Empire State Building Shootout Results

[Ratickle]

Sometimes you have to wonder, but I'm not going to judge too much.

Where do the police in New York di their weapons training?

NEW YORK – All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.

The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk.

Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times. Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol.

The volley of gunfire felled Johnson in just a few seconds and left nine other people bleeding on the sidewalk.

Read more: NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire/#ixzz24sbYMsO0)

[fund razor]

I wouldn't even judge THAT much, Paul.
I can't imagine the circumstances. I shoot a lot, in fact, I spent an hour on the range today. I know all too well how much difference a millimeter in the hand makes downrange. What I don't know is what it becomes when someone is pointing a weapon back at you. A shooting situation with a crowd downrange would be a cop's worst nightmare, I suppose. Best wishes to the officers and the wounded citizens. There will be a shooting review, and if the officers made a bad choice it will be addressed through training, I am sure.

The difference between how many rounds were fired and how many people were wounded will be key, since the part of the article that Paul doesn't post suggests that the wounded could have been hit by fragments from rounds that didn't hit them.

[Donskihp]

Hopefully those two officers can show that they have good skills in a rifle range, as to show that circumstances and envirnoment are everything. I won't have wanted to be in there shoes, had they not reacted fast how many people would the gunman posibly taken out?

[rschap1]

:(
Hope that our lawsuit happy society doesn't go too nuts on the officers
:(

[Ratickle]

There is no way they should be sued, but it is New York so it will probably happen.

I was just extremely surprised that you could hit 9 bystanders, and kill the gunman, with a total of 16 shots. I'm guessing it is probably hype reporting agian, and Fund's correct that there were a bunch of fragments etc.

Here are the most recent studies of New Yoork police I found.

New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report. The police shot and killed 13 people last year.

In 2005, officers fired 472 times in the same circumstances, hitting their mark 82 times, for a 17.4 percent hit rate. They shot and killed nine people that year.

[fund razor]

Holy Crap.

Toledo Police has a better hit rate.

[ICDEDPPL]

Typical news report, reports 9 people shot but as you actually get into the facts its

Police have determined that three people were struck by whole bullets -- two of which were removed from victims at the hospital -- and the rest were grazed "by fragments of some sort," Kelly said.

So in reality 3 people shot.