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BBB725
11-01-2010, 11:28 AM
DETROIT – Pontiac, whose muscle cars drag-raced down boulevards, parked at drive-ins and roared across movie screens, is going out of business on Sunday.
The 84-year-old brand, moribund since General Motors decided to kill it last year as it collapsed into bankruptcy, had been in decline for years. It was undone by a combination of poor corporate strategy and changing driver tastes. On Oct. 31, GM's agreements with Pontiac dealers expire.
Even before GM's bankruptcy, Pontiac's sales had fallen from their peak of nearly one million in 1968, when the brand's speedier models were prized for their powerful engines and scowling grills.
At Pontiac's pinnacle, models like the GTO, Trans Am and Catalina 2+2 were packed with horsepower and sported colors like "Tiger Gold." Burt Reynolds and Sally Field fled the law in a Firebird Trans Amwhich raced through the 1970s hit movie "Smokey and the Bandit."
By the late 1980s, though, Pontiacs were taking off their muscle shirts, putting on suits and trying to act like other cars. The brand had lost its edge.
Bill Hoglund, a retired GM executive who led Pontiac during its "We Build Excitement" ad campaigns in the 1980s, blames the brand's demise on a reorganization under CEO Roger Smith in 1984. That overhaul cut costs by combining Pontiac's manufacturing, engineering and design operations with those of other GM brands.
"There was no passion for the product," says Hoglund. "The product had to fit what was going on in the corporate system."
Although the moves were necessary to fend off competition from Japanese automakers with lower costs, they yielded Pontiacs that looked and drove like other GM cars.
By 2008, the last full year before GM announced Pontiac's shutdown, sales were 267,000, less than a third of those sold in 1968.
Formed in 1926, Pontiac made cars for the working class until a sales slump in the 1950s nearly killed it. GM revived the brand by connecting it to auto racing. From then on, each Pontiac sales boom was driven by speed; each bust generally featured outdated or boring rides.
The brand's most storied muscle car, the GTO, came about when some GM engineers took a small car called the Tempest and put a powerful V8 engine under the hood. The letters stood for "Gran Turismo Omologato," Italian for "ready to race."
Sparked by the GTO, the Pontiac brand thrived, making up 17 percent of the 5.4 million cars and trucks GM sold in the U.S. in 1968. The GTO even spawned its own 1960s hit song.
"C'mon and turn it on, wind it up, blow it out GTO," was the chorus of the tune by Ronny and the Daytonas.
Pontiac's decline stemmed from a lack of a consistent strategy or leadership. Executives rotated through every few years on their way up the corporate ladder, each with a different vision. Some even tried to make Pontiac a luxury brand.
One strategy that eventually hurt the brand was rebadging: putting the guts of less powerful GM cars inside the skins of Pontiacs.
Big economic shifts also damaged the brand. Two gas spikes in the 1970s steered Americans toward smaller cars with more fuel-efficient engines, areas dominated by Japanese automakers in the U.S.
About two dozen unsold Pontiacs now linger at dealerships around the country, including a maroon G5 coupe that sits awkwardly in a no-man's land between used cars and new models next to the showroom at Orr GM Superstore near Little Rock, Ark. The car, which is really just a poky Chevrolet Cobalt gussied up with a spoiler, fancy wheels and the red arrowhead Pontiac logo, has been on the lot for more than 700 days. Sales Manager Alex Valencia has knocked almost $7,000 off the sticker price, down to $16,585.
Despite spells of success during the last 30 years, Pontiac never returned to its supercharged sales of the 1960s.
A low point was the late 1990s, when Pontiac came up with Aztek, an attempt to merge campers with SUVs and win over young, outdoorsy Americans. The vehicle, which seemed more like a cross between a minivan and armored car, flopped.
In the mid-2000s, GM tried to rekindle the brand with powerful sedans, such as the G8, which harkened back to the GTO. But dealers wanted a full model lineup, and GM gave them renamed Chevrolets, diluting Pontiac's performance image, says Bob Lutz, GM's former product guru who headed up the effort to reinvigorate Pontiac.
This year, Pontiac's sales are less than 1 percent of the 2.2 million cars and trucks GM is expected to sell. GM built the last Pontiac in May.
Even after their Pontiac agreements expire, GM dealers will continue to service the cars and honor their warranties. But after this weekend, any new Pontiacs that remain on dealer lots will be considered used cars by GM.
Anthony "Tony" Augelli, owner of a Pontiac-GMC-Buick dealer in Gurnee, Ill., near Chicago, still has a gleaming orange 2009 Solstice roadster that's the first car to greet customers in his showroom. Despite its prime perch, the $32,000 car hasn't sold.
Augelli gets emotional when speaking of Pontiac's end.
"I miss it already," he says.

htrdlncn
11-01-2010, 12:10 PM
First Oldsmobile, the oldest American car maker and now Pontiac..
Sign of the times..

BBB725
11-01-2010, 12:59 PM
IMHO, GM needs to stream line the entire operation, Enclave and Acadia are the same car, why produce two different front ends, rear ends interiors......etc. Same applies to the Firebird/Camaro cut some costs and produce one. Then again I could be wrong:)

Bobcat
11-01-2010, 04:19 PM
The 68 Trans Am is still one of my favorite cars.

inbetween
11-01-2010, 09:08 PM
IMHO, GM needs to stream line the entire operation, Enclave and Acadia are the same car, why produce two different front ends, rear ends interiors......etc.

Add to that the Buick Enclave and Chevy Traverse, and if it matters any more, the Saturn Outlook. Was there ever a need for five different same vehicles?

(And the car companies went bankrupt why?)

Edward R. Cozzi
11-02-2010, 10:03 AM
My big problem with Pontiac Motor Division was makng the new GTOs look like Acuras instead of the retro look of the 1966 or '67 GTO. Shouldn't have scrapped the Pontiac
V-8 either. Amazing the Cadillacs and Buicks seem to be getting better every year. I bitched about no 2 door coupes and finally there's a CTS!

Awaken
11-02-2010, 10:19 AM
The first Trans Am was 1969 1/2. I had a hard top (they only made 690 or so and only six were convertibles). Ram Air III, four speed, posi rear..... I sold the car when I got married, kids, bought a house, etc. Decided I had to cut down on my toys and at least the boat was more "family" friendly. Long been divorced, kept the house and kids, but wish I never sold my car. Every once in a blue moon I see one auctioned on Barret Jackson and I think.......

Edward R. Cozzi
11-02-2010, 10:41 AM
Cars I actually owned and sold for one reason or another: (and wish I had back!)

1967 Corvette Roadster 427/390hp
1967 Pontiac GTO convertible - red 400 A/T
1963 Olds Starfire coupe
1965 Chevy Impala SS
1965 Olds 98 convertible

...and these are just the ones that come to mind right away.

htrdlncn
11-02-2010, 10:53 AM
My big problem with Pontiac Motor Division was makng the new GTOs look like Acuras instead of the retro look of the 1966 or '67 GTO.

They (Pontiac) didnt do anything except import a great all around car and try to market it as a Pontiac musclecar from the 60s.
Putting Pontiac badges and bumper on an australian Holden was the mistake. Purists wanted the "look" of the original breadbox GTO's and were unwilling to accept a modern looking coupe.. Look at the Camaro,Challenger and Mustang,, basically rehashed 40 year old designs ..
It should have been sold as modern sports coupe as it is in Australia instead of letting Pontiac sell it. I firmly believe there is a market for modern looking sports V8 american cars,sedans,coupes,etc..

To make things worse Pontiac even made the suspension softer , reasoning they gave was Americans wouldnt like the stiffer aussie suspension. Making everyone who bought one wonder why it rode so soft and then have to go and buy the correct aussie parts.

Aussies have tons of hot rod sedans,coupes stationwagons,El Caminoes from both Holden and Ford with high hp big honking V8s available to them,
except for the rebadged GTO and the G8 none of those are available to us ..
We do have plenty of huge lumbering behemoth SUVs though..
The G8 is available with the LS7 427 from the Corvette over there:
http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/hsv-w427-ls7-powered-commodore-sedan-goes-into-production_100209198_m.jpg
Now THAT is excitement..

I think there is enough market for both retro rods and modern designs with big V8 power.
You reference "Acura" looking, considering how much better Acuras sell than Pontiacs
that may have not been a bad thing. :)



Here is/was mine with the correct HSV front end at the HotRodPowerTour
and leaving for the SSHS shootout in Ga.
http://www.hotrodlincoln.org/sshs6.jpg
http://peddersusa.com/images/HRPT2006/HSVGTOFront.gif
http://www.hotrodlincoln.org/hsvsig2.jpg

BBB725
11-02-2010, 11:44 AM
Cars I actually owned and sold for one reason or another: (and wish I had back!)

1967 Corvette Roadster 427/390hp
1967 Pontiac GTO convertible - red 400 A/T
1963 Olds Starfire coupe
1965 Chevy Impala SS
1965 Olds 98 convertible

...and these are just the ones that come to mind right away.

So all these were bought new?:biggrinjester:

Sorry Ed couldn't resist, btw we have a guy at work that still owns a 63 Starfire

htrdlncn
11-02-2010, 12:12 PM
Wish I still had my high school ride though it did get me the downpayment for my first house!
(didnt buy it new,it was 8 years old when I bought it :) )

1972 442 W30 convt auto, 1 of 62
http://www.hotrodlincoln.org/FranksW30.jpg

rschap1
11-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Loved the Ponchos
My most favorite car I ever owned was my 1979 Trans Am...no, not black and gold, "nocturn blue". No, no screaming chicken, decal was removed from the hood.
Had a 1980 Formula that was SHARP too. The 301 sucked and got replaced with an earlier 400.
Had a 1995 Formula that was an LT1 car, fast and fun ride too. VERY sad to see them go, remember PONTIAC-we build excitment.
HotRod did a bye bye article on Mercury now too. Ford pulled their plug.

fund razor
11-02-2010, 03:23 PM
Wish I still had my high school ride though it did get me the downpayment for my first house!
(didnt buy it new,it was 8 years old when I bought it :) )

1972 442 W30 convt auto, 1 of 62
http://www.hotrodlincoln.org/FranksW30.jpg

My best friend in high school had a 1972 Lemans. Not as nice as the 442 but same lines and front clip. Classic. Fun car. Yours made me think of those days immediately.

Mom had a 1978 Formula. That was a fun car too.

fund razor
11-02-2010, 03:27 PM
Cars I actually owned and sold for one reason or another: (and wish I had back!)

1967 Corvette Roadster 427/390hp
.

That one would hurt the most for me. Always loved that car.

poncho
11-03-2010, 08:48 PM
That one would hurt the most for me. Always loved that car.

I'll second this!!!! 1967 Corvette Roadster is possibly the best looking American car. Actually Vette's in general are good looking. I'm still contemplating leasing a new one.

GM could have just done with Pontiac what they did with the Corvette and it would be alive and o.k today. Developed a distinct brand in look and "feel".

old377guy
11-04-2010, 12:14 AM
Cars I actually owned and sold for one reason or another: (and wish I had back!)

1967 Corvette Roadster 427/390hp
1967 Pontiac GTO convertible - red 400 A/T
1963 Olds Starfire coupe
1965 Chevy Impala SS
1965 Olds 98 convertible

...and these are just the ones that come to mind right away.

and at your age, they may be the only thing that comes to mind!

Slandrew
11-04-2010, 08:43 AM
Sad to see even the big blocks were small blocks:confused:

Slandrew
11-14-2010, 09:30 PM
:(To explain last post if I lost ya all blocks were the same size up to 428 cubes!

goldeneyee
11-15-2010, 10:45 PM
Correction again. All Pontiac blocks were the same up and including the 455 cu inch stump puller. There was no small block--big block unless one was talking cubic inches.......

MacGyver
11-16-2010, 09:10 PM
We were called in to remove a Pontiac emblem sign on a dealership today. Kinda sad to see them going.

inbetween
11-18-2010, 06:45 PM
Our Buick, Pontiac GMC sign was changed to a Buick, GMC sign a couple of weeks ago

Edward R. Cozzi
11-19-2010, 08:22 AM
and at your age, they may be the only thing that comes to mind!

OUCH!

Edward R. Cozzi
11-19-2010, 08:31 AM
You reference "Acura" looking, considering how much better Acuras sell than Pontiacs
that may have not been a bad thing. :)


After the success of marketing a retro looking Mustang, Camaro, T-Bird and some Mopars, I question Pontiacs decision to make the new GTO look like a Japanese generic coupe. Still can't imagine car restorers of the future making parts to restore Jap cars or car clubs dedicated to preserving the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. YOU may enjoy driving those cars, but they do nothing for me.

I assume I'm still entitled to my opinion.

Slandrew
11-19-2010, 08:55 AM
Correction again. All Pontiac blocks were the same up and including the 455 cu inch stump puller. There was no small block--big block unless one was talking cubic inches.......

Correct it was a small block the internals made the cubes!:iamwithstupid:

htrdlncn
11-20-2010, 03:42 AM
YAfter the success of marketing a retro looking Mustang, Camaro, T-Bird and some Mopars, I question Pontiacs decision to make the new GTO look like a Japanese generic coupe.

Pontiac did/had nothing to at ALL to do with the new GTO except slapping an ugly front bumper and ugly rims on an existing Holden vehicle from Australia..
GTO is not now or ever been a Pontiac only name, besides being a race organization other car manufacturers like Ferrari used it before they did, when Bob Lutz saw the hot looking Holden HSV GTO he decided to import it and sell it in the US under the Pontiac name but only after castrating it with an ugly front nose , ugly wheels and silly wing and plastering Pontiac badges on it.
The real aussie HSV GTO is a hot looking and performing car .
The only mistake was trying to sell it under the Pontiac name and not as a Holden which is what it really is. Its a musclecar for people who want a car that looks like it was designed this century and not 40 years ago in the dinosaur era..
http://ih0.redbubble.net/work.1165193.2.flat,550x550,075,f.hsv-gto-coupe-2.jpg

Slandrew
11-20-2010, 09:07 AM
Pontiac did/had nothing to at ALL to do with the new GTO except slapping an ugly front bumper and ugly rims on an existing Holden vehicle from Australia..
GTO is not now or ever been a Pontiac only name, besides being a race organization other car manufacturers like Ferrari used it before they did, when Bob Lutz saw the hot looking Holden HSV GTO he decided to import it and sell it in the US under the Pontiac name but only after castrating it with an ugly front nose , ugly wheels and silly wing and plastering Pontiac badges on it.
The real aussie HSV GTO is a hot looking and performing car .
The only mistake was trying to sell it under the Pontiac name and not as a Holden which is what it really is. Its a musclecar for people who want a car that looks like it was designed this century and not 40 years ago in the dinosaur era..
http://ih0.redbubble.net/work.1165193.2.flat,550x550,075,f.hsv-gto-coupe-2.jpgI like the 40 yr old dinosaurs:beatdeadhorse5:

htrdlncn
11-20-2010, 10:09 PM
I like the 40 yr old dinosaurs:beatdeadhorse5:

Me too, I just dont want my new car to look like one..
Everything has its time and place..

Edward R. Cozzi
11-20-2010, 10:36 PM
I like the 40 yr old dinosaurs:beatdeadhorse5:

+1

Edward R. Cozzi
11-20-2010, 10:37 PM
Me too, I just dont want my new car to look like one..
Everything has its time and place..

So you're offended by the 2010 Camaro look?

htrdlncn
11-21-2010, 01:10 PM
Offended?
Why would I be offended about how a car looks?
I dont like it nor would I buy one but certainly doesnt offend me..
Just my own point of view, If I wanted a car that looked 40 years old I would buy the original .

Edward R. Cozzi
11-22-2010, 08:37 AM
Yes, but the old technology was crap compared to the cars today. I am partners in a 1956 Chevy. The handling is downright SCARY! We are trying to keep it absolutely original down to the bias-ply tires. The retro-look cars are selling because you've got the new technology with the look of a car that reminds us old farts of our youthful years.

Ah, it was a much simpler time back then...

Slandrew
11-22-2010, 09:13 AM
Yes, but the old technology was crap compared to the cars today. I am partners in a 1956 Chevy. The handling is downright SCARY! We are trying to keep it absolutely original down to the bias-ply tires. The retro-look cars are selling because you've got the new technology with the look of a car that reminds us old farts of our youthful years.

Ah, it was a much simpler time back then...True a 1960 Buick drives like a 16' boat on a windy day:cool:I like all the new muscle cars because I guess i'm old fart now:o50/50 old vrs new:huh:Camaro is nice my 02

Playn
11-24-2010, 02:11 AM
My big problem with Pontiac Motor Division was makng the new GTOs look like Acuras instead of the retro look of the 1966 or '67 GTO. Shouldn't have scrapped the Pontiac
V-8 either. Amazing the Cadillacs and Buicks seem to be getting better every year. I bitched about no 2 door coupes and finally there's a CTS!

That was my issue with them as well.

The first car I ever owned I bought in high school in the early 70's. 1967 GTO, 400HO, 4 speed.

Edward R. Cozzi
11-24-2010, 08:58 AM
That was my issue with them as well.

The first car I ever owned I bought in high school in the early 70's. 1967 GTO, 400HO, 4 speed.

I had the same color in a convertible with A/T. I used to pull my 18' Sea Ray around with it!