The Day SVL Died

[Mike A.]

Today. That Fountain SVL is in a class by itself, or at least it should be. No offense to any other v-bottom builders or to Don Aronow, but Reggie is the best ever. The old SVL boats have NO chance of ever beating it, PERIOD. And no one is going to build a new one that can beat it, and if they do, Fountain will simply build the next one even better. Another class destroyed.

So as it is now, no one in their right mind would pay you two cents for your boats as SVL's. Pennies on the dollar maybe as P class boats.
:beatdeadhorse5:

[Slandrew]

It will have to ba an all Fountain class another reason to buy 1:cool:

[Mike A.]

It will have to ba an all Fountain class another reason to buy 1:cool:

Absolutely, just like the twin engine boats. No one can compete against them, and actually no one does. Really, they don't even compete against each other anymore. There were like 6 or 7 of them today and each one I think was racing in their own class. And that Skater looked like a turtle.

[Ratickle]

I think you are a little premature with the demise of the class. However under the current rules, or lack thereof, there is definitely a problem which exists. And, it must be rectified, or you may very well be correct.

Just my two cents......

[Phantom1]

SVL.........R.I.P.

[Sean Stinson]

Pala Pinga Viejo.....in my best cuban accent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[imco offshore]

C.V.L. COMMING SOON

[Mike A.]

Rat - You are a good guy, and optimism is a virtue. But I have been saying this since April so it is not premature to be saying it again 6 months later when the evidence is all in. Predicting that history will repeat itself is not rocket science and that is all I have done.

George - no disrespect, but the whole CVL is coming is old and tired. You guys have had the rules for months. What the hell are you waiting for? Are you all doing this before OB and KW? If not then my advice to the SVL teams are save your money and equipment for next year unless you are just Jonesin' for a boat ride. Otherwise, you are showing up as fodder for the Fountain.

Sean - What can I say; if any team can beat the Fountain it is you and Randy. Go get 'em! (Ouch - sorry, my tongue nearly perforated the side of my cheek.)

[Wahoo 214]

if a tree falls in the forrest with no one around, does it still make noise? Does anyone even care if it does?

[Mike A.]

if a tree falls in the forrest with no one around, does it still make noise? Does anyone even care if it does?

Perfectly said. Evidently, the answer is NO. But, at least if the CVL guys would get off their rumps and pass the rules, OPA could have a good fleet of competitive CVL's where anyone could win, and everyone would have fun. So they sacrifice one boat, big deal, who cares, especially given the one team being sacrificed. After what they did yesterday, driving by Miklos like he was tied to the dock, and lapping Pirate like they were in a two person kayak, if I was a CVL team owner I would give the Fountain team a Bronx cheer and a single digit wave goodbye and be done with it. Can you hear the trees falling now?

[Wardey]

It will have to ba an all Fountain class another reason to buy 1:cool:

I just said this same thing yesterday.

[Mike A.]

I just said this same thing yesterday.

And just to be clear, it would be a very cool class if enough people with money bought the boats. In fact, if I were running a sanctioning body, I would probably work with Fountain to create a single engine Fountain class. I would urge Fountain to lock in their current spec for 5 years. Then I would go out and try to convince all the current owners of the big expensive boats to buy the single engine Fountains and race. You could then build a tight spec, 625hp engine for everyone that would push the boats over 100mph. With the new suspension seats even the current crop of fat old guys could race without beating themselves up too bad. If you could build a class of 20 or more such boats you could then do something pretty cool. One thing for sure is based on yesterday, there is a hunger out there among recreational boaters for good racing.

[earthwerks]

Thread Re-write That Fountain SVL is in a class by itself,*and so is its driver. No offense to any other v-bottom builders or to Don Aronow, but Reggie is the best builder/designer ever, and Brian and Doc run that boat at 110% all the time.* The*old-current SVL teams have NO chance of ever beating*that team, or any other*team that is prepared, tests*continuously,*and is willing to push the boat to the limits at every event.**Face it, the*Fountain crushed and destroyed the one boat in the class that had the longest and strongest*"competitive advantage monopoly".* And then after the race, rather than congratulate the team and the manufacturer for their rough water performance, the looser*of the race again chose to throw more*unsubstantiated accusations of cheating.* The sad reality is that the Fountain wasn't the winner, it can't drive itself.**Brian Forehand and Doc Janssen ran the boat flawlessly and embarrassed the self proclaimed class emperor, who*likely would not have won had he been in the Fountain and had to race Forehand.
*
I can't wait to see the other manufacturers go after Fountain and put professional teams in the boats.* Extreme and Outerlimits are ready for the team that thinks they are up to that*competitive level, and*THEY know that they*CAN compete with the Fountain,*PERIOD.* At last another dynasty is destroyed.
*
Since there has not been a rush of people trying to by 10-year old technology boats, its time to either work on the performance of your current boat, or step-up to this decades technology.* Another two cents worth...
*

[Mike A.]

Thread Re-write That Fountain SVL is in a class by itself,*and so is its driver. No offense to any other v-bottom builders or to Don Aronow, but Reggie is the best builder/designer ever, and Brian and Doc run that boat at 110% all the time.* The*old-current SVL teams have NO chance of ever beating*that team, or any other*team that is prepared, tests*continuously,*and is willing to push the boat to the limits at every event.**Face it, the*Fountain crushed and destroyed the one boat in the class that had the longest and strongest*"competitive advantage monopoly".* And then after the race, rather than congratulate the team and the manufacturer for their rough water performance, the looser*of the race again chose to throw more*unsubstantiated accusations of cheating.* The sad reality is that the Fountain wasn't the winner, it can't drive itself.**Brian Forehand and Doc Janssen ran the boat flawlessly and embarrassed the self proclaimed class emperor, who*likely would not have won had he been in the Fountain and had to race Forehand.
*
I can't wait to see the other manufacturers go after Fountain and put professional teams in the boats.* Extreme and Outerlimits are ready for the team that thinks they are up to that*competitive level, and*THEY know that they*CAN compete with the Fountain,*PERIOD.* At last another dynasty is destroyed.
*
Since there has not been a rush of people trying to by 10-year old technology boats, its time to either work on the performance of your current boat, or step-up to this decades technology.* Another two cents worth...
*

No thanks on the re-write deal. But I will say this: the best part of yesterday was watching the Fountain team freak out that Miklos got in front of them for a lap. We almost fell off our boat watching those guys chine walk, bow steer and nearly crash trying to pass the Extreme so soon. Classic. Real racers, as opposed to ego-maniacs in a forest by themselves, knowing they have more revs, more power, and by far a better boat, take their time. But still, it was hilarious watching this charade from just outside the forest!

BTW - we were laughing just as hard watching you guys futiley chase Brett around with 200 more horsepower and never catching him. But, you guys were racing safe and under controlled, glued to the water, not taking any chances while Brett was racing up front with the Supercats. Now that is a real race team and a pleasure to watch. Unfortunately, we could only bear witness for about 20 minutes. BORING.

[imco offshore]

Since there has not been a rush of people trying to by 10-year old technology boats, its time to either work on the performance of your current boat, or step-up to this decades technology.* Another two cents worth...
* DAN that is a great quote ...and sorry YOU are out of the loop ....BUT 3 OR 4 BOATS HAVE WORKED ON THE 10 YR OLDS ..OMLY TO GET BLIND SIDED BY THE WORLDS GREATEST BOAT RACER TEAM ,,HEY HEY MISTER TECH MAN ,,THEM GUYS ARE WORKING ON THEIR 10 YR OLD BOATS ,,, STOP THEM STOP THEM ,,AFTER ALL WERE ;;THE WORLDS GREATEST BOAT RACER ;;

CAN YOU SAY ,,,WHAT A JOKE,,,

[Mike A.]

Since there has not been a rush of people trying to by 10-year old technology boats, its time to either work on the performance of your current boat, or step-up to this decades technology.* Another two cents worth...
* DAN that is a great quote ...and sorry YOU are out of the loop ....BUT 3 OR 4 BOATS HAVE WORKED ON THE 10 YR OLDS ..OMLY TO GET BLIND SIDED BY THE WORLDS GREATEST BOAT RACER TEAM ,,HEY HEY MISTER TECH MAN ,,THEM GUYS ARE WORKING ON THEIR 10 YR OLD BOATS ,,, STOP THEM STOP THEM ,,AFTER ALL WERE ;;THE WORLDS GREATEST BOAT RACER ;;

CAN YOU SAY ,,,WHAT A JOKE,,,

George,

So, why don't you get off your can, finish the rules, get them approved in phone call and be done with it already.

[imco offshore]

MIKEY,,,,, don,t make me come down their ,,, gimme 72 hrs,,,

[mdkeywest]

MIKEY,,,,, don,t make me come down their ,,, gimme 72 hrs,,,

Now we,re getting somewhere. (You just needed a little nudge:D)

[Mike A.]

MIKEY,,,,, don,t make me come down their ,,, gimme 72 hrs,,,

George, I am just trying to help you guys if you want to maintain the value of your boats, and have fun. I know OPA will honor the class's wishes if they get rules in place for a CVL class before the OB Worlds, but it is not fair to make them wait. The sooner the better for everyone involved.

[imco offshore]

your right ,ALL.S GOOD ..WE,RE IN GOOD SHAPE ,,

[Mike A.]

your right ,ALL.S GOOD ..WE,RE IN GOOD SHAPE ,,

Reminds me of a sales guy who once worked for me: "Yeah Mike, the deal is gonna be hot. Big money. Relax, it's almost done. Contract's being reviewed by legal but that is just a formality. Should be here any day now...oooops, errrr, 'bout that deal."

Just giving you grief, George. I am not telling you what to do, only giving you some advice on what you should do if you and the other racers want to resolve this problem. My main point is that if you are going to do it, then freakin' do it now so you do not put Smitty and John in a tough spot.

[Big Time]

What does CVL stand for?

[Mike A.]

What does CVL stand for?

Classic V Light.

[2TR]

What does CVL stand for?

Classic
Vee
Lite

Or

Cant go fast enough
Vee
Lite


:banghead:

[Bullhead]

Can't beat Fountain
Vee
Lite

[Mike A.]

Damn, you guys are so witty, and right too! But just so I am clear, are you saying that the older boats, which are far slower and totally incapable of beating the Fountain unless it breaks, should nevertheless keep spending their money, and ruin the value of their boats just 'cuz?

[Sean Stinson]

Sean - What can I say; if any team can beat the Fountain it is you and Randy. Go get 'em! (Ouch - sorry, my tongue nearly perforated the side of my cheek.)

Mike I love you too!!!!

[Mike A.]

Mike I love you too!!!!

Drop the "too".

[Racerguymiami]

Who do I need to contact to have our new SVL inspected & homologated?

[mdkeywest]

Who do I need to contact to have our new SVL inspected & homologated?

reggie :boxing_smiley:

[Dunbar 104]

Who do I need to contact to have our new SVL inspected & homologated?

I would just ask Doc. Bring cash

[Dunbar 104]

Who do I need to contact to have our new SVL inspected & homologated?

I forgot to ask. Do you want to race, or just need trophies?

[Bullhead]

Damn, you guys are so witty, and right too! But just so I am clear, are you saying that the older boats, which are far slower and totally incapable of beating the Fountain unless it breaks, should nevertheless keep spending their money, and ruin the value of their boats just 'cuz?

Of course not.....the new class makes perfect since.....kinda like the seniors golf tour....

[Dunbar 104]

Who do I need to contact to have our new SVL inspected & homologated?

If you can't get ahold of Doc just try contacting the 6 other screen names he uses to COMPLIMENT himself.

[Racerguymiami]

I forgot to ask. Do you want to race, or just need trophies?

Am I invited?

[rchevelle71]

Who do I need to contact to have our new SVL inspected & homologated?

I have seen this boat, although not recently, but it is insane, should give Reggie a run for his $$, good luck buddy:D

[Mike A.]

Of course not.....the new class makes perfect since.....kinda like the seniors golf tour....

Not really, the new class only has one boat.

[Mike A.]

I have seen this boat, although not recently, but it is insane, should give Reggie a run for his $$, good luck buddy:D

See, there ya go. Now there are two boats for the P1 class.

[Dunbar 104]

Am I invited?


Hard to tell

Does your boat have a magic sponge in the bottom

How do you feel about other racers looking inside your boat for inspections

Will you allow your boat to be inspected in general. Perfered method is before the hatch is opened after the race.

Does your 525 stop reving at 5450

Has your driver had a memeory, and eye test in the last year.

Does you driver have a history of course navagational errors, or fist/face conflicts at random poker runs.

In the last 6 months have you used the phrase "I will sue you", or "Do you know who I am"

[mdkeywest]

:driving:

[XtremeRacing]

Who do I need to contact to have our new SVL inspected & homologated?

You can call the SBI office or call Richie D , if you plan on racing in KW. The SBI rules are posted on line in thier rule book.

305 296-6166

[2TR]

Hard to tell

Does your boat have a magic sponge in the bottom

How do you feel about other racers looking inside your boat for inspections

Will you allow your boat to be inspected in general. Perfered method is before the hatch is opened after the race.

Does your 525 stop reving at 5450

Has your driver had a memeory, and eye test in the last year.

Does you driver have a history of course navagational errors, or fist/face conflicts at random poker runs.

In the last 6 months have you used the phrase "I will sue you", or "Do you know who I am"



So if the engine was checked, inspected and deemed legal would it be allowed to race with a new owner (if sold)?

[Tyler Crockett]

I heard Reggie was building a new Baja SVL to run in Key West :willy_nilly:

[XtremeRacing]

I heard Reggie was building a new Baja SVL to run in Key West :willy_nilly:

The hull is done, they r working on the deck now. I dont think it will be ready for KW.

[Racerguymiami]

You can call the SBI office or call Richie D , if you plan on racing in KW. The SBI rules are posted on line in thier rule book.

305 296-6166

Thanks. I spoke to John a while back regarding this boat and he had straight forward answers to my questions. Boat was built to SBI guidelines. I'm putting another call into him today.

[Donskihp]

Reggie made a statment awhile back ab out not building a Baja with a steped hull. So is this gonna be a fountain hull with a baja name on it or is it a modified baja hull.

[Mike A.]

The hull is done, they r working on the deck now. I dont think it will be ready for KW.

This is perfect and as it should be. The older boats have their own class and there now is a platform for new equipment supported by the leading v-bottom manufacturer. If the new class grows and the older boats retain their values then everyone wins, plus there are more boats racing which is good for the fans, sanctioning bodies, and race promoters.

This is along the lines of what we did in 1999-2000 when we left the A and B classes intact while growing the new SVL and SV classes.

[Wahoo 214]

Honestly after all this bickering and that is putting it nicely, I still don't see a need for another new class. The old boats have all ignored the rules for several years, so grand father them all in and enforce the rules going forward. If the Fountain is running a Bravo and sealed 525 and weighs more than the other boats, the others need to step their program up or move to C-4. Simple. Why are a handfull of old boats worthy of thier own class when C-4 is already available to them. Are they just after trophies? Who will cover the additional expenses of tech and purse?

[MANITIE]

Honestly after all this bickering and that is putting it nicely, I still don't see a need for another new class. The old boats have all ignored the rules for several years, so grand father them all in and enforce the rules going forward. If the Fountain is running a Bravo and sealed 525 and weighs more than the other boats, the others need to step their program up or move to C-4. Simple. Why are a handfull of old boats worthy of thier own class when C-4 is already available to them. Are they just after trophies? Who will cover the additional expenses of tech and purse?

We have all asked that question....
No more class's....and the Orgs should not have to pick up the bill to accomadate another class for there tech....not to mention to cut the prise money down to the other class's to pay out another class....especally when they show when ever they feel like it....
Class 4 is another big class in OPA...and its great that some of the SVL guys have showed up and race in that class...and did well....
Time Bandit ran good in Solomons and Bruce would have also if he did not ahve a drive issue....and it also showed in LI that the SVL's can run with the guys in Class 4...

Chris...the smart thing to do is stay with the 2 Orgs rules for SVL....talk to Smitty since you already have Johns answer....you will get the answer your looking for....
You have put way to much time and money building that you new boat to keep chasing for answers for the SVL class...

Can't wait to see the boat...

[Mike A.]

Honestly after all this bickering and that is putting it nicely, I still don't see a need for another new class. The old boats have all ignored the rules for several years, so grand father them all in and enforce the rules going forward. If the Fountain is running a Bravo and sealed 525 and weighs more than the other boats, the others need to step their program up or move to C-4. Simple. Why are a handfull of old boats worthy of thier own class when C-4 is already available to them. Are they just after trophies? Who will cover the additional expenses of tech and purse?

I actually agree that there should not be another class. But you have it backwards. SVL was fine until the Fountain was dropped on the class's lap days before the first event in violation of existing rules. The teams tried to accomodate the new guys who were anything but gracious. The existing class is actually made up of the so-called old boats. So, now the one boat can go race C-4, C-3 or C-2, not the other way around.

But hey, if the Fountain and P1 can make a go of a new class and it benefits everyone then great.

[Wahoo 214]

Mike, I see your point, but who approved the Fountain? It must have met the rules and if the current racers are saying that all three Orgs, SBI, OSS and OPA are breaking their own rules for one boat I highly doubt that.

Enforce the rules and if you can't win go to C4. Simple.

[2TR]

Mike, I see your point, but who approved the Fountain? It must have met the rules and if the current racers are saying that all three Orgs, SBI, OSS and OPA are breaking their own rules for one boat I highly doubt that.

Enforce the rules and if you can't win go to C4. Simple.



The boat/hull was approved according to OSS/SBI rules. (?)

So the boat is just "better" than the older boats and it's kicked out. (?)

[Mike A.]

Mike, I see your point, but who approved the Fountain? It must have met the rules and if the current racers are saying that all three Orgs, SBI, OSS and OPA are breaking their own rules for one boat I highly doubt that.

Enforce the rules and if you can't win go to C4. Simple.

I am not saying that OPA broke any rules.

OSS has been a joke since its inception principally because of Mike T. I guarantee you they did not follow their homologation rules with respect to the Fountain. Neither did SBI, and they employ an inspector who is more concerned with a swim platform than with another boat that destroys the fleet. Brilliant.

Personally, I think the sport is so stupid today that there should not be any actual classes other than the speed bracket ones. But hey, if 8-10 guys want to form a club for their boats, they should be free to do so. If a sanctioning body wants that business then all it has to do is agree to the club's terms. If the sanctioning body does not want that business under the club's terms then it can say so and take a chance that more than one boat will show up.

But having been in the position of race promoter and sanctioning body president, I can tell you the decision should be easy - adopt the strategy that gets the most boats. If it pisses off or excludes one guy, too bad, especially if the one guy is a real jackwagon.

[Bullhead]

Not really, the new class only has one boat.

wow...I thought the CVL was the new class of old boats.....this boat racing stuff sure is complicated :confused::rolleyes:

[Wahoo 214]

I agree with almost all of that with one big exception. No more new classes. There are already enough guys that just want a trophy. And the race sites are also over burdened with the current costs.

[Wahoo 214]

The boat/hull was approved according to OSS/SBI rules. (?)

So the boat is just "better" than the older boats and it's kicked out. (?)

I know this will not be popular, but can the Team just be better? Seriously.

[Mike A.]

I agree with almost all of that with one big exception. No more new classes. There are already enough guys that just want a trophy. And the race sites are also over burdened with the current costs.

Completely agree. If Martin can get his P1 thing going then I would consider a new class provided there were enough boats to justify it. Otherwise, let the Doc race in P class. As awesome as he and his guy are at running the boat, and as fast as it is, they could be competitive in P3 and maybe even P2.

[Mike A.]

I know this will not be popular, but can the Team just be better? Seriously.

Oh, make no mistake, they can really run that boat. They may even be the best team out there, but it is impossible to tell because their equipment is just so superior. If you are asking me whether they are winning because they are better, I can say unequivocally, the answer is NO. They are winning because the boat is far and away the best piece out there, they spend a lot of time balancing it and testing it, and they run it really hard. But I can also say without doubt, if you put them in one of the other boats, and one of the top SVL teams in the Fountain, the result will be exactly the same - the Fountain wins.

[Ratickle]

I know this will not be popular, but can the Team just be better? Seriously.

Doubtful.

But, they test that boat more in one week than most of the guys and girls have total seat time this year.

[Pete B]

Completely agree. If Martin can get his P1 thing going then I would consider a new class provided there were enough boats to justify it. Otherwise, let the Doc race in P class. As awesome as he and his guy are at running the boat, and as fast as it is, they could be competitive in P3 and maybe even P2.

Seeing it runs 103 MPH it should run P-2, I remember a 24 Skater with twin 200"s having to run P-2.

[Mike A.]

Seeing it runs 103 MPH it should run P-2, I remember a 24 Skater with twin 200"s having to run P-2.

Is that back when the LLC P class rules were based on top speed, P2 was for boats that ran 90-100mph, and that boat ran over 90? Is that also back when the LLC averaged 40+ P class boats per event? Just wondering.:bump:

[Wahoo 214]

Doubtful.

But, they test that boat more in one week than most of the guys and girls have total seat time this year.

They also have exprience and a huge budget.

New Tech + Experience + Testing + Factory Support + $$$$$ = Azz Kicking

Sounds like it is time for the rest to step it up or fit into another class

[MANITIE]

Mike....I like your idea...
Let them do there own thing...if the Orgs want them, let them race...if they don't let them find somewhere else to race or let them run Class 4 or whatever rules John wants them to run under...
Remember this is the same class that ran off from APBA when they had somewere else to race...
Lets remember...
They only did 2 OPA races...and if you ask people...there were not to many plus's to it..with the unprofessionalism seens at the awards...the blamming of OPA's tech..and so on...and did they even run a SBI race..
I'm not saying a select couple like Steve, Doc or Pirate...I'm saying the 9+ boats they are supposta have...
If the Orgs want them..they will be welcomed in...
But do you want to bet if OSS had a full 6 or 7 race schedule...OPA or SBI would not even be a issue right now...or the rules for that matter..

[Mike A.]

They also have exprience and a huge budget.

New Tech + Experience + Testing + Factory Support + $$$$$ = Azz Kicking

Sounds like it is time for the rest to step it up or fit into another class

The other boats cannot step it up without adding steps, pads, notched transoms, and bulk. Sounds to me like it is time for the one boat that does not meet the spec of the entire fleet to move to another class.

Perhaps you can help me understand your perspective: Why do 8-10 good running boats need to move elsewhere? Why not let the one boat that really does not fit with the others move? My formula keeps a class of 8-10 boats together. Your formula gives us another class with one boat in it. Isn't there enough of that?

At the end of the day, I suspect this is just an exercise in futility. The old SVL boats will try a few more times to chase the Fountain around, then retire, and another class will be dead just like the title to this thread says.

[imco offshore]

They also have exprience and a huge budget.

New Tech + Experience + Testing + Factory Support + $$$$$ = Azz Kicking

Sounds like it is time for the rest to step it up or fit into another class

well i,v sat here long enough,,Dean you have no idea what your talking about,!!period ,,,
their has been 3 or 4 teams who have spent time and money to step it up ,,only to have your ' super team ' ,,cry and complain,,,tech man ,,tech man ,,those guys are working on their 10 yr old boats trying to stay up with us ,,please stop them ,,,, as for deluting your purse ,,again not ,,,opa has offered 1000 dollars to any team who shows up ,,,,WHATS THE DIFFERANCE OF THE NAME OF THE CLASS ??

GINO ,,SOMe HOW we KNEW YOU COULD NOT SIT TOO LONG WITHOUT TELLING US ALL YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM,,,
WE have talked to the OPA and are welcome ,,, sorry you were not informed,,
we.ll do our best to keep you in the loop..:seeya:
YOU GUYS HAVE NOT BEEN INFORMED ,,SORRY ,,:cheers2:

[Ron P]

Is this a done deal? If so, I appaude you guys for finally settling on a rule book. Are we supposed to enforce this new rule book in Orange Beach? Where can I get a copy of it?

See ya next week! It's gonna be a busy weekend.

[Wahoo 214]

The other boats cannot step it up without adding steps, pads, notched transoms, and bulk. Sounds to me like it is time for the one boat that does not meet the spec of the entire fleet to move to another class.

Perhaps you can help me understand your perspective: Why do 8-10 good running boats need to move elsewhere? Why not let the one boat that really does not fit with the others move? My formula keeps a class of 8-10 boats together. Your formula gives us another class with one boat in it. Isn't there enough of that?

At the end of the day, I suspect this is just an exercise in futility. The old SVL boats will try a few more times to chase the Fountain around, then retire, and another class will be dead just like the title to this thread says.

Mike,

They have already altered their bottoms, decks, transom and nearly everything else. So let it be open season on the hull, since it is already, and save SVL. If not enforce the rules and fill C4. You will have one boat in SVL until more new ones are built. Why add more classes and have one less boat and no new ones being built when you can use what is there. It saves the site and orgs money while creating a better show. That is my perspective.

[Wahoo 214]

[QUOTE=imco offshore;525104]well i,v sat here long enough,,Dean you have no idea what your talking about,!!period ,,,
their has been 3 or 4 teams who have spent time and money to step it up ,,only to have your ' super team ' ,,cry and complain,,,tech man ,,tech man ,,those guys are working on their 10 yr old boats trying to stay up with us ,,please stop them ,,,, as for deluting your purse ,,again not ,,,opa has offered 1000 dollars to any team who shows up ,,,,WHATS THE DIFFERANCE OF THE NAME OF THE CLASS ??
QUOTE]

George,

They are not my "super team". I have never even met Doc. The "cry"ing goes on in all the spec classes. The refusing tech thing is your fault or the Orgs. Since SVL has it's own rule book and you chose your own schedule, Your class Pres should have DQ'd them. I believe The $1000 is at this point only for OB, so what about after that? What about the remaining $$ of the purse which is to be split over the class winners. Do you expect a piece of that?

You are right, I know nothing of your class other than what has been aired here and seen first hand at awards banquets, but I am a firm believer that your boats fit into an existing class and the sport has too many classes and whinners already.

[Mike A.]

Mike,

They have already altered their bottoms, decks, transom and nearly everything else. So let it be open season on the hull, since it is already, and save SVL. If not enforce the rules and fill C4. You will have one boat in SVL until more new ones are built. Why add more classes and have one less boat and no new ones being built when you can use what is there. It saves the site and orgs money while creating a better show. That is my perspective.

Hey no problem. I still do not get what you're saying but what do I know anyway? What I tried failed!!! And with that ...
:leaving:

[MANITIE]

well i,v sat here long enough,,Dean you have no idea what your talking about,!!period ,,,
their has been 3 or 4 teams who have spent time and money to step it up ,,only to have your ' super team ' ,,cry and complain,,,tech man ,,tech man ,,those guys are working on their 10 yr old boats trying to stay up with us ,,please stop them ,,,, as for deluting your purse ,,again not ,,,opa has offered 1000 dollars to any team who shows up ,,,,WHATS THE DIFFERANCE OF THE NAME OF THE CLASS ??

GINO ,,SOMe HOW we KNEW YOU COULD NOT SIT TOO LONG WITHOUT TELLING US ALL YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM,,,
WE have talked to the OPA and are welcome ,,, sorry you were not informed,,
we.ll do our best to keep you in the loop..:seeya:
YOU GUYS HAVE NOT BEEN INFORMED ,,SORRY ,,:cheers2:

Funny George...This has nothing to do with resisting...it has to do with all your crying...that last time I asked you a question and you told me you will let me know when you were ready...I was informed by 1 Org the deal within hours of your post...and then found out the next day of the other Org rules....

So I don't need to get the info from you and my wisdom came from the Org...not you....accept it as it is...
I know what was told to me...
And again...if you read my post it says...If the Orgs welcome you then so be it....if they don't oh well...
Its amazing how you are welcome and you don't even have rules...
So why was there no SVL class in LI and how come there was no SVL class in Solomons...
So were was I missinformed...we all seen it with our own eyes...they ran Class 4...
So you keep your boat on a trailer and keep running your mouth on your rules while you site on a computer and will just keep racing and supporting our Org like we have all year..

[MANITIE]

Is this a done deal? If so, I appaude you guys for finally settling on a rule book. Are we supposed to enforce this new rule book in Orange Beach? Where can I get a copy of it?

See ya next week! It's gonna be a busy weekend.

Finally....you swear they were writing the 10 commandments....

THOU SHALL NOT RACE AGAINST THE FOUNTIAN...

Done...that simple..

[Wahoo 214]

Hey no problem. I still do not get what you're saying but what do I know anyway? What I tried failed!!! And with that ...
:leaving:

From what I hear we would all be better off if you didn't fail. You had it going on.

[2TR]

The refusing tech thing is your fault or the Orgs. Since SVL has it's own rule book and you chose your own schedule, Your class Pres should have DQ'd them.




If the SVL Club runs the class and one boat is refusing tech and breaking the rules why weren’t they DQ'ed on the spot?

[MANITIE]

If the SVL Club runs the class and one boat is refusing tech and breaking the rules why weren’t they DQ'ed on the spot?

Rick...it was posted on here from OPA... So George can't go into his wisdon speech about me again...that if OPA inspected per the rule book..that only 3 boats would have passed....

[2TR]

Rick...it was posted on here from OPA... So George can't go into his wisdon speech about me again...that if OPA inspected per the rule book..that only 3 boats would have passed....


I think Mike said this was going to happen before the season started, now it’s a cluster F7*k and an internet embarrassment to Offshore. It looks to me (an Outsider) like the Phantoms and Extremes got beat so they are taking there ball and going to find another field to play in.

That why I like P class racing, every boat can run the set numbers so driver/throttleman skill is of the utmost importance.

[MANITIE]

I think Mike said this was going to happen before the season started, now it’s a cluster F7*k and an internet embarrassment to Offshore. It looks to me (an Outsider) like the Phantoms and Extremes got beat so they are taking there ball and going to find another field to play in.

That why I like P class racing, every boat can run the set numbers so driver/throttleman skill is of the utmost importance.

Mike A has been there and done that....and gave them the best advice back then....
and again has been given them the best advise to fix it....
Its time to let the chips fall with them...they have had time to fix it...
They are coming to OB...so everything is good....

[Pete B]

Is that back when the LLC P class rules were based on top speed, P2 was for boats that ran 90-100mph, and that boat ran over 90? Is that also back when the LLC averaged 40+ P class boats per event? Just wondering.:bump:


yep, on its best day when there were calm conditions, but not on the days where there were 3ft + seas.

But the svl Fountain seems to be able to do that so P-2 is where it belongs!

[Mike A.]

yep, on its best day when there were calm conditions, but not on the days where there were 3ft + seas.

But the svl Fountain seems to be able to do that so P-2 is where it belongs!

That is what I thought. The Skater was placed in the correct class.

[Pete B]

That is what I thought. The Skater was placed in the correct class.

Not by todays Standards!

[Mike A.]

Not by todays Standards!

WTF? Who cares? Are you crying about something me and my staff did to you 10 years ago? If so, get in line. :seeya:

[Racerguymiami]

I asked a question one page ago and cannot get an answer, which was, who do I speak to in SVL to homologate a new boat. I can't even begin to understand the manner of the response. With that said, I do think I can understand Docs position with some of the racers. I hope you all are writing a conduct code in your rules, both on and off the racecourse. The level of sportsmanship in SVL, at least those discussing the class on this forum, is near non-existest.

I was asked in an earlier post whether I was coming to race or for trophies. I thought I was coming to compete against professional boat racers. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Gino, I'm going to have the boat inspected real soon here by SBI and hopefully will be allowed to race the worlds. I also plan on joining OPA and pull the boat to Orange Beach for inspection only.

[Wahoo 214]

I asked a question one page ago and cannot get an answer, which was, who do I speak to in SVL to homologate a new boat. I can't even begin to understand the manner of the response. With that said, I do think I can understand Docs position with some of the racers. I hope you all are writing a conduct code in your rules, both on and off the racecourse. The level of sportsmanship in SVL, at least those discussing the class on this forum, is near non-existest.

I was asked in an earlier post whether I was coming to race or for trophies. I thought I was coming to compete against professional boat racers. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Gino, I'm going to have the boat inspected real soon here by SBI and hopefully will be allowed to race the worlds. I also plan on joining OPA and pull the boat to Orange Beach for inspection only.

Great news. Could you post pics of your build? It is always very interesting to see how these things are built.

[imco offshore]

I asked a question one page ago and cannot get an answer, which was, who do I speak to in SVL to homologate a new boat. I can't even begin to understand the manner of the response. With that said, I do think I can understand Docs position with some of the racers. I hope you all are writing a conduct code in your rules, both on and off the racecourse. The level of sportsmanship in SVL, at least those discussing the class on this forum, is near non-existest.

I was asked in an earlier post whether I was coming to race or for trophies. I thought I was coming to compete against professional boat racers. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Gino, I'm going to have the boat inspected real soon here by SBI and hopefully will be allowed to race the worlds. I also plan on joining OPA and pull the boat to Orange Beach for inspection only.

racer guy in post 29 you asked the question,,in post 41 framk answered ,,in post 44 you thanked him,,, but here ya go,,

race guy if your talking about me ,,i.m sorry ,,but i can not speek for svl any more ,,you would need to talk to the org.s tech officals ,,in oss it,s mike tomelson ,,and in sbi ,,i don,t know the new gentelmen name so i would call mr. John and ask him,,, good luck ,,you MIGHT have an issue with oss if you have an inline canopy ,,maybe ?? but ask anyway,,:USA:

[detail toyz]

So how fast does that SVL Fountain run? Or how fast is it capable of?

[imco offshore]

wahoo said in st clair in july they ran along side them at 103 ,,,i have to think it,s faster now after 3 months of r & d..

[mdkeywest]

:sifone::driving:

[Racerguymiami]

George, no. Not you at all. I just didn't get the call Doc/bring cash response from Dunbar.

I've spoken to SBI and OPA regarding my new boat and the Fountain. There doesn't seem to be a problem with the Fountain in either org and I don't foresee any problems with mine at tech. My question is when and if I come to race with your group is there someone in that group who will need to tech/inspect my boat to deem it legal or illegal?

[MANITIE]

I asked a question one page ago and cannot get an answer, which was, who do I speak to in SVL to homologate a new boat. I can't even begin to understand the manner of the response. With that said, I do think I can understand Docs position with some of the racers. I hope you all are writing a conduct code in your rules, both on and off the racecourse. The level of sportsmanship in SVL, at least those discussing the class on this forum, is near non-existest.

I was asked in an earlier post whether I was coming to race or for trophies. I thought I was coming to compete against professional boat racers. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Gino, I'm going to have the boat inspected real soon here by SBI and hopefully will be allowed to race the worlds. I also plan on joining OPA and pull the boat to Orange Beach for inspection only.

Great to here your getting all the tech and inspections out of the way...
I'm looking forward to seeing the boat...I know all the time you have put in to it...I would expect nothing less then a bad a$$ boat that you hae built...
See ya soon

[ccracing]

we raced with the fountain sunday and it is one bad a$$ machine.its bottom is shaved closer than my face and it handles awesome...you guys are just gonna out drive them,because it is one nice machine.somebody get some cash together and let will the phantom smith build you a fountain killer!!!

[Slandrew]

So how fast does that SVL Fountain run? Or how fast is it capable of?100+:cheers2:

[extras]

Fountian Killer Thats funny

[imco offshore]

George, no. Not you at all. I just didn't get the call Doc/bring cash response from Dunbar.

I've spoken to SBI and OPA regarding my new boat and the Fountain. There doesn't seem to be a problem with the Fountain in either org and I don't foresee any problems with mine at tech. My question is when and if I come to race with your group is there someone in that group who will need to tech/inspect my boat to deem it legal or illegal?

to answer ,NO the org,s have a tech inspector and know the rules of the class ,,as well a big part of the insoection is SAFETY,,,
I know oss has a safety issue with inline canopys ,,,they might now have a new stand ,,being boats are getting harder to come by ,,good luck,,if i can help please feel free to call ,,:USA:

[Ratickle]

WTF? Who cares? Are you crying about something me and my staff did to you 10 years ago? If so, get in line. :seeya:

Now that's funny.......:sifone:

[Mike A.]

Goodbye SVL. The last of the APBA LLC spec classes. Took 10 years to kill it. Not too bad.

Any predictions on how many SVL's in OB and KW?

I will start: 4-5; 1-2.

[mdkeywest]

Goodbye SVL. The last of the APBA LLC spec classes. Took 10 years to kill it. Not too bad.

Any predictions on how many SVL's in OB and KW?

I will start: 4-5; 1-2.

That was my favorite class ( next to supercat ) We need a 21 gun salute :USA:.

One good thing Mike , OSS can not do any more harm . :seeya:

[MANITIE]

Goodbye SVL. The last of the APBA LLC spec classes. Took 10 years to kill it. Not too bad.

Any predictions on how many SVL's in OB and KW?

I will start: 4-5; 1-2.

I thought a lot of the SVL guys were going to KW....
So what if you have to race against the Fountain..thats 1 boat...
What about the other 9 SVL's...you still do not want to race each other...
Mike in F1 in 2002 there were 4 F1 Fountains that ran in Key West..
and all 4 of us knew we did not have a chance of winning or even placing..we were all luckey if we finished in 10th...and that would be a good finish in that boat...but we still all showed and raced...which was one of the reason you had 20+ F1 boats at a race..
When there were 23 - 25 F2 boats...there were plenty of boats that could not compete with some of the best....even when they knew there boats could not compete with some of the faster F2's...but they still raced...its how you had the 20+ boats class's...
It would be great to have 20 boats all capible of winning and running with 1 mph or 2 of each other...but that was never the case...
Yes...parity is great...but if the other 9 SVL's are all running the same speed why not go out and race each other...

[Dunbar 104]

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6991783/

[Mike A.]

I thought a lot of the SVL guys were going to KW....
So what if you have to race against the Fountain..thats 1 boat...
What about the other 9 SVL's...you still do not want to race each other...
Mike in F1 in 2002 there were 4 F1 Fountains that ran in Key West..
and all 4 of us knew we did not have a chance of winning or even placing..we were all luckey if we finished in 10th...and that would be a good finish in that boat...but we still all showed and raced...which was one of the reason you had 20+ F1 boats at a race..
When there were 23 - 25 F2 boats...there were plenty of boats that could not compete with some of the best....even when they knew there boats could not compete with some of the faster F2's...but they still raced...its how you had the 20+ boats class's...
It would be great to have 20 boats all capible of winning and running with 1 mph or 2 of each other...but that was never the case...
Yes...parity is great...but if the other 9 SVL's are all running the same speed why not go out and race each other...

Gino,

I do not remember the F1 Fountains ever dominating the class. Benny had some good runs in calm water and so did Tom Etheridge, but there were several other Fountain teams that did not run well, and many manufacturers won races and believed they had a legitimate chance to win every time out. Same thing with F2.

Our rules were strictly enforced back then too which is not really the case now. And, we had TV programs on two major networks. As you also know, when a boat started dominating a particular class back then we slowed the boat down to give others a chance to win, so there were some additional incentives to keep racing that do not exist anymore. And the economy was much better back then too.

Today, no SVL has a chance to win against the Fountain unless it breaks.

There may very well be a few teams who race OB for the thrill of finishing first against the also rans, or just to have fun. And there may be a few who go that are delusional, thinking they can still win. After they get lapped and destroyed though, it would be hard for me to imagine most of them spending another $5000+, and taking another week off work to do that again in KW.

All I'm sayin'. Hopefully I am wrong.

[MANITIE]

I understand....I was just thinking....if your going to promote your class what ever it may be next year...I would think the last big race of the year would be a good place to show what the class has in store for next year...and maybe picks some racers minds about joining in....

Tammy said they did a cool write up in the paper on you last week about the Clearwater race..
Its funny..while sitting around before the awards in Solomon....a couple of guys asked me...If Offshore will ever get back to the LLC days?

[phragle]

call me weird, but I would think that winning every race easily would get boring quickly... the best memories I have of desert racing were battling somebody else, trying to catch somebody or trying not to let somebody pass me.

[Mike A.]

I understand....I was just thinking....if your going to promote your class what ever it may be next year...I would think the last big race of the year would be a good place to show what the class has in store for next year...and maybe picks some racers minds about joining in....

Tammy said they did a cool write up in the paper on you last week about the Clearwater race..
Its funny..while sitting around before the awards in Solomon....a couple of guys asked me...If Offshore will ever get back to the LLC days?

Yeah, well, I think the class is dead for next year. If the majority of racers feel the same way, then the last big race of the year is meaningless, right?

The sport could get back to the LLC days but it never will.

[Mike A.]

call me weird, but I would think that winning every race easily would get boring quickly... the best memories I have of desert racing were battling somebody else, trying to catch somebody or trying not to let somebody pass me.

You are not weird. But offshore racing has been this way for a long time. Giant, but unjustified, egos, with delusions of grandeur, thinking that they are actually accomplishing something significant everytime they win a knife fight with their bazooka. Some like minded hangers-on, leeches, and the uninformed cheering them on. :puke: Sorry. Anyway, it is not racing. Just driving a fast boat fast for a 45 minutes or so, some self congratulations, and on to the next boat ride. Stupid.

[Wardey]

Goodbye SVL. The last of the APBA LLC spec classes. Took 10 years to kill it. Not too bad.

Any predictions on how many SVL's in OB and KW?

I will start: 4-5; 1-2.

Factory 1 - GONE
Factory 2 - GONE
SVL - GONE
Offshore Racing - ?

[imco offshore]

Factory 1 - GONE
Factory 2 - GONE
SVL - GONE
Offshore Racing - ?

is it really Offshore Racing ,,,or

Offshore Social Club ,,
your better get in the ,,click.. or your just a donor :eek:

[phragle]

I prefer to think of it as a drinking club with a bit of adrenaline thrown in from time to time, but then again Im not really clickish person, just a half drunk muppet. I want to try racing next year, I have no illusions of actually winning anything, I just want to have fun and hang it out.

[BUIZILLA]

:icon_bs: it's beach racing, ask anybody on the beach... :rolleyes:

[imco offshore]

I have no illusions of actually winning anything, I just want to have fun and hang it out.
Rob ,,as long as the new are in with old ,,,that is just your spot,, enjoy my freind,,:cheers2:

[mdkeywest]

In case you have doubts ,I would say these guys hung it out there .
They didnt leave anything on the table for sure .

[mdkeywest]

This is runnin hard in my book .:driving::cheers2:

[MANITIE]

This is runnin hard in my book .:driving::cheers2:

It must of been ruff....I looked at the average laps speeds and they were some of the lowest I have seen in a long time....mid 60's to 71.22....and the Class 5 Volocity averaged 61.2...
Did Steve and Gary maybe missed the set up or have issues....I don't ever recal them running a 67's average..and they are one of the best ruff water teams out there....was there a reason for them running a clockwise race...

[Pat D]

....was there a reason for them running a clockwise race...

yes...to turn away from the pier instead of coming around towards the pier
(hope I explained that right)

[MANITIE]

yes...to turn away from the pier instead of coming around towards the pier
(hope I explained that right)

Thanks Pat....I fugured there was a reason...

[Mike A.]

It must of been ruff....I looked at the average laps speeds and they were some of the lowest I have seen in a long time....mid 60's to 71.22....and the Class 5 Volocity averaged 61.2...
Did Steve and Gary maybe missed the set up or have issues....I don't ever recal them running a 67's average..and they are one of the best ruff water teams out there....was there a reason for them running a clockwise race...

No, Gary and Steve did not miss their set up. They actually led for a lap, and were running extremely hard as you can see from the tabs being up and the boat flying, but when the Fontain passed them like they were tied to the dock, Steve said screw it and backed off. That is the reason Steve is probably going to cut the top off the Extreme and go pleasure boating.

[MANITIE]

No, Gary and Steve did not miss their set up. They actually led for a lap, and were running extremely hard as you can see from the tabs being up and the boat flying, but when the Fontain passed them like they were tied to the dock, Steve said screw it and backed off. That is the reason Steve is probably going to cut the top off the Extreme and go pleasure boating.

Thanks....I thought there had to be a reason for the 67 adverage...even in big water...I figured Steve still would be in the 70's....
Hate to see him cut the lid off..
The boat looks like see was flying great..

[imco offshore]

call me weird, but I would think that winning every race easily would get boring quickly... the best memories I have of desert racing were battling somebody else, trying to catch somebody or trying not to let somebody pass me.

thats because you were a "competitor" and enjoyed working on your equipment so it could,,, now adays we have "trophy collectors, " followers" and "don,t work on your boat ,so i don,t have to,," and then you have
" at least i,m part of the big show ' ':puke:

[2TR]

:sifone:

/v/OGsXQLM7ZWU?fs=1&hl=ent

[ccracing]

thats awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MANITIE]

:sifone:

/v/OGsXQLM7ZWU?fs=1&hl=ent

That is priceless..

[Mike A.]

That is priceless..

Really, what clowns. Trying to accomodate a guy who dumped his unapproved boat on them illegally at the 11th hour before the first race, ignoring warnings they would regret it, who repaid them by pounding them into the ground, who got on the Internet and bragged about himself and mocked his fellow competitors, while using false screen names and pretending to be someone else, who refused to allow his boat to be teched properly while protesting anything the old boats did to get competitive, whose boat is 5-10 mph faster in all conditions, who cannot lose unless he breaks, etc., etc.

I mean, really, what clowns. Now that they have pissed a ton of money away chasing a ghost, and ruined the value of their boats, they should finish what they started, spend thousands more, and be this guy's bitch two more times. Otherwise, what will he have to brag about?

I mean, really, what clowns. It isn't fair for them to let him race only to quit now. C'mon. Man up, clowns.

[imco offshore]

thats awsome ...funny

[mdkeywest]

:driving::bump::sifone:

[MANITIE]

Really, what clowns. Trying to accomodate a guy who dumped his unapproved boat on them illegally at the 11th hour before the first race, ignoring warnings they would regret it, who repaid them by pounding them into the ground, who got on the Internet and bragged about himself and mocked his fellow competitors, while using false screen names and pretending to be someone else, who refused to allow his boat to be teched properly while protesting anything the old boats did to get competitive, whose boat is 5-10 mph faster in all conditions, who cannot lose unless he breaks, etc., etc.

I mean, really, what clowns. Now that they have pissed a ton of money away chasing a ghost, and ruined the value of their boats, they should finish what they started, spend thousands more, and be this guy's bitch two more times. Otherwise, what will he have to brag about?

I mean, really, what clowns. It isn't fair for them to let him race only to quit now. C'mon. Man up, clowns.

Mike...who cares about the clown...I'm saying the comment about the Fountain is priceless....
And if you really look at the whole picture....
Who did not listen to you about letting in the Fountain to begin with?
Who did not make the rules like they should?
Who made changes to there boats that were not in the rules?
Did Martin give any money to the SVL teams and did he have anything to do with this?
Have you ever seen a sport were the teams run the sport?

This was a simple problem to handle...
The SVL owners run there own class...
If the Fountain team did not follow the rules on building the boat then it should have never been let into OSS, SBI or OPA...
In St Clair..some racers said they had no problem with the boat..they had a problem with the driver and OPA's tech...
You said it yourself...after Biloxi...that boat is only going to get faster...and it did....
No one is suprised of this outcome...
but who is to blame on this:
OSS...OPA...SBI....Martin....Fountain....DOC....The SVL teams...The Pres of SVL...
Why can't the SVL's just race in OSS and not let any Fountains in...
And now one of the SVL racers said that 90% of the teams are onboard for Martins P1 class next year....sounds like everything is just fine....
If its not..and this is all BS again....and the class falls apart...
Then .....if those big shoes fit....wear them...

[Racerguymiami]

The Fountain should be the least of your worries. Most likely after OB this thread will be re-directed cause we're coming baby. Our clock sits easily on the century mark too.

[MANITIE]

The Fountain should be the least of your worries. Most likely after OB this thread will be re-directed cause we're coming baby. Our clock sits easily on the century mark too.

Can't wait to see that boat....sounds like all that hard work paid off...

[Mike A.]

Mike...who cares about the clown...I'm saying the comment about the Fountain is priceless....
And if you really look at the whole picture....
Who did not listen to you about letting in the Fountain to begin with?
Who did not make the rules like they should?
Who made changes to there boats that were not in the rules?
Did Martin give any money to the SVL teams and did he have anything to do with this?
Have you ever seen a sport were the teams run the sport?

This was a simple problem to handle...
The SVL owners run there own class...
If the Fountain team did not follow the rules on building the boat then it should have never been let into OSS, SBI or OPA...
In St Clair..some racers said they had no problem with the boat..they had a problem with the driver and OPA's tech...
You said it yourself...after Biloxi...that boat is only going to get faster...and it did....
No one is suprised of this outcome...
but who is to blame on this:
OSS...OPA...SBI....Martin....Fountain....DOC....The SVL teams...The Pres of SVL...
Why can't the SVL's just race in OSS and not let any Fountains in...
And now one of the SVL racers said that 90% of the teams are onboard for Martins P1 class next year....sounds like everything is just fine....
If its not..and this is all BS again....and the class falls apart...
Then .....if those big shoes fit....wear them...

I completely agree. 'cept, the SVL racer who made the 90% claim, Randy, is full of it.

[Phantom1]

The Fountain should be the least of your worries. Most likely after OB this thread will be re-directed cause we're coming baby. Our clock sits easily on the century mark too.

Of course it does. All one-off boats right out the mold run 6 mph faster than their competitors.......

You have come across pretty well grounded and reasonable until that post. Good luck:rolleyes:

[Racerguymiami]

Of course it does. All one-off boats right out the mold run 6 mph faster than their competitors.......

You have come across pretty well grounded and reasonable until that post. Good luck:rolleyes:

That one was one of my guys taking liberty's on an unattended keyboard. Please disregard.

[Wahoo 214]

:sifone:

/v/OGsXQLM7ZWU?fs=1&hl=ent

Now that is a real "Belly Laugh"

[Wahoo 214]

I can't believe Fountain hasn't used SVL as a new Marketing campaign. I could see it going something like this.

" We pull out a mothballed mold from a discountined hull and destroy the competition, class and the will of the other racers. Just wait till we use the current molds!"

That would even top the famous add where Hustler announced buying Fountain. :willy_nilly:

[Gordo]

If the SVL Club runs the class and one boat is refusing tech and breaking the rules why weren’t they DQ'ed on the spot?

<Standing Ovation> What HE said!

[Mike A.]

I can't believe Fountain hasn't used SVL as a new Marketing campaign. I could see it going something like this.

" We pull out a mothballed mold from a discountined hull and destroy the competition, class and the will of the other racers. Just wait till we use the current molds!"

That would even top the famous add where Hustler announced buying Fountain. :willy_nilly:

I got an idea. Why don't you and the other SV Classic Fountains get out there, man up, and race Brett and the other newer Fountains. Of course, you will get annihilated, but at least Brett will have the glory of kicking your tails, right? And shouldn't it be about the one guy with the cannon and not the 10 with knives? You guys are such ladies for having your own SV Classic class. I mean...:eek:

[Dunbar 104]

I got an idea. Why don't you and the other SV Classic Fountains get out there, man up, and race Brett and the other newer Fountains. Of course, you will get annihilated, but at least Brett will have the glory of kicking your tails, right? And shouldn't it be about the one guy with the cannon and not the 10 with knives? You guys are such ladies for having your own SV Classic class. I mean...:eek:

Cause he would have to leave the state of Michigan, and do you know what a pair of sportmasters cost these days.

[Wahoo 214]

I got an idea. Why don't you and the other SV Classic Fountains get out there, man up, and race Brett and the other newer Fountains. Of course, you will get annihilated, but at least Brett will have the glory of kicking your tails, right? And shouldn't it be about the one guy with the cannon and not the 10 with knives? You guys are such ladies for having your own SV Classic class. I mean...:eek:

Not quite the same arguement. If the new fountains met the weight, gear ratios and ran Bravos, I would more than welcome that.

Unlike SVL our class is open to any SV that meets those rules. Be it Cigarette, Outerlimits, Phantom, Extreme ANYONE. Most have tried but ended up in C3. It is simple, if you are 8200lbs and run twin 525s with bravos bring it on.

BTW Ladies run with #6s:kiss:

[mdkeywest]

:cheers2:
I got an idea. Why don't you and the other SV Classic Fountains get out there, man up, and race Brett and the other newer Fountains. Of course, you will get annihilated, but at least Brett will have the glory of kicking your tails, right? And shouldn't it be about the one guy with the cannon and not the 10 with knives? You guys are such ladies for having your own SV Classic class. I mean...

:eek:

[Mike A.]

Not quite the same arguement. If the new fountains met the weight, gear ratios and ran Bravos, I would more than welcome that.

Unlike SVL our class is open to any SV that meets those rules. Be it Cigarette, Outerlimits, Phantom, Extreme ANYONE. Most have tried but ended up in C3. It is simple, if you are 8200lbs and run twin 525s with bravos bring it on.

BTW Ladies run with #6s:kiss:

Delude yourself into thinking whatever you want but it is EXACTLY the same thing. There was a time when his boat and the Skaters were absolutely legal Super Vees. You guys pussed out because you could not compete anymore and started your own class with rules that pushed the faster, newer technology boats out. And now you are telling them to abide your rules if they want to compete against you and then you will kick their arses. Hahahahahahaha. Oh yeah, totally different. Such crap.

Man up and let Brett kick your classic butt. It is only fair.

[2TR]

Delude yourself into thinking whatever you want but it is EXACTLY the same thing. There was a time when his boat and the Skaters were absolutely legal Super Vees. You guys pussed out because you could not compete anymore and started your own class with rules that pushed the faster, newer technology boats out. And now you are telling them to abide your rules if they want to compete against you and then you will kick their arses. Hahahahahahaha. Oh yeah, totally different. Such crap.

Man up and let Brett kick your classic butt. It is only fair.

EXACTLY THE SAME THING?

Now that's funny.

[Wahoo 214]

Mike,

you are using rules to make your point which were not in effect when a least 3/4s of our class were not owners or racing boats. We bought our boats, like Doc, to fit a class. A class with rules. SVL also has rules which OSS, sbi, opa, and the class says the Fountian meets. So again. I don't buy your comparison.

Our class is open to ANY MANUFACTURE that like SVL runs 525s, Bravos, and 8200lbs

[Mike A.]

EXACTLY THE SAME THING?

Now that's funny.

What's the matter? You don't like it? Truth hurts huh? IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Here, I will show you. New rule for SVL: Single step only with the Lavey Craft grandfathered. "Hey dude, let Fountain run their 29' with the single step in the class and bring it on, man. We'll kick their butts yo!"

[Mike A.]

Mike,

you are using rules to make your point which were not in effect when a least 3/4s of our class were not owners or racing boats. We bought our boats, like Doc, to fit a class. A class with rules. SVL also has rules which OSS, sbi, opa, and the class says the Fountian meets. So again. I don't buy your comparison.

Our class is open to ANY MANUFACTURE that like SVL runs 525s, Bravos, and 8200lbs

Pfffffffft. Every boat in the class is a washed up former SV. Sorry man, delude yourself if you want but it is the EXACT same thing. Touched a nerve huh?

[SVL66]

Hey Mike....Dont you have any ambulances to chase. Cmon man, Give it a rest!

[Mike A.]

Hey Mike....Dont you have any ambulances to chase. Cmon man, Give it a rest!

Good one. By the way, you should probably check with Smitty before making moron lawyer jokes.

[baldtires]

I think its more like this:

" We pull out a mothballed mold from a discountined hull, MODIFY THE HELL OUT OF IT, CLAIM ITS NOT BEEN MODIFIED, DONT LET ANYBODY INSPECT IT, THREATEN TO SUE IF THEY DO, TURN UP THE RPMS, USE A DRIVER WHO SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE SPORT, POUR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS INTO THE BOAT, PURCHASED 40+ PROPS TO THE COMPETITIONS 5-6, and destroy class and the will of the other racers WHO ARE NOT CHEATING AND ENCOURAGE ANYBODY TO INSPECT THEIR BOATS. Just wait till we use the current molds WHERE WE PLAN ON CHEATING EVEN MORE.

[Wahoo 214]

No nerve hit and I believe you are missing my point. Your SV class had faulty rules which allowed changes in powertrain which obsoleted the older boats. By not narrowing the rules to control drive options, gear ratios and prop selection not available to Bravos you killed a premier class. That is the true comparison here.

After the class was destroyed by that lack of rules, the OPA corrected those rules, the majority of the current SV racers, decided to buy boats to compete under those rules. If an owner wants to build a new boat that meets those rules I'm certain it will be welcome. Unlike SVL. Many of those boats that can't beat the Fountain SVs understood that a moved to C3 and are very competitive there.

Doc's boat meets the SVL rules, more so than the older boats. He is not asking to run a 6 or even NTX drive. Personalities should not exclude a boat nor should doing his homework or investing in his team. If after all the hull alterations, unsealed "525s", ecm upgrades and hidden ballast tanks the older SVL can't complete they should go to C4

[Wahoo 214]

I think its more like this:

" We pull out a mothballed mold from a discountined hull, MODIFY THE HELL OUT OF IT, CLAIM ITS NOT BEEN MODIFIED, DONT LET ANYBODY INSPECT IT, THREATEN TO SUE IF THEY DO, TURN UP THE RPMS, USE A DRIVER WHO SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE SPORT, POUR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS INTO THE BOAT, PURCHASED 40+ PROPS TO THE COMPETITIONS 5-6, and destroy class and the will of the other racers WHO ARE NOT CHEATING AND ENCOURAGE ANYBODY TO INSPECT THEIR BOATS. Just wait till we use the current molds WHERE WE PLAN ON CHEATING EVEN MORE.

So if this is all true, why didn't the Pres of SVL not DQ the boat. Did Dunbar or George tell Smitty that as a group of racers that make thier own rules and chose their own events The Group wants the boat DQd for refusing tech?

Or could it be that the rules were so badly written and violated by the past racers that they were not enforcable?

[Mike A.]

No nerve hit and I believe you are missing my point. Your SV class had faulty rules which allowed changes in powertrain which obsoleted the older boats. By not narrowing the rules to control drive options, gear ratios and prop selection not available to Bravos you killed a premier class. That is the true comparison here.

After the class was destroyed by that lack of rules, the OPA corrected those rules, the majority of the current SV racers, decided to buy boats to compete under those rules. If an owner wants to build a new boat that meets those rules I'm certain it will be welcome. Unlike SVL. Many of those boats that can't beat the Fountain SVs understood that a moved to C3 and are very competitive there.

Doc's boat meets the SVL rules, more so than the older boats. He is not asking to run a 6 or even NTX drive. Personalities should not exclude a boat nor should doing his homework or investing in his team. If after all the hull alterations, unsealed "525s", ecm upgrades and hidden ballast tanks the older SVL can't complete they should go to C4

Cool man, you have the rationalization down pat. Guess you can sleep well at night telling the SVL guys to go race P class rather than creating their own class for the 10 existing boats - which would give us 2 whole SVL classes, one with 10 and the other with 1 - even though there are 5,769 SV classes. Got it.

[Wahoo 214]

Or we could create a class for every boat so everyone can get a trophy and pat themselves on the azz. Oh thats what we already have.

[imco offshore]

quote wahoo ::So if this is all true, why didn't the Pres of SVL not DQ the boat. Did Dunbar or George tell Smitty that as a group of racers that make thier own rules and chose their own events The Group wants the boat DQd for refusing tech?


again you don,t know what your talking about,,,nor do you know what was said,,,
sorry you were not in the loop AGAIN,,,
WE WILL TRY TO FIX IT FOR YOU,,:eek:

[Wahoo 214]

Sorry George. That was a question I posed not a statement. Do you know the answer? If you posted it, this entire thread would be moot. Because I can only think of four reasons why he wasn't DQ'd.

1. Your Class President didn't object.
2. Your rules didn't require it
3. It never happened.
4. The Organization sold out to Fountain and the Doc and it is a gaint scam.

Which is it?

[Ron P]

Not sure where this "Refused to be inspected" crap is coming from. Someone overheard something and started the rumor. (Gee that's a first in offshore racing) If you are pointing to Sunny Isles Beach as the location for this offense, it never happened.

Anyone wanting to discuss should call Bob Owen.

[Wahoo 214]

Looks like found the answer behind door number 3

[Mike A.]

Doc has been inspected every race he has raced with SBI. Richie has never had an issue with the inspection process of the SVL's .

Is Richie the guy who was freaking out over Miklos' swim platform but has no interest or ability to tech ECM's?

[Mike A.]

Mike SBI said in Cocoa that they are not going to tech ECM's and you know that. IF fountain is running a hot ECM do u really think he is the only one.

Right, and why did they say that? Because this Richie person did not want to, know how to, or care to test ECM's, right? And so rather than figuring that out and bring some much needed parity to a class, this guy goes crazy over a freaking swim platform on a slower 15 year old boat? Why? So the Fountain could win by even more? Look, I do not care what the old boats are doing. There is parity there so it cancels out whatever extra they are doing. But when you have a one-off, custom Fountain with a hot ECM that runs over 100mph why not put him on a legal ECM and bring him back to the fleet some more?

[Bullhead]

touche'

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7310849

[sbracing]

Back when Sports Car Club of America was running a spec Corvette series
(Corvette Challenge) the officials kept the ECM's and you drew which one you would use for each race. Eliminated the tech inspection of ECM's other than checking that you installed the correct one for the race.

Just a thought.

[Ron P]

I bought about 20 ECMs from Merc while at OSS to do exactly that for the cat lite class and 850 class. I believe Gene has them, George, maybe you can borrow a bunch for Orange Beach if you have a concern with ECMs. Not a big deal to shuffle them and hand them out.

[Mike A.]

That Forehand runs the entire boat by himself and the Doc just sits there? If it is then Brian IS the best boat racer in the world. And I am not kidding. As hard and crazy as it was running in Clearwater, if he was doing that by himself then he is mad good. At the same time, if it is true then...bwaaaaaaahaahahahahahahaoooooooooooweeeeeheheheeeeheeeee.:dupe:

[Mike A.]

I bought about 20 ECMs from Merc while at OSS to do exactly that for the cat lite class and 850 class. I believe Gene has them, George, maybe you can borrow a bunch for Orange Beach if you have a concern with ECMs. Not a big deal to shuffle them and hand them out.

The issue is the bringing parity to the class by slowing the Fountain down, not slowing everyone else too. What would the point of that be. Either weigh the thing down or change out the ECM and eliminate the back-up system that is probably in there to avoid detection. The sanctioning body would need to add the weight too, not the team, to bypass the illegal water ballast system that might be there too. Just speaking from experience, don't you know.:seeya:

[Ron P]

There's a famous saying that would be appropriate at this time since the last race of the OPA season is just days away and everyone should be focused on getting there and bringing their A Game.

"SHUT UP AND RACE" Yes, I believe that's how it goes.:)

[Ron P]

The issue is the bringing parity to the class by slowing the Fountain down, not slowing everyone else too. What would the point of that be. Either weigh the thing down or change out the ECM and eliminate the back-up system that is probably in there to avoid detection. The sanctioning body would need to add the weight too, not the team, to bypass the illegal water ballast system that might be there too. Just speaking from experience, don't you know.:seeya:

The one missing part to this whole discussion is Smitty. Without his consent to any rule changes or adjustments, it's all just talk.

I believe Smitty has a damn good plan for this class for 2011 and I hope he'll pull the class aside in Orange Beach and share it with all of you. As for this upcoming race, any rule adjustments or additional weights will need to be run by Smitty.....and you know how he feels about rule changes during the season.....I doubt it will happen.

[Mike A.]

There's a famous saying that would be appropriate at this time since the last race of the OPA season is just days away and everyone should be focused on getting there and bringing their A Game.

"SHUT UP AND RACE" Yes, I believe that's how it goes.:)

Hey Ron, here is another one: "Up Yours", yeah, I believe that's how it goes.

[Mike A.]

The one missing part to this whole discussion is Smitty. Without his consent to any rule changes or adjustments, it's all just talk.

I believe Smitty has a damn good plan for this class for 2011 and I hope he'll pull the class aside in Orange Beach and share it with all of you. As for this upcoming race, any rule adjustments or additional weights will need to be run by Smitty.....and you know how he feels about rule changes during the season.....I doubt it will happen.

Well, given that, my guess is if Smitty wants a meeting he will have to do a conference call because there will not be more than 5 or 6 boats on site, maybe less.

[MANITIE]

Rumor has it that the SVL Fountain is not even coming to OB...
So whats the problem...
You don't even have to deal with him...
No entry fee's
$1000 to show..
Most of the SVL's have not raced sice St Clair...
Why would all the SVL's not come and race since the Fountain is not coming.

[Ron P]

I believe the Fountain will be in OB along with another new SVL.

[MANITIE]

I believe the Fountain will be in OB along with another new SVL.

Well....that explians that....

[mdkeywest]

:D

[XtremeRacing]

Gino,
Will we see u in KW I know you have posted a few times but not sure if things have changed? Looks like it is shaping up to be an awesome race, P5 should be a hell of a race....

[MANITIE]

I left John a message to call me..I want to make sure they will let me run in KW with the Ilmor in Class 5...
Also I have been having a problem finding a GPS that is listed in there rules..
I'm running a garmin now...but its not the ones that are on the list..
If you have any info were I can get one..let me know..
I rather not do the ebay thing to find one...

[XtremeRacing]

OK i can work on that for you and find out. I know there are a few around....

[Bullhead]

I believe the Fountain will be in OB along with another new SVL.

ditto:driving:

[MANITIE]

Thanks Frank....

[Racerguymiami]

Gino, I may have a Garmin 172C sitting in the shop. If so, you're welcome to it. I'll take a look tonight and let you know.

[MANITIE]

Gino, I may have a Garmin 172C sitting in the shop. If so, you're welcome to it. I'll take a look tonight and let you know.

Thanks..let me know..it will be a big help....
Are you coming to OB with the SVL...

[mdkeywest]

Wow ! :cheers2:

[Ratickle]

I believe Smitty has a damn good plan for this class for 2011 and I hope he'll pull the class aside in Orange Beach and share it with all of you. As for this upcoming race, any rule adjustments or additional weights will need to be run by Smitty.....and you know how he feels about rule changes during the season.....I doubt it will happen.

I'll be very interested in hearing what it is.

[Ratickle]

Well, given that, my guess is if Smitty wants a meeting he will have to do a conference call because there will not be more than 5 or 6 boats on site, maybe less.

Kind of sounding like 4 to 5 at this point in time.

[MANITIE]

Rat....are coming to OB....

[Mike A.]

Kind of sounding like 4 to 5 at this point in time.

Too bad. RIP

[mdkeywest]

Will the Wazzup Fountain " svl " be ready for O.B. ?

At least that way doc will have some competition , ( assuming " both " will run 6000 rpm,s LOL :D)

[Dunbar 104]

The new class is going to like SBI had Super Vee Limited Unlimited.

Rules are simple Fountain, Blue intake anything else is legal, other than Doc will always win Smitty second, and third will be the biggest A$$ kisser. I think Wahoo has it covered.

I wonder if Smitty, and Ron kissing Docs A$$, and the rumers about Gieco have any connection?

[Wahoo 214]

And there you go. The Class Pres taking SVL even lower.

Kinda like the limbo. "How low can you go"?

[Wazzup Racing]

You guys crack me up.

I have written a set of rules for the SVL class to compete with OPA for 2011.

Parity will be adressed as well as sealed motors, and unaltered ECU's. All motors will be dynoed and sealed.
Releasing the restriction on the ecu is as good as throwing the class away.
For Orange Beach the rules for 2010 are in place, What was legal for the first race of 2010, is legal for the last race of 2010. I will go through every SVL in Orange Beach myself. Then we will have a little meeting as to who has what.

For 2011, we will take control of the SVL's that run with OPA. Come or not, the free for all is over. How ever, if there are not at least 6 SVL's in Orange Beach, as far as OPA is concerned. The class is out of the books for 2011.
In the beginning of the year OPA made commitments to the class, and the class made commitments to OPA. One of those were Orange Beach. I am holding you to it. Man up or Man out. Your choice. Mr Dunbar, I just had a talk with Wil Smith. Maybe I should build a Phantom just to whip your A@@.
No Fountain SVL in the future for us. Conflict of interest. Boomer will run the 38 with JR next year. On to bigger things. Smitty

[Wazzup Racing]

The new class is going to like SBI had Super Vee Limited Unlimited.

Rules are simple Fountain, Blue intake anything else is legal, other than Doc will always win Smitty second, and third will be the biggest A$$ kisser. I think Wahoo has it covered.

I wonder if Smitty, and Ron kissing Docs A$$, and the rumers about Gieco have any connection?

One other thing Mark. If memory serves me correct. Your Boat is the one with an aftermarket block in it, and no seals. That block is not available in a 4.47 bore. It starts out at 4.5. Hence 510 cu in. not 502. Ten cubic inch is ten horse power. Guess the SBI rules fit.

[Wil Ros]

Smitty,

All I can say its about time somebody takes control of the class.

Democracy in offshore racing does not work.

Make the rules , inforce them and let the racing start.

Great job!!!!

Wil

[Dunbar 104]

One other thing Mark. If memory serves me correct. Your Boat is the one with an aftermarket block in it, and no seals. That block is not available in a 4.47 bore. It starts out at 4.5. Hence 510 cu in. not 502. Ten cubic inch is ten horse power. Guess the SBI rules fit.


Don't know passed thru Mercury, and I have never had the heads off

Refresh my memory why did you quit OSS 2005 wait or was 2006?

[MANITIE]

Smitty...glad to see you put a stop to all the BS...
Make the rules and hold them to it...if they show great...if not...be done with it...

[Mike A.]

Smitty,

All I can say its about time somebody takes control of the class.

Democracy in offshore racing does not work.

Make the rules , inforce them and let the racing start.

Great job!!!!

Wil

Abso-freakin-lutely!!! I caught terrible grief enforcing parity rules. In fact, it cost me the business in the end, but there is no way to have a successful racing series unless 1) there is a single decision-maker; and 2) that person enforces parity.

I also can vouch for Smitty. He told me months ago that he would honor rules approved by the classic boats but you guys never submitted any. Not his fault.

Smitty, if you want to guarantee the SVL fleet shows up for OB, however, then impose parity on the Fountain NOW - either by putting 500lbs in them or taking revs away. If you need to do more after the first race then do so, but announce the parity move now before it is too late for the 4 or 5 teams who are hanging it up, to get their butts in gear to OB.

Respectfully, I do not think it will work to threaten teams that their class will be deleted from OPA unless they "man up" to get their asses kicked in OB because many of them think the class is dead now anyway. To keep the numbers up, teams have to feel they have a chance to win. (Racers will never admit that publicly, which is another reason a dictator is necessary). Right now, none of the 1990's technology boats can beat the 2010 Fountain.

Good luck to you - I am so glad it ain't me. :bump:

[mdkeywest]

You guys crack me up.
No Fountain SVL in the future for us. Conflict of interest. Boomer will run the 38 with JR next year. On to bigger things. Smitty

Thank you for clearing that up.

So " the new SVL" is still one boat correct ?

[lucky devil]

Parity will be adressed as well as sealed motors, and unaltered ECU's. All motors will be dynoed and sealed.
Releasing the restriction on the ecu is as good as throwing the class away.

For 2011, we will take control of the SVL's that run with OPA.

That's nice, but it doesn't address the homologation issue;

the fact that a canny competitor will run two ECU's (one your inspector sees and one he doesn't - there's a reason NASCAR has both MSD boxes mounted on the 'dash' of every Cup car...bilges and cockpits are great places to hide things);

and the tech inspection of the prop that actually ran the race instead of one presented an hour after the race.

[MANITIE]

That's nice, but it doesn't address the homologation issue;

the fact that a canny competitor will run two ECU's (one your inspector sees and one he doesn't - there's a reason NASCAR has both MSD boxes mounted on the 'dash' of every Cup car...bilges and cockpits are great places to hide things);

and the tech inspection of the prop that actually ran the race instead of one presented an hour after the race.

The prop issue should be easy...the top 4 boats props are turned into a offical at the crane when coming out...

I know people hate this idea everytime I bring it up...but I think if a rule was put in place that if you are caught cheating in any way, hot ecm's, hidden ballest,ect. then that boat is banned from racing in that class...
This way if the owner gets caught there boat is useless for racing and its value is worthless...and also ban both racers and owner of the boat for a year...the penilties today by taking points are nothing...this is not NASCAR..
and you can't fine a team 40k and they will pay...
Do we really need any racer in our sport that dose this...its not like our sport will fall apart without a few bad apples...when it sure will do damage when a team is cheating....

[mdkeywest]

The prop issue should be easy...the top 4 boats props are turned into a offical at the crane when coming out...

I know people hate this idea everytime I bring it up...but I think if a rule was put in place that if you are caught cheating in any way, hot ecm's, hidden ballest,ect. then that boat is banned from racing in that class...
This way if the owner gets caught there boat is useless for racing and its value is worthless...and also ban both racers and owner of the boat for a year....

I like this .

It takes the wallet out of the equation .

[Dunbar 104]

One other thing Mark. If memory serves me correct. Your Boat is the one with an aftermarket block in it, and no seals. That block is not available in a 4.47 bore. It starts out at 4.5. Hence 510 cu in. not 502. Ten cubic inch is ten horse power. Guess the SBI rules fit.

And to clarify Mr Smitty. I see you have been getting advice for your crack tech guy Ron Polli. My block is not a Merlin as many would like to think. It is just a gm block that was purchased from a chevy dealer, not Mercury. It was built by Inovation, and sealed by Mercury. Sorry... Good tech would have caught that.

Engine builder getting tech from a picture taker. Whats next?

Man Up


So Smitty why did OSS want you to pay back all the prize money?

[mdkeywest]

And to clarify Mr Smitty. I see you have been getting advice for your crack tech guy Ron Polli. My block is not a Merlin as many would like to think. It is just a gm block that was purchased from a chevy dealer, not Mercury. It was built by Inovation, and sealed by Mercury. Sorry... Good tech would have caught that.

Engine builder getting tech from a picture taker. Whats next?

Man Up


So Smitty why did OSS want you to pay back all the prize money?

:eek: Is this for real ?

[Phantom1]

So Smitty why did OSS want you to pay back all the prize money?

Were you involved in offshore at the time? Why don't you ask the OSS leadership that was in place then about it...........if you can find them.

[mdkeywest]

I think Typhoon was an original member of OSS back then . You could Ask them .

[Mike A.]

As usual, OSS was wrong on Smitty's deal years ago. I know because I handled it.
As for the rest of this, why is it that offshore racers prefer self-destruction over positive growth. The math is not hard here. Let the Fountain race P class, P1, if there is such a thing, or with lots of extra weight or way less revs. BAM! 10 SVL's racing again and everything is headed back in the right direction. Simple, inexpensive. WTF?

[Ratickle]

Rat....are coming to OB....

I'll be there.

[Ratickle]

You guys crack me up.

I have written a set of rules for the SVL class to compete with OPA for 2011.

Parity will be adressed as well as sealed motors, and unaltered ECU's. All motors will be dynoed and sealed.
Releasing the restriction on the ecu is as good as throwing the class away.
For Orange Beach the rules for 2010 are in place, What was legal for the first race of 2010, is legal for the last race of 2010. I will go through every SVL in Orange Beach myself. Then we will have a little meeting as to who has what.

For 2011, we will take control of the SVL's that run with OPA. Come or not, the free for all is over. How ever, if there are not at least 6 SVL's in Orange Beach, as far as OPA is concerned. The class is out of the books for 2011.
In the beginning of the year OPA made commitments to the class, and the class made commitments to OPA. One of those were Orange Beach. I am holding you to it. Man up or Man out. Your choice. Mr Dunbar, I just had a talk with Wil Smith. Maybe I should build a Phantom just to whip your A@@.
No Fountain SVL in the future for us. Conflict of interest. Boomer will run the 38 with JR next year. On to bigger things. Smitty


Any chance of those rules being posted Smitty?

And, from all of my info, the minimum 6 rule will eliminate the class for next year.

[Ratickle]

There are several ways to enforce parity by the way. It does not have to be, or maybe even should be, weight.

Prop diameter
Drive height
Engine Maximum RPM
Weight


Of these, weight may be the least effective. Some boats run better with more weight. And, in rough water, almost every boat can use the additional weight to their advantage over the potato chip flyer.

The question once again, does anyone really care about parity?

[Ratickle]

The math is not hard here. Let the Fountain race P class, P1, if there is such a thing, or with lots of extra weight or way less revs. BAM! 10 SVL's racing again and everything is headed back in the right direction. Simple, inexpensive. WTF?

Hate to say it, Mike is correct......:sifone:

[2TR]

I thought spec. class was to show-case the latest and greatest technology among boat builders. Than when the older boats became to slow to compete they were dropped into the "P" class.

[Mike A.]

I thought spec. class was to show-case the latest and greatest technology among boat builders. Than when the older boats became to slow to compete they were dropped into the "P" class.

I can only speak for the spec class concept we created with the LLC, and that definitely was not what we intended.

[MANITIE]

There are several ways to enforce parity by the way. It does not have to be, or maybe even should be, weight.

Prop diameter
Drive height
Engine Maximum RPM
Weight


Of these, weight may be the least effective. Some boats run better with more weight. And, in rough water, almost every boat can use the additional weight to their advantage over the potato chip flyer.

The question once again, does anyone really care about parity?

We would crane in the SV Class, I always looked at the Fountains weight..it would go in between 8900 and 9200lbs pending water conditions...our weight for the class was 8k...that boat was just as fast with the extra 450 to 650lbs...

Even in the Activator...we ran the boat with 30 gallons of fuel..it was to fast...we then topped it off with 110 gallons..it runs the same speed..and acually is faster becuase it stays hooked up to the water more...so weight my not be the answer...

[imco offshore]

damn Gino ,,were agree ing again,,,their is so much more to consider ,,surface driving ,props sizes,,,,,I have some pic,s of a boat from Biloxi ,when it was up on the crane,,,and if you look at the same boat now ,???? example ,,if Joan Rivers was to have another face lift ,,her nipples would be on her cheeks,,,

but they have the gaul to cry foul on the 12 yr old boats ,, and now they have convienced some to be content with racing for second ,,and i,ll buy ya a baked potato,,

[Racerguymiami]

So Mike A, do you suggest this is the only option left for the older SVL's. Scroll to 6:41 in the attached video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyxSWupqcRY&feature=related

[Mike A.]

So Mike A, do you suggest this is the only option left for the older SVL's. Scroll to 6:41 in the attached video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyxSWupqcRY&feature=related

Oh, ahahahahahahabwwwaaaaaaahahahahaheheheheheheheohohohohoho. I hope your boat floats.

[Ratickle]

So Mike A, do you suggest this is the only option left for the older SVL's. Scroll to 6:41 in the attached video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyxSWupqcRY&feature=related


Oh, ahahahahahahabwwwaaaaaaahahahahaheheheheheheheohohohohoho. I hope your boat floats.

:D:eek::D

[Mike A.]

I believe the Fountain will be in OB along with another new SVL.

Nice job Ron. You cost Smitty 3-4 extra boats with your pinpoint reporting. So when did the Fountain advise you guys they were not showing up? This always happens. If you had just told the guy to bug off the fleet would have been twice its size with awesome competition. But he either waits to the last minute to tell you he is not coming or he just did not show up. Either way, that's what happens with people like them. And please tell us who the other new boat was supposed to be but did not show up.:toetap05:

[XtremeRacing]

Doc is out of the country...

[Mike A.]

Doc is out of the country...

So what? He just sits in the passenger seat anyway, right? He could have picked anyone to do that? My questions are when did he know he would not be in OB? And when did he inform OPA?

[Racerguymiami]

The B&C Performance Boat was the other. The new owner preferred to not race OB and ship the boat to his home country where he'll get some seat time. Bob Owen was informed. Another is being built. At completion and when it passes tech inspection the first boat will return also for 2011.

[XtremeRacing]

any pics of the new boat??

[imco offshore]

Nice job Ron. You cost Smitty 3-4 extra boats with your pinpoint reporting. So when did the Fountain advise you guys they were not showing up? This always happens. If you had just told the guy to bug off the fleet would have been twice its size with awesome competition. But he either waits to the last minute to tell you he is not coming or he just did not show up. Either way, that's what happens with people like them. And please tell us who the other new boat was supposed to be but did not show up.:toetap05:

sorry Mike you are wrong ,,Smitty called up the others to come up ,,and the 4 others said they could not race..because ,,the othe 5 were TOO FAST and would ruin the show,,so they voted and told the others not to come or go home ,,:huh:

[imco offshore]

it was a great exhibition race ,,they all got their turn up front ,,what a great show svl has become ,,,,ps the fast boats were told they could not compete ,because ,
#1 you were too fast
#2 you did not call in ( to who i don,t know)
#3 you did not run the exhibition race
#4 we had to work on our boats and you didn,
#5 you have fresh equipment ,,,( 12 yr old boat ,,4 yr old engine)
#6 you lost us ALL OUR CORPORATE SPONSOR
#7 we had a meeting ,,and forgot to tell you or call you before you got here..but we knew you were comming.
so now we enter the new generation of ,,I guess you call it racing,,with assigned positions,,

so here we are 5 boats want to go racing ,,and 4 want to go into show business,,
good luck to and be safe,,
__________________

[imco offshore]

well the line is in the sand between the

FAST AND THE FURIOUS ,,LOLOL hhmmmm sounds like a NEW SHOW ,,,

[boatme]

what the heck is this about to fast ?? explain please wow

[SVL66]

sorry Mike you are wrong ,,Smitty called up the others to come up ,,and the 4 others said they could not race..because ,,the othe 5 were TOO FAST and would ruin the show,,so they voted and told the others not to come or go home ,,:huh:

just curious George..what 4 others? You and Steve. who else? If your gonna come on here, whine and expect others to feel bad for you, please tell the whole story. Not just what you want them to know.

You did not show up for the race. You missed race one and now Smitty calls you and invites you up and tells you the fountain is not there and Fridays race was only an exhibition, which was untrue by the way. Now all of the sudden, you feel you can take the title and whatever purse there is, you want to come race. Hmmm, sounds selfish to me. But then again its was always about you anyway. Why should we expect anything different.

[imco offshore]

BRUCE ,,,all,s they had to do was call me and ask,, they knew i was comming they all have my number,,and i have always been a team player,,, ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS ASK...PERIOD,,

[Ratickle]

The B&C Performance Boat was the other. The new owner preferred to not race OB and ship the boat to his home country where he'll get some seat time. Bob Owen was informed. Another is being built. At completion and when it passes tech inspection the first boat will return also for 2011.

We were looking forward to seeing it. Too bad.

[mdkeywest]

We were looking forward to seeing it. Too bad.

There has to be a picture of the completed boat somewhere ? Heard about for months now ,would be nice to see it .

Thanx to whoever posts the pic .

[SVL66]

BRUCE ,,,all,s they had to do was call me and ask,, they knew i was comming they all have my number,,and i have always been a team player,,, ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS ASK...PERIOD,,

No....in my opinion, this was your responsibility to make sure the other teams were ok with you coming to race the second race and still qualify for the championship. Regardless of what Smitty told you.

PERIOD!!!

[Whoz Your Daddy]

My 2 cents
The SVL class is one of the best classes to watch race when all you dopes are out there running together. I wish every one would get on the same page and just find a way to get back to having fun, I have raced 3 seasons in class 5 and have had less drama in 3 years then some of you have in 1 race. I have kicked around getting into an SVL for a couple years now but its crap like this that will keep me and other teams from joining what i think is the most exciting class to watch.
Please get together and all figure out a way to make it fair for all the older boats and get back to having fun. And just maybe SVL could be the best class out there.

Mike O

[SVL66]

My 2 cents
The SVL class is one of the best classes to watch race when all you dopes are out there running together. I wish every one would get on the same page and just find a way to get back to having fun, I have raced 3 seasons in class 5 and have had less drama in 3 years then some of you have in 1 race. I have kicked around getting into an SVL for a couple years now but its crap like this that will keep me and other teams from joining what i think is the most exciting class to watch.
Please get together and all figure out a way to make it fair for all the older boats and get back to having fun. And just maybe SVL could be the best class out there.

Mike O

I think im coming back to class 5 :hurray:

[Whoz Your Daddy]

I think im coming back to class 5 :hurray:

I have had a blast for the last 3 years with a great group of people. Would be a blast to have ya with us bruce.

[extras]

[QUOTE=Whoz Your Daddy;526959] but its crap like this that will keep me and other teams from joining what i think is the most exciting class to watch.

:iagree:

[SVL66]

I have had a blast for the last 3 years with a great group of people. Would be a blast to have ya with us bruce.


i started racing in class 5. Back then, we were lucky to have 7 boats at a race. It has come a long way since then.

[XtremeRacing]

Bruce it was even fun in those day lol

[SVL66]

Bruce it was even fun in those day lol

one thing for sure...there was no drama

[mdkeywest]

:hurray:Randy got a win in .

:seeya:SVL

[imco offshore]

i AGREE BRUCE ,,

[XtremeRacing]

Maybe its time to get back to what we all love and thats racing, let the org. deal with the rest of the BS . I'm sure they can figure it out, I think we have to many cheifs and not enough Indians right now. Spliting classes and more org. is not the anwser! New boats,older boats,faster boats and slower boats its getting crazy.

[imco offshore]

Frank your right,,,,I have had my share of my hand in it ,i know,,,but i know big john does not take this sh1t ,at all ,, and I see smitty closeing the book on the free for all ,
One thing for sure ,,it,s going to get exspensive !! :USA:

[SVL66]

As of my previous posting, I was led to believe that Friday's race results would count, even though it was an exhibition.

I stand corrected that Friday did not count toward final results.

However, my feeling on the matter has not changed.

Lets leave it at that. No need to drag this out. GEORGE,,,,,''''''''/////

[imco offshore]

Bruce ,it,s all good ,,what is ,,is ,,,whats done ,,is done ,,no hard feelings ,,on my side ,,their is 5 months to try to rebuild , start over ,,( svl,s chapter 11 )

[Ratickle]

Well, I've chatted with Smitty, Wil, Teague, a couple teams thinking about moving up into SVL, and all of the SVL owners here. I'll try to be in contact with all of you soon. Smitty has some good ideas I think.

Bruce and George, thanks for cleaning this up and getting things back in order. I really appreciate it.

[smokeybandit]

The solution is simple. Race offshore. The only reason all of these rules are in place is because you are racing around in circles in flat water. The only equalizer you can have is placing all types of restrictions on these boats. All these restrictions do is prevent the boats from doing what they were designed to do. Race offshore and then you won't have to worry about speed limits. Also, yank those GPS's out of the boats and let a navigator do some navigating.

[Gordo]

"racing around in circles in flat water" ? you're joking, right?

My question is- What does the rule book say?
Does the boat fit the printed rules of this class?

And what exactly IS a 525 these days?
Even some of the OSS guys admit the 525 is more like 540+ horsepower

[Mike A.]

"racing around in circles in flat water" ? you're joking, right?

My question is- What does the rule book say?
Does the boat fit the printed rules of this class?

And what exactly IS a 525 these days?
Even some of the OSS guys admit the 525 is more like 540+ horsepower

Gordo - don't bother. The whole thing is a joke and major waste of time. Steve and I are going car racing.

[Fast Shafts]

Did you have to "navigate" when Rocky Aoki brought the course in closer to shore for the benefit of the spectators?

[Ratickle]

"racing around in circles in flat water" ? you're joking, right?

My question is- What does the rule book say?
Does the boat fit the printed rules of this class?

And what exactly IS a 525 these days?
Even some of the OSS guys admit the 525 is more like 540+ horsepower

The 525 runs about 540 to 560 HP at the crank. The 525 rating is at the propshaft.

There are issues with teching the 525 due to the possibilities of modification and people being able to reseal with Merc duplicates

[smokeybandit]

Did you have to "navigate" when Rocky Aoki brought the course in closer to shore for the benefit of the spectators?

Yes we did. Every race had at least 1 long offshore leg. Navigation was an integral part of offshore racing. It still should be. This class that everyone is arguing about should be a great thing. These are exactly the types of boats that should be providing the most competitive racing. I would bet you that if you just let all of these guys race on a long course, they would be ultra-competitive with each other. No GPS, no breakouts. Just man and machinge against the elements. That would make for one hell of a race.

[Wahoo 214]

Yes we did. Every race had at least 1 long offshore leg. Navigation was an integral part of offshore racing. It still should be. This class that everyone is arguing about should be a great thing. These are exactly the types of boats that should be providing the most competitive racing. I would bet you that if you just let all of these guys race on a long course, they would be ultra-competitive with each other. No GPS, no breakouts. Just man and machinge against the elements. That would make for one hell of a race.

Interesting, but how would you insure the safety of the course. We can't get enough patrol boats for a short course let alone helos or med boats.

[phragle]

longer course, less time spent in corners, less chance to spin.......... :D

[mdkeywest]

Yes we did. Every race had at least 1 long offshore leg. Navigation was an integral part of offshore racing. It still should be. This class that everyone is arguing about should be a great thing. These are exactly the types of boats that should be providing the most competitive racing. I would bet you that if you just let all of these guys race on a long course, they would be ultra-competitive with each other. No GPS, no breakouts. Just man and machinge against the elements. That would make for one hell of a race.

YEE HA !!!

[Wahoo 214]

longer course, less time spent in corners, less chance to spin.......... :D

I like that idea!

[Mike A.]

I like that idea!

I can tell you that the run to Bimini and back was great and would have been even better had there been a bunch of other SVL's runinng as an actual race. Not much of a spectator deal but it probably would make a better TV show. And since spectators do not pay anything to watch anyway, I am not sure it matters.

[Wazzup Racing]

just curious George..what 4 others? You and Steve. who else? If your gonna come on here, whine and expect others to feel bad for you, please tell the whole story. Not just what you want them to know.

You did not show up for the race. You missed race one and now Smitty calls you and invites you up and tells you the fountain is not there and Fridays race was only an exhibition, which was untrue by the way. Now all of the sudden, you feel you can take the title and whatever purse there is, you want to come race. Hmmm, sounds selfish to me. But then again its was always about you anyway. Why should we expect anything different.

Let me just clear this up, and then I am out of this topic for life.
The SVL's told me fridays race would not count that they were going to run a scripted race. And by the way, a great show it was. Even Bob Teague announcing on the radio, thought it was for real. Thanks great idea. especially for the filming.
It was I who called George and Mike A. I informed them that the class would only score on sunday. Why not have more boats. That's my job. Unfortunately the class did not agree. More between the lines than I knew.
Sorry George for making you ride all over Florida on Saturday.
Long story short, lots of mixed emotions amongst the competitors in SVL. My advice, get your house in order. There are three other OPA teams considering building or buying an SVL. All are afraid to commit for obvious reasons. Great class, great people, get it together for the fans. See you later, on vacation, Smitty.

[mdkeywest]

A Scripted Race ?

[mdkeywest]

This is not funny , .

[mdkeywest]

WHO asked you to do this "exhibition "which you will NOT do again ?

[4FX]

Wow what a thread!!!! And what a DISAPPOINTMENT!!!!! I've Always wanted to get into racing offshore but why with this SH%t going on.

I'm a spectator and follow as much racing as I can, I grew up doing so with all the races in the 80's and 90's in Eastlake and the other Divisional races in the Great lakes area and the National races that Cleveland had in 01'&02'. that was AWESOME race course I think the best in many years at the time.

I was at the St.Clair races 00' 05' 08' 10' always a great time for me until this year I didn't like the fact that I could see the whole course VERY BORING. Then seeing a "NEW technoligy" boat in this class was exciting but then to see what it did to the class was boring as well. H3ll in 00' they raced around the freighters it made it interesting and was like 13miles if I recall correctly. It was nice seeing the BIG SVL class and the all the boats kinda reminded me of the APBA LLC days.

But anyway to my point AS A SPECTATOR as in reading this also THIS SUCKS that OFFSHORE racing is like this and that YOU RACERS are like this and the ORGS are like this it only hurts OUR sport or hobby whatever we all call it. I might just sit home and watch NASCAR on tv and save my money and NOT go to any races next year bringing unfamiliar friends to the sport due to all this he said he did this and they have that BS. Ahhh whatever you guys don't care about the spectators anyway it seams like anyways it seams cause this happens everyfew years anyways.