F1 engine technology

[boostbros]

Ok to keep the brain cells from freezing up here in the great white north lets have some fun... someone should build a light mystic with 4 of these hooked to about a 10 speed tranny can you hear that coming into key west harbor? look out over hyped blow tourch class....:) http://mfmglabs.com/F1%20article.htm

[Seafordguy]

The technology in F1 is amazing. That article is even a little conservative. in 2007 the top teams, though kept highly secret, were in the 900 HP range and spinning close to 19,000 rpms. In 2008 they reduced the engines from 3.0 liter V-10's to 2.7 liter V-8's.

F1 is truley the most over the top circus of a sport in the world. To have the top teams (and in some cases the mid pack teams) spending $5-600 Million a year for 17 or 18 races is just absurd. It is a shame that America as a whole couldn't care less about F1 - admittedly it takes some time to get into it enough to know the people and rules, strategies, etc.... but it makes for a grandiose sport!!

[Seafordguy]

jmo/I like VG30ETT 800+ (+power/-weight) :) May only need 2. :)

Wasn't the VG30DETT the 3.0 liter DOHC V-6's that were in the 1990-1996 Nissan Z's???

[glh]

Try those apples...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbCcGQXuqXw&feature=channel_page

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

They are cool trick motors. I;m skeptical about how well the would work in a boat. a boat needs real torque not I narrow high strung power band. It would need a 10 speed trannie to come close to working. Still I would take some Sterlings over those any day.

[Pete B]

TV doesnt do it justice, I went last year to the GP in Bahrain, it was over the top.

[ILMORdude]

ILMOR has been quite successful in F1 in years past. The engines we have on display in our lobby are spectacular pieces.

[boostbros]

ilmordude whip some vids of those bad boys on us

[Seafordguy]

TV doesnt do it justice, I went last year to the GP in Bahrain, it was over the top.

The only one I have ever been to was the Indianapolis race in 2006 where all the Michelin clad cars protested and pulled into the pits at the end of the parade lap, leaving only 6 cars to run - HAHA. Wish I had that money back.

The sound of those things running is amazing but watching them slow down is UNREAL.

They would make a horrible boat application for any practical purpose. If they sit for more than about 20 seconds they often times end up disintegrating within a few minutes. They don't handle not being able to dissapate heat, that's why the radiators ducts are packed with dry ice, and fans are run over them if they have to sit for ANY length of time anywhere.

[Chris]

The F1 stuff is some incredible technology and watching them run on a tight course is absolutely amazing. But my all-time favorites were the Can Am cars of the 70's. Wretched excess- nothing more. I still remember Mark Donohue running the Porsche 917-30 at 256MPH down the straight at Talladega. His lap times were 220+. This was in '75!

[Brownie]

Mark Donahue was hanging around Thunderboat Row back in those days. He was telling us about setting the all-time closed course speed record of 245 mph. At the end of the straightaway, the number blew off of the hood. What is surprising about that? It was PAINTED on.!

[Chris]

Donohue actually had a Cig 35 Awesome. It was painted Sunoco colors, like his Porsche- blue with yellow accents. Has #3's on it and Gale Banks turbo 468's in it. I owned the boat briefly in the late 80's.

That 917-30 was an umbelievable car. It weighed 1800 and change. The engine set to endurance-racing boost was 1200 hp. He could dial up the wastegate from the cockpit and get 1500+ out of it. Which he did if he had trouble getting past someone. He won every race in '73. Since canAm was set up basically to be a no-rules class, they imposed fuel consumption rules in '74 so that everyone else wouldn't give up and go home.

[Brownie]

Chris, that boat ended up in Fort Lauderdale with a tuna tower on it.............

[C_Spray]

ilmordude whip some vids of those bad boys on us

Indy 1994 - A one-off program to stick their rules up.....never mind.

209 cubic inches, 55 inches of boost (about 12 psi), 9,800 rpm = 1,012 hp. This was 200 hp more than everybody else. We raced it once, won the race, retired the engine. Silly rules were changed - Mission accomplished.

By the way - this is a two-valve rocker-arm engine.... :drool5:

[C_Spray]

...That 917-30 was an umbelievable car. It weighed 1800 and change. The engine set to endurance-racing boost was 1200 hp. He could dial up the wastegate from the cockpit and get 1500+ out of it. Which he did if he had trouble getting past someone. He won every race in '73. Since canAm was set up basically to be a no-rules class, they imposed fuel consumption rules in '74 so that everyone else wouldn't give up and go home.Actually, he didn't win the first two - a collision in the first and a fuel leak in the second. After that, it was all over. Brian Redman drove the car in a one-off appearance in 1974 at Mid-Ohio and Roger Penske himself drove it at a Porsche reunion at Lime Rock in 2001. I was fortunate enough to be there at all 3 events!

Amazing is right - 21" wide rear tires. And you can spin them at will. Any gear if "the knob" is turned up. Again - :drool5:

[Lee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_QyUD6V5_I :drool5:

[Chris]

Chris, that boat ended up in Fort Lauderdale with a tuna tower on it.............

It was a mess when I took it on a trade. It had been on the bottom- maybe more than once.


Actually, he didn't win the first two - a collision in the first and a fuel leak in the second.

Meant "they", wrote "he". The cars were undefeated. Unreal automobiles- they were monsters. The other cars were no slouches. A local guy here worked for Chevrolet at the time and was assigned to their Can Am effort. He still has one of the Reynolds 390 blocks with the silicon/aluminum bores.

Hopefully Bob Madara will chime in- he's got some history with the series himself.

[BradH]

Twins in a 32 Doug Wright, crash box, Arnesons...could be a sweet combo.

How low are the torque numbers for engines like these?

[Brownie]

When I worked for Holman Moody in 1971,2,3, we had the 'Holman Moody Honker' Can-Am in the hangar with the original 496 SOHC all ally monster engine. It was driven by Mario Andretti, and would break the tires loose (and the half-shafts) at the far end of the long straight in Laguna Seca. We also had the Ford 40's from Daytona and Le Mans. Sold them for peanuts.

[Rik]

The F1 stuff is some incredible technology and watching them run on a tight course is absolutely amazing. But my all-time favorites were the Can Am cars of the 70's. Wretched excess- nothing more. I still remember Mark Donohue running the Porsche 917-30 at 256MPH down the straight at Talladega. His lap times were 220+. This was in '75!

You actually saw one of these run.. Lucky F'r.

I was at Laguna Seca and it was "Porsche" year at the historics. Mark Donahue ran the car and it was just a swoosh as it went by.

Extremely fast, it was leaving the period F1 cars way behind as well as everything else.

[C_Spray]

When I worked for Holman Moody in 1971,2,3, we had the 'Holman Moody Honker' Can-Am in the hangar with the original 496 SOHC all ally monster engine. It was driven by Mario Andretti, and would break the tires loose (and the half-shafts) at the far end of the long straight in Laguna Seca. We also had the Ford 40's from Daytona and Le Mans. Sold them for peanuts.
That car was painted in a hideous lavender/purple color and carried Paul Newman's name on it as a sponsor. Reportedly, it handled so badly that Mario asked to be allowed to put his name on it and make Newman drive it.



It was a mess when I took it on a trade. It had been on the bottom- maybe more than once. It may have been the one that wound up belonging to Jay Signore of Penske/IROC, who hired me in 1978. There was a Cigarette out back of the Penske Racing shop for several years, although I never looked under the tarp. There was also a pair of gray Traco-built smallblocks stored in the back of the shop. Rumor had it that it was an open-cockpit style boat that had been swamped from behind in Manesquan Inlet. Sound correct?

[Brownie]

Right on all counts, Chuck. Most of the first 28' opens took a dive (as did the first three 28' Magnums). Holman Moody didn't have a wind tunnel. They did their aero work with John Holman standing in front of the car and talking.

[Chris]

You actually saw one of these run.. Lucky F'r.

I was at Laguna Seca and it was "Porsche" year at the historics. Mark Donahue ran the car and it was just a swoosh as it went by.

Extremely fast, it was leaving the period F1 cars way behind as well as everything else.

When my dad stopped racing, he went to work for Firestone in the racing tire division. My uncle worked at Goodyear- ran their race effort over there. I got the chance to tag along quite a bit.

The 917 had the horsepower of a Sterling 1550- in a car that weighed less than a ton. They were monsters.

[Chris]

When I worked for Holman Moody in 1971,2,3, we had the 'Holman Moody Honker' Can-Am in the hangar with the original 496 SOHC all ally monster engine. .

My neighbor (as a kid) was a millwright at Goodyear. They had a test stand that was designed to simulate the immediate acceleration an aircraft tire experiences on landing. They'd spin the tire up then bring it into contact with a drum dyno. They used a pair of Holman & Moody Boss 429 NASCAR motors to drive the tire. It had to accelerate almost instantaneously. But the engines weren't enough- they replaced them with some gigantic electric motor. Goodyear sold him the engines for $1,000 a piece after they sat for about a decade. There were 3 of them- and a pile of parts. He offered them to me for $6k. I was short on dough at the time and passed.

Ah, the things I've let slip through my fingers...

[Dude! Sweet!]

I think one of my all time favorite quotes comes from Mark Donohue... I'm sure most of you guys know this one... When asked whether the 917-30 had enough horsepower, he replied that you don't have enough hp until you can spin the rear tires, in top gear, at the end of the longest straight. You guys should pick up a copy of Unfair Advantage (Donohue's book). I'm sure a lot of you guys have read it, but it's a great read.

I grew up in the IMSA era... GTP gets my vote as the sexiest of the sexy.

[glassdave]

When I worked for Holman Moody in 1971,2,3, we had the 'Holman Moody Honker' Can-Am in the hangar with the original 496 SOHC all ally monster engine. It was driven by Mario Andretti, and would break the tires loose (and the half-shafts) at the far end of the long straight in Laguna Seca. We also had the Ford 40's from Daytona and Le Mans. Sold them for peanuts.

I bought some parts from a guy up in Antioch Ill that is restoring the Miles/Gurny GT-40. Got to check it out when he just started the project several years ago. What a great piece of history. Also this summer on the way back from a race we parked the rig next to a transporter in one of the turnpike stops. Driver let us in the trailer and he had a 917 as well as a birdcare Masarati, wayyyy coool!

[ILMORdude]

Bada$$ video..............

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF0ON3oKbZg&feature=related

[Chris]

The 917-30- at Talladega near the end

uT6bJeheAN0

[C_Spray]

Without the Sunoco and CAM2 paint schemes, it would be hard to classify the 917/10 and 917/30 as "pretty" cars. I always thought that the M8_ series of McLarens looked nice, but in the end, racing is war, not a beauty contest. Teddy Mayer is a good friend, and told me that McLaren's Can-Am budget never exceeded $500,000 for the entire season! Amazing.

ILMORdude (Lebowski?): Pretty "peppy" throttle response there! Do the headers always glow like that even at low loads? I've always associated high EGT's with late timing.

If you were around for the turbo days, you can probably relate to how obnoxious those engine fumes would get halfway through the warm-up process, just as the condensation started to disappear from the tailpipes. The heavy doses of formaldehyde (by-product of methanol combustion) were way worse than nitro!

A little something I have sitting around: 1994 Ilmor "Indy" V8. (The "Mercedes-Benz" on the coil covers is incorrect and will be changed.) This is the 4-cam, 161 c.i. version that we ran throughout the CART season, not the 209 pushrod engine we ran at Indy. It's a dyno-fresh unit that's going into a 1994 Penske Indy car that I'm having restored. We tested it at 700 hp at 10,000 rpm, but I recall racing them at about 760 @ 11,800 or so. ABout 280 pounds, if I recall. The parts in these engines are jewelry; I can't imagine what's inside a current F1 engine.

[Anchored]

Without the Sunoco and CAM2 paint schemes, it would be hard to classify the 917/10 and 917/30 as "pretty" cars. I always thought that the M8_ series of McLarens looked nice, but in the end, racing is war, not a beauty contest. Teddy Mayer is a good friend, and told me that McLaren's Can-Am budget never exceeded $500,000 for the entire season! Amazing.

ILMORdude (Lebowski?): Pretty "peppy" throttle response there! Do the headers always glow like that even at low loads? I've always associated high EGT's with late timing.

If you were around for the turbo days, you can probably relate to how obnoxious those engine fumes would get halfway through the warm-up process, just as the condensation started to disappear from the tailpipes. The heavy doses of formaldehyde (by-product of methanol combustion) were way worse than nitro!

A little something I have sitting around: 1994 Ilmor "Indy" V8. (The "Mercedes-Benz" on the coil covers is incorrect and will be changed.) This is the 4-cam, 161 c.i. version that we ran throughout the CART season, not the 209 pushrod engine we ran at Indy. It's a dyno-fresh unit that's going into a 1994 Penske Indy car that I'm having restored. We tested it at 700 hp at 10,000 rpm, but I recall racing them at about 760 @ 11,800 or so. ABout 280 pounds, if I recall. The parts in these engines are jewelry; I can't imagine what's inside a current F1 engine.

C_Spray

Do you happen to know what the typical max engine speed would be for a '98 vintage champ car?

Thanks,

Jeff

[ILMORdude]

Without the Sunoco and CAM2 paint schemes, it would be hard to classify the 917/10 and 917/30 as "pretty" cars. I always thought that the M8_ series of McLarens looked nice, but in the end, racing is war, not a beauty contest. Teddy Mayer is a good friend, and told me that McLaren's Can-Am budget never exceeded $500,000 for the entire season! Amazing.

ILMORdude (Lebowski?): Pretty "peppy" throttle response there! Do the headers always glow like that even at low loads? I've always associated high EGT's with late timing.

If you were around for the turbo days, you can probably relate to how obnoxious those engine fumes would get halfway through the warm-up process, just as the condensation started to disappear from the tailpipes. The heavy doses of formaldehyde (by-product of methanol combustion) were way worse than nitro!

A little something I have sitting around: 1994 Ilmor "Indy" V8. (The "Mercedes-Benz" on the coil covers is incorrect and will be changed.) This is the 4-cam, 161 c.i. version that we ran throughout the CART season, not the 209 pushrod engine we ran at Indy. It's a dyno-fresh unit that's going into a 1994 Penske Indy car that I'm having restored. We tested it at 700 hp at 10,000 rpm, but I recall racing them at about 760 @ 11,800 or so. ABout 280 pounds, if I recall. The parts in these engines are jewelry; I can't imagine what's inside a current F1 engine.

Very nice piece you have there sir...........:) That vid is pretty recent of the current Mclaren team car. We're only in IRL land now. Spray, ive only been around since '04.

[TrippM]

Very nice piece you have there sir...........:) That vid is pretty recent of the current Mclaren team car. We're only in IRL land now. Spray, ive only been around since '04.

Ilmor in IRL? I thought they used Honda spec engines. Is Ilmor doing rebuilds? I've lost a lot of interest after the CART/IRL battle reduced the series to a shadow of it's former self. I used to love the diversity of multiple engine and chassis manufacturers that CART provided.

[C_Spray]

C_Spray

Do you happen to know what the typical max engine speed would be for a '98 vintage champ car?

Thanks,

JeffCripes - I should remember (He!!, I was in charge of Penske Racing in those days), but that was s-o-o-o long ago... depending on the engine manufacturer, I'd suspect low-to-mid 12,000's. Those were the "nuclear-weapons-at-close-range" days, when Mercedes, Ford, Honda and Toyota were all going at it big time. (See TrippM's post.)

Our fatal mistake was chosing to stay with Goodyear tires instead of Firestone. The tire war was in full swing, and the gap was enormous. It was like trying to run an Unlimited on aluminum props...

[Dude! Sweet!]

My buddy and I just made a bedframe for my 3 year old son... Thought you guys would get a kick out of it. We call it the "M20B-ed". Little dude digs it!

[ILMORdude]

Ilmor in IRL? I thought they used Honda spec engines. Is Ilmor doing rebuilds? I've lost a lot of interest after the CART/IRL battle reduced the series to a shadow of it's former self. I used to love the diversity of multiple engine and chassis manufacturers that CART provided.

The engine was designed by Ilmor. Our facility performs about 90% of the work for the IRL engines i'd say.

[TrippM]

The engine was designed by Ilmor. Our facility performs about 90% of the work for the IRL engines i'd say.


Yeah, I started thinking about it after I posted and remembered that Ilmor did a lot of design work for the series. I think Penske do their own rebuilds? Not sure anymore. Used to be a rabid fan and had friends in the CART organization but like I said earlier, the split and war just took it's toll on the series and the fanbase. I was pleasantly surprised to see some people connected to open wheel posting here. Small world :)

[Maximus]

Ok to keep the brain cells from freezing up here in the great white north lets have some fun... someone should build a light mystic with 4 of these hooked to about a 10 speed tranny can you hear that coming into key west harbor? look out over hyped blow tourch class....:) http://mfmglabs.com/F1%20article.htm

We opened the new Unlimited class WIDE open for that exact reason. You or anyone else can build an engine/boat combo and come kick our ass (bring your stainless set). The Class 1 Lambos and Illmors sound sick when they run and you can put the illmores in a poker run boat tomorrow. Team Victory has multiple sets of 12000rpm BMW marine engines sitting in their engine room (old Class 2).

I'm a huge F1 fan and there has been strong rumors of your exact "dream" scenerio in development. can't tell you more than that.

btw..All the mystics are light......

Regard's

Over Hyped Blow Torch

[C_Spray]

Yeah, I started thinking about it after I posted and remembered that Ilmor did a lot of design work for the series. I think Penske do their own rebuilds? Not sure anymore. Used to be a rabid fan and had friends in the CART organization but like I said earlier, the split and war just took it's toll on the series and the fanbase. I was pleasantly surprised to see some people connected to open wheel posting here. Small world :)
I might know some of your friends; I was on the CART team for Penske from 1980-1998 (ran it from 1989-1998) and still work for RP.

Our engine program shut down in 2001 through the Honda years, then re-opened for a while in the early IRL days (2002-2005??) for the Olds-based and Toyota engines. It closed for good when the team went back to Hondas a few years back, and then the whole operation (car preparation and all) moved out of Reading, PA to the stock car shop in Mooresville, NC in the fall of 2006. There is no engine shop at all down there. The stock car engines are built at Penske-Jasper in Concord, NC, Porsche handles all the work on the Daytona Prototype engines and the very same Ilmor guys that do the marine engines handle 100% of the Penske engine work, as the do for all the IRL Honda engines for every car in the series.

Ilmor's history is on their web site to read, but it's an enormously cut-down version of all that has gone on. Trust me - Ilmor has the credentials to hold their own within any racing category.

It would be interesting to see a true high-tech engine application in offshore racing. A couple years after we retired the one-off 1994 pushrod engine, I heard that Gary Garbrecht was trying to get two of them to install as a pair in a 7 liter boat of some sort, since two of them represented a total of 418 cubic inches. Without boost limitations, they could have made 1,200 each on methanol, maybe a little less on gas. Since they made 530 lb-ft of torque each, they wouldn't need to many (if any) gears to run well. Too bad it didn't happen.

[boostbros]

miss geico no offense but i just don,t like the turbines they killed the unlimited class that used to be called thunder boats now we watch the unlimited lite class with the blown alky engines nothing comes close to a supercharged engine working its heart out to make the hair on your neck stand up! anyone here remember the old Dirty Laundry or INXS there have been many but i remember the sound of those 2 ....theres enough room in a mystic hull to get at least 3 engines per side....ilmore dude how come we never see a good old 16-71 blower sitting on top of one of those beauties? will they take boost i would think 1000hp ought to be pretty easy?

[Rik]

A couple years after we retired the one-off 1994 pushrod engine, I heard that Gary Garbrecht was trying to get two of them to install as a pair in a 7 liter boat of some sort, since two of them represented a total of 418 cubic inches. Without boost limitations, they could have made 1,200 each on methanol, maybe a little less on gas. Since they made 530 lb-ft of torque each, they wouldn't need to many (if any) gears to run well. Too bad it didn't happen.

I remember that race well. Unser, Fittipaldi and Tracy had those cars. Tracy had a crash in testing and had to sit out first rounds of Qualifying and thus Unser got the Pole.

I always wondered how much they were sand bagging back then. It didn't take Tracy long to catch up to the front of the pack before his went Poof.

[Maximus]

miss geico no offense but i just don,t like the turbines they killed the unlimited class that used to be called thunder boats now we watch the unlimited lite class with the blown alky engines nothing comes close to a supercharged engine working its heart out to make the hair on your neck stand up! anyone here remember the old Dirty Laundry or INXS there have been many but i remember the sound of those 2 ....theres enough room in a mystic hull to get at least 3 engines per side....ilmore dude how come we never see a good old 16-71 blower sitting on top of one of those beauties? will they take boost i would think 1000hp ought to be pretty easy?

None taken. I love the sound too...just like the performance and reliability of turbines more. Unfortunatly unless its rough rough , Pistons are no match The bump equalizes offshore.

. I'll be at Daytona for the Rolex 24 to hear those tweaked engines sing in two weeks.

I'll let you guys know if I hear that project get serious.


miss g

[C_Spray]

I remember that race well. Unser, Fittipaldi and Tracy had those cars. Tracy had a crash in testing and had to sit out first rounds of Qualifying and thus Unser got the Pole.

I always wondered how much they were sand bagging back then. It didn't take Tracy long to catch up to the front of the pack before his went Poof.
Actually, we weren't sandbagging that much. The problem was that the tires weren't designed to handle the extra aerodynamic loads we could put on them, so the only advantage we had was on the straights. (Emmo clocked 252 mph the day before qualifying!!) Tracy's failure was actually a turbo, not the engine itself.

[Steve Miklos]

I recenty became the "custodian" of this. A very good friend worked for Canon as a photographer. He and his wife took this Shadow race team chair and collected a few autographs. Chucky I was thinking of you when I first saw it!

[Steve Miklos]

More

[Steve Miklos]

Chuck no making fun of the Evel lunchbox LLamafeeder bought me that!
Steve

[Perlmudder]

None taken. I love the sound too...just like the performance and reliability of turbines more. Unfortunatly unless its rough rough , Pistons are no match The bump equalizes offshore.

. I'll be at Daytona for the Rolex 24 to hear those tweaked engines sing in two weeks.

I'll let you guys know if I hear that project get serious.


miss g

Oh man, you are lucky. a good friend of mine is racing in the Rolex 24 hour. Eric Lux car 86. said he could get me pit passes and all, just had to make it to daytona. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the timing will work. But it has got to be a blast

[C_Spray]

Chuck no making fun of the Evel lunchbox LLamafeeder bought me that! Steve
Cripes! The pictures are so fuzzy, I can hardly make anything out, much less a lunchbox! :ack2:

There's way more than Can-Am signatures on there. Looks like it could be a nice retirement bonus some day. No one's going to get Mark Donohue, James Hunt, Denny Hulme or Tom Pryce to autograph anything any more. Also looks like:


Bobby Unser
Al Unser (Sr.)
Bob Nagel
Sam Posey
Roger Penske
Johnny Rutherford
A.J. Foyt
Jackie Oliver
Tom Sneva
Jean-Pierre Jarier
David Hobbs
Gordon Johncock
Brian Redman
George Follmer
Mario Andretti
Jackie Stewart (?)

..and a couple that I can't make out. NICE!

(...I just remembered that I have a spark plug from the 917/30 that I got from Mark Donohue in the pits at Mid-Ohio in 1974. I have a front wheel fan from that car on my desk, too!)

[C_Spray]

Oh man, you are lucky. a good friend of mine is racing in the Rolex 24 hour. Eric Lux car 86. said he could get me pit passes and all, just had to make it to daytona. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the timing will work. But it has got to be a blast
Any relation to Cindy Lux? She's done some driving for me.

[Steve Miklos]

Cripes! The pictures are so fuzzy, I can hardly make anything out, much less a lunchbox! :ack2:

There's way more than Can-Am signatures on there. Looks like it could be a nice retirement bonus some day. No one's going to get Mark Donohue, James Hunt, Denny Hulme or Tom Pryce to autograph anything any more. Also looks like:


Bobby Unser
Al Unser (Sr.)
Bob Nagel
Sam Posey
Roger Penske
Johnny Rutherford
A.J. Foyt
Jackie Oliver
Tom Sneva
Jean-Pierre Jarier
David Hobbs
Gordon Johncock
Brian Redman
George Follmer
Mario Andretti
Jackie Stewart (?)

..and a couple that I can't make out. NICE!

(...I just remembered that I have a spark plug from the 917/30 that I got from Mark Donohue in the pits at Mid-Ohio in 1974. I have a front wheel fan from that car on my desk, too!)

I remembered you telling me about the spark plug and recently shared that story with the chairs owner and another friend . Sorry about the pictures it was a camera phone! I just last night heard a story about Tom Price I was not familiar with him until now. The chair just fits into the trunk of a 550 Maranello when folded up. We went to dinner he offered and I was not leaving without it!
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

See arrow

[ILMORdude]

See arrow

I swear when i read your name i said "No $hit, its the bouncer from Jerry Springer!!!"

[Steve Miklos]

Nope not him!
I have met Ian and Paul from Ilmor when I was the Competition Director for APBA not sure if we have ever met. Your products speak for themselves.
Steve

[Perlmudder]

Any relation to Cindy Lux? She's done some driving for me.

I think that is his mom, they live in Buffalo NY. I am pretty sure his mom and dad both did some racing. Eric is the only person I have ever been terrified in the car with. First time I met him years back he took his A4 drifting around a little circle park at about 70mph sideways.

[ILMORdude]

Nope not him!
I have met Ian and Paul from Ilmor when I was the Competition Director for APBA not sure if we have ever met. Your products speak for themselves.
Steve

Haha, yea i know your not. Just at first glance it looks like his name. We have not met before as i have only been at ILMOR for 5 yrs. Thanks for the compliment!

Nick-

[C_Spray]

Nick - Is there a copy of the Ilmor book somewhere around your offices? It makes interesting reading, especially the pushrod engine development program. Incredible effort on that project - I'm not sure how I lived through it!

[TrippM]

[QUOTE=C_Spray;83559]I might know some of your friends; I was on the CART team for Penske from 1980-1998 (ran it from 1989-1998) and still work for RP.

Our engine program shut down in 2001 through the Honda years, then re-opened for a while in the early IRL days (2002-2005??) for the Olds-based and Toyota engines. It closed for good when the team went back to Hondas a few years back, and then the whole operation (car preparation and all) moved out of Reading, PA to the stock car shop in Mooresville, NC in the fall of 2006. There is no engine shop at all down there. The stock car engines are built at Penske-Jasper in Concord, NC, Porsche handles all the work on the Daytona Prototype engines and the very same Ilmor guys that do the marine engines handle 100% of the Penske engine work, as the do for all the IRL Honda engines for every car in the series.

Ilmor's history is on their web site to read, but it's an enormously cut-down version of all that has gone on. Trust me - Ilmor has the credentials to hold their own within any racing category.

QUOTE]


You probably did or do know some of my friends because they actually worked for CART. Those were some good times and some great racing. I miss it.

The Penske organization is top notch. The cars are always well prepared and turned out very nicely. First class all the way. I'm also familiar with Ilmor and know they have an extensive racing history. A very capable company.

You're a lucky man to be associated with two very fine organizations.

[Maximus]

Oh man, you are lucky. a good friend of mine is racing in the Rolex 24 hour. Eric Lux car 86. said he could get me pit passes and all, just had to make it to daytona. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the timing will work. But it has got to be a blast


Me and my boys will cheer for him.

[Steve Miklos]

Cripes! The pictures are so fuzzy, I can hardly make anything out, much less a lunchbox! :ack2:

There's way more than Can-Am signatures on there. Looks like it could be a nice retirement bonus some day. No one's going to get Mark Donohue, James Hunt, Denny Hulme or Tom Pryce to autograph anything any more. Also looks like:


Bobby Unser
Al Unser (Sr.)
Bob Nagel
Sam Posey
Roger Penske
Johnny Rutherford
A.J. Foyt
Jackie Oliver
Tom Sneva
Jean-Pierre Jarier
David Hobbs
Gordon Johncock
Brian Redman
George Follmer
Mario Andretti
Jackie Stewart (?)

..and a couple that I can't make out. NICE!

(...I just remembered that I have a spark plug from the 917/30 that I got from Mark Donohue in the pits at Mid-Ohio in 1974. I have a front wheel fan from that car on my desk, too!)

Took a 2nd look last night also:
Peter Revson
Hurley Haywood
Richard Petty
One I cannot read I will get you a good photo and see if recognise it.
Steve

[RMBuilder]

Indy 1994 - A one-off program to stick their rules up.....never mind.

209 cubic inches, 55 inches of boost (about 12 psi), 9,800 rpm = 1,012 hp. This was 200 hp more than everybody else. We raced it once, won the race, retired the engine. Silly rules were changed - Mission accomplished.

By the way - this is a two-valve rocker-arm engine.... :drool5:


Chuck,

That engine was a work of art.
Let me see if I get the photo posting correct.

Bob

[RMBuilder]

Valve Train

[RMBuilder]

Valve Train 2

[RMBuilder]

Cylinder Head

[RMBuilder]

"Finger follower" pushrod actuation

[RMBuilder]

Combustion chamber

[Steve Miklos]

I remember Smokey's attampts with that rule. He claimed it about killed him!
Steve

[DONZI]

RRRRRRRRRRPM'S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyWP7mC1oX0

[C_Spray]

RMBUILDER - Wow, those pictures bring back memories. We worked SOOOO hard to keep the whole project a secret for the 7 months it took to develop it that it's weird (even now) to see pictures of the valvetrain published. Uber-secret $hit, that stuff was....

I have a set of upper and lower rockers, a pushrod and a piston on my desk. I'll have to get some shots of them when I get back next week. By using the lower rockers, we were able to reduce both the length and the forces on the pushrods, allowing us to make them even lighter. The rockers had far less inertia than conventional lifters as well, all helping to reduce the valve spring load and rate requirements. The pushrods were made of a special steel alloy that expanded at the same rate as the aluminum block and heads, so you could set the valve lash when the engine was cold and it would not change at operating temperature. All lash adjustment was done with various thickness lash caps that fit on top of the valves, thereby eliminating setcrews, locknuts, etc. Again - less inertia, fewer parts, better packaging.

All the lower rockers, spacers and mounting blocks were fitted to the follower shaft in sequence, hand-packed with individual needles (no cages) and then the ends were electron-beam welded in place. The entire assembly was a non-serviceable, one-shot deal; we threw them away once they were mileaged out. The same was true with follower rollers on the lower rockers and the tip rollers on the upper rockers: hand-assembled with individual needles, the shafts inserted and electron-beam welded in place. Once and done. To this day, I remember: "1,280 1mm by 12mm needles per engine". So much attention was paid to reducing friction in the valve train that the engine guys had to install (and remove) the upper rockers in a certain sequence with the engine rotated to a specific position. If you got it wrong, the valve springs would actually spin the engine over, and it would spray oil freakin' e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e! (Ask me how we found out....)

The ports in the head were awesome: 100% round and 100% straight into the chamber. When you took the top off of the intake plenum and opened the throttle butterflies, you could see the entire top of the intake valve. The airflow numbers were (to say the least!) very, very good.

DONZI - We had to do all of our endurance testing on the racetrack, through one of the worst winters for snow ever in the NE. At one point, we had to get equipment from the Allentown airport to clear off the track at Nazareth. The very next year, we built a second, "simulation" dyno like the Honda one in your video. I would have killed to have that in 1994. We ran a 24/7 program, where then engine guys would come in and rebuild a test engine overnight and dyno it at 5:00 AM. The car guys would come in at 6:00 AM, put it in the car (still hot from the dyno), and we would load it in the truck and leave for Nazareth by 9:00 AM. We'd test from 11:00 AM until 5:00 PM (earlier if it failed), be back at the shop at 7:00 PM, deliver the engine to the engine shop by 8:00 PM, and start the process all over again. After all was said and done, we went to Indy and ran the entire month without blowing up a single engine - not one. We have never done that, before or since.

Miklos is right - Smokey wasn't the only one these engines damn near killed. But, Holy Mother Of God, did that thing run! (The fact that there are TWO injectors per cylinder should give you a clue....)

[ILMORdude]

This past year, our guys ran something like 280,000 miles without one single failure. The Ilmor boys know how to design something that works!!

[Uncle Dave]

Fantastic pics, and Information.

Elegant engineering and innovative solutions to problems like this gives me a woody.

Id die to have a large displacement version of that engine running pump gas available today.

Uncle Dave

[Anchored]

Here's a few from BMW world in Munich.

Jeff

[Anchored]

More

[Anchored]

more

[Wobble]

The 1986 BMW f-1 engine was an incredible piece capable of better than 1300 hp for short bursts during qualifying

Season: 1986

Capacity: 1,499 cc

Cylinders: 4-cylinder in line

Bhp: 900

RPM: 11200


Watched that thing run back at Silverstone back in the day

[Anchored]

RMBUILDER - Wow, those pictures bring back memories. We worked SOOOO hard to keep the whole project a secret for the 7 months it took to develop it that it's weird (even now) to see pictures of the valvetrain published. Uber-secret $hit, that stuff was....

I have a set of upper and lower rockers, a pushrod and a piston on my desk. I'll have to get some shots of them when I get back next week. By using the lower rockers, we were able to reduce both the length and the forces on the pushrods, allowing us to make them even lighter. The rockers had far less inertia than conventional lifters as well, all helping to reduce the valve spring load and rate requirements. The pushrods were made of a special steel alloy that expanded at the same rate as the aluminum block and heads, so you could set the valve lash when the engine was cold and it would not change at operating temperature. All lash adjustment was done with various thickness lash caps that fit on top of the valves, thereby eliminating setcrews, locknuts, etc. Again - less inertia, fewer parts, better packaging.

All the lower rockers, spacers and mounting blocks were fitted to the follower shaft in sequence, hand-packed with individual needles (no cages) and then the ends were electron-beam welded in place. The entire assembly was a non-serviceable, one-shot deal; we threw them away once they were mileaged out. The same was true with follower rollers on the lower rockers and the tip rollers on the upper rockers: hand-assembled with individual needles, the shafts inserted and electron-beam welded in place. Once and done. To this day, I remember: "1,280 1mm by 12mm needles per engine". So much attention was paid to reducing friction in the valve train that the engine guys had to install (and remove) the upper rockers in a certain sequence with the engine rotated to a specific position. If you got it wrong, the valve springs would actually spin the engine over, and it would spray oil freakin' e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e! (Ask me how we found out....)

The ports in the head were awesome: 100% round and 100% straight into the chamber. When you took the top off of the intake plenum and opened the throttle butterflies, you could see the entire top of the intake valve. The airflow numbers were (to say the least!) very, very good.

DONZI - We had to do all of our endurance testing on the racetrack, through one of the worst winters for snow ever in the NE. At one point, we had to get equipment from the Allentown airport to clear off the track at Nazareth. The very next year, we built a second, "simulation" dyno like the Honda one in your video. I would have killed to have that in 1994. We ran a 24/7 program, where then engine guys would come in and rebuild a test engine overnight and dyno it at 5:00 AM. The car guys would come in at 6:00 AM, put it in the car (still hot from the dyno), and we would load it in the truck and leave for Nazareth by 9:00 AM. We'd test from 11:00 AM until 5:00 PM (earlier if it failed), be back at the shop at 7:00 PM, deliver the engine to the engine shop by 8:00 PM, and start the process all over again. After all was said and done, we went to Indy and ran the entire month without blowing up a single engine - not one. We have never done that, before or since.

Miklos is right - Smokey wasn't the only one these engines damn near killed. But, Holy Mother Of God, did that thing run! (The fact that there are TWO injectors per cylinder should give you a clue....)

Was that engine developed in Brixworth or just the testing?

I've worked with the bloke that ran the test bench.

Jeff

[Anchored]

A few more, and the Brabham it ran in.
Note, the engine was throttled from the compressor inlet.

Jeff

[Anchored]

more

[Anchored]

one more

[C_Spray]

Was that engine developed in Brixworth or just the testing?

I've worked with the bloke that ran the test bench.

Jeff
SpinTron testing and the initial development dyno runs were made in the UK. Once we started track-testing the engine in late February, I believe that we did all the dyno work over here in the Penske engine shop.
Some of it was scary - The dyno cell exhaust fans were marginal (designed to handle up to 800-900 hp), so during long power pulls enough fumes could build up that they would detonate and blow out all the ceiling tiles. There would be a big "whump" out in the car shops when that happened. The dyno guys' ears would pop like they were on a plane.

I'm with Uncle Dave - a 550 cubic inch version of that engine would probably make roughly 1,400 hp (at 9,800 rpm...) on methanol with no blower. :ack2: Don't know what it would do on gas; maybe 1,100-1,200??

The late Gary Garbrecht wanted to attack the 7-liter hydro record in the late 90's and asked about "borrowing" two of the engines, which would total 418 cubic inches. He would have had 1,960 hp to work with. Don't think anyone ever got that out of a 427 Chevy...

[MikeyFIN]

The 1986 BMW f-1 engine was an incredible piece capable of better than 1300 hp for short bursts during qualifying

Season: 1986

Capacity: 1,499 cc

Cylinders: 4-cylinder in line

Bhp: 900

RPM: 11200


Watched that thing run back at Silverstone back in the day

Seen that sucker run last a year ago...

[MikeyFIN]

The late Gary Garbrecht wanted to attack the 7-liter hydro record in the late 90's and asked about "borrowing" two of the engines, which would total 418 cubic inches. He would have had 1,960 hp to work with. Don't think anyone ever got that out of a 427 Chevy...

Well Actually Daytona Marines Scarab427 was at 600+ with a Turbo back in 66 and there has been 1800hp Streetcars with Turbos done by Monty Williams So In my opinion there´s not a substitute for cubic inches.

[wannabe]

Cspray- You obviously know a lot about the engines of that era. The Chevy/Ilmor engine that won the 1986 Indy 500, I know that Ilmor kept very tight track on the motors because they did not want GM getting their hands on one. I think this is why GM turned to Lotus to design the ZR1 motor with the DOHC and reverse cooling flow. They got Mercury to build the motors in Stillwater being low production. GM didn't have anywhere they could do it then. I remember watching a dyno run at my buddy's shop in Troy and spinning the engine to 7200 rpm. Chevy wanted 500 HP from the motor. The first twin turbo V8's my buddy built were the test mules. The Doug Nash 4+3 trannys broke with that power. GM gave the twin turbo contract to Callaway who could not keep the first batch from breaking. Basic stuff he missed.

Wannabe

[ILMORdude]

Look up Sharkeys slideshow of our place. The lobby has some serious history sitting in it and he captured some goods images of them.

[C_Spray]

Well Actually Daytona Marines Scarab427 was at 600+ with a Turbo back in 66 and there has been 1800hp Streetcars with Turbos done by Monty Williams So In my opinion there´s not a substitute for cubic inches.If they got 1800 hp out of 427 cubic inches, that's quite an accomplishment, but remember: These (209 ci) engines made 980 hp for over 3 hours and about 12 psi boost after only 3 months of track-testing, not 40 years of development.

Our projection for the 1995 season was between 1,100 and 1,200 hp at close to 11,000 rpm. The 1994 version was over-cammed. Horsepower was still rising dramatically with rpm, but the valve train would go unstable around 9900 rpm. The plan was to reduce the acceleration on the cam ramps to allow higher rpm. Most of the power would have come from that higher rpm. That's equivalent to 2,200 to 2,400 out of a 427. For 3 hours; not 7 seconds... :drool5:

Take a look at the intake ports in post #62. There's no way you can match the efficiency of those with a production-based engine.

[Anchored]

"Take a look at the intake ports in post #62. There's no way you can match the efficiency of those with a production-based engine."

This is the best I've found to date, SHO V6 Yamaha piece.


Jeff

[Uncle Dave]

"Take a look at the intake ports in post #62. There's no way you can match the efficiency of those with a production-based engine."

This is the best I've found to date, SHO V6 Yamaha piece.


Jeff

I had one of those in 93. Bought it brand new- awesome car.
I blew almost everything away at that time.

UD

[shifter]

(4) flat 12cyl Motori Moderni (Carlo Chitti's F1 engine) 2.9 ltr twin supercharged originally then twin turbo, 1250hp each. (4) 2-speed weismann boxes ,(4) shaft drives (Atzori)

1988/89 with Edardo Polli SDA. 144 mph 1st test.

10 speeds are easy. There are 6 speeds x2 in this boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5srCLGCuE

pat W:sifone:

[Powerabout]

be wary of big horsepower number along with a big rpm...
remember
(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

one F1 team last year or so, set up a car for a top speed run on the salt.
I think it ony did about 250ish mph... rice power
A Nascar with a big carb will do that...grunt

so if you can make ( only) 300ftlbs of torque at 20,000rpm you have 1000hp

[TrippM]

be wary of big horsepower number along with a big rpm...
remember
(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

one F1 team last year or so, set up a car for a top speed run on the salt.
I think it ony did about 250ish mph... rice power
A Nascar with a big carb will do that...grunt

so if you can make ( only) 300ftlbs of torque at 20,000rpm you have 1000hp

The speed of the open wheel car vs the nascar is more a result of aerodynamics and built in downforce than it is power. I remember when one of the motoring mags had a top speed shootout between a Porsche 956, a nascar Chevrolet and an Indy car. The Chevrolet had the highest top end because of the lack of downforce and reduced drag of the body even though it had a slight horsepower disadvantage.

[Powerabout]

The speed of the open wheel car vs the nascar is more a result of aerodynamics and built in downforce than it is power. I remember when one of the motoring mags had a top speed shootout between a Porsche 956, a nascar Chevrolet and an Indy car. The Chevrolet had the highest top end because of the lack of downforce and reduced drag of the body even though it had a slight horsepower disadvantage.
Yer right
It was Hotrod.

[Anchored]

(4) flat 12cyl Motori Moderni (Carlo Chitti's F1 engine) 2.9 ltr twin supercharged originally then twin turbo, 1250hp each. (4) 2-speed weismann boxes ,(4) shaft drives (Atzori)

1988/89 with Edardo Polli SDA. 144 mph 1st test.

10 speeds are easy. There are 6 speeds x2 in this boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5srCLGCuE

pat W:sifone:

I like this place.

[Anchored]

More

Jeff

[C_Spray]

be wary of big horsepower number along with a big rpm...
remember
(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

one F1 team last year or so, set up a car for a top speed run on the salt.
I think it ony did about 250ish mph... rice power
A Nascar with a big carb will do that...grunt

so if you can make ( only) 300ftlbs of torque at 20,000rpm you have 1000hp
Not at all. Horsepower is horsepower when it comes to top speed. As others have noted, the downforce generated by an F1 car carries a big price in drag, plus exposed rotating tires are far, far worse than enclosed wheels. That's why no unlimited land speed record car has run with exposed tires. Even Craig Breedlove covered the rear wheels of his 1963 Spirit of America with spats.

By the way, Emerson Fittipaldi ran one of our cars up to 252 mph with the 1994 pushrod engine. On the track at Indy without a 3-mile run-up.

300 ft-lbs @ 20,000 rpm is closer to 1142.857 hp.

[Wobble]

Not at all. Horsepower is horsepower when it comes to top speed. As others have noted, the downforce generated by an F1 car carries a big price in drag, plus exposed rotating tires are far, far worse than enclosed wheels. That's why no unlimited land speed record car has run with exposed tires. Even Craig Breedlove covered the rear wheels of his 1963 Spirit of America with spats.

By the way, Emerson Fittipaldi ran one of our cars up to 252 mph with the 1994 pushrod engine. On the track at Indy without a 3-mile run-up.

300 ft-lbs @ 20,000 rpm is closer to 1142.857 hp.

18000 rpm is the current limit. Honda ran a car in legal F1 configuration in 2006

A Honda Formula One car, running with minimum downforce on a runway in the Mojave desert achieved a top speed of 415 km/h (258 mph) in 2006. According to Honda the car fully met the FIA Formula One regulations.[71] Even with the limitations on aerodynamics, at 160 km/h (99 mph) aerodynamically generated downforce is equal to the weight of the car, and the oft-repeated claim that Formula One cars create enough downforce to "drive on the ceiling", while possible in principle, has never been put to the test. Downforce of 2.5 times the car's weight can be achieved at full speed. The downforce means that the cars can achieve a lateral force with a magnitude of up to 3.5 times that of the force of gravity (3.5g) in cornering.[

[Powerabout]

I always wondered why the industry used HP and rpm when torque at an rpm means much more
I could transmit 1000hp through my pencil if I could turn it fast enough...
but that 1000hp wouldn't get a boat on the plane

[Anchored]

(4) flat 12cyl Motori Moderni (Carlo Chitti's F1 engine) 2.9 ltr twin supercharged originally then twin turbo, 1250hp each. (4) 2-speed weismann boxes ,(4) shaft drives (Atzori)

1988/89 with Edardo Polli SDA. 144 mph 1st test.

10 speeds are easy. There are 6 speeds x2 in this boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5srCLGCuE

pat W:sifone:

This probably the only instance where an F1 engine has made it into marine use.

Jeff

[Anchored]

A few Renault engines,

Jeff

[shifter]

When SDA was all running right she was awesome........It would be cool to see that set-up in a modern boat.

pat W:sifone:

[MikeyFIN]

The only one I have ever been to was the Indianapolis race in 2006 where all the Michelin clad cars protested and pulled into the pits at the end of the parade lap, leaving only 6 cars to run - HAHA. Wish I had that money back.

The sound of those things running is amazing but watching them slow down is UNREAL.

They would make a horrible boat application for any practical purpose. If they sit for more than about 20 seconds they often times end up disintegrating within a few minutes. They don't handle not being able to dissapate heat, that's why the radiators ducts are packed with dry ice, and fans are run over them if they have to sit for ANY length of time anywhere.

We have some guys running silhuette racers with BMW/Megatron F1- turbo era engines... they can idle if you increase the radiator size-...same goes for every racecar as they don´t carry fans.

As a Boat application It´s been done... the Alfa Romeo 3.0 flat-12 which became the Motori Moderni Subaru engine was used as Turbocharged in Class1 back in the day.
I have a lead of those Class1 engines unused still in crates.

OOPS seems Pat beat me to it :)

[MikeyFIN]

This probably the only instance where an F1 engine has made it into marine use.

Jeff

Nope..Ferrari Engines have also been used in the early 60´s

[MikeyFIN]

Take a look at the intake ports in post #62. There's no way you can match the efficiency of those with a production-based engine.

Well I´ve had a better flowing head in my hands and I´m not talking about ladies..

from a production based engine but they are multivalved...

Are we talking pushrods only or production engines in general ?

Enter Honda...

[MikeyFIN]

"Take a look at the intake ports in post #62. There's no way you can match the efficiency of those with a production-based engine."

This is the best I've found to date, SHO V6 Yamaha piece.


Jeff

Gotta say doesn´t impress me yet...
A Yamaha designed 5-valve head you can see the tops of the pistons when the valves are open.
Yes I had a Superbike with that engine...

[MikeyFIN]

That 917-30 was an umbelievable car. It weighed 1800 and change. The engine set to endurance-racing boost was 1200 hp. He could dial up the wastegate from the cockpit and get 1500+ out of it. Which he did if he had trouble getting past someone. He won every race in '73. Since canAm was set up basically to be a no-rules class, they imposed fuel consumption rules in '74 so that everyone else wouldn't give up and go home.

A Friend and a good friends dad and Icon to me raced the last Interseries race with a 917-30 Martini car after he run out of money in F1 as an own team and lapped everybody and put some serious hurt on his competitors...

Well he had won the series 3 times in a row 71-73 so didn´t come as a surprise and did the 1970 season for John Wyer in a Gulf Porsche 917K with a mexican...
Tried to save the mexicans life 1971 from a burning Ferrari 512S at Norisring but could only watch his former teammate burn in the seat from a few yards...

the 917´s...whatta program I still have original receipts and stuff of one of the teams involved in the development.

The former team owner and the driver both live less than 20 miles from me and all the crew members.

[Dude! Sweet!]

By the way, Emerson Fittipaldi ran one of our cars up to 252 mph with the 1994 pushrod engine. On the track at Indy without a 3-mile run-up.



Chuck, I know I could look it up, but in the interest of keeping the conversation up, didn't DeFerran set some sort of speed record in one of your cars at Cal Speedway in 1998ish?

And not to kissass, but Pat, man you've always go the coolest photos! Keep 'em coming bud!

[C_Spray]

Well I´ve had a better flowing head in my hands and I´m not talking about ladies..

from a production based engine but they are multivalved...

Are we talking pushrods only or production engines in general ?

Enter Honda... I was referring to any 2-valve pushrod engine. Multivalve engines are inherently better: more breathing area.

Dude - Yes. Gil ran 240+ for the lap at California Speedway, a much faster track than Indy (and on far better tires than we had in 1994...). That (final) version of the turbocharged CART Honda engine was right at 1,000 hp, but it made the power by turning 15,000 rpm.

The impressive thing about Emmo's 252 trap speed is that he came off of Turn 2 at less than 220, and gained 30+ mph in about 6 seconds.

[HaxbySpeed]

I could transmit 1000hp through my pencil if I could turn it fast enough... but that 1000hp wouldn't get a boat on the plane

You just need to call Pat and get him to make a transmission for your pencil... Then it'll plane. :sifone:

[Dude! Sweet!]

I was referring to any 2-valve pushrod engine. Multivalve engines are inherently better: more breathing area.

Dude - Yes. Gil ran 240+ for the lap at California Speedway, a much faster track than Indy (and on far better tires than we had in 1994...). That (final) version of the turbocharged CART Honda engine was right at 1,000 hp, but it made the power by turning 15,000 rpm.

The impressive thing about Emmo's 252 trap speed is that he came off of Turn 2 at less than 220, and gained 30+ mph in about 6 seconds.

I finally took the Museum track tour at Indy last year. Chuck, I know that you're all too familiar with how narrow that track is, but for any of the guys on here who've never been there, all I can say is Holy Sh*t is that place a death trap. The guys who run that fast at that place have nuts the size of grapefruit. Standing on the track made the hair on my neck stand on end...

[ILMORdude]

We had our xmas party last night and the Big man, Mario Illien, came over to party with us! Its cool to hang with him.

[MikeyFIN]

I finally took the Museum track tour at Indy last year. Chuck, I know that you're all too familiar with how narrow that track is, but for any of the guys on here who've never been there, all I can say is Holy Sh*t is that place a death trap. The guys who run that fast at that place have nuts the size of grapefruit. Standing on the track made the hair on my neck stand on end...


I was there 1984 and IMO it´s not that narrow compared to other tracks around the world. True deathtraps are Targa Florio, Nurburgring, Monza, Imola etc etc...

[MikeyFIN]

We had our xmas party last night and the Big man, Mario Illien, came over to party with us! Its cool to hang with him.


Show your tongue ;)

On a serious note..hows business ? need help ?

[C_Spray]

We had our xmas party last night and the Big man, Mario Illien, came over to party with us! Its cool to hang with him.Did he share any stories of his days as a tank commander in the Swiss Army?

[shifter]

Dude, I am glad you like them.

We used the same engine in a supercar in 1989 also......One off the second one had a Judd v10.

We can always use an Offy for old time sake. This one ran 258 at bonneville.:sifone: 1500hp......:sifone:

pat W

[Anchored]

Toyota F1 exhaust bits from the Toyota store on the Champs-Élysées.

Jeff

[Anchored]

Renault exhaust from Indy 2006

Jeff

[Anchored]

Only a few more weeks 'til Bahrain! I'm excited to see how the new teams will fall into place. Hopefully they'll let the Serbian team on the grid.

Has anyone been catching the DTM,BTCC and Aussie V8 Supercars on the Speed Channel?

Jeff