap lottery winnings for recipients at $600.

There seems to be no coordinated move around the country to push these bills, and similar proposals have arisen periodically since federal welfare reform in the 1990s. But the appearance of a cluster of such proposals in the midst of the recession shows lawmakers are newly engaged about who is getting public assistance.

Particularly troubling to some policy analysts is the drive to drug test people collecting unemployment insurance, whose numbers nationwide now exceed 5.4 million, the highest total on records dating back to 1967.

"It doesn't seem like the kind of thing to bring up during a recession," said Ron Haskins, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. "People who are unemployed, who have lost their job, that's a sympathetic group. Americans are tuned into that, because they're worried they'll be next."

Indeed, these proposals are coming at a time when more Americans find themselves in need of public assistance.

Although the number of TANF recipients has stayed relatively stable at 3.8 million in the last year, claims for unemployment benefits and food stamps have soared.

In December, more than 31.7 million Americans were receiving food stamp benefits, compared with 27.5 million the year before.

The link between public assistance and drug testing stems from the Congressional overhaul of welfare in the 1990s, which allowed states to implement drug testing as a condition of receiving help.

But a federal court struck down a Michigan law that would have allowed for "random, suspicionless" testing, saying it violated the 4th Amendment's protections against unreasonable search and seizure, said Liz Schott, a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

At least six states - Indiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, Wisconsin and Virginia - tie eligibility for some public assistance to drug testing for convicted felons or parolees, according to the NCSL.

Nelson said programs that screen welfare applicants by assigning them to case workers for interviews have shown some success without the need for drug tests. These alternative measures offer treatment, but can also threaten future benefits if drug problems persist, she said.

They also cost less than the $400 or so needed for tests that can catch a sufficient range of illegal drugs, and rule out false positive results with a follow-up test, she said.

Ratickle
03-26-2009, 12:34 PM
But a federal court struck down a Michigan law that would have allowed for "random, suspicionless" testing, saying it violated the 4th Amendment's protections against unreasonable search and seizure, said Liz Schott, a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities



:boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley::boxing_smiley:


Wonder who argued the case? One guess before I look?

DonziGirl
03-26-2009, 12:35 PM
It makes so much sense I'm sure it won't go anywhere.


I'm tired of paying taxes to help people who won't help themselves or are here illegally. GRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tony
03-26-2009, 12:37 PM
I read that earlier this A.M.

Expect it to be met with mass opposition from the wellfare rats crying about how "we got our rights"

Just out of curiosity, just how does someone on wellfare and food stamps afford to buy illegal drugs? :mad:

DonziGirl
03-26-2009, 12:40 PM
The same way they afford lottery tickets and booze...


I'm not completely comdemning welfare or programs like it, but there are WAY too many people who take advantage of the system. I've heard the phrase "I'm going to have another kid so I can get a bigger welfare check" out of more than one person.

phragle
03-26-2009, 01:03 PM
it doesn't have to be expensive. there are several kits out there that are simple to use and have good accuracy.

a quick ebay search yeilded several of these kits: iScreen 10 Panel Instant Drug Screening Kit by Instant Technologies Inc.

for less than $5.00 a piece, bought in huge bulk orders without fancy packaging the price would fall considerably. Probably to the $1.00 level. a basic test with 90% accuracey would also be sificiant enough to be taken at face value while allowing the option of an 'apeal test' being a more complete test at a modest $20 cost. if you want free money is peing in a cup and a possible $20 fee to much to ask?


Amphetamine (AMP) 1000 ng/ml
Barbiturates (BAR) 200 ng/ml
Benzodiazepines (BZO) 300ng/ml
Cocaine (COC) 300 ng/ml,
Methadone (MTD) 300 ng/ml
Morphine/Opiates (OPI) 2000 ng/ml
Methamphetamine (Mamp) 1000 ng/ml
Marijuana (THC) 50 ng/ml
PCP 25 ng/ml
Ecstasy (MDMA) 500 ng/ml

if somebody does test positive then a more expensive follow up test could be given.

sure there are ways to defeat such basic tests, but the people defeating a basic test would easliy go to more extreme measures to defeat a more expensive test and consitiute a small minority. The test would be quick and cost less than the time of the person giving it, yet the savings would be astronomical.

sledge
03-26-2009, 02:29 PM
I like the idea, but will it truly save any money? You gotta think these things all the way through...

Just what do you do with the crack who.re mother of 5 after she tests positive? Take the kids and put them with foster parents/facilities (at the cost of taxpayer money). Take the addict and put her in rehab (at the cost of taxpayer money).

They're a toxic part of society....what can you do with them?

Birdog
03-26-2009, 02:55 PM
I have to test on every job i go to and submit to random tests at any time...Seems fair that they should also.

Sea-Dated
03-26-2009, 03:02 PM
Even if it costs more, people should NOT be rewarded for doing illegal acts. It might be cheaper to leave the bank robber out of jail instead of locking him up but is it the right thing to do?

phragle
03-26-2009, 04:19 PM
I like the idea, but will it truly save any money? You gotta think these things all the way through...

Just what do you do with the crack who.re mother of 5 after she tests positive? Take the kids and put them with foster parents/facilities (at the cost of taxpayer money). Take the addict and put her in rehab (at the cost of taxpayer money).

They're a toxic part of society....what can you do with them?

you let them hit bottom plain and simple. by giving them money you are enabling the problem. take kids from the crack addict mom...absolutly. those kids have no future but becomming crack addicts themselves.

the govt does not need to spend money saving these people, there are plenty of free, or donor supported self help programs out there. They need to either save themselves thru hard work and sacrifice or die. plain and simple. I put my life back together at one time, Gino freely admits to doing the same, and I am sure that with the thrill seeking type'A' personalities around here, we are not the only ones.

You cannot save these people no matter how much money you spend or how hard you try. they will either choose to save themselves or perish. the sooner they make that choice the better.

sledge
03-26-2009, 04:45 PM
You cannot save these people no matter how much money you spend or how hard you try.

Exactly. The truly effective solution is not pallatable for our society.

Tony
03-26-2009, 05:02 PM
you let them hit bottom plain and simple. by giving them money you are enabling the problem. take kids from the crack addict mom...absolutly. those kids have no future but becomming crack addicts themselves.

the govt does not need to spend money saving these people, there are plenty of free, or donor supported self help programs out there. They need to either save themselves thru hard work and sacrifice or die. plain and simple. I put my life back together at one time, Gino freely admits to doing the same, and I am sure that with the thrill seeking type'A' personalities around here, we are not the only ones.

You cannot save these people no matter how much money you spend or how hard you try. they will either choose to save themselves or perish. the sooner they make that choice the better.


Your spot on with this. ;)

phragle
03-26-2009, 05:51 PM
Exactly. The truly effective solution is not pallatable for our society.

we have lived with pallatable for far to long in to many aspects. we now live on junk food because it tastes good and are dying of malnutrition. the country is finally starting to realize this and food of real substance is becming more pallatable by the day.