Fountain Svl runs 105 at loto shootout

[Wreckdoctor]

Congratulations to doc and his entire team for their run at the 2011 loto shootout. The boat looked incredible running and posted some great speeds, 105 in a single engine 525 in a mile is impressive to say the least...
Congratulations again!:cheers2:

[imco offshore]

great job .congrats to Doc and team ,,we all knew you could do it ,:03:
is it documented anywhere ,,would love to see it..

[Wreckdoctor]

http://www.lakeoftheozarksshootout.org/results.html

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Did that break your record or his from last year?

[imco offshore]

thanks Lance what does pv2f1 stand for ?

[Wreckdoctor]

My class was pro vee lite modified last year. Mike ran in the stock class last year, the class letters were different this year, not sure what it stood for, we didn't even get to capt rons, enjoyed margaritas on the cruiser and enjoyed the races, missed seeing you Jim, next year you have to make it, some big numbers were posted this year, some controversies with the radar system this year, hopefully next year they can straighten it out, the loto shootout is an event everyone should try to make..

[imco offshore]

thanks ,,maybe someone else might know ,,but thanks again ,,hope you and Shelly and the boys are doing well,,,I was just telling someone about the conversation your son and I had on the golf cart in Detroit ,,great kid ,,with good insite,,

[Ratickle]

I'll take a stab at it from what I knew last year......



P = Professional Division

V = Vee Hull

2 = Not sure, has to do with length. I think the shortest class is 1 and it is 22' to 26' , 2 is probably 27' to 30 something'.

F = Factory Modified Engine (All "Blue" motors fall in this)

1 = Single Engine


With the rules changed for P1 SVS and SBI SVL on the modified boxes being allowed, it does not surprise me to much the boat went 105.

[TYPHOON]

I call :icon_bs: on a Merc. stock 525. Can someone run the projected speeds with lets say a 6% slip (Which is impossable). What HP numbers do you need with a 6 blade prop and what pitch do you need? A stock Merc 525 has a dyno sheet at aprox 575 HP. A hand built .30 over Merc. 525 with a hot box has aprox 625 HP. Is 105 MPH possable ??????? Do inspectors chech these motors after the event is over or is this just hand shake and a winck?
MD

[600sci]

well, i can tell u it is posable as of what i heard

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Randy, LOTO does their thing independent of any orgs rules. Stock only appears in the thread as Lance referred to last year. It should be clear to anyone with a brain it was not a stock 525.

[imco offshore]

eazzy ,,,i wanted to say that,,,the hp is closer to 700,, Randy,,

[600sci]

as far as i heard, it was a stock 525 with big PCM ! raised X and 6 blade herring !

but who knows :driving::willy_nilly:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Pretty impressive never the less. 105 at 640 some odd feet above sea level in fresh water.

[TYPHOON]

Jim, Bull **** does not impress me. Honesty,loyalty and friendship rules in my book!!!!

[TYPHOON]

So 600SCI, running a modified box is leagal? I thought the rules were stock 525 in that class.

[TYPHOON]

There should be no room for this kind of behavior. I dont care if its for fun! Honest people spend $hit loads of money to set records. This is BS at its best.

[TYPHOON]

Jim, Anyone with a brain? They just put him in the record books at 105 with a stock 525. The more I think the madder I get!!!!!!!!

[Ratickle]

So 600SCI, running a modified box is leagal? I thought the rules were stock 525 in that class.

It does need to be stock according to the rules I have.


ENGINE CLASSIFICATIONS:
S – STOCK ENGINES (ANY PRODUCTION ENGINES WITHOUT MODIFICATION, 500 HP ENGINES ARE NOT STOCK)
F – FOR MODIFIED FACTORY ENGINES WITHOUT POWER (INCLUDES 525 SC STOCK)
M – CUSTOM BUILT MODIFIED ENGINES WITHOUT POWER ADDED FEATURES
P – POWER ADDED FEATURES (i.e. BLOWERS, TURBOS, NITROS, TURBINES, etc.)

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I don't know why you let it bother you. We know his game.

[600sci]

It does need to be stock according to the rules I have.


ENGINE CLASSIFICATIONS:
S – STOCK ENGINES (ANY PRODUCTION ENGINES WITHOUT MODIFICATION, 500 HP ENGINES ARE NOT STOCK)
F – FOR MODIFIED FACTORY ENGINES WITHOUT POWER (INCLUDES 525 SC STOCK)
M – CUSTOM BUILT MODIFIED ENGINES WITHOUT POWER ADDED FEATURES
P – POWER ADDED FEATURES (i.e. BLOWERS, TURBOS, NITROS, TURBINES, etc.)

i thought they raised the rpm rules in SBI atleast..so i think its still considered legal..BUT NOT SHURE !


i didnt even know u can have 510 CI per SBI rulebook ???!!!!

6.8.2. Engine maintenance and rebuilds – The respective motors can be maintained and rebuilt, utilizing stock OEM parts and specifications, with a maximum cubic inch limitation of 510 cu in and a maximum compression ratio of 9.0:1, all other engine specifications and tolerances must be as per the Original Engine Manufacturer or have approval from SBIP in writing. Note: After market 502 cubic inch GM blocks may be used.

[Donskihp]

Just curious was 105 with an alluminum flywheel?

[600sci]

Just curious was 105 with an alluminum flywheel?

The Doc said on OSO ..it was not the legal racemotor for the SBI org. so it could very well be !

but an aluminum flywheel wont do anything in a boat...is what i been told from some engine builders !

[imco offshore]

whats the differance ,,it ran 105 ,,that is awesome,,,i would love to be in my boat and run 100,,either way the man never claimed to be a stock 525,,so it,s all good in my book,,
ps Scott,, you have been seriously miss led about the flywheel,,a stock merc flywheel weighs 43 lbs,,that uses up a certine amount of hp ,,an aluminum weighs 12 ,,thats 30 lbs of rotating weight,,if it didn,t matter ,then why does EVERY engine builder thrive to race,, light cranks,,rods,,pistons,pins ,,ect,,? just saying,,my 2 cents,,have a great day,,

[600sci]

LOTO Does not have a "stock 525" class. It's a

FOR MODIFIED FACTORY ENGINES WITHOUT POWER (INCLUDES 525 SC STOCK, 500hp, 500efi, 525efi)

So it's a 525 class built up to what ever you want just no blowers, turbos, NOS.. etc.

[600sci]

ps Scott,, you have been seriously miss led about the flywheel,,a stock merc flywheel weighs 43 lbs,,that uses up a certine amount of hp ,,an aluminum weighs 12 ,,thats 30 lbs of rotating weight,,if it didn,t matter ,then why does EVERY engine builder thrive to race,, light cranks,,rods,,pistons,pins ,,ect,,? just saying,,my 2 cents,,have a great day,,

hhhmmmm...the way i was told it can give u a little fatser RPM..and in a boat it is so little that it wont be good for even 1 MPH..but it makes sense what your saying too .. and now im confused again..LOL:USA:

[imco offshore]

if it gave just .25 a quarter of mile an hour ,,at the end of a 100 mile race ,,it would be 2.5 miles ahead of you,, stock is stock ,not is not ,,it,s like" kinda" being pregnant,,
now in svl we have 4 differant classes ,
,oss = stock 525.
.opa = rebuild and stay withen a limit
sbi = rebuild max compression 9.0 max cu.in.510. and unlimited ecu,
,and p-1 = anything goes max rpm 5800,,,
this is just a close description ,for sake of argument..
so you can see why ANY small change in any one ,is a great advantage..

[Donskihp]

wasn't there some talk of power to weight ratio and the use of a torque meter for the svl's

[XtremeRacing]

That never happen this yr in P1 maybe in the future, not sure why. That would be a question for Martin.

[Slandrew]

105 is fast great run!:cheers2:

[Wil Ros]

if it gave just .25 a quarter of mile an hour ,,at the end of a 100 mile race ,,it would be 2.5 miles ahead of you,, stock is stock ,not is not ,,it,s like" kinda" being pregnant,,
now in svl we have 4 differant classes ,
,oss = stock 525.
.opa = rebuild and stay withen a limit
sbi = rebuild max compression 9.0 max cu.in.510. and unlimited ecu,
,and p-1 = anything goes max rpm 5800,,,
this is just a close description ,for sake of argument..
so you can see why ANY small change in any one ,is a great advantage..


Georgie,

This is the most accurate statement made in the last 2 years on these boards. See you soon.

Wil

[Ratickle]

LOTO Does not have a "stock 525" class. It's a

FOR MODIFIED FACTORY ENGINES WITHOUT POWER (INCLUDES 525 SC STOCK, 500hp, 500efi, 525efi)

So it's a 525 class built up to what ever you want just no blowers, turbos, NOS.. etc.

Includes "525 SC STOCK". If someone modifies it, it is not stock. They specifically made it that way because of the Cat Lights and SVL's.....

[600sci]

Includes "525 SC STOCK". If someone modifies it, it is not stock. They specifically made it that way because of the Cat Lights and SVL's.....

Paul, i agree that is correct, its what it should mean..but it doesent ...:eek:

I copied this from OSO, PFE racing posted it this there in a similar thread !

Thats how they been told as a partisipent ! ( spelling, i know ) LOL

[TYPHOON]

Now Im confussed again about what the class rules really mean.
I first read it as stock (do not touch the seals,ECM or any part on the Merc motor).
Then someone said it means take a stock merc motor and do anything you want to it but dont put on a blower or NOS. If this is what it means why even use the merc. name in the rules? Just say build ANY motor without blower or NOS.
Does any OFFICIAL person from LOTO staff have the answere for us or who can I call. If I miss interpreted the rules than I am man enough to give Doc an appology for racing with in the rules.

[p-f-e]

Im going to jump in so you guys know the rules for loto have no bearing on what the svl rule would be .
Doc didnt try to pawn off that it was a stock 525 to me and the only way that boat will go 105 in my opinion with a real 525 is on the trailer on the highway that being said this is what the rule reads that he ran under at loto.
PV2F1
p-professional
V-v-hull
2-27-31 length
F-factory modified engine ie merc 500 or 525 no power adders
1-one engine
Also the question about the aluminum flywheel it will make the engine rpm quicker at the expense of wanting to stall when you put it in gear if you have a big wheel.
Also think about it a real 525 hp verses gear size prop size and rpm pluse weight and drag air and water 105 ant going to happen i dont care what way you calculate it at least not with a real 525.Hope this helps clear things up.
Also not trying to jump into the svl topic not my place to go there just stating what i know about loto thanks gary p-f-e .racing

[Ratickle]

No problem Gary, thanks.

I can get ahold of the LOTO Shootout tech guys and find out. I think it has to be a stock 525 to fit the rules the way they currently are for the Shootout. Only the factory can modify the engine and have it still be legal. It has nothing to do with any of the racing organizations rules.

[Ratickle]

Some of the guys are getting ahold of me and saying the 525SC, the old supercharged engine, is the only one that can fit in the class and run absolutely stock. That also makes no sense to me because of the power adder of the SC. But, I'll try to find out as I said.

If this is accurate, then you could do absolutely anything to a 525efi, and I mean anything but boost, and have it fit in the class that the Doc ran. That sounds like what he did. Everything but boost is okay maybe?

[imco offshore]

DOES IT REALLY MATTER ,? He ran 105 ,,non of the posting racers were their ,,so who,s contesting what,,,if 3 or 4 others were their and entered the same class ,,then maybe ,just maybe if you read the rules before you entered the class ,,you would have an argument,,soooo it,s moot ,,if their is a lesson here ,,,READ THE RULES BEFORE YOU RACE !!!BRING A GUN TO A GUN FIGHT,,,

[Ratickle]

Well, from what I've been able to find out.......


If the engine was modified in any way, except by the factory, it would fall into the pv2m1 class, not the pv2f1 class.


The m stands for modified engines without adder's like blowers, superchargers, etc.


The f stands for factory modified engines only. So the 525efi stock would fall into f because it is a factory modified engine for performance boats/racing, if it gets modified in any way, other than by the factory, it goes into m. That was what Lance ran in last year.

I'm still waiting for official feedback on the record though...

[600sci]

i think the rules no matter in which class and where..are very confusing and could be mad a lot easyer for everybody to understand not just in this shootout also in any spec class !

On this one tho, im with george..WHO cares..lol :cheers2:


Hope to see some of u in NY for the race to remember 9-11 !!!! :USA:

[extras]

Did tommy fix the damage from the tree. I know it wasn't much but it sure looked bad!

[600sci]

Did tommy fix the damage from the tree. I know it wasn't much but it sure looked bad!

LOLOLOLOLOL:D


ALL GOOD AND REAY TO GO !!!!! :USA:

[Bilgerat]

This is the problem with the Shootout. It has gotten so big, and commercialized and is now organized so everyone leaves a winner. I haven't been there from the start but when i did come in in 1997, it was about bragging rights, a handfull of classes and it was cool. One guy would run and if he bettered your speed in your class you could go out and try to one up him. Awesome fun. By the way I had at one time the Fastest Vee Bottom in the shootout, before that award was designed. One of the few changes I agree with. Now we have professional and novice, what the.... Are you suggesting one millionaires Skater should be in a different class than another millionaires skater just because one guy has raced before making him professional. Please. If you have a million dollar boat I hope your professional to some degree. Also if competing in an offshore race makes you professional?? that has nothing to do with going fast in a straight line at the shootout. Used to be a handfull of classes one of which was P for Power adders. That means a staggered 42 fountain with 525 sc's ( 80 MPH Boat ) is in the same class as the "Cat Killer" ( 140+ MPH boat ) . Guess what you don't leave with a $10 plaque, Boo Hoo.

[Ratickle]

Professional, Novice, and Manufacturer.......

[Ratickle]

However, all in all, I think they've done fairly well with the classes, even if there are a few too many......


The 525SC is the only power adder engine left in the F designation I believe.

[Bilgerat]

The classes are currently ridiculous, and a supercharger is a supercharger, what and why should there be a difference just for a 525SC ? Currently if one person had a 525SC blue like original, and another had a home built engine of the exact same configuration only without mercury logos, they would be in different classes ? Dumb. I agree its great for the lake etc. My father is a fireman here as well and he and many others benefit from it. Its just dumb how much crybabying takes place just so you can leave a "Winner" Look at the results and see how many classes have no competition at all.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

....... and is now organized so everyone leaves a winner.

Guess what you don't leave with a $10 plaque, Boo Hoo.

You got to have a packed trophy case next to your pictures. :willy_nilly:

I remember the first trophy I got. It was for Exceptional shifting at a local drag race track. I was probably 8 or 9. Everyone left with a trophy. :driving:

Looking back I don't remember anything about the day but, I sure smiled just now as I picked it up and looked at it. :sifone:

[imco offshore]

I dont even save trophys ,,, and i,v won some,,,i would rather race 20 and not win,,than race two and win,,,but ,,some make a living at collecting them,,
I know of a boat racer who thought he was wronged ,,and ordered himself a trophy anyway,,lolol only in offshore ,,cars have classes ,,you build to class,,planes have classes ,,you build to class,,,motorcycles have classes ,,you build to class,,,hydro,s and runnabouts have classes ,,you build to class,,,offshore ,,soon their will be COLOR CLASSES..LOLOL have a great day all,,,,,,

[Ratickle]

I know of a boat racer who thought he was wronged ,,and ordered himself a trophy ,,,,,

....

[heater63]

George does that mean I will have to run against you? My boat is red white and blue also.Oh NO! that means we would have to let daredevil in our class too! Damn you and I will never win another race now LOL!!!!!!

[imco offshore]

well look at the bright side ,,we can enter 3 classes at one time ,,,,,,,,like some do now lolol

[Bilgerat]

You got to have a packed trophy case next to your pictures. :willy_nilly:

I remember the first trophy I got. It was for Exceptional shifting at a local drag race track. I was probably 8 or 9. Everyone left with a trophy. :driving:

Looking back I don't remember anything about the day but, I sure smiled just now as I picked it up and looked at it. :sifone:

I'm guessing I will never understand you.
Yeah I have my share of Shootout Plaques, I think they are stacked up downstairs in my shop. And I remember fairly well who I actually ran against to obtain the lil plaque. There was competition back then.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I'm guessing I will never understand you.


Some race for trophies while others race for the competition. Shame is these days more trophies are given for participating then competing.

The part I will never understand is how the guys that collect them without defeating anyone can be proud of anything. They are deceiving themselves, their fans and sponsors.

That's right trophies make you feel good. :sifone:

Shame on the orgs that allow people to collect two different class trophies from one run of their boat.. Or award 1st place trophies in classes with only one boat....Just give them a I was there T shirt. That is all they deserve.

[mdkeywest]

. :
Shame on people in classes with only one boat....Just give them a I was there T shirt. That is all they deserve.

Now that ,s funny stuff !:cheers2:

( While there are some . no doubt , who abuse the whole running alone thing! :toetap05:
There are others who are expecting competition ,they just never show !
I still salute those whom continually show up ,keeping their end of the smack talk .
Just cause you got a race boat doesnt make you an active racer .Money ,drivers , work ,ALL come into play these day,s .)

So don,t us, We ,etc. , < ........... pick on the ones who do show up every time .:driving:

[Racerguymiami]

Looks like he was running 105 today also. Either that, or the rest of the class had seaweed wrapped in their props.

[Ratickle]

Looks like he was running 105 today also. Either that, or the rest of the class had seaweed wrapped in their props.

Probably forgot to change the motors back out.......

[earthwerks]

Then the sun print boat is even faster because he was in front of us until he broke

[mdkeywest]

Then the sun print boat is even faster because he was in front of us until he broke

No , It,s just the guys in the sunprint boat know how to get every MPH out of their 496 .:driving:

[Ratickle]

Then the sun print boat is even faster because he was in front of us until he broke

Were you in the boat with Doc, Dan?? Cool if you were.

[Ratickle]

Then the sun print boat is even faster because he was in front of us until he broke


No , It,s just the guys in the sunprint boat know how to get every MPH out of their 496 .:driving:

Steve is definitely fast. Last year in Key West he had it until he broke too....

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Looks like Doc was the big winner of the day with two 1st place trophies. WOW!!!

Team Geico brings home 2 First place Trophies with their 2 boats. If they pay registration on their Pace boat maybe they can bring home three 1st place trophies every race.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Just Noticed Daredevil deserves a thumbs up. He ran more miles then either Geico boat and brings home a second place in his class.

Good thing those Geico boats didn't have to race Daredevil.

[Ratickle]

Just Noticed Daredevil deserves a thumbs up. He ran more miles then either Geico boat and brings home a second place in his class.

Good thing those Geico boats didn't have to race Daredevil.

:sifone: Now that's a bit rough.......:sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Well if they raced class 4 that day they would have got 4th and 6th in their xtreme boats. Good thing they run in their own class.

[Dunbar 104]

Looks like Doc was the big winner of the day with two 1st place trophies. WOW!!!

Team Geico brings home 2 First place Trophies with their 2 boats. If they pay registration on their Pace boat maybe they can bring home three 1st place trophies every race.

Jim on average how many trophies does a trophy collector need?

[earthwerks]

Yes I was In the boat with Doc and literally took my hat of to Steve M at the crane to say how impressed I was, being in one of those boats and seeing how well he runs. It took a few laps for me to figure out how to turn that boat but it was very exciting. And for the record anyone who says I was cheating is guaranteed to take a swim when I see them

[Ratickle]

Yes I was In the boat with Doc and literally took my hat of to Steve M at the crane to say how impressed I was, being in one of those boats and seeing how well he runs. It took a few laps for me to figure out how to turn that boat but it was very exciting. And for the record anyone who says I was cheating is guaranteed to take a swim when I see them

Congrats Dan.....

[TYPHOON]

The only person that can be accountable as a cheater is the owner of any given boat. That makes you safe Dan.

[TYPHOON]

PS congrats on your win !!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I only saw a few pix and the times. I am glad to see Doc running his boat so well. You two should make a great team. You can both run each of your boats. I hope that is your KW plan. I think that would be impressive.

Congrats to you both.

[mdkeywest]

Looks like Doc was the big winner of the day with two 1st place trophies. WOW!!!

Team Geico brings home 2 First place Trophies with their 2 boats. If they pay registration on their Pace boat maybe they can bring home three 1st place trophies every race.

Why The Beat down on Geico ??? Really ! They just show up , and race .If the other,s are Afraid to show up , then write that!!!!!:huh:



:driving::D

[mdkeywest]

Just Noticed Daredevil deserves a thumbs up. He ran more miles then either Geico boat and brings home a second place in his class.

Good thing those Geico boats didn't have to race Daredevil.

OK ! I see it now .

You were only teasing " Team Geico " I guess when your,e the best at something ,others will talk you down ,since they can,t back up the smack !:party::D