Paging MacGyver - electrical question...

[Buoy]

Rick -I have two outlet boxes in the back of my house (exterior), they are both wired, and hot.
They just had flat cover plates on them, and I want outlets out there. Everything checks out, weathertight boxes, 12g wire, plastic conduit underground.
I picked up a leviton GFI, and another leviton outlet to install with weatherproof cover plates. hooked them up yesterday, and the GFI pops immediately when power is put to it. Everything looks fine to me. I'm not a Master electrician, but not a novice either. I have the line/load running correctly to the GFI (checked this morning). I have the grounds tied together, and a ground pigtail running to the GFI outlet, but the GFI won't reset, it just pops as soon as it see's power.
SO, what's my problem?? And, what do I need to do to further diagnose/rectify this problem??

[old377guy]

Is the circuit breaker servicing that circuit already a GFIC breaker?

[Buoy]

not sure.
I'm not popping any breakers, and I'm not 100% on which circuit these two are run on. I just shut off several that I know are in the general area of the house, and checked to make sure the circuit wasn't live before hooking it up.
The GFI is just popping at the outlet. I'm assuming it is doing exactly what is supposed to do. I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do to fix it. These two outlets are going to supply a flat screen and a stereo when I put in the hot-tub:hurray::cheers2:

[Buoy]

It's a 200amp service panel that is FULL.
No GFI breakers, but about 3-4 AFCI breakers. I still haven't figured those out either...:confused:

[MacGyver]

Hi Tim, first off, all GFCI receptacles trip when power is applied for the first time. Second, I'm not a big fan of Leviton GFCI's. I've seen many junk ones right out of the box and you could just have a bad one. We use Pass & Seymour devices with great success. A simple fix is to look in the box and make sure when you pushed the device into the box that the ground didn't touch the GFCI's neutral terminal (line or load) which will cause a trip. If the GFCI is working correctly, try disconnecting the "load" going to the second receptacle and see if the GFCI holds. If it does the UF cable going to the second cable most likely has a minor nick or major damage (how good was that irrigation system install :D). The only thing you could do is install a GFCI outlet at both locations, but that still doesn't address why it was tripping in the first place.

Good luck, GFCI's can be a pain to troubleshoot.

[MacGyver]

Is the circuit breaker servicing that circuit already a GFIC breaker?

That doesn't matter, a GFI breaker can feed a GFI receptacle with no issues.

[old377guy]

:iagree:Do what Mac says

[MacGyver]

It's a 200amp service panel that is FULL.
No GFI breakers, but about 3-4 AFCI breakers. I still haven't figured those out either...:confused:

AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters) breakers are now required for new construction. The "sense" a loose connection that is arcing and will open the circuit, stopping a potential fire and saving your house, and they are ridiculously expensive right now.

[Bobcat]

Always wear gold jewelry and stand in a puddle of water when messin with elektricity.:confused:

[Ratickle]

The other issue could be the connection of the wires themsleves.

New GFCI's have to be connected as the instructions say. If you are going from a GFCI to a GFCi it has to be one set of terminals, if to a regular outlet next, I believe it is a different set. And if it is the last one on the line, it is the same as the one or the other, I don't remember which.

Or something like that, it's been awhile since I've done electrical wiring.

Do you have the instructions?

[MacGyver]

The other issue could be the connection of the wires themsleves.

New GFCI's have to be connected as the instructions say. If you are going from a GFCI to a GFCi it has to be one set of terminals, if to a regular outlet next, I believe it is a different set. And if it is the last one on the line, it is the same as the one or the other, I don't remember which.

Or something like that, it's been awhile since I've done electrical wiring.

Do you have the instructions?

Going from one GFCI to another GFCI, all wires go to the "Line" connection on the device. If going to a standard duplex receptacle downstream, the the line and load connections must be made accordingly.

[Ratickle]

Going from one GFCI to another GFCI, all wires go to the "Line" connection on the device. If going to a standard duplex receptacle downstream, the the line and load connections must be made accordingly.

Thanks. What about the end of the line?

[MacGyver]

Always wear gold jewelry and stand in a puddle of water when messin with elektricity.:confused:

Actually, Silver is the best conductor of electricity. Just sayin' :bump:

[MacGyver]

Thanks. What about the end of the line?
All standard receptacle downstream of the GFCI go to the "load" terminals of the GFCI. If every receptacle on the circuit is a GFCI, then they all get connected to the "line" terminals.

[Bobcat]

Actually, Silver is the best conductor of electricity. Just sayin' :bump:

As long as we agree about the puddle of water:bump:

[MacGyver]

As long as we agree about the puddle of water:bump:

Even dry concrete will conduct electricity, don't ask me how I know :smash:

[Buoy]

I pulled the GFI outlet while still wired, and the ground is not hitting the neutral. Didn't fool with the outlet that is downstream. It could be grounding to neutral - I'll have to check that.
I'm also unsure about... the outlet downstream (the LINE off the GFCI) has another line coming out of it - not sure where it goes.
All this was wire nutted together without actual outlets, just flat cover plates over the boxes. And everything around the house was/is
working.
On the AFCI breakers, I have one showing an indicator "light", but I'm not sure what to do to fix it. It's not popping, or any issues.
I also have two 3-way circuits in the house that I haven't invested enough time to figure out why they only partially work...
I know, this makes it sound like the house is a basket case, but actually, it's built like a brick chit-house. The previous owner just thought he was a savvy electrician and tried to go over the top for simple functions.
i.e. - every phucking light has a slide dimmer AS WELL as a on/off swicth. All five ceiling fans have dimmers and three position speed switches.
I even have recessed can lights in the kitchen that can also be touch switched to a timer.
WAY the phuck more than I need, and way more complicated than it needs to be to turn on a light or a fan.

The irrigation system is a whole other matter. I have it 80% figured out and running good. 6-stage sprinkler system. The guy spent some money putting all this together, I guess my gain. It would cost me twice, maybe three times as much to build this place as what I bought it for.
I'm really thankful that God shined down on me for this one.

[MacGyver]

I pulled the GFI outlet while still wired, and the ground is not hitting the neutral. Didn't fool with the outlet that is downstream. It could be grounding to neutral - I'll have to check that.
I'm also unsure about... the outlet downstream (the LINE off the GFCI) has another line coming out of it - not sure where it goes.All this was wire nutted together without actual outlets, just flat cover plates over the boxes.

If thats not on the "load" side, that will not cause the GFCI to trip.

[MacGyver]

Tim, get it figured out yet?

[Buoy]

no, not yet - but thanks for asking.
This is one of those things I work on over a weekend. It's not a pressing issue, but I do want to get it corrected, so I'll get back on it this weekend.
I'll keep you posted.

[MacGyver]

Cool, good luck!

[TUCK646]

Ok its 9 months, 30 some odd weekends, the suspense is killing me. What was the problem?

[Buoy]

I encountered a medical issue that put me out of commission.
This has been pretty low on my list of projects.

[TUCK646]

Sorry to hear that Buoy, hope it's nothing too serious. If you haven't already, just beat it. Good luck & godspeed.

[old377guy]

Tim, I hope things turn out ok for you - Jeff

[Buoy]

Thanks guys.

I just started my second round of 60 sessions of Physical/Occupational therapy this morning.
I'm happy that I was able to start driving (surface streets) just a few weeks ago.

It's unlikely that I'll ever be 100% again. It was pretty serious.

I never mentioned it on the board, only a few people knew, because I decided I just need to deal with it and work through it...

Thanks for the well wishes. With all my wife's support, I'll get through this.

[fund razor]

You "outed" yourself on an "outage" thread? Poetic. :)

Keep giving the Physical Terrorists hell and tearing up the desert cranking Yngwie. :o

[Bobcat]

At his age he's more into Yanni!:leaving:

[Buoy]

Yngwie was incredible, have the first three albums on vinyl.
Yanni, not so much.
Been rolling down the dirt roads listening to Junkyard - the music just fits.

Who would have thought a 40yr old guy in good shape would have a major stroke.
Phuckin blood pressure and an ex-wife...

[Bobcat]

I hear ya .....sorry about the Yanni reference....Paul put me up to it !