Pulled over by the police and searched for drugs - long but looking for opinions

[insanity]

So I got pulled over tonight for having expired tags, I knew they were expired but tried to chance it until I could get to BMV tomorrow to get them renewed as I have been out of town for work and when I do get home its usually late in the evening. I live in Brunswick Hills, just west of Brunswick, OH municipality. I try to avoid going through Brunswick at all cost to get to the highway as there are too many lights along the main drag and people just poke along, but tonight made the mistake of going that way. When I got to my destination I tried to recall the events and make my own record of them, as I feel I was wrongly accused and detained. There seem to be a lot of educated people on this board so I wanted to get a few opinions. I know its long but please give it a look and leave me some feedback, Thanks!


On or about 10:15 pm on 01/09/09 I stopped at the Marathon gas station on St. Rte. 303 in Brunswick, OH to get gas before I continued on to Toledo, OH.

I began fueling and walked into the store to get a soda for the ride over to Toledo. As I exited the store I noticed a Brunswick Police Department Expedition sitting in the southeast corner of the gas station parking lot. I entered my vehicle and began to proceed on my way but suspected the officer was waiting for me to leave so he could pull me over. I was aware the tags on my truck were expired, unfortunately I have been out of town for work and the holidays since they expired and had not been able to renew them. I had planned on doing it first thing Saturday (01/10/09) morning, and was hesitant to drive the truck but due to the inclement weather opted to take the truck over my car. I proceeded to exit the Marathon gas station, which the officer immediately began to follow me. I turned to head eastbound on St. Rte. 303 toward the I-71 North on-ramp when the officer put his lights on to pull me over, to which I pulled over to the right side of the on-ramp. The officer came up to my window, I politely asked him what the problem was to which the officer answered he pulled me over because my plates were expired and had been since December 15th 2008, clearly the officer had ran my plates while I was in the store at the gas station and I wasn't surprised. I explained to the officer I was aware my tags were expired and I planned to take care of it first thing in the morning as I had been out of town for work and unfortunately did not make it back in time this afternoon to renew them due to inclement weather the entire way home. The officer then asked for my license and proof of insurance, I handed the officer my license and stated that my current insurance card was in my backpack in the backseat and asked the officer if he would like me to retrieve it. He began to shine his flashlight through my rear driver side window which I then cooperatively rolled down said window so he could get a better look as the rear windows in my vehicle are factory tinted. The officer then replied that it wouldn't be necessary and he would be back in a few minutes.

I began to get somewhat concerned as it seemed officer #49 was taking an unusually long amount of time in writing what I thought would be a simple citation for expired tags. Approximately 10 minutes later Officer #49 approached my vehicle again, this time he was accompanied by a K-9 officer. The officers asked me to roll up my window, shut of my vehicle and exit the vehicle. As I exited the vehicle I asked the officers if there was a problem. The officers' response was 'Please sir exit the vehicle and move to the back of the vehicle'. The next thing the officers asked if I had any weapons or narcotics on my person or in the vehicle. I replied 'No officer I do not'. The officers again asked if I had any weapons or narcotics on my person or in my vehicle to which I replied 'No officer I do not' and again I asked the officers if there was a problem to which the response from officer #49 was 'Please sir come to the back of the vehicle so I can pat you down for weapons'. I proceeded to the back of my vehicle, Officer #49 began to restrain me as K-9 Officer continued to question me as to if I had any drugs or paraphernalia in my vehicle. Officer K-9 stated that if I did have any drugs or paraphernalia in my vehicle that it was better to just admit to it before he brought out his dog to search my vehicle and possibly scratch the outside paint as the dog would jump on the vehicle and possibly be turned loose inside my vehicle. As officer K-9 was questioning me officer #49 continued to frisk my person with my arms restrained behind my back, while officer #49 was frisking me I was somewhat distracted as officer K-9 began stating that since my vehicle was on a public street, it was public domain and thus not exempt from search, or something along those lines. It seemed the two officers were intentionally distracting me as officer K-9 was asking me questions, while officer #49 was telling me to put my hands behind my back and restraining me. I was attempting to oblige both officers when officer #49 stated for me to loosen up, I was in no way attempting to resist and had my hands behind my back which officer #49 had complete control over. I was then questioned again by officer K-9 as to if I wanted to admit to having drugs in my vehicle or have the dog conduct a search. I believe my response to the officer was 'Feel free to have the dog give a look' or something along those lines.

At this point officer K-9 brought his dog from his vehicle and proceeded to walk the dog around my vehicle. The officer and his dog made one complete lap around the vehicle, the continued on a second lap at which point the officer and his dog stopped along my passenger side door, which was in the dark due to the way the vehicles were parked. Officer K-9 was paused there for several seconds (again this was the second lap) and then I saw the dog jump against the side of my truck, several seconds after that officer K-9 then returned the dog to his vehicle. When officer K-9 returned he stated that since the dog had stopped along that door that the officers would proceed to search the inside of my vehicle themselves. The officers spent approximately 15 minutes searching the inside of my vehicle, officer #49 on the passenger side, officer K-9 on the driver side. The officers had all 4 doors open and from what I could see from the front of officer #49's vehicle where I was instructed to stand, proceeded to search through every door pocket, glove box, sun visor, my laptop bag and my clothes bag. Officer K-9 finished his search first and returned to the front of officer #49's Expedition where I was standing. Officer K-9 stated that he should turn the dog loose inside my vehicle since he stopped at the passenger side door but he would not since the ground was snowy/slushy. At this point officer #49 was still in the passenger side of my vehicle searching though its contents. Officer K-9 asked me about the magazine pieces I had in my vehicle, at first I thought the officer was referring to a paper magazine of some sort, I had forgotten that I had two empty ar-15 magazines in my clothes bag (which the officers found during their search and relocated to my center console). Officer K-9 then clarified that he was referring to two empty ar-15 magazines they discovered during their search. I stated that I did own an ar-15, but was obviously not in my vehicle since the officers had just thoroughly searched it. Officer K-9 then asked me where I was going to which I responded 'to Toledo, for a family event, I had just gotten back into town a little bit ago from working out of state'. Officer K-9 then asked if I had been driving the GMC Sierra to which I replied no I had been driving my car. At this point officer #49 finished his search and proceeded back to the front of his vehicle, where he stomped the ground to remove the snow/slush from his boots and thus splashed snow/slush all over my shoes and pants.

At this point, after the officers conducted their search and did NOT find any narcotics/paraphernalia, I was instructed to re-enter my vehicle and await my citation for the expired tags. Several minutes later officer #49 returned with my citation and explained the charges and stated I would have to show proof of insurance if I was to pay the waiver. I again stated to officer #49 that I had my insurance card in my backpack, (the backpack that he had just searched and moved from the backseat of my truck to the front seat, thus all of the compartments were open on it) and would be happy to show it to him. Officer #49 declined to allow me to show him my proof of insurance and stated I was to bring it to the courthouse. I was then allowed to continue on my way and this was the conclusion the my encounter with officer #49 and officer K-9.

My main concern in all of this is that when I politely asked the officers if there was a problem several times and why they felt they needed to search my vehicle, the question was never answered. The initial cause for suspicion was never given to me. The only responses I got were along the lines that they had full right to search my vehicle if they wanted and that if I had something to hide that I should just admit it before the dog was turned loose on it. From what I could see at the front of officer #49's vehicle they did their darned to look through my truck hoping to find some sort of contraband and appeared to be somewhat perturbed when they returned and came up empty. Unfortunately it seems that officer K-9's initial misleading statement about my vehicle being on public domain caused me to give up what I believe to be my 4th amendment rights against illegal search and seizure.

[insanity]

If I wanted of copy of the police report the officers submitted would I be able to get it via the Freedom of Information Act? Surely they would have to make a report since they brought drug-sniffing K-9 out correct? Any way I could get a copy of the officer's dash camera videotape without a court order of some kind? Like I said if it was just the citation for the expired tags, fair enough I'll pay it but to go through all of this is ridiculous.

I mean seriously, if I knew my tags were expired wtf would I be doing hauling around a bunch of drugs?? I don't even know where the hell to buy pot!!!!!! ARRRRGGGHHH!!!!

[masher44]

Random ass holes. They maybe got a tip that soMe chit was being moved and you were unlucky

[DonMan]

Wow, I`m just glad that didn`t happen to me . . . :auto:

[insanity]

Wow, I`m just glad that didn`t happen to me . . . :auto:


LoL! Thanks for the help.

What I forgot to mention was that while officer #49 was restraining me officer K-9 was attempting to state that since my vehicle was on public property, it was public domain and thus I had no right to refuse search. The officers did a great job of playing off each other and distracting me.


*NOTE* - edited above

[99fever27]

Don't try to "chance" it with expired tags. I don't know if they were in the right or wrong..but sounds like they were sniffing. If your truck was legal it probably wouldn't have happened. I don't think you have a case that you seem to be looking for.

[Offshoredrillin]

What is that area like? You being an adult black male, do you feel that it was profiling? Also the truck, is the same one you tow the hustler with? I would get a copy and file just to make it uncomfortable for them as they did for you. I would expect to have a day in court. the named matched the registration, and you had insurance proof with you, he chose not to look at it then cite you for it. for me thats grounds enough to take it further.
I would also be leary of the "public domain" search..where was the reasonable cause?

[jayboat]

Doesn't the expired tag give them reasonable cause? Besides, they got the badges and the guns...

Write it off to experience- you can't fight city hall.

[Buoy]

Sure makes me glad I finally got the Title for my truck this week, and finally have legal plates on it.

[Offshoredrillin]

Doesn't the expired tag give them reasonable cause? Besides, they got the badges and the guns...

Write it off to experience- you can't fight city hall.
To me, yes and no, yes it is to pull you over, after he explained it and they ran it and saw that he owned the truck, why push it from there? I've seen pics of him, he doesn't look menacing, and from his version of it he was more than polite. he accepted the fact that he was in the wrong and dint try to deny it. Why other than trying to F with him, would they search?
now here is my scolding for him.:)...register it online, it only takes a couple minutes and they will mail it to ya, every state does it now, including the peoples republic of ohio, once you register online and click ok, it prints you out a temp reg until the stickers arrive.

https://www.oplates.com/Renewal_begin.asp

[jayboat]

Yeah, I agree with you- that's how people in the normal world would view it. But...

cops don't live in a normal world. Plus, I think the attitude is more like, once they have gone to the trouble of pulling you over, they gotta do the whole routine. Just my .02.

[boatme]

sounds like a lot of hassle but lets face it you knew your were driving with expired tags so all the excusses dont matter realy, the fact is you were expired

That opend the door for them to create the ensuing nightmare for you

Sounds like they went over board but the door was left open for them to search u have nor real complaint

What a pain in the tail for you sorry to hear it

the lesson here is "drive the car untill the plates are renewed" good luck

[Chris]

There are alot of different elements to this scenario that most likely led to your experience. Your vehicle and its appearance may have set off some red flags. The expired plates didn't help. Your own appearance may have also set off some triggers with them. As far as the search, the dope dog is to establish another layer of probable cause. Even if the dog didn't "hit" they can say it did if they have suspicion and it does lead to an arrest and charges. It keeps your lawyer from getting the charges tossed. It didn't used to be that way- they looked- you went to jail. Thank the ACLU and their protection of dope dealers for them having to keep a unit with a dope sniffing dog around and delaying your process. They don't need the dog to search your vehicle- it isn't protected like your home might be. The fact that it's on public property vs. private has no bearing whatsoever.

Under the law, the officer has no obligation to communicate to you why you were stopped or being investigated. They're not going to tell you "you look like a dope dealer or some other criminal..." and trigger your fight-or-flight response. They don't want to chase you or fight you unnecessarily. The tag issue was plenty of probable cause and the only profiling they're technically prohibited from applying is racial.

I don't have any clue what you were driving or how your own appearance comes across, but my guess is it set off a flag for them. I'd be surprised to hear that you're a mid-40's clean-cut businessman looking guy driving a fairly new Camry. Not that there's anything in the world wrong with any other appearance, but statistically speaking that's not the profile of the guy that typically is going to be up to something. Back to your detention, I'm guessing they turned you around and held your thumbs while they gave you a quick pat. Then one officer stood fairly close to you while the other did his look around. That's because they want to make sure you aren't armed and that if they do hit, one of them wil be able to snatch you when you bolt or prevent you from going for one of their weapons.

I know the Brunswick guys- I live about 45 minutes away. I've taught classes there. Brunswick is nothing more than a typical middle-class community in the suburbs of a big city (Cleveland) They have a major interstate running through the community which adds to their LE challenges. They're not really a speed-trap city. They do take seriously the protection of their citizens. People complain about cops sitting around and writing tickets and eating donuts- this is an example of them working their best to spot real bad guys. Not all of these sorts of stops yield a felony arrest, but the one's that do certainly help to protect the citizens of their communities. If you were a Brunswick homeowner in his late 40's with a couple of teenagers, you'd be pleased with these guys.

As far as the tags, Ohio mails a notice 6 weeks before expiration. You can mail a check and renew. Or you can go to www.oplates.com and do it instantly on line.

[Davidmnc]

the lesson here is "drive the car untill the plates are renewed" good luck

:huh: how about DON'T drive the car untill the plates are renewed? :sifone:

[Bgchuby01]

as most of you know I drive around this country every day. I see police stop and search vehicles all the time. Sometimes its one or two guys that look like they should be searched and other times its families. To me is sounds and looks like they used you for a training exercise. I have been pulled over and searched many times and once in houston they claim the dog got a hit on my right front door.. I told the cop to not lie and just say they want to look instead of lying and saying the dog got a hit. I told them the only thing the dog could of smelled was asprin or viverian. I was on the side of the I-45 for 6 hours north of houston before they finally left me. But I have to say the cops were polite. I was on the side of the road because of a flat tire on the boat trailer and then a fuel tank on my truck dropped 30 gallons of fuel on their pristine ashphalt.

[Chris]

I would also be leary of the "public domain" search..where was the reasonable cause?

The Supreme Court has ruled that an automobile is entitled to no search and seizure protections. Where it is has no bearing. Probable cause for the stop was the expired tag. The dog sniff was the second.

Another example is DUI checkpoints. The only probable cause present there is the fact that you're operating a vehicle. Yet the Supreme Court has ruled that they are constitutional.

[Chris]

One last thing- if the officers were really hard-asses, they could have arrested you and impouned your vehicle, based on the expired tags. A quick search vs. a night in jail and a tow/impound cost is a pretty decent trade.

[boatme]

:huh: how about DON'T drive the car untill the plates are renewed? :sifone:

The Cars plates WERE renewed

it was his truck that were expired my point is he should have been driving his CAR

[Bgchuby01]

its at the officers descrestion here in calif also to be able to impound the car depending on how long the plates have been out of date. most CHP will let you slide for 30 days. but if your plates are 6 month or more you will get towed

[Davidmnc]

The Cars plates WERE renewed

it was his truck that were expired my point is he should have been driving his CAR

Oh yea...............:leaving:

[Bgchuby01]

I don't know about ohio but here there are besides Offical DMV offices you have private stores that do DMV duties where you pay the normal fee's and since they are private you pay a service fee of about 25.00. For that 25.00 you have NO LINES to wait for and can be in and out in 10 minuites. I would think that ohio may have the same thing to offer

[insanity]

What is that area like? You being an adult black male, do you feel that it was profiling? Also the truck, is the same one you tow the hustler with? I would get a copy and file just to make it uncomfortable for them as they did for you. I would expect to have a day in court. the named matched the registration, and you had insurance proof with you, he chose not to look at it then cite you for it. for me thats grounds enough to take it further.
I would also be leary of the "public domain" search..where was the reasonable cause?

I'm not the same insanity for OSO, I go by c_deezy over there. Me, I'm 28 years old and white, living in a town that is 96% white.

[Bgchuby01]

then you should not drive with black face on :sifone:

[insanity]

I take full responsibility for driving my truck with the expired tags, I gambled and got busted so be it. I haven't even seen the truck since Thanksgiving, and among family stuff, traveling for work and the holidays hadn't had a chance to renew it. I'm still used to the old days when you had to bring in the old regisration to get the new one. Hell I just went to renew it and couldn't even find the old one and just went in and asked the lady and she said 'No problem', pulled it up on the computer and printed it out. If would have known that I would have done it when I did my car and other truck. As far as appearance I'm 28, white and was driving my 2007 GMC Sierra HD, 5'10" and about 200 lbs (I need to get my fatass to the gym). I'm not the insanity342 guy over on OSO. I don't mind taking the hit for the tags, but felt the drug-dog and the search was excessive. I'm not looking for a case here, but really had no clue what to do in the situation as I had never been through it before. It will just get chalked up to experience and another reason I hate living around this town and can't wait until my lease is up and I can move on. Having to helplessly watch somebody root through my personal belongings just hit a raw nerve not to mention having to smile and eat **** from the small-town cop with attitude.

[Ratickle]

Hell, one time I had the cops pull guns on me and put me through the real bad routine. Come to find out when they were all done, a guy fitting my description had robbed a bank about two miles from where I was at. They never said a word about why until all done.

[boatme]

then you should not drive with black face on :sifone:


Now that is funny no matter what race you are LOL:sifone:

[boatme]

Hell, one time I had the cops pull guns on me and put me through the real bad routine. Come to find out when they were all done, a guy fitting my description had robbed a bank about two miles from where I was at. They never said a word about why until all done.


Look in the mirrior you will see why you got stopped U one UGLy dude LOL

[Ratickle]

Look in the mirrior you will see why you got stopped U one UGLy dude LOL

But I was wearing my Marc mask.:sifone:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

When I was a teenager coming back from Ft lauderdale Spring break in a 4 door Chevy Caprice (very clean condition) I was stopped on the way home in Delaware.

My infraction was changing lanes without signalling.

The fact that my car was riding low in the back is what they were suspicious of, especially coming back from Florida. :sifone:

At all times I was extremely polite.

They had asked me to take a seat in the back of their car at which of course then I was locked in. At that time they started asking questions. Very similar to what was stated above.

They asked why the car was sitting so low. I told them I just went down to Florida with a bunch of friends who all had high-lifted 4X4 Off Road vehicles.

They were known to always have breakdowns and being as I had a 1.5 ton floor jack, I through it in my trunk for the trip.

That and my luggage was all that was in the car.

They were suspicious and then asked my permission if they could search the vehicle. I told them I had nothing to hide go right ahead.

I did not expect a 1/2 hour search where they went through the engine compartment, removed my seats from the car and tossed them to the side of the road. I felt once they popped the trunk and saw the jack, they would have felt I was being honest.

Once I saw the seats out, now I had become more concerned. I was worried that if I had ran into some bad cops that might try to plant something on me... :ack2:

Fortunately that did not happen. They came back to the car and handed me my keys and told me to use my turn signals when changing lanes.

They then left me there on the side of the highway to put my car back together....

I wonder how they would have felt had someone crashed into me and killing me while trying to put the seats back in my car.

I felt the least they could have done was stuck behind me with their lights on until the car was driveable again.... :(

[Bobcat]

well, you do have a "black" thunder, it was profiling:)

[runninhotracing]

:huh: how about DON'T drive the car untill the plates are renewed? :sifone:


:rofl: how about DON'T drive the car untill the plates are renewed?

And you could'nt talk your way out of it ????







ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:26:
BUT THEY DYNO'D IN CALIFIORNIA AT 1200S

[insanity]

:rofl: how about DON'T drive the car untill the plates are renewed?

And you could'nt talk your way out of it ????



Small town cops my man, not even the story about me going to see my cousins mom who is on her death bed (which is true, she is) worked. These guys were some real *****s, the K-9 guy wasn't as bad as the other ***** with a total Napoleon complex.

I got nailed by OHP about two months ago doing 79 in a 65 when I was on my to see my grandpa who was on his deathbed and pretty much hours away from going. On a sunday afternoon, not another car on the road and they were doing LIDAR from the air. Didn't get out of that one either. Its been a bad few months for relatives dieing and run-ins with the fuzz :(

[Buoy]

I was waiting for something similar to happen to me, see the thread "My truck is finally legal".
I bought the truck August 1, and didn't receive the title until last week. I was driving on fictitious plates for 4 1/2 months. Always made me nervous.

About 10 yrs ago (I was about your age), I was driving from Toledo back to Pittsburgh on a Sunday on I80/90. Big ole 4x4 Dually with a huge HD sticker on the rear window, and a ladder rack - couldn't miss the truck. Coming home from visiting my daughter, and I was humming down the road in the mid-80mph range.
Got stopped, and was told it was a $570 cash bond - I didn't have that kind of CASH, Green, on me, and the ATM will only allow $300 withdrawal in one day.
I spent the night in the Pokey, I'm not talking the local in Struthers jail, I mean the county lock-up.
I got processed in with about 6 other guys, and I'm the only white-boy in the "pod". When the other guys got in, it was like a family reunion with the group that was already there.
My wife (GF at the time) had to drive my truck to the 'burgh with our 2 dogs, and barely enough money to pay the turnpike tolls.
She had to hire an atty, and come back the next day for me to go to court - wearing prison orange and jail sandals.
I was standing in front of the judge, cuffed behind my back, and he said
Speeding, 81 in a 65 - why are you here??
$200 or so to get out of the mess, and then transport back to the Pokey and wait for 5 hrs before they released me.

In comparison, I see your detention as just a general hassle.
But I do feel your pain - it could have been much worse.

[Ratickle]

well, you do have a "black" thunder, it was profiling:)

Next time I'll sue.:):)

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Hell, one time I had the cops pull guns on me and put me through the real bad routine.

I had that happen as well but in my Bullet 130...

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p838189301.jpg

Someone called about me speeding. No surprise there.

This would have been my 6th stop in the 6th time I had the boat out that season.

I was out in my full race gear w/ helmut while making a video inside the channel that was not speed restricted.

I was pulled over near the ramp I was using while I was idling towards it.

They apparently were trying to stop me a few times but I never heard their sirens having a helmut on and my engine screaming at 7,000 rpms.

Both officers had their guns drawn on me and asked me to shut the engine off and put the keys on the dash. Well I offered to shut it off and take the keys out but not leave them on the dash for they would easily fall into the water.

They asked what I was doing for they had a report of my boat's description driving fast. I asked if the channel behind them had a speed restriction and they said no. In that case then I was not speeding. However I explained to them I was making a video. I asked them to have a look over at the ramp where my buddy was still video taping me and offered to bring it down to the station for them and their superiors to view it. Suddenly both officers put their guns back in their holsters and I asked if the person that called wanted to file a complaint against me. They said no they did not want to file a complaint. They proceeded with a full inspection in the matter of 15 seconds as I went down the checklist real quick and showed them I had everything.
I should have everything as this was my 6th time being stopped for a called in complaint and never issued any tickets. I asked when does it start to become harrassment ?

Funny thing is, I have never been stopped since that day and have a great relationship with the local police dept to this day. :)

[bajacleveland]

Must of been a slow day in Brunstucky.

[Sea-Dated]

Sounds like you were jus tin the wrong place at the wrong time. There might have been a call to look for a truck similar to yours suspected of running drugs or something like that.

Chalk it up to a lesson learned....

[inbetween]

I don't know about ohio but here there are besides Offical DMV offices you have private stores that do DMV duties where you pay the normal fee's and since they are private you pay a service fee of about 25.00. For that 25.00 you have NO LINES to wait for and can be in and out in 10 minuites. I would think that ohio may have the same thing to offer

I don't think Ohio has the private stores, only state agency locations. There are multiple locations per county. As mentioned before, you can do it online or through the mail. You don't even have to leave your house unless you need an emission check. oplates.com is available 24 hours a day.

[Madpoodle]

Yup, lesson learned, time to move along...

[Expensive Date]

My knowledge of law is NY but its probably the same they could have impounded your vehicle the done an inventory search and vouchered everything separately for safe keeping.Of course any thing found illegal you would be charged with.Were they overkill maybe but you never know, I have been on the other side and its a difficult call sometimes.Were you searched because of your race probably is it right no but it happens.
Here is were it gets "grey" if they were holding your hands behind your back you were technically arrested can you be arrested for a DMV infraction in Ohio?? Other than DWI the only one you could be arrested for in NY was driving with or revoked license.I would probably let it go though cops stick together and if you push it you will be getting pulled over to have your tire tread depth measured.There have been a few cops that I wanted to tell them that they would not last one night in Brooklyn North but I held my tongue you are not going to win sorry.

[phragle]

police jargon.. you got hit with a "PC" stop, probable cause. expired tags, license plate light out, air freshener hanging from the rear view mirrior etc. it happens all the time. hell, I got hauled out of my old work truck at gunpoint. went thru the fallbrook checkpoint in a box truck, went about a mile further and noticed somebody was sitting on my back bumper, all I could see was a shadow in the mirror, used turn signal and changed lanes, still being tailgated. got off 15 @ winchester.. stoped, 1st car at a red light wit turn signal on. Next thing I now there are 4 border patrol agents, 1 at each door and 2 in front of the truck, guns drawn. they are screaming at me to not move, put my hands of the roof, put my hands on the steering wheel. I was like "figure what the f you want me to do, and I will do it. they pulled the door open, threw me on the ground cuffed me and were screaming "why were you running from us, we were trying to pull you over for 5 miles". Running from you?? I was doing 55 in a friggin Hino, I used my turn signal, I stoped first vehicle at a red light... running from you?? If you hadnt been 6 inches off my tailgate I might have been able to see your lights. tey spent 2 hours ripping the truck apart, ripping open every package, calling my boss, there superviser showed up... they had me in the back of a bp car cuffed, while at least 5 different bp agents climbed in at different times all asking me why I ran, then the chp showed up, he got in the car and asked why I ran... I told him the story.. he said "these guys do get a bit carried away" they finally just let me go, after they had pretty much turned about 15 customers orders into a jigsaw puzzle. nothing like overzealous wanna be badass cops pointing multiple guns at you and screaming incoherently.

[99fever27]

I just respect the law. Never once have I had a problem. Maybe my time is coming though? I think it is great to have them out there, right wrong or indifferent they save lives. I would be pissed however trying to reassemble my car on the side of the highway.

[Chris]

My knowledge of law is NY but its probably the same they could have impounded your vehicle the done an inventory search and vouchered everything separately for safe keeping.Of course any thing found illegal you would be charged with.Were they overkill maybe but you never know, I have been on the other side and its a difficult call sometimes.Were you searched because of your race probably is it right no but it happens.
Here is were it gets "grey" if they were holding your hands behind your back you were technically arrested can you be arrested for a DMV infraction in Ohio?? Other than DWI the only one you could be arrested for in NY was driving with or revoked license.I would probably let it go though cops stick together and if you push it you will be getting pulled over to have your tire tread depth measured.There have been a few cops that I wanted to tell them that they would not last one night in Brooklyn North but I held my tongue you are not going to win sorry.

Both of those actions have been affirmed in Supreme court decisions. According to the Court, ANY probable cause is grounds for a vehicle search. Any individual may be arrested and detained pending a bail hearing before a judge for ANY criminal traffic violation (Speeding, registration, etc. Parking and such is civil) In that instance they are permitted to do a full inventory search of the vehicle and contents.

[Expensive Date]

Both of those actions have been affirmed in Supreme court decisions. According to the Court, ANY probable cause is grounds for a vehicle search. Any individual may be arrested and detained pending a bail hearing before a judge for ANY criminal traffic violation (Speeding, registration, etc. Parking and such is civil) In that instance they are permitted to do a full inventory search of the vehicle and contents.

Must have changed we did not have that when I was on.Could not search for speeding only if you had probable cause for another crime or vehicle was being impounded

[Chris]

Yes- you cannot search on a speed stop- that's why they bring the dope dog if they have suspicion. How do you cross-examine a dog on whether or not they got a hit?

On the other hand, if you were doing 36 in a 35, they could arrest you and impound your vehicle at which time they'd have been permitted to do an inventory search.

[showtime83]

ive noticed most road officers get all the "big busts" off luck, and thats what they were looking for, anything to pull you over and find something, sometimes they do, sometimes they dont, now for plates im guilty on that, about 4 years ago, i had two trucks the same year , both lifted, one was a ext cab, one was a standard, only one was legal, i was driving the one with that was not registered going to work at 330am, got pulled over for sliding around in the snow, i was having fun doing it on purpose, officer took the registration and proof of ins, never noticed the plates werent for the right truck because all the paper work lined up, but the vins didnt match, i got lucky but ill never do that again!!

[dwtinc]

The cops would get more respect if they respect you. I would think most is more then happy to cooperate with them but when they start with an attitude they deserve one back.

[DollaBill]

Well you're obviously guilty of something. I mean you're black:sifone:











(you know I'm jk bro. It was funny)

[dwtinc]

I agree. File a complaint.

[RollWithIt]

I agree with what Chris and Expensive Date have both said. They are very correct in the legal requirements pertaining to stops and searches. Its kinda hard to give a perfect answer to what you are asking. No offense to you, but you are only giving one side of the incident and it is inherintly biased. Not saying its wrong. You did admit to having expired tags and I commend you on your honesty. As for the stop, it was legal. As for the search, it was or wasnt depending on what legal and practical premise they used. In Pa., if I stop a expired vehicle on a public street I am going to tow it and automatically get a free pass to search it and the driver. You cant refuse since my department has an inventory search policy and its allowed by court. With you truck being expired, it was legally not allowed on the road and could be towed. Now, you could have also fit a drug trafficker profile or something to that sort. There are flags we look for and could have been triggered. I cant answer that cause I was not there. And no, I dont have to tell you that I think you fit that profile to ask for permission, I simply look for reasonable suspicion or get consent. In Pa. its different, in lieu of a towable offense, I need to finish my stop, give you all your papers back and tell you that you are free to leave, and then ask for permission to search. I may or may not get it. Ohio may be a lil more liberal. You being searched with your hands held is not detention, its safe practice. Its a search for weapons and not allowed to be any more intrusive than plain touch. The use of a dog is permissible on a stop to do a walk around like they did. you cant refuse that cause the area around your car is not under your control. If the dog hits, then they have cause to search the interior. You kinda have to go off faith that the handler is honest and competent in reading the dog and it actually hits. And when it comes to a search, everything is fair game unless its locked and I dont have consent or a search warrant. I will go through everything including lifting seat cushions if I can. But to start dismantling a vehicle, I need a search warrant.

In summary, your stop and the subsequent search was legal. The tactics may have confused you but they are designed to do that, if you are lying, you trip up over yourself. Do I think they worked with some gray areas, sure. Most police interactions for interdiction is found in the gray areas and follows hunches derived from experience and training. Were they fishing? Possibly to a degree.

My best advice; Always be polite, if you have nothing to hide, freely offer to allow a search. If you are honest and polite and feel that you are ever mistreated, then you have the right to file a complaint with the respective PD the officer works for.

To be honest with you, if it was my stop, I would have cited you for the expired tags and probably towed your truck.

[45calibur]

.


stories like this make me sick

what is this country coming to ?

Gestapo



.

[insanity]

To be honest with you, if it was my stop, I would have cited you for the expired tags and probably towed your truck.

Nice to hear the perspective of another LE officer. But whatever happened to giving somebody a break once in awhile?? At any rate my i's will be dotted and my t's crossed from now on.

I realize that it was 'my' side of the story. To which I guarantee will be alot different than what the officer put in his report, if one was made. I'll submit the request for information to the PD and still contemplating filing a complaint. The only good that came out of it is my truck got a long overdue wash, wax and overall cleaning. Had to get the scratches that mutt put in my paint out.

[insanity]

Well you're obviously guilty of something. I mean you're black:sifone:


(you know I'm jk bro. It was funny)

NOT black, not insanity342 from OSO. If I was the first call I would have made would have been to Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, gotta play that race card if you got it!

[boatme]

Insanity

I guess I’ve got to sum it up and make it simple

You violated their law and drove an unregistered car. Kind of like waving a flag saying pull me over.
Sounds like the end result by the police was a bit extreme but again you gave them the reason to pull you over in the first place

I agree it would have been nice to get a warning and move on, or at least a ticket without the hassle, but in these times that is not what happens, and expecting less is just fool hardy

In the end you should have said "I was an idiot" and chalked it up to not doing that again instead of looking for a reason to blame some of it on someone else

Once again it is part of the "always someone else’s fault not mine" attitude

Yea the cops were a bit overboard but at the end of the day YOU provided the reason for them to pull you over and you knew it could happen Also you had another vehicle to drive so you chose to drive the one that was not registered

Sorry for your hassle but pay the ticket and move on

[DollaBill]

NOT black, not insanity342 from OSO. If I was the first call I would have made would have been to Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, gotta play that race card if you got it!

sorry confused you guys with the screen names.

[Seafordguy]

I'd definitely just pay the ticket and move on. Put it behind you and forget about it.

But I would be PISSED about the dog jumping on the side of my car!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris]

But whatever happened to giving somebody a break once in awhile??



The part where you weren't arrested and your car wasn't towed and you didn't have to sit in jail overnight before a judge set your bail WAS the break. And a big one too.

[Wrinkleface]

I'd definitely just pay the ticket and move on. Put it behind you and forget about it.

But I would be PISSED about the dog jumping on the side of my car!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the dog did do damage, I would look into repair costs at the pd's expense!!! Don't C this as acceptable! Don't blame the dog, he is just a dog!!!!

[drew0982]

cops are a**holes!

[boatme]

cops are a**holes!

Drew how old are you ?

[txriverrat2001]

Ya know the old sayin ... "You can beat the rap ... but you can't beat the ride" Lucky you got to go home .... around here they take ya cause now they're pi$$ed they didn't find anything ...

[rainmn]

Chalk it up to experience and move on.

I was once pulled over 4 times in the same day, on the same road, at pretty close to the same place. Each time the excuse for pulling me over was worse and worse.

At the time, I had to drive 3 miles on the Garden State Parkway to get to work. Took all of about 6 minutes, so I came home for lunch sometimes - this was one of those days.

On the way to work, I was stopped for speeding. That was the one time in my life I was stopped for speeding that I can honestly say that I'm positive I wasn't. On that ride to and from work, I typically didn't even bother to get out of the slow lane - it wasn't worth it the ride was so short.

Way home for lunch, I was swerving. (I wasn't.)

Way back to work, I "crossed into the other lane." This time was about 5 seconds after I got onto the Parkway. The "crossing into the other lane" was to get from the enterance ramp lane (which ends) into the right lane of the highway.

I can't even remember the one they used on my way home, but whatever it was, it didn't even make sense it was so bad.

I can only assume that they were looking for a vehicle that looked like my truck. Obviously, none of them ever told me the real reason for the stop. I was just happy that none of them wanted to tear my truck apart - each stop was simple, a couple questions, license and reg, and that was it.

[Chris]

cops are a**holes!


Interesting perspective.

[boatme]

Interesting perspective.


Usually comes from a younger indevidual (Not always) tis why i asked his age

[insanity]

Insanity

I guess I’ve got to sum it up and make it simple

You violated their law and drove an unregistered car. Kind of like waving a flag saying pull me over.
Sounds like the end result by the police was a bit extreme but again you gave them the reason to pull you over in the first place

I agree it would have been nice to get a warning and move on, or at least a ticket without the hassle, but in these times that is not what happens, and expecting less is just fool hardy

In the end you should have said "I was an idiot" and chalked it up to not doing that again instead of looking for a reason to blame some of it on someone else

Once again it is part of the "always someone else’s fault not mine" attitude

Yea the cops were a bit overboard but at the end of the day YOU provided the reason for them to pull you over and you knew it could happen Also you had another vehicle to drive so you chose to drive the one that was not registered

Sorry for your hassle but pay the ticket and move on

Hey I'm open-minded, not trying to blame it on anybody else. I think I've said it already, I gambled and lost, I'll pay the piper. I just think things we're blown out of proportion is all. Fortunately I've never been through something like this before, and wasn't expecting or prepared for it. I'm not saying its anybody elses fault, I'm pissed at myself more than anybody for giving them a freebie.

This is a discussion forum, I brought up a topic for discussion.

And I find it dis-heartening that cops can search a vehicle pretty much at will for anything with little or no recourse, and I'm not just referring to my situation but from other peoples stories on some of the other boards I brought the topic up on. Let alone let their dog jump on and damage a vehicle. The whole dog thing irks me because it is a 'trained' dog, it can be trained to do a false hit and thus give the pc for a further search. I plan on researching the whole trained dog thing further, just for my own curiosity. The long and the short is I've had enough run-ins with small town cops since I was 16 that I should know better than to give them an easy reason to pull me over, but apparently every once in awhile I need a reminder.

[boatme]

Wait till you get a Cigarette boat and get pulled over and searched for nothing and it happens OFTEN LOL

[insanity]

If the dog did do damage, I would look into repair costs at the pd's expense!!! Don't C this as acceptable! Don't blame the dog, he is just a dog!!!!

I already rubbed out the scratches for the most part, if they would have been any worse... :mad:. Truck needed washed/waxed/cleaned anyhow, and it just felt tainted after that incident, although given the weather it was only clean until I pulled it out of the barn.

[insanity]

Wait till you get a Cigarette boat and get pulled over and searched for nothing and it happens OFTEN LOL

Not mine, but anytime it moves I'm the one pulling it. Haven't got stopped yet, any advice you can off for THAT situation???

[RollWithIt]

FYI.. Police dogs are not trained to do false hits. They are already trained prior to what ever local handler gets them. What typically happens is that the dog is better trained than the handler. The difficulty is getting the handler to read the dog. Just be glad the dog had a passive signal. A dog with a active signal typically scratches and bites at the area it hits on like its digging for a bone.

Insanity. I try to inform anyone who wants to know the truth about how we do things and why. Granted, Im not going to give up all our tactics, but enough to answer questions. I will be the first to admit there are guys who stretch things or have ego complex's. Ive seen it on both sides of the law. Personally I try to approach my job professionally and by the color of the law, resulting in a 90something percent conviction rate. I do cut people breaks alot. If there are children in a car, I wont tow it. If its a problem area with sole female of females, I wont tow it. I look at things from a safety issue. If the car is legally parked when I finally get it stopped, I wont tow it. No legal reason to. But, in your situation, its along a highway I believe and you are a 28 year old male. Im sure more than capable to protect yourself and less than likely to become a victim. Also, you have another car to use, if you need to get to your location that bad, you can call someone to pick you up and then drive your other car. Now, depending on the stop and your attitude combined with you explaining the family situation, I may have simply considered the vehicle legally parked. At that point, how ever it gets moved after Im gone, its gone. As long as i dont see it being driven. Im sure you can read between the lines on that. But if I felt that there was something in the vehicle, I would use my legal right to tow the vehicle as a tool to get a legal search without needing to reach a probable cause level for a search warrant. Its not that easy to simply search a vehicle, when you do it by the letter of the law. There are numerous procedural steps that have to be met. If you have a vehicle that is legal and you have a good driver's license, then it becomes very difficult to search a vehicle without consent or needed a search warrant. You gave the police a "free" search by having an expired vehicle. Without that, you are given alot of protection by the fourth ammendment. If that gets violated, then you can file a suit in federal court for unlawful search or seizure. Hope this helps.

[MarylandMark]

Hope this helps.

:USA:

Thumbs up and thanks!

[Expensive Date]

Not mine, but anytime it moves I'm the one pulling it. Haven't got stopped yet, any advice you can off for THAT situation???


First off get a much bigger truck

[Buoy]

Have to agree, that doesn't look like enough truck to be pulling that cig.
That looks like Birddogs Cig, but I know he has his own rig to tow.

[fund razor]

It just occured to me what an even better story this would have been if he had a roach in the ashtray and an illegal in the trunk. :D

[insanity]

FYI.. Police dogs are not trained to do false hits. They are already trained prior to what ever local handler gets them. What typically happens is that the dog is better trained than the handler. The difficulty is getting the handler to read the dog. Just be glad the dog had a passive signal. A dog with a active signal typically scratches and bites at the area it hits on like its digging for a bone.

Insanity. I try to inform anyone who wants to know the truth about how we do things and why. Granted, Im not going to give up all our tactics, but enough to answer questions. I will be the first to admit there are guys who stretch things or have ego complex's. Ive seen it on both sides of the law. Personally I try to approach my job professionally and by the color of the law, resulting in a 90something percent conviction rate. I do cut people breaks alot. If there are children in a car, I wont tow it. If its a problem area with sole female of females, I wont tow it. I look at things from a safety issue. If the car is legally parked when I finally get it stopped, I wont tow it. No legal reason to. But, in your situation, its along a highway I believe and you are a 28 year old male. Im sure more than capable to protect yourself and less than likely to become a victim. Also, you have another car to use, if you need to get to your location that bad, you can call someone to pick you up and then drive your other car. Now, depending on the stop and your attitude combined with you explaining the family situation, I may have simply considered the vehicle legally parked. At that point, how ever it gets moved after Im gone, its gone. As long as i dont see it being driven. Im sure you can read between the lines on that. But if I felt that there was something in the vehicle, I would use my legal right to tow the vehicle as a tool to get a legal search without needing to reach a probable cause level for a search warrant. Its not that easy to simply search a vehicle, when you do it by the letter of the law. There are numerous procedural steps that have to be met. If you have a vehicle that is legal and you have a good driver's license, then it becomes very difficult to search a vehicle without consent or needed a search warrant. You gave the police a "free" search by having an expired vehicle. Without that, you are given alot of protection by the fourth ammendment. If that gets violated, then you can file a suit in federal court for unlawful search or seizure. Hope this helps.

Seems fair enough to me, very good explanation and this is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Anytime I'm stopped I try to be respectful and polite to the officer no matter how pissed I am, because being an assshole sure isn't going to help the situation any. But at the same time I expect to have the same respect returned to me. In hindsight the K-9 guy wasn't too bad, but the initial officer, well not so much and he was clearly aggitated the search came up empty, he couldn't wait to get into my truck. K-9 guy looked in the driver side visor, looked in the map pocket, looked around the outside of the truck and was like 'whatever', and came back and stood by me.

In my case, what could have triggered the dog to hit? It was on the passenger side, as far as I know there has never been any kind of illicit drug in or around this truck. For the last 10 months, if I haven't been driving it sits in a locked storage unit. What can trigger a false hit?

And why am I left to fend for myself just because I'm a white male??? Jeez, if you're gonna tow my truck the least you could do is give me a ride home, right?? Just Kidding man.

[insanity]

First off get a much bigger truck


Have to agree, that doesn't look like enough truck to be pulling that cig.
That looks like Birddogs Cig, but I know he has his own rig to tow.

Yeah yeah, I know I'm at my very limit of about 12,500 lbs. I did upgrade the hitch to a class V and Electic over hydraulic will be going on the trailer this winter. Am looking for a dually or possibly an old Top Kick. Not Birddog's, similar paint as he's mentioned on another board. This is the one that was for sale out in Las Vegas, my cousin bought it in August, that was the day it showed up.


It just occured to me what an even better story this would have been if he had a roach in the ashtray and an illegal in the trunk. :D

Believe me I was trying to think as fast as I could who I've had in that truck in the last year and if anybody would have been 'holding'. Luckily most of the people I hang out with outgrew that a loooong time ago.

[Griff]

Here is a street cops perspective in a nut shell.

1. The officers had probable cause to stop you. They probably did run your plate while you were at the store. People have often asked me why I ran their plate. Usually its just because they were in front of me. Its just random in most cases and in some cases I run them for a reason.
2. They can run a k-9 around any vehicle on a traffic stop or on any vehicle as long as it does not take an unreasonable amount of time for the K-9 to get there.
3. The search of a vehicle is protected under the 4th amendment, but the standards are not as stringent as those for a dwelling.
4. More than likely, not being able to produce your insurance is a misdemeanor (I think its kind of BS that he didn't let you get it out of your bag) It's a misd in Nebraska. Technically you were under arrest for for the Insurance and they had every right to search your vehicle incident to that arrest.
5. My guess is something threw them a red flag. It could be anything. Maybe a past charge on you, maybe something they thought they saw or smelled in your vehicle, or maybe something that was on a law enforcement bulletin that has nothing to do with you. They asked you about a GMC Sierra??? It most likely has something to do with that. My guess is they are trying to identify a suspect in something and you may have matched his description. I'm not at all familiar with the area and don't know how much traveling it is. The way you answered the questions about where you were coming from, where you were going and that you had been out of town might thrown a red flag as well.
6. The AR 15 mags, you "forgot about" definately didn't help. The k-9 could have hit on them.
7. Old magazines(reading type) and the free newspapers, etc are commonly used by marijuana smokers to roll blunts on.
8. Cops can deceive or lie to you to get you to do or say something. They just can't threaten you. I can tell a person that I will just go get a warrant to search your house (even if I don't have that intention or the probable cause) to try and get you to give permission.
9. Chances are there was no report done other than a field contact card or an internal report about the search and K-9 search. Those are not public record.

[insanity]

Here is a street cops perspective in a nut shell.

2. They can run a k-9 around any vehicle on a traffic stop or on any vehicle as long as it does not take an unreasonable amount of time for the K-9 to get there.

Whole town is about 8 minutes across, took at least 10 min as I was wondering what the heck the holdup was. Cop shop is about a mile from the Interstate where I was stopped.



4. More than likely, not being able to produce your insurance is a misdemeanor (I think its kind of BS that he didn't let you get it out of your bag) It's a misd in Nebraska. Technically you were under arrest for for the Insurance and they had every right to search your vehicle incident to that arrest.

I could produce it, instead of reaching for my bag, I stated where it was and that I would be more than happy to get it. He declined. He then searched said bag during vehicle search, and I'm sure saw my insurance card as well as the insurance cards to my 2 other vehicles and my policy that I keep in the bag, yet still declined to allow me to show it to him after he moved my bag from the backseat to the front. First time I'd driven the truck since I got my new cards.



5. My guess is something threw them a red flag. It could be anything. Maybe a past charge on you, maybe something they thought they saw or smelled in your vehicle, or maybe something that was on a law enforcement bulletin that has nothing to do with you. They asked you about a GMC Sierra??? It most likely has something to do with that. My guess is they are trying to identify a suspect in something and you may have matched his description. I'm not at all familiar with the area and don't know how much traveling it is. The way you answered the questions about where you were coming from, where you were going and that you had been out of town might thrown a red flag as well.

Only past charge other than speeding tickets was an underage consumption when I was 18, ten years ago. I was in my GMC Sierra.



6. The AR 15 mags, you "forgot about" definately didn't help. The k-9 could have hit on them.

No quotes necessary, I actually did forget they were in my bag. Too much travelling and too little sleep. Picked them up over Christmas along with some stripped lowers, they were in my car, forgot they were in there until I went to throw my gps in the glovebox when I got to the hotel last week. Put them in my bag because I've had my car broken into at hotels in the past, a week of dirty clothes on top of them and forgot all about them.



7. Old magazines(reading type) and the free newspapers, etc are commonly used by marijuana smokers to roll blunts on.

I misunderstood what he was talking about. I thought he meant paper ar-15 magazines, i.e. reading materials. In actuality he meant actual ar mags. There were no paper magazines in the truck.



8. Cops can deceive or lie to you to get you to do or say something. They just can't threaten you. I can tell a person that I will just go get a warrant to search your house (even if I don't have that intention or the probable cause) to try and get you to give permission.

Nice.

Again, I take responsibility for driving with the expired tags and welcome another LE's comments on the matter.

[fund razor]

Ya know.... if you are only 28, and you handled all of this without getting yourself in more trouble, and you understand what you did to get the attention from the primary officer... and you can even come on here and take your lumps from a bunch of guys....
you will be just fine.

[X-Rated30]

To Chris, RWI and anyone else that thinks the situation was handled properly OR legally, go back to school.


The Supreme Court has ruled that an automobile is entitled to no search and seizure protections.

*********************************************

Another example is DUI checkpoints. The only probable cause present there is the fact that you're operating a vehicle. Yet the Supreme Court has ruled that they are constitutional.

If that is your understanding of the law on search and seizure or the rationale behind DWI checkpoint legality, you have no business teaching any of it. Perhaps you were not thinking about it when you typed it and were just firing off a quick answer. If so, and you do know your stuff, I apologize for being so harsh. Just addressing what was posted.

Insanity - If everything in your first post is ABSOLUTELY correct, then copy and paste it into a complaint. Hopefully there was video taken from the officers' cars to back up your story. If so, it would make a great training video of what not to say and do. The video will show there was no "passive alert" - sniffing is NOT a passive alert.

There was no reasonable suspicion for the extended detention. The officer may not use writing a ticket as an excuse to keep you detained longer than necessary for the infraction. If he was going to write a ticket, he must do so in a reasonable amount of time. If he had the authority to arrest you and seize the vehicle, he could have offered you the option to be searched instead in order to obtain consent for the search, but that didn't happen.

For anyone that wants to praise these men's actions as good law enforcement, think again. If they HAD found something illegal in a search like this, it would have been excluded from evidence (assuming the defendant could prove it), and the guilty party would have been released. Doing it right the first time is the best way.

[fund razor]

There's right... and then there's "right but pushing it is wrong."

Frankly.... right or wrong I would be quite reluctant to draw further attention to myself in that small town. IMO... it was a case of "driving while not from around here." A wise man would be tempted to be very inconspicous for the remainder of your time there. They pissed you off. They didn't beat you and plant evidence.
However, perhaps you have a touch of crusader or reformer in you....

If you enjoyed that stop, you will love the next. Go make a federal case out of it. You can be the Rosa Parks of small town Ohio bad traffic stops.

X Rated has advised you.... maybe he will defend you if/when you take his advice. In fact.... you may want to take him with you when you go file your complaint. Have him drive his rental car.

When I was 22 I would have filed charges against them. At 42, I would have counted my fingers and toes, gone home, poured a drink, and thanked God that I am not a miserable small town cop, and that I don't HAVE to see them again.

[Chris]

When Judge Rhenquist wrote his majority opinion affirming the practice of DUI checkpoints, he paid particular emphasis to stating his opinion that the overwhelming public good brought by finding and removing drunk drivers from the highways outweighed the imposition being placed upon those being screened (paraphrasing- I could Google the exact text). I didn't write the law, but I'm somewhat familiar with it, as well as those other Supreme Court decisions that apply to traffic stops.

I don't agree with him and I know from the statistics compiled and the discussions with LEO's that they don't work and that they're rarely employed in a fashion that might make them effective. They do them around here at 8PM on friday in the downtown areas. If they did them a 2AM in areas where bar saturation was higher or by larger clubs, I'm sure they would be more effective- but they're not.

As far as this being a good traffic stop- the officers owed the individual no particular level of courtesy nor are they required to process the stop with any particular speed or efficiency. For all any of us knows, there may have been communication issues or dispatchers occupied with more urgent calls. The key here is the word "reasonable". There are no specific laws or rules written here. Many departments have guidelines that they expect theirt officers to adhere to so that if the issue of "reasonable" is questioned at trial, it can be defended and their charges against you protected.

X-rated- You may have missed that it would have been completely legal for the officer to arrest this young man, tow his vehicle and do an extensive inventory search simply on the expired plates issue. He could have spent the night and seen the judge in the nmorning about bail. I for one am glad we have officers out there keeping an eye out for all our safety. And writing a complaint is going to do absolutely nothing. If you were a citizen of the community and contacted the mayor or councilman you might get some lip service. But otherwise your opinion matters not. That's just reality.

[Never Enuff]

drew0982,
Next time you need a cop--maybe for a bad accident your involved in when your injuried and need assistance and he/she is the first on the scene and can perform first aid or if someone breaks into your house/vehicle and steals your stuff you might mention to him that you think "cops are a**holes." Especially if it's on Christmas or Thanksgiving while your enjoying yourself with your family and the cop is at work. I always loved to interact with people like you when I was working the streets:sifone:
Jay

[dwtinc]

Our finest at work

[Mark]

Bottom line is that the popo can do whatever they want and get away with it. I went through something similar when I was 20. The cops went through my car 7 times!!! They were the dirtiest cops I've ever come across and I learned a huge lesson which I've NEVER forgotten. It's a long story but I'll tell you they lied their asses off in court and held my personal property for over three months when it was supposed to be returned the next day.

I've sworn to create a "sting" operation on that department and others to expose their corruption; when the money is there. They were written up in the paper shortly after as the worst department in the state. Also, a friend who's brother worked for that department told me how his brother bragged about how they would "ruin peoples lives" when they were bored in the middle of the night. He had no knowledge as to my encounter. Needless to say, I keep the hell away from the long arm of the law.

[dwtinc]

I don't use the police services

[RollWithIt]

X-Rated, you must not have read all my responses through. But you are entitled to your opinion based upon the information that was stated here. We've agreed to dissagree on issues in the past and this is clearly another one. But to say that the Officers were clearly in the wrong and that it was a violation of Insanity's 4th amendment rights is a big stretch. And to know the "passive signal" by the K9 was it "sniffing" the car, well, you must have been there. While it is quite possible the handler missread the dog or the dog had a false hit, its far from a civil rights issue. It would be nice to have a video of the whole stop with audio, cause only then could any of us including yourself truely know what happened with no inherent bias either way. As for the going back to school thing, sure. I'll go. But not cause I need re-educated. Im sure I have a basid grasp of criminal law with a bachelors degree, time in the police academy and 11 years of experience not to mention numerouse career specific classes once on the job.

Mark, I will be the first to admit that there are some shady dirty cops out there. There are guys who get on this job and let the power go to their heads or they were crooked before even getting on the job and used the power to enhance their tendancies. Numerous departments have had this problem and it is a problem. I have no patience for people of this disposition and think they should be locked up. As for getting away with what ever we want, thats far from the truth. In the past it was alot easier but there is alot of oversight now. If something illegal occurs or a civil rights violation occurs at the hands of a LE officer, the side of the road is not the time to deal with it. Following up with the District Attorney's Office, State Police, FBI, etc.. is the proper way. Every year there is caselaw that comes out as a result of officers who do shady or illegal procedural actions to make a case. The only way that happens is when somebody who was wronged, stood up for what was right.

[dwtinc]

Every year there is caselaw that comes out as a result of officers who do shady or illegal procedural actions to make a case. The only way that happens is when somebody who was wronged, stood up for what was right.

I agree

[Mark]

X-Rated, you must not have read all my responses through. But you are entitled to your opinion based upon the information that was stated here. We've agreed to dissagree on issues in the past and this is clearly another one. But to say that the Officers were clearly in the wrong and that it was a violation of Insanity's 4th amendment rights is a big stretch. And to know the "passive signal" by the K9 was it "sniffing" the car, well, you must have been there. While it is quite possible the handler missread the dog or the dog had a false hit, its far from a civil rights issue. It would be nice to have a video of the whole stop with audio, cause only then could any of us including yourself truely know what happened with no inherent bias either way. As for the going back to school thing, sure. I'll go. But not cause I need re-educated. Im sure I have a basid grasp of criminal law with a bachelors degree, time in the police academy and 11 years of experience not to mention numerouse career specific classes once on the job.

Mark, I will be the first to admit that there are some shady dirty cops out there. There are guys who get on this job and let the power go to their heads or they were crooked before even getting on the job and used the power to enhance their tendancies. Numerous departments have had this problem and it is a problem. I have no patience for people of this disposition and think they should be locked up. As for getting away with what ever we want, thats far from the truth. In the past it was alot easier but there is alot of oversight now. If something illegal occurs or a civil rights violation occurs at the hands of a LE officer, the side of the road is not the time to deal with it. Following up with the District Attorney's Office, State Police, FBI, etc.. is the proper way. Every year there is caselaw that comes out as a result of officers who do shady or illegal procedural actions to make a case. The only way that happens is when somebody who was wronged, stood up for what was right.

Yes Roll. Can't blame an officer who is not corrupt being sick with the ones who are. I know several cops. The honest ones ***** about the guys who do it just to be punks on a power trip. Also, the best criminals I ever knew as a kid are now cops. Sad but true. That's oddly what makes them effective cops. I'd sure like to know what sheet they have done since signing up. Nothing would supprise me.

[Mark]

I don't use the police services

Agreed. I will use the EMS when and if the need arises. As for the rest; I own a lot of guns!

It's funny. Years ago, my Sister with her abusive husband with a knife to her 9 month pregnant head and tho popo right outside the door said "we can't go in there". Luckily she was not killed and the child is almost as fuked up as the Dad. Yep, they are there when you need them all right.

[fund razor]

Didn't the Supreme Court rule that protection was an unreasonable expectation of law enforcement agencies, and they exist primarily to deterr and investigate?

I thought that they did.

But if not... I am ok with being told that I need to go to school.

[RollWithIt]

Years ago, my Sister with her abusive husband with a knife to her 9 month pregnant head and tho popo right outside the door said "we can't go in there". Luckily she was not killed and the child is almost as fuked up as the Dad. Yep, they are there when you need them all right.

t

If that happened where i work, the door wouldve been taken off the hinges and the husband would need medically cleared before he went to jail..... But you would still find someone to say that they violated his rights and used excessive force..

[X-Rated30]

They pissed you off. They didn't beat you and plant evidence.

********************************************

X Rated has advised you.... maybe he will defend you if/when you take his advice.

LOL! Fund is right - you should just thank your lucky little stars these people who are supposedly protecting YOU didn't beat you or plant evidence - maybe we should give 'em a little gold star for it and ignore what they did wrong.

(And yes, If you asked, and if you could afford the fee, I would defend you. I made a decision a LOOOONG time ago, that I will defend anyone that needs my services and can afford my fee. Everyone is entitled to a defense in this country whether guilty, innocent, insane or any combination thereof. As for the fee, I am a firm believer in the Thirteenth Amendment.:sifone:)



When Judge Rhenquist wrote his majority opinion affirming the practice of DUI checkpoints, he paid particular emphasis to stating his opinion that the overwhelming public good brought by finding and removing drunk drivers from the highways outweighed the imposition being placed upon those being screened (paraphrasing- I could Google the exact text).

Ummmm, you said being in a vehicle is sufficient probable cause. This balancing test has nothing to do with probable cause, but the amount of intrusion into your privacy balanced with the public interest.


X-rated- You may have missed that it would have been completely legal for the officer to arrest this young man, tow his vehicle and do an extensive inventory search simply on the expired plates issue.

Ummmm, I don't think I did:
If he had the authority to arrest you and seize the vehicle, he could have offered you the option to be searched instead in order to obtain consent for the search, but that didn't happen.

And as for not filing the complaint, maybe you guys think the only reason to file a complaint is to get someone in trouble. Not true. If the complaint is handled properly and the officers made their mistakes by accident (and not in an attempt to circumvent the law), these guys' boss will see they need some training and they will get it. Then maybe the next time they search a vehicle, there won't be a built in acquittal if they find something.:ack2:

[jeff1000man]

Cops will be cops, and when they are sitting around bored, it just gets them to thinking about mischeivious ways to bust your balls until their shift is over.

I got pulled over on christmas eve a coule years ago on the way to my mothers house. It was cold about 40, and it was raining. I was going through a construction area. I was getting pon the freeway from the service road and got pulled over. I wasn't doing anything wrong and my tags etc. were good.

Officer asked me why I was driving on the wrong side of the road. My initial response was, "isn't this a one way street?" He told me that there was a report of someone driving on the wrong side of the street a couple miles from where I had come from. I asked, "what makes you thnk it was me?". He said "it was your license plate and vehicle description, matches the info that I have been given". He asked for my license and insureance which I gave him and then he asks how much I had to drink that night. I hadn't had anything, so I said nothing. He makes me get out of the car. I am wering a T-Shirt since I am in a heated car. It is 40 degrees and raining.

I ask the guy if this is really necessarysince he clearly has the wrong guy. ---Sidenote, Don't ever tell a cop that he is wrong, this just makes them want to be right even more---- I stand on the side of the road for 10 minutes taking the drunk test and saying my ABC's, then he wants to look in the truck. At this point who gives a chit, and I tell him that. Probably not my best answer, but he couldn't find anything, and these guys hate being wrong, so he searches my truck and finds my whisky stash. Luckily it is on the other side of the truck and under the back seat, out of arms reach, and I had all ready passed all of the roadside sobriety tests. He tells me to be careful on the way to my mothers and to have a nice night. With the random obvious choice words in the back of my head, I take back my license and get the fu(k out of there. But that is just one of my many bad experiences with these guys.

Keep in mind that I do not hate cops, I jsut hate this guy, and a couple others like him who are jackazzes. I would hate them anyway if they wern't cops. I am the first to go ahead and just sign the ticket when I get pulled over, because I figure it is payback for all the times I din't get caught.

[RollWithIt]

Jeff.. the situation you described is a bad stop and a clear violation of your rights as its described. First, if he had gotten a call about such a vehicle description, he could have easily had the dispatcher rebroadcast the info over the radio with you listening, ive done this on numerous occassions when something thinks Im just randomly stopping them for nothing. It goes along way in proving credibility. Second, he had no legal right to remove you from the car and perform field sobriety tests. The reasonable suspicion that he would need is the typical glassy bloodshot eyes, slurred or slow speach, an odor of an alcoholic-brewed beverage emminating from your person and impaired movements. Without these, you can not take a driver from a vehicle if they have a good license and the vehicle is valid. Why guys do stupid stuff like this amazes me cause they open themselves up for lawsuits and rightfully should be sued.

[Madpoodle]

There's right... and then there's "right but pushing it is wrong."

Frankly.... right or wrong I would be quite reluctant to draw further attention to myself in that small town. IMO... it was a case of "driving while not from around here." A wise man would be tempted to be very inconspicous for the remainder of your time there. They pissed you off. They didn't beat you and plant evidence.
However, perhaps you have a touch of crusader or reformer in you....

If you enjoyed that stop, you will love the next. Go make a federal case out of it. You can be the Rosa Parks of small town Ohio bad traffic stops.

X Rated has advised you.... maybe he will defend you if/when you take his advice. In fact.... you may want to take him with you when you go file your complaint. Have him drive his rental car.

When I was 22 I would have filed charges against them. At 42, I would have counted my fingers and toes, gone home, poured a drink, and thanked God that I am not a miserable small town cop, and that I don't HAVE to see them again.

Bingo..

[Never Enuff]

Jeff,
I totally agree with rollwithit. When officers(a small%) abuse their authority and violate citizen rights they have cast a shadow on the thousands and thousands that do a good job everyday. They are also partly responsible for stories such as the ones you have read on this thread. Everyone has a "cops did this to me" story. Some are true and have not been "enhanced", others I wonder what the other half of the story is????? If you really want to know what the cops do, most departments have a ride along program. Try riding with an officer for an 8 or 10 hour shift and see for yourself then make a judgement on what kind of job they do. I think you will be suprised. The alternative is to sit here behind your computer and say things like " all cops are a**holes."
Jay