The little Sonic that could..Where racing heroes really come from

[T2x]

There were 3 races held this weekend. One in New Jersey, one in North Carolina, and one on Long Island. While I am sure that the races in NJ and NC featured heroic performances, bedazzling talent, and nail biting, though GPS controlled, finishes.... and included local iconic favorites, including legendary, Billy Martin, Joe Sgro, Peter Meyer and others whose presence would have tripled the impact of the the local event, the story of the weekend occurred today in the waters off Long Island.

Let me set the stage for you........

The Around Long Island Marathon, conceived by Billy Frenz and Charlie McCarthy, as a tribute to the late Don Aronow, was set on a fabled course that many of the most respected water warriors in powerboat racing history had battled on. It is a humbling course to say the least. Historically it has captured the minds and hearts of a legion of true racing fans because it’s grueling length and unpredictable conditions has left a trail of champions scratching their heads and soothing their aching limbs after attempting to conquer its challenging layout. It’s a course for true boat racers, conceived by boat racers, and only mastered by the best the sport has ever seen. Bakos, Sirois, Bianco, Lewis, Genth, and Aronow, have all earned their stripes on Long Island’s beautiful but dangerous coastline. There were years when the heavy, well funded favorites fell by the wayside and smaller, humble boats helmed by weary, bloody, stubborn, competitors who all but dragged their hulls across the finish line to victory…..like the time that Rick Stein won the event in a single outboard 16 footer over boats up to 35 feet in length with many times the power….. Like I said, a humbling course with ghosts of racing’s past haunting it still.

Clearly the majority of the current bunch of racing teams preferred partying at Atlantic City before going out to run side by side in GPS controlled formation, or running in single boat classes in Morehead City. Many of the other armchair warriors, who, intended to shake off the rust and enter, had second thoughts or failed to get their equipment ready in time. It became clear the very few guys really have the onions needed to take on this grand daddy of racing challenges.. The bottom line was that only 5 race capable boats made it anywhere near the starting line and only 3 entries actually had the capability and GPS tracking beacons to make a race out of it. One of those was badly outclassed.......... and therein lies the root of this amazing story.

Outer Limits was represented with two dreadnaughts, each capable of breaking Stu Hayim's 3 hour and 20 minute record time for the 257 mile course. One was a new 50' OL Cat with dual 1250 Mercruisers, a world class throttleman, and all the lovely bells and whistles that go along with such a craft. The other was a brand new, purpose built quad diesel 50 foot V bottom sponsored by a major executive consulting group and owned by a professional British team intent on racing in the Round Britain, Cowes Torquay and other iconic European point to point events against big bucks teams with International cash and flair. In short, either of these boats were enough to make the event World class........Both hulls were crafted of the gold, frankincense and myrrh that OL’s mysterious craftsmen layer carefully into micro finished molds before baking them to perfection in an impressive autoclave. Hardware was crafted of exotic materials calculated to endure anything that Mother Nature could dish out. Billet handiwork abounded in both creations and rumor has it that secret NASA metals brought back from deep space exploration was forged into the alloys for the drive components. To say these boats were Uber craft underestimates their true potential. I think they actually exhumed Picasso to lovingly apply the paint on the buttery surface of these extraordinary marine starships.

And then there was ....the other guy.

Joe De Fusco (Sonic30SS on various websites) brought his modest pride and joy over from Connecticut. He and skilled sail boat navigator, Jonathan Tobin, also saw fit to add some weight and experience by inviting veteran racing star, Charlie McCarthy, along for guidance. Joe was a veteran of a few poker runs and often journeys on Long Island Sound's turbulent and confusing waters. Certainly this team was eager and capable of racing, but you have to also consider the knife they brought to this gunfight. Joe's screen name describes his aging 30 foot Sonic, powered by twin 310 small block PCM V-8's which he installed himself a few years ago. These modest power plants hooked up to the water through Mercruiser Alpha SS drives............! You read me correctly....Alpha drives...in an Offshore Race!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The boat has been in seasonal service for decades and while in good shape, was smaller, slower, and clearly outclassed by its mind bending rivals from somewhere north of engineering nirvana........ This race was clearly lopsided.....against the Sonic 30's crew.

Equipped with GPS tracking beacons and a web based software package designed to track America's cup races. The competitors idled out of Manhasset Bay towards the entrance buoy that marked the start finish of this fabled event. After a brief pause the race started at 9:13 AM and, as expected, the big 7 figure cat hurtled to triple digit speeds as it disappeared into the salty haze in the general direction of the sun. Meanwhile the 4 Euro Diesels in the massive monohull struggled mightily against their own weight to finally bring the bow over and began to spool up to its near century mark cruising speed.
Oh yeah….the other guy headed east with them at about 60 mph……. Seas seemed to be ideal, 2 to 3’s with an even pattern out of the northeast

By the Smithtown Bay stretch it seemed obvious that Outer Limits was going to have a good day. The GPS beacons were beaming locations, direction, and speed (in knots) back to race HQ and all was right in the Hi performance stratosphere that only a few individuals can experience or afford. The ghosts of Long Island races past seemed millions of miles and many years…..away. And then these spirits returned carrying an ironic sense of humor.

First the cat, clearly on pace for a record although navigating on the rougher southern shore of the Sound made an abrupt turn into Port Jefferson and appeared to be stopping at the town dock. Reached by cell phone the crew announced that the water was “too rough” to set a record, and they had stopped for breakfast… I swear at that moment I heard a groan emanating from Sam Griffith’s grave.

Then the mighty British diesel entry made an abrupt reversal in course and slowed to 7 knots…..Later communication revealed that some failed pieces in their unobtainium laden drive train had rendered two engines useless…… I swear I heard Carl Kiekhaefer laugh out loud simultaneously.

All of this happened out of sight of the Sonic whose crew were running right down the center of Long Island Sound in a perfect course for Orient Point. Later they reported that there had been no seas of any significant size in that leg of the race… Perhaps, Red Crise or Bob Nordskog were calming the seas in front of them from their perches in heaven’s race control?

We watched spellbound as the little global mapping widget moved inexorably into the lead!!! We high fived as it passed one, then the other of OL’s million dollar duo. We watched with excitement as it picked ts way passed Rocky Point, Matittuck, and Green Port…and honed in on Plum Gut for what had to be the roughest leg… Orient Point to Montauk…. where racers are separated forever from posers, wannabes, and never weres.

And then the little Sonic icon on the map disappeared……

Knowing the course as I do, I realized that this is where we actually lost boats for up to two days in the past. This was were the Sound begins to meet the ocean…..this was where the bad things live.

We waited, we worried, we wished,……..

And then just as all seemed to be lost, that this iconic race might be reduced to Frenz’s folly…. That nobody would even reach half way… a liitle shape appeared on the screen…the Sonic was on the South Shore heading Westbound……they had turned at Montauk and were still in the race. We saw her head into Shinnecock….and I took a chance and called Charlie….he answered after what seemed a thousand rings on his cell phone and I heard a sort of defeat in his voice…. The power steering had failed, a trim pump had gone away, and they felt weary and defeated by the two juggernauts that had ran away and left them behind……. I took a pause and said…”Charlie, tell those guys not to quit,,,,You’re winning this damn thing!!!!!!” . I heard amazement, joy, and strength all soaring back into his voice. They fueled up, fixed the steering and blazed their way into history……….. Because a couple of hours later they had won the Don Aronow Memorial Around Long Island Marathon!....

Not bad for a hopeless underdog, who had no chance and nothing gonig for them but desire and respect for the historical opportunity that comes along so rarely in a racers life.

Joe and Jonathan earned my respect today. Charlie already had it. You see there are 3 heros tonight, probably rubbing linament on aching limbs and bandaging the deeper gashes. I imagine the boat will never be quite the same either….. They have no sponsor or backer, They had no mega boat, or big budget team. They had no support trailers, helicopter, or bikini clad groupies. They didn't have star struck fans drooling over the cash invested in their efforts. All they had was heart, desire and a sense of history. But they are winners… real winners…...and by God they are champions in an event that has reduced the great ones to mincemeat time and time again.

They can sleep well tonight and smile with satisfaction.

I know somewhere Don Aronow is smiling too……..

[Ratickle]

Congratulations to the team of Sonic 30SS. Great job.

And thanks to Rich for a typically outstanding written rendering of an offshore event for all of us to read.

Do we have an official time yet?

[teamsynergy]

T2x,
Very nice write up... glad to here of a fellow sonic owner succeeding in such a feat. Looking forward to hearing more about it and maybe some pics...

[PARADOX]

Nice little novel.. T2 :) Congrats to the little Sonic that could.

[BUIZILLA]

wow..... :26:

how cool is this :cheers2: :cheers2: :cheers2:

didn't the 30 Sonic hull expand from the 24' Donzi hull that Sonic inherited? how fitting would that be...

[Bobcat]

I think that is an awesome story......:)

[Sean Stinson]

woohoo the man has some set of onions

[phragle]

TRue offshore racing, not an 8 lap drag race along the beach. The little sonic didn't race the competition, they raced themselves and the water. They finished and they won.

[Slandrew]

Great win that is some long race!

[Bobby Sheer]

If you can't feel yourself in that Sonic after reading Rich's posting then you're in the wrong sport. That is what off-shore racing is all about.

You need someone that has been there, done that, to give a true picture of what this sport SHOULD be all about.

My hat is off to everyone that was involved and to Rich for a great overview of the events.

[NNRT]

Well Done Richie - sorry I could not make it there -

Phil

[fund razor]

So these guys didn't just win their class unopposed, it seems.
They took the whole dam race? Amazing.

Great story. Thanks.

[BUIZILLA]

let's see a pic of the winning boat and crew

[MiamiOffshore]

Wow!! What a story.....I am so f'in happy for the crew of the "30SONICSS"!
This is what it's all about!
CONGRATS!

[J-Bonz]

Great writing Rich!

[Top Banana]

Rich, Thank you so much for your kind words.

This is really the story of Joe and Jonathan, but I'd like to add some of my own observations from the best seat in the house.

I was very fortunate to be offered a crew position on a boat that was entered in the Don Aronow Memorial Around Long Island Race this past weekend. It is a mid 80’s Sonic that is 30 feet long and powered with twin small blocks with Alpha Mercruiser drives with cooling showers on them. It is a production boat, not a special one off race boat.

The owner of the boat Joe De Fusco is not only the rigger, chief mechanic and truck driver for the team, he is also the driver and throttleman on the boat. He invited a friend of his to be the navigator. His friend Jonathan Tobin is not a power boater, but he is a highly experienced racer from the world of offshore sailboat racing with many experiences including a Trans Pac race under his belt. Jon has gone on a few poker runs with Joe, so he kind of knew what to expect…not really, as he found out quickly, poker runs and offshore races are very different.

I was the last member of the crew and as Joe explained very clearly up front, the boat only had two bolsters and the only place for me would be to stand behind the bolsters and astride of the life raft case mounted on the floor. I did have grab handles on the backs of the two bolsters but no lean back bolster. Knowing exactly what I was getting into I readily accepted the very generous invitation.

I won’t go into the various promises by both individuals and boat companies to enter the race, but when race day dawned we had just 5 boats. Two big state of the art Outerlimits, a cat and big deep vee, with a British Team on board. The third boat was an 18 foot Donzi entered by a team that had never raced before, but had driven all night from Virginia just to get here and be part of the event. Unfortunately on the trip up, the water pickup for the engine had broken after rubbing against part of the trailer. I believe the trailer was borrowed, so they could make the journey and they didn’t realize the boat had shifted enroute. Another single engine boat, a 27 footer was entered, but the owner stated beforehand that he was only going to run with us at the start and go down the sound a short way. Last but not least was our little 30 foot Sonic.

The big 53 foot Magnum owned by Guy La Motta was our pace boat. As we rumbled toward the start, one of the boats jumped the start by not waiting for the green flag and our driver started to go also. I tapped him on the shoulder and told him to wait for the green, he backed off and in a few seconds the Magnum was abeam us and soon the remaining boats lined up and then the green was up and the race was on.

The Outerlimits cat was soon just a dot of spray ahead of us and we began to settle into a nice pace. The navigator was holding a hand held GPS unit and was signaling the port or starboard adjustments to our driver. We had a newly installed front fuel tank with 50 gallons in it and our plan was to burn that off first so that when we hit the ocean, we would just be using the factory installed fuel tanks and not have to worry about the weight sloshing around this jury rigged front tank. It would also shift the center of gravity further back.

The inevitable happened next, the 52 foot, quad engine deep vee British entry Outerlimits had spooled up and was now passing us and headed off to catch the cat on the horizon. We realized this was the first run for the deep vee and there might be some bugs still to be worked out, but we were hoping they would do well after the enormous expense they had in coming to support our race. We waved good luck to them on and watched as their spray began to grow in the distance chasing the cat.

Now the hard part of the race began. This is the time when you need mental discipline to be alone and not have a boat to race against or the crowds to cheer you on. Only the crew on the boat knows for sure if you are pushing or not. Are you babying the boat and yourself or are you pushing as hard as you can and going for the win, regardless of what the facts are telling you? I am very happy to report this crew was pushing just like they were old hands at this stuff.

At this point on the north side of the sound, the water was fairly calm and I took advantage of that fact, to actually sit down in the rear bench seat and get down out of the wind over the deck…..this was a big mistake as I will explain later.

We ran through the front tank in about 50 minutes….so I informed the crew that our burn rate was 1 gallon per minute at the speeds we could run in calmer waters. We stopped briefly to switch the fuel lines form the front tank back to the rear tanks. At that point, I was able to give Joe some old school tips about small adjustments that he could make to his driving style. He understood immediately and used them for the rest of the race to our advantage. I say at that point, because the intercoms in the helmets stopped working at about the same time the green flag was raised…old school forever, yell louder and deeper.

When the fuel was switched and we were ready top take off again, we discovered that one trim tab was no longer working, it was stuck in the up position. So Joe, very expertly began rocking the boat to trick it to make it think it was a flat bottom and head for the trough of the waves and pretty soon we were up and running again. I tapped him again and said sincerely..”Nice job buddy”.

When we were stopped for a quick moment I took advantage of that time to grab a trail bar and get it down for some more energy, that I knew we would be needing in the ocean. As the trip went on, I began feeling very sickly and could feel my strength starting to drain away. I thought for sure the trail bar had been bad and was making me sick. As we rounded Orient Point and heading for Montauk, I was having a hard time holding on the bars behinds the bolsters and was trying to find a more steady position to brace myself.
Suddenly just as we rounded Montauk, and on one of the bigger waves that was rolling under us with a lot of energy, the boat veered to the left and we all were thrown hard against the starboard side. Joe quickly informed us the power steering was gone and he was going to look under the hatch to see if a belt had popped off.

While Joe was checking the engines, I changed positions with Jon and I took my helmet off and sat in the cold breeze and really started feeling ready to heave that trail bar. Joe realized that it wasn’t a belt, but he did spot oil spray all over back there and knew we had a leak of the power steering fluid from one of the hoses. The waves were much too big to do much more so we headed off for our fuel stop at Shinnecock. Jon gracious allowed me to stay up front in the bolster and he assumed my old position as the navigating here was just a run down the coast to the inlet. I told thme if I didn’t fgeel any better drop me off at the gas dock and they could continue on as I didn’t want to hold them up from going as fast as they could.

When we got to Shinnecock, the waves were very big, very big. I’m not going to get into size here, but they were big. As we approached the inlet, the waves were breaking a way offshore and then surfing into the inlet itself. Joe managed without power steering or both trim tabs to bring the 30 foot boat in front a just the right wave and then proceed to use the power to surf the wave all the way into the inlet. At one point the entire length of the boat was on the face of the wave and heading down faster and faster, but he managed to keep it straight and true and we made it safe and sound.

When we entered the inlet, we could see a lot of boats, bit boats that would rise and fall with the waves. Sometimes we could see them and other times they were down in the trough. I thought to myself…this is really great to have this many boats to welcome us here at the gas stop, that Billy Frenz really put the word out. As we got closer we could see they were the day charter fishing boats loaded with people who were fishing in the inlet. We found out later, that the waves were too big for them to get out, so they just fished right there.

As we pulled into the gas dock Jon roused himself from the rear seat and said that it wasn’t the trail bar that made me sick, it was the gas fumes in the cockpit and that he now was very sick also. Since I had been riding up front in the bolster, I was now feeling much better. When we stopped we could clearly smell the fumes from the front tank. The two front positions were free of much of it as the breeze over the deck cleared it away, but the person in the back had the fumes swirl around them especially if they sat down and got lower in the cockpit. Just then the phone rang???????????

It was Rich Luhrs. He said why are you stopped? I said we were at a fuel stop and had a couple of problems…one trim tab wasn’t working, the cockpit was filling with fumes, the power steering had failed as we lost fluid and even though it was cold, Joe was soaked in sweat as he had been driving from Montauk in very big water with no power steering. Rich responded as only an old racer would…Well, get it all fixed quick and come on home as your in the lead!!!!! What did you say? I asked him. You guys are in the lead, the other boats have dropped out on the north shore, no one even made it to Orient Point, so come on home and you’re the winners.

[Top Banana]

Still very tired, so I will finish tom'w

Thanks again to everyone!!

[MiamiOffshore]

NO Charlie ... THANK YOU!

Angel

[PARADOX]

Looking forward to the "rest of the story" :)

You always have dibs on front seat with me Charlie.

66357

[boatme]

waiting with baited anticipation :)

Great story

[Magic Medicine]

VERY cool story!!!!

[Top Banana]

Here is some more to keep the story going.

So here is the scene at this point. We are stopped for fuel and repairs and we just found out we are in the lead. Jon had jumped up on the dock and was getting as much clean air into his lungs as possible. Joe had started the fueling process and I was trying to make mental checklist of priorities to get done. Meanwhile all of my experience was trying to do me in at this point. I kept thinking, never quit, never quit, we didn’t really know what was wrong with the other boats and I thought they too may be just stopping for some necessary repairs and they would soon be up and coming after us. I could already hear their engines as they tried to pass us in the ocean. At this point we just had to slow down and focus our efforts on what needed to be done.

I stopped Joe and got his attention and said remember..Fast is Slow and Slow is Fast. Just do one task at a time and work slowly on it so that it is done the best way possible. He repeated… Fast is Slow and Slow is Fast, back to me and just grinned. I got it, he said.

The first problem we encountered was the gas dock had no power steering fluid for the power steering pump. So we decided that the lowest grade of motor oil was the next best thing and we got a few quarts of that. (I remembered when Bobby Saccenti and Sonny Miller won the first Benihana in La Tortuga, they were running low on oil and when they needed more and didn’t have any, they used anything they could find that was close to it, like transmission fluid). When our pump was full again, we started the engine and I turned the wheel back and forth until Joe, who was under the hatch could spot the leak in one of the hoses. We shut the engine off and took stock of what we had onboard to repair the problem. No replacement hoses, but we did have another hose that was slightly larger than the broken one. Okay, slice the larger hose with a knife down the length and put it around the leaky hose, then put on as many hose clamps as we could scavenge and it would at least slow down the leak for awhile.

Next problem was the trim tab that would stay in an up position. Joe found a piece of wire that he used to hot wire the pump to go down to the lowest setting. For some reason the pump worked lifting the tab, but it would not push it back down again. While he was back there, he also discovered that the old return lines from the original Mercury fuel injection engines, was leaking. That was part of the fume problem, but most of it came from the front tank for some reason. He secured the return line the best he could and we were ready to go again. Jon was back, good and healthy and I had recovered fully from being away from the fumes for a while.

I told Joe that so far he was running the boat as good as anyone could. I sensed that he had some frustration with some of the brutal wave conditions between Orient Point and Montauk. I told him the only problem he was really having, was asking this little boat to handle those conditions at speed. The only solution for it was boat length. He was doing just fine.

We now faced the exit out of the inlet. We had some hearty cheers from the fishermen on the charter boats and we started out. We couldn’t determine where the no wake zone ended, but we were already being lifted by the rollers, so Joe just nailed it and off we went. The boat rolled onto a plane and he began to trim up the problem tab….it all worked beautiful. The face of the waves coming in were a sight to behold, reminded me of Argentina in 1978, Big Momas for sure. Joe kept it steady and didn’t rush anything, but just felt our way out past the breaking surf line and still out even more just to be safe. When we finally turned west, we were at least a half mile out and clear of all the breaking waters.

The new riding position for me now, was standing directly behind Joe with my head leaning out over the side to keep inhaling clean air. As we encountered various conditions and seas, he would ask for some suggestions regarding trim and I gave him my best guesses and it seemed to work just fine.

The beach along the south side of the island would go out of sight as we dropped in a trough and then would reappear as we came up again, over and over we repeated this same scenario. I watched in amusement as the two new offshore racers experienced the weightlessness of the jumps. Back in the days to pass the time of the long legs, we counted the seconds we were in the air as 1001, 1002, 1003 etc. And as in all races, there is that one wave that we all remember. When our turn came for the biggest wave to find us, both Joe and Jon just looked at each other when we landed and went… Whoaaaaa!!!!

Below is a photo of the master....Sammy James, flying his 38 foot Bertram back in the days.

[SVL66]

what a rush!...thanks

[rschap1]

INCREDIBLE!!
Congrats!!

[Top Banana]

Next installment......

By now the boat was starting to come undone a bit. Remember this is a family cruiser, not a purpose built race boat. At the fuel stop, we carefully stowed the cabinet doors that had come flying off and repositioned the other items that had come loose. Before the rear seat was stowed again, the extra quarts of motor oil were put safely away for future use later in the race. This was also the official burial of the intercoms. This was a safety move, as on one wave off Montauk, we came down so hard the intercom unit on Joe’s belt flew off and came right in front of me. I grabbed it by the cord as it was headed over the side and managed to flip it forward so that Jon could catch it and shove it in a compartment near him….all this while holding on with one hand and trying not to throw up on my new Lifeline jacket. Great fun, better than golfing, for sure.

On the run toward Manhattan, we were amused by the two strings of white something or other that kept flapping over the deck of the boat. I guessed the Don Aronow race stickers had come to tatters, but we found out that the calking between the deck and the hull had loosened with each crash and was now flapping back at us like long tethers of a spider web. My hands were now starting to cramp up as the grab handle behind the bolster was fine for my left hand, but the thin grab rail on the right side of the boat was too small for that hand and I couldn’t get a good grip

Meanwhile up front, Joe had forgotten to put his gloves back on and was now driving and throttling with bare hands. I thought that somebody is going to have a big blister tonight. Jon was trying to adjust to the conditions as best he could, but he was still in the process of learning how to do a smooth reentry by using your legs for shock absorbers and every now and then I could hear a loud groan or sound over the engines, as he caught a bad landing again and again.

As I had plenty of free time I could let my mind wander to the great racers of the past who covers these same waters in their quest for glory. As good as the win was going to be, I trembled having to face Brownie who could now say, “Good show, but I won that race in a smaller boat (28 foot Donzi) and in less time (under 5 hours) over 40 years ago.”

I also remembered my phone call with Bobby Sacenti just before I got on the boat to go out to the start. He reminded me of the trick we used to pull on new drivers when they first showed up to race in Open class. They would be there with all new equipment and beaming from ear to ear with eager anticipation of joining this new fraternity. We would sidle up to them and say….”It is kind of secret with the Open class guys, but there is a $1,000 prize for the first guy who can get to the first checkpoint, just wanted you to be aware of it.” Our hope of course, was they would go all out and blow up before the real racing started. Bobby said to go and tell the two Outerlimits guys, it would make their day.

Back to the race….we are still heading west…damn that is one long beach. I have now started to visualize the towers of Manhattan on the horizon. I knew we still had miles to go but I could dream couldn’t I? I also kept looking back over my shoulder, just in case the repairs had been done to the Outerlimits boats. Joe was still pushing and the waves were still building and the little Sonic was still looking good. My new job was to take one of the water bottles that had now broken loose and was rolling around the floor and squeeze enough water out of it to clean Joe’s glasses, as they were coating over with salt with each major hit and spray blowback we were taking. I managed to do this by letting go and squirting while we were in mid air….then grabbing on for the landing and then wiping dry on the next launch.

As we closed toward New York City I could see that the power steering was running low on fluid and Joe was fighting to keep the boat straight on the landings. We would soon be stopping and topping off again, hopefully we could make it out of the ocean waters and into the harbor, where that kind of work would be much easier. As we passed Coney Island, we took one of the biggest landings of the trip and I could both hear and see Jon physically take it all the wrong way. Without the helmet, I’m sure he would have tears in his eyes on that one. But soon we were into calmer waters and things started to look up…..until we passed a ferry and heard a loud pop and the boat lurched to the port side.

We came off plane and checked under the hatch and found a missing belt on the power steering. We used this stop to fill up the power steering pump again and put on the new belt and of course hot wire the trim pump again to get that tab down so we could get on plane……pretty soon we could do this in the dark.


As we got moving again, I checked with Joe to remind him to not lose this race by doing anything stupid. slow down for every boat wake, be careful in the East River for refrigerators, dead horses or whatever else may be coming down. He said he was already thinking that way and we took off for the final leg. At this point I must confess, I became a bit weepy as we passed by the Statue of Liberty and I thought how blessed we were to be able to defend this cup from going over to Britain. How this is what America is all about, not having the best or even being the best, but never, ever giving up or losing the confidence in ourselves that this can be done and will be done.

The East River was deceptively calm for a while but then coming toward us, there was a big red fireboat from the NYFD, putting up a wake like we were back at Montauk again. Joe handled it very smoothly and we were then looking for the last few bridges to go under.

There was a bit of confusion in the many waterways of the river but thanks to Jon’s careful navigational preparation, he knew exactly where to go and where to stay away from. We were out from under the last bridge and heading toward the finish. We swept past the finish line and Joe threw the boat in a dramatic 180 degree turn. (Kind of like the NASCAR guys do after they win) We high fived each other and just let the victory sink in. David against Goliath. One for the little guys. If you can conceive it and believe it, you can achieve it.

We headed back into the harbor and were met by the guy from Virginia in his Donzi that he fixed up enough to be out there to welcome us in and little Sam (Minihawk) in his little outboard. As we pulled up to the marina, we could see that not only were our own friends and family there, but the entire British crew had made their way back from the harbor where they left their boat, to be on hand to welcome us back in and congratulate us on the victory. Real show of class there for sure.

[Big Time]

Great story!

[Top Banana]

Some photos from that day.

[Magic Medicine]

Unbelievable!!! Congrats!!!!!

[boatme]

thanks Charlie for the great story congrats to the sonic team

[BBB725]

Awesome story, thanks for sharing!

[Bobcat]

I love this stuff !:hurray:

[sbracing]

Clearly the majority of the current bunch of racing teams preferred partying at Atlantic City before going out to run side by side in GPS controlled formation

Great story and sounds like a great event, but why do you need to continually
make assumtions about teams you know nothing about. Again, you make a broad statement that we are all partiers and less than legitimate racers. I could make the assumtion that since you raced in the 70's and 80's, that you smuggled drugs, since all of you did back then?

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but every time you try to make a point by belittling others you look like Eddie Murphy in Shrek.

Rich Smith
Smith Brothers Offshore Racing Team
Cotner Trailers .com 611
Offshore Powerboat Association

[Buoy]

Congrats to these guys!! That is an awesome story.
Thanks for sharing it.

[Buoy]

Rick - sbracing...

Just my opinion, but I don't think Rich bit into the other events so bad to have that reply.
Let the guys enjoy the moment of glory they deserve. I just don't think your reply belongs in this thread, but again, only my opinion.
Quite honestly, I've always been a fan of the Cotner Trailers boat, I know you guys are a smaller race team, running an older boat.
But this is a historic race, and more the kind of racing that I think alot of us have more interest in.
To win this race, you have to be more calculating, and more adaptive to conditions and circumstances that come about. That is what this story is all about. Persistence.
I applaud these guys, and I doubt that boat will ever be the same again, but they hung it out there and didn't pull off course when even the big boys did.
I doubt these racers will ever be the same again either.
Just giving them the credit they deserve.
I understand Rich can be a bit harsh at times, but his story wasn't about anyone other than the boys in the old Sonic.
They deserve it.

[BUIZILLA]

a beach race is NOT an ocean race...

[Bobby Sheer]

a beach race is NOT an ocean race...



Right on. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

[T2x]

Great story and sounds like a great event, but why do you need to continually make assumtions about teams you know nothing about.
Rich Smith
Smith Brothers Offshore Racing Team
Cotner Trailers .com 611
Offshore Powerboat Association

I know you weren't there..........!

[T2x]

They do deserve it. I have been a fan of offshore all my life. I watched the author race himself. My issue is that he seems to need to degrade bracket racing everytime he writes something. I understand it is not for everyone.
But for many of us, it is the only way we could do this. Rich may not like it along with many others, but the fact is it does work for some of us. There is certainly room for everyone to do their own thing. In addition, this is the second time he has made a statement that we are at races to get drunk and party and chest thump and are not in his opinion, racers. I take offense at that insinuation as I don't drink or chest thump and I think we do, in fact,
race hard.

For the record this is about The Around Long Island Race....and not you.

There are numerous other forums where you and the other racers can talk about yourselves...positively or negatively.

Deal with it.

[T2x]

As I said, it sounds like it was a great event. However, you post included discussions regarding me and the other racers and therefore I feel right in commenting on the content of your post.

That's nice.......are you finished?

[Top Banana]

My wife and I are having dinner tonight with Dean Gibbs and his wife. Dean is the British team owner with the 52 foot Outerlimits that raced last weekend Around Long Island. We met for a short time today and he said that he already has texts and e-mails from other owners in Europe and the UK, that he feels they will be coming back next year with at least four teams, to get that trophy and bring it back to Europe.

Maybe this is the time that we should actually make the break here and say what has been on our minds for a while. I am speaking about the older racers. I know Rich caught some heat from a racer who thought he criticized the modern racers. Let me be very clear and I share this with the other guys I know……..We welcome all racers as brothers in a very special fraternity. Our complaint is with the major sponsors and organizers. They have taken what we all love with a deep passion and made it into a very poor reflection of what it was.

Let me use as an example major sports…pick either football or hockey, whatever you happen to like best. Now you loved that sport as you grew up and you waited every year for the finals…the Superbowl or the Stanley Cup….. and you watched the battles down to the end. Years pass and now football is played without helmets or pads and to get a goal you are only allowed to pass. Or hockey can only be played without pads and there is no checking allowed. The athletes just coming into the sport don’t know any difference, they are playing according to the new rules and they are playing their hearts out. No one is criticizing the athletes the criticism goes to those who changed the rules of the game.

Beach racing is not Offshore Racing !!!! You know it, we know it, but we all dance around the fact that everyone has latched onto that title because it carries a certain cache’ with it. We don’t disrespect in any way the racers who run hydros or Jersey skiffs or SK’s boats or any other type of racing. But don’t run 7 liter hydros and call them Unlimiteds because they really aren’t.

Real open ocean offshore racing doesn’t need a million dollar boat or team. It just takes heart and determination and lots of preparation. That was just proven this past weekend. Too many potential racers are sitting on the beach not participating because they go to the “Offshore” race and see all the equipment and think they can’t afford that. This excellent equipment with great people on every team, pour their hearts out to be there and then they are asked to race around on a 6 mile loop for ten laps. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is not Miami to Nassau or Long beach to San Francisco or Cowes to Torquay to Cowes. It is boat racing for sure, but it is not offshore racing.

All of us have been duped by the organizers who say we need this to attract sponsors and TV coverage. If you race offshore no one can see you and they will lose interest. Really? The Benihana race in New Jersey had so many spectators in the 1970’s, that the Coast Guard required the race to be run on a Wednesday as to try to limit the crowds. Estimates of crowd sizes were in the 400,000 range.

Allof us have been duped by the boatbuilders who let sales drive their designs. Real improvements on new boats haven’t made them any more seaworthy or the owners any more confident in taking on the ocean. New developments have centered around how many logos could be fit into the cockpit of the latest version of the XYZ Craft plus 6, or whatever…you fill in the blank. The fastest boats that are termed offshore now run on a lake in the middle of the country and run for a measured mile. It is a great party and great event that does good things, but…Offshore???

The World Championships of offshore run on a course that can be seen by standing on the dock…..what happened to the run to Dry Tortugas???

It is time for the people that are interested in getting the sport of offshore back to it’s roots to step up. The Around Long Island Race will be run next year. We encourage anyone with a boat capable of running in this event to come. Find out what the mystery is all about, find out what you really have inside you when the going gets not just tough, but to anyone else, impossible.

We have waited and hesitated and tried to be cordial to everyone, changing our date to help others and then they changed to hurt us. Enough. We are starting a real open ocean offshore circuit. We encourage the industry people to come forward and get involved. Enough of the exotic uber engines that shut down to “save” the engine. Build something that doesn’t need to shut down but will still be seaworthy and last the whole race. Boat builders…build them simple and strong and leave off the Gold Frankincense and Myrrh and drop the retail price, but build them seaworthy because these new customers won’t just be showing them off at the local waterside bars, they will be using them in the real ocean out where the bad things live.

Rich, Bobby, myself and others have nothing more to gain from this sport. Our reputations have been cast.

Racers, we do respect you and we offer an invitation to come and try this real shot o history. If you choose not to, we fully understand and respect your decision, you are still racing in the area you have chosen. Good luck and good racing to you all.

[Flying Dutchman]

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hu rray::iagree:

[BUIZILLA]

that pretty much sums it up... :iagree:

[T2x]

I got an e-mail and a phone call from Stu Hayim who, along with his throttleman, Joe Imprescia, hold the existing Around Long Island Record at 3 hours 6 minutes...... but he admits that it took him a couple of years, a lot of sweat and blood and 2 separate boats to finally make that record happen.

He congratulates last weekends winners and sends his best wishes to the people who finally succeed in breaking his record....which is 21 years old.

If you want to call yourself an Offshore Racer....this race is an opportunity to earn that title.

[quicklt1]

I am new to these boards..and hey T2x..I like you already!! Rob(quicklt1) here on Long Island

[T2x]

I am new to these boards..and hey T2x..I like you already!! Rob(quicklt1) here on Long Island

Thank you.....

Please also support SBracing as he apparently needs lots of positive reinforcement...........:D

T2x

[quicklt1]

This is what we are talking about!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMCCNGnKlM&feature=fvw

[quicklt1]

And to bad these guys didnt show up saturday that would of really made things interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7vurWhdgFE

[fund razor]

My wife and I are having dinner tonight with Dean Gibbs and his wife. Dean is the British team owner with the 52 foot Outerlimits that raced last weekend Around Long Island. We met for a short time today and he said that he already has texts and e-mails from other owners in Europe and the UK, that he feels they will be coming back next year with at least four teams, to get that trophy and bring it back to Europe.

Maybe this is the time that we should actually make the break here and say what has been on our minds for a while. I am speaking about the older racers. I know Rich caught some heat from a racer who thought he criticized the modern racers. Let me be very clear and I share this with the other guys I know……..We welcome all racers as brothers in a very special fraternity. Our complaint is with the major sponsors and organizers. They have taken what we all love with a deep passion and made it into a very poor reflection of what it was.

Let me use as an example major sports…pick either football or hockey, whatever you happen to like best. Now you loved that sport as you grew up and you waited every year for the finals…the Superbowl or the Stanley Cup….. and you watched the battles down to the end. Years pass and now football is played without helmets or pads and to get a goal you are only allowed to pass. Or hockey can only be played without pads and there is no checking allowed. The athletes just coming into the sport don’t know any difference, they are playing according to the new rules and they are playing their hearts out. No one is criticizing the athletes the criticism goes to those who changed the rules of the game.

Beach racing is not Offshore Racing !!!! You know it, we know it, but we all dance around the fact that everyone has latched onto that title because it carries a certain cache’ with it. We don’t disrespect in any way the racers who run hydros or Jersey skiffs or SK’s boats or any other type of racing. But don’t run 7 liter hydros and call them Unlimiteds because they really aren’t.

Real open ocean offshore racing doesn’t need a million dollar boat or team. It just takes heart and determination and lots of preparation. That was just proven this past weekend. Too many potential racers are sitting on the beach not participating because they go to the “Offshore” race and see all the equipment and think they can’t afford that. This excellent equipment with great people on every team, pour their hearts out to be there and then they are asked to race around on a 6 mile loop for ten laps. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is not Miami to Nassau or Long beach to San Francisco or Cowes to Torquay to Cowes. It is boat racing for sure, but it is not offshore racing.

All of us have been duped by the organizers who say we need this to attract sponsors and TV coverage. If you race offshore no one can see you and they will lose interest. Really? The Benihana race in New Jersey had so many spectators in the 1970’s, that the Coast Guard required the race to be run on a Wednesday as to try to limit the crowds. Estimates of crowd sizes were in the 400,000 range.

Allof us have been duped by the boatbuilders who let sales drive their designs. Real improvements on new boats haven’t made them any more seaworthy or the owners any more confident in taking on the ocean. New developments have centered around how many logos could be fit into the cockpit of the latest version of the XYZ Craft plus 6, or whatever…you fill in the blank. The fastest boats that are termed offshore now run on a lake in the middle of the country and run for a measured mile. It is a great party and great event that does good things, but…Offshore???

The World Championships of offshore run on a course that can be seen by standing on the dock…..what happened to the run to Dry Tortugas???

It is time for the people that are interested in getting the sport of offshore back to it’s roots to step up. The Around Long Island Race will be run next year. We encourage anyone with a boat capable of running in this event to come. Find out what the mystery is all about, find out what you really have inside you when the going gets not just tough, but to anyone else, impossible.

We have waited and hesitated and tried to be cordial to everyone, changing our date to help others and then they changed to hurt us. Enough. We are starting a real open ocean offshore circuit. We encourage the industry people to come forward and get involved. Enough of the exotic uber engines that shut down to “save” the engine. Build something that doesn’t need to shut down but will still be seaworthy and last the whole race. Boat builders…build them simple and strong and leave off the Gold Frankincense and Myrrh and drop the retail price, but build them seaworthy because these new customers won’t just be showing them off at the local waterside bars, they will be using them in the real ocean out where the bad things live.

Rich, Bobby, myself and others have nothing more to gain from this sport. Our reputations have been cast.

Racers, we do respect you and we offer an invitation to come and try this real shot o history. If you choose not to, we fully understand and respect your decision, you are still racing in the area you have chosen. Good luck and good racing to you all.
Thanks for this post.

[PARADOX]

This is what we are talking about!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMCCNGnKlM&feature=fvw

Ohhh Yeeaaah the good ole' days.
I admit, I have never been in an F-15 or a fighter jet. But I frakinguaranty you that any "fly boys" would have PURE white knuckles flying a "V" bottem 15' out of the water at 40+ degrees.
For the love of our sport. :biggrinjester:

66427

[Slandrew]

:cool:
I got an e-mail and a phone call from Stu Hayim who, along with his throttleman, Joe Imprescia, hold the existing Around Long Island Record at 3 hours 6 minutes...... but he admits that it took him a couple of years, a lot of sweat and blood and 2 separate boats to finally make that record happen.

He congratulates last weekends winners and sends his best wishes to the people who finally succeed in breaking his record....which is 21 years old.

If you want to call yourself an Offshore Racer....this race is an opportunity to earn that title.Thats like trying to beat Ken Warby tough record 3hrs6 minutes was Hayim boat blue if so I have a picture of it:seeya:

[NNRT]

Well Said Charlie and Rich - !

That is exactly how I got started back in 1972 - a production hull - nothing fancy - many other faster boats - Running from Point Pleasant to Fire Island Inlet, back to Brooklyn, and south to Point Pleasant - many got lost, many broke - but our boat was navigated by a fisherman who knew the mud hole and more - the result after running by ourselves in rough water was a win - ! I always knew it was not the fastest boat that would win, it was the one that stayed together !

As for T2X - I knew to keep my mouth SHUT - when in the Helicopter - His ability to explain, and be interesting, and funny were the reasons NNRT was simply the best at the time !

All the best to you Charlie and Billy Frenz for this event - !

Phil

[SteveDavid]

Congratulations! What a test of man and machine, of commitment, of desire, truly what the origins of Offshore racing were made of. Hats off to you little Sonic, and to Rich and Charlie for converting the realities (brutality) of the event into a wonderful read.
Steve U-1

[boatme]

great comments Rich & Charlie i am interested in helping with your atttempt to bring offshore racing back. Lets not forget the Great Lakes

Check this out from back in the 80's they papers werre saying the spectator fleet was around 400,000 as well Back in the true offshore days

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3xr-3gVEEw

On year the race in Grand Haven started here with 50 boats taking the green flag and ending with 15 finishing the course ( 3 boats sunk ) Rough water and test of man and machine is what got me into the sport

[JoeD30]

Hey guys- I'm Joe the owner of the Sonic
I popped over here to thank Rich and Charlie for putting together a great read about and awesome day!
I want to thank everyone for thier congradulations

[Flying Dutchman]

Congrats on your win Joe!

[Bobcat]

Congrats Joe, and welcome to SOS!

[Magic Medicine]

Hey guys- I'm Joe the owner of the Sonic
I popped over here to thank Rich and Charlie for putting together a great read about and awesome day!
I want to thank everyone for thier congradulations

Congrats sir:USA:

[T2x]

Congratulations! What a test of man and machine, of commitment, of desire, truly what the origins of Offshore racing were made of. Hats off to you little Sonic, and to Rich and Charlie for converting the realities (brutality) of the event into a wonderful read.
Steve U-1


FYI

This really means something, coming from one of the greatest true boat racers the sport has ever seen.

.... Thanks Buddy

P.S. Steve....Please come to OFF in Jupiter, FL on Oct 8th and 9th.....I know you will have a blast and I'd love to see you. Maybe we can even find a Mexican restaurant......;)

[jetcruzr]

Rich, Thanks for this incredible thread. Great Job!

Charlie, Thanks for the fantastic narration of your run, as well as your explanation and perspective of "true offshore racing". I could not agree with you more. After reading this thread, I am already excited to see what becomes of next year's race.

Congrats to Joe and the "Little Sonic" team for the win!

I hope to meet you guys some day.

Thanks again,

Tom

[Top Banana]

Well Said Charlie and Rich - !

That is exactly how I got started back in 1972 - a production hull - nothing fancy - many other faster boats - Running from Point Pleasant to Fire Island Inlet, back to Brooklyn, and south to Point Pleasant - many got lost, many broke - but our boat was navigated by a fisherman who knew the mud hole and more - the result after running by ourselves in rough water was a win - ! I always knew it was not the fastest boat that would win, it was the one that stayed together !

As for T2X - I knew to keep my mouth SHUT - when in the Helicopter - His ability to explain, and be interesting, and funny were the reasons NNRT was simply the best at the time !

All the best to you Charlie and Billy Frenz for this event - !

Phil

Thank you Phil.....you were one of the guys that made this sport, through your film coverage for all the world to see.

[Top Banana]

Congratulations! What a test of man and machine, of commitment, of desire, truly what the origins of Offshore racing were made of. Hats off to you little Sonic, and to Rich and Charlie for converting the realities (brutality) of the event into a wonderful read.
Steve U-1

Steve....Thank you , truly humbling coming from a great racer like your self. hope to see you at OFF in October.

[T2x]

And to bad these guys didnt show up saturday that would of really made things interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7vurWhdgFE

I tried my best to persuade them........Nothing has ever flown over the seas quite like the "Ghost".

[SteveDavid]

FYI



This really means something, coming from one of the greatest true boat racers the sport has ever seen.

.... Thanks Buddy

P.S. Steve....Please come to OFF in Jupiter, FL on Oct 8th and 9th.....I know you will have a blast and I'd love to see you. Maybe we can even find a Mexican restaurant......;)

Hey Rich, If I'm in town you're on, and it would have to be Mexican :)
You know what struck me about your reportage of the event, isn't so much who won or lost, it was the effort involved, the going against the odds and coming out the other side with a deep sense of having done something pretty cool in a boat. It isn't so much winning or losing, as having done it. I was reminded of the people in our past who did it for the challenge to themselves moreso than for a flag or check.
Steve

[Top Banana]

My wife and I are having dinner tonight with Dean Gibbs and his wife. Dean is the British team owner with the 52 foot Outerlimits that raced last weekend Around Long Island. We met for a short time today and he said that he already has texts and e-mails from other owners in Europe and the UK, that he feels they will be coming back next year with at least four teams, to get that trophy and bring it back to Europe.
.

The dinner was quite enlightening. The Brits are very serious about getting a real offshore world circuit going again. They were very impressed with Billy Frenz and his satellite beacons on each boat. They use a similar system but said this one was much better. They loved the location that Guy La Motta provided.

They loved the fact that this is so close to NYC and could be used by many potential sponsors, to really make an impact with their marketing promotions, and showcase their products to a major part of the US population and center of influence.

They in short would like to make this Don Aronow Memorial Around Long Island Race as one of their races on the world circuit. The others would be, Cowes - Torquay and the London to Monte Carlo. They are unearthing many of the old trophies they have over there and will be using them for victories in various classes.

And don't forget, they are putting on the Around Britain Race in 2011.

We of course, would not have many competitors who would travel the world like that, but at least we would know that we are competiting agsinst the very best that Europe has to offer when they race here in the States.

For our own circuit, we would want to limit it, to no more than four races spread over a year. The New York race, one in the Great Lakes, we already have an offer to help with that one. One in California....hopefully we can work with a group out there. And last but not least, Florida.

Any offshore racers out there that like this idea???

[T2x]

Hey Rich, If I'm in town you're on, and it would have to be Mexican :)
You know what struck me about your reportage of the event, isn't so much who won or lost, it was the effort involved, the going against the odds and coming out the other side with a deep sense of having done something pretty cool in a boat. It isn't so much winning or losing, as having done it. I was reminded of the people in our past who did it for the challenge to themselves moreso than for a flag or check.
Steve

Quite a few of them will be at OFF....

Odell Lewis, John Bakos, Dave Craig, Brownie, Ken Kitson, Steve Sirois, Jim Emerson, Tom Stickle, Bill Seebold, Bob Saccenti, Bobby Sheer, Jim Hunt,...........and all the South Florida boys you grew up with in Miami Marine Stadium.....

Besides if you're nice to me....maybe you could squeeze into this....

[Big Time]

Very exciting news Charlie.

[T2x]

As for T2X - I knew to keep my mouth SHUT - when in the Helicopter - His ability to explain, and be interesting, and funny were the reasons NNRT was simply the best at the time !
Phil

I remember those days too.......except the part about you keeping quiet....:D

[KMP]

Thanks for the write-ups Rich/Charlie!!! This is what racing is all about!

Kent

[BUIZILLA]

Miami-Key West

[JoeD30]

Congratulations! What a test of man and machine, of commitment, of desire, truly what the origins of Offshore racing were made of. Hats off to you little Sonic, and to Rich and Charlie for converting the realities (brutality) of the event into a wonderful read.
Steve U-1

Thank you Steve(and everyone else)...It has been four days now since the race, and great drivers like yourself have been congratulating me every day, much to my surprise.

I had no idea when I decided to begin prepping my boat for this event where it would end...I just knew beyond all else this was my Everest and I had to finish at all costs; well I finished, and it seems like I started (something) too. I'm sure all the talk of a real offshore series was on going before I came along but if my little boat ride helps fuel the fire then so be it. Lets get out the gasoline and get this thing going....Charlie and Rich you guys are great thanks again....I'll never forget Rich saying to me just after I got out of the boat, and explaining to him what I had for power and drives,"you did something historic" it's a feeling very few people will ever get to feel and I am privileged and honored to be a part of a select few who have accomplished this. PS - Charlie I made $2.00 today ;)

[Slandrew]

:rolleyes:Is this record holder?

[T2x]

:rolleyes:Is this record holder?

no......

The record was set 21 years ago.....the boat in your picture is about 7 years old..... Stu and Joey set the record in a 32 Skater classic with twin 600's.

[boatme]

For our own circuit, we would want to limit it, to no more than four races spread over a year. The New York race, one in the Great Lakes, we already have an offer to help with that one. One in California....hopefully we can work with a group out there. And last but not least, Florida.

Any offshore racers out there that like this idea???


Yep I am the guy to do the great lakes event. I would be honored to work with the legends on this. Charlie and I have talked about this a few times. I think it is something we could achieve

My wife and I have put on a couple of races here in the early 2000s and my partner Bob and I put on Smoke On The Water poker Run from 2001 to 2006 I attended the races run here in the eighties and have been a performance boater for over 30 years I think we are qualified to make the attempt it just becomes a matter of working in the logistics both physical and financial

We have been talking about two courses to run here. If logistics permit it would be great to run from Grand Haven Michigan to Milwaukee Wisconsin and back. (Real Offshore Michigan race) If not then we would run from Grand Haven down to South Haven Michigan Turn around and run to Muskegon Michigan then back to Grand Haven (old route ran in the 80s) This could become a great group of races that utilize guts, tenacity, talent, and a bit of insanity It could be called something like the
“Running rough in the Big Stuff Series” 

Race Catch Phrase “If you come wearing your skirt you are sure to get hurt” 
or “Big Seas are not for Wussies “

one last one “ Going in circles is for NASCAR” LOL 

Hope this can be made in to a real series and show the true metal of man and machine

Rich will Luhr us in, and Charlie will be the Top Banana :Let go racing Offshore style

[Top Banana]

Yep I am the guy to do the great lakes event. I would be honored to work with the legends on this. Charlie and I have talked about this a few times. I think it is something we could achieve

My wife and I have put on a couple of races here in the early 2000s and my partner Bob and I put on Smoke On The Water poker Run from 2001 to 2006 I attended the races run here in the eighties and have been a performance boater for over 30 years I think we are qualified to make the attempt it just becomes a matter of working in the logistics both physical and financial

We have been talking about two courses to run here. If logistics permit it would be great to run from Grand Haven Michigan to Milwaukee Wisconsin and back. (Real Offshore Michigan race) If not then we would run from Grand Haven down to South Haven Michigan Turn around and run to Muskegon Michigan then back to Grand Haven (old route ran in the 80s) This could become a great group of races that utilize guts, tenacity, talent, and a bit of insanity It could be called something like the
“Running rough in the Big Stuff Series” 

Race Catch Phrase “If you come wearing your skirt you are sure to get hurt” 
or “Big Seas are not for Wussies “

one last one “ Going in circles is for NASCAR” LOL 

Hope this can be made in to a real series and show the true metal of man and machine

Rich will Luhr us in, and Charlie will be the Top Banana :Let go racing Offshore style

Marc....Thank you very much. We have some momentum going here now. I have had a lot of e-mails from people who want to do the race next year. Many have said they could not afford to run a complete circuit, but would love to race if there was something like this real racing again in thier neighborhood.

HORBA is looking for courses at least 200 miles long with places for folks to stop along the way for refueling if needed. If we have enough that need refueling, we could make a separate class for them.

[SLOWOUTBOARD]

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE THE SONIC TO COMPLETE THE RACE?

[Top Banana]

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE THE SONIC TO COMPLETE THE RACE?

6 hrs 15 min

[boatme]

Charlie if we run to Milwaukee we will have to change your name from Top Banana to The Big Cheese LOL

[Top Banana]

Charlie if we run to Milwaukee we will have to change your name from Top Banana to The Big Cheese LOL

My wife and will leave our Harleys at the factory in Milwaukee, in case I break down and need a ride back.

[T2x]

HORBA is looking for courses at least 200 miles long with places for folks to stop along the way for refueling if needed. If we have enough that need refueling, we could make a separate class for them.

Charlie:

Let's not repeat the same mistakes that have bedeviled us for decades..... Adding separate classes has always diluted the overall competition model. I would simply make stopping for fuel optional...but it's the racer's responsibility as far as any time lost in the process.

Frankly, this needs to be as simple as possible..... Limit the classes to 5 or 6....internal combustion only.

Just my .02, we are starting with a clean sheet of paper. At least we should try to avoid the mistakes that put the sport in the backwaters it sits in today.

T2x

[Dunbar 104]

Were and when are the next races?

[BBB725]

How do you break up the classes, outboard/inboard, Vee/Cat, Stock/modified?

[Top Banana]

Charlie:

Let's not repeat the same mistakes that have bedeviled us for decades..... Adding separate classes has always diluted the overall competition model. I would simply make stopping for fuel optional...but it's the racer's responsibility as far as any time lost in the process.

Frankly, this needs to be as simple as possible..... Limit the classes to 5 or 6....internal combustion only.

Just my .02, we are starting with a clean sheet of paper. At least we should try to avoid the mistakes that put the sport in the backwaters it sits in today.

T2x

I agree 200% Maybe the best model we had over the years was the one Open class and three Production classes in total.

[T2x]

How do you break up the classes, outboard/inboard, Vee/Cat, Stock/modified?

250 mile offshore races are great equalizers....they pretty well rule out 1500 hp 110 octane supercharged motors designed for less than30 minutes of life at or near maximum RPM.......and cats and vees can compete heads up in big seas.......

Boat racing was most successful when the race organizers set the class rules and the competitors fit themselves into those limits. Today with the racers setting the class specs and the organizers adding classes to fit individual boats..we have somehow lost the majority of both race boats and racers.

When you are dealing with endurance racing in true ocean conditions with heavy fuel loads, life rafts, exhausting physical demands and more conservative engine specs, the circumstances create much more equalization.

I suggest broad class limits.....

3 or more gas or diesels up to 50 feet
Twin inboard gas or diesels up to 40'
outboards up to 32 feet
Single inboards up to 32 feet
and
Nostalgia boats over 35 years in age..........

and that's about it......................

I clearly remember when the Miami-NY race took place...there were unlimited rules and a wide variety of approaches, but each team had about the same chance to win by the time the start rolled around. In fact had the race taken place two days later there would have been a completely different outcome. For the record, three of the five teams never made it past Jacksonville, and they were very well funded.

The thing about this kind of racing is that it takes the kind of competitor who, if he fails to finish or comes in hours after the winner,fuels his resolve to do better the following year...not demand a new class.

T2x

[Slandrew]

250 mile offshore races are great equalizers....they pretty well rule out 1500 hp 110 octane supercharged motors designed for less than30 minutes of life at or near maximum RPM.......and cats and vees can compete heads up in big seas.......

Boat racing was most successful when the race organizers set the class rules and the competitors fit themselves into those limits. Today with the racers setting the class specs and the organizers adding classes to fit individual boats..we have somehow lost the majority of both race boats and racers.

When you are dealing with endurance racing in true ocean conditions with heavy fuel loads, life rafts, exhausting physical demands and more conservative engine specs, the circumstances create much more equalization.

I suggest broad class limits.....

3 or more gas or diesels up to 50 feet
Twin inboard gas or diesels up to 40'
outboards up to 32 feet
Single inboards up to 32 feet
and
Nostalgia boats over 35 years in age..........

and that's about it......................

I clearly remember when the Miami-NY race took place...there were unlimited rules and a wide variety of approaches, but each team had about the same chance to win by the time the start rolled around. In fact had the race taken place two days later there would have been a completely different outcome. For the record, three of the five teams never made it past Jacksonville, and they were very well funded.

The thing about this kind of racing is that it takes the kind of competitor who, if he fails to finish or comes in hours after the winner,fuels his resolve to do better the following year...not demand a new class.

T2xNot to pick your brains but was the Miami NY race record held by the Itialians in the Sony boat??:huh:

[nthdegree]

Were and when are the next races?

Tomorrow morning....

[Buoy]

250 mile offshore races are great equalizers....they pretty well rule out 1500 hp 110 octane supercharged motors designed for less than30 minutes of life at or near maximum RPM.......and cats and vees can compete heads up in big seas.......

Boat racing was most successful when the race organizers set the class rules and the competitors fit themselves into those limits. Today with the racers setting the class specs and the organizers adding classes to fit individual boats..we have somehow lost the majority of both race boats and racers.

When you are dealing with endurance racing in true ocean conditions with heavy fuel loads, life rafts, exhausting physical demands and more conservative engine specs, the circumstances create much more equalization.

I suggest broad class limits.....

3 or more gas or diesels up to 50 feet
Twin inboard gas or diesels up to 40'
outboards up to 32 feet
Single inboards up to 32 feet
and
Nostalgia boats over 35 years in age..........

and that's about it......................

I clearly remember when the Miami-NY race took place...there were unlimited rules and a wide variety of approaches, but each team had about the same chance to win by the time the start rolled around. In fact had the race taken place two days later there would have been a completely different outcome. For the record, three of the five teams never made it past Jacksonville, and they were very well funded.

The thing about this kind of racing is that it takes the kind of competitor who, if he fails to finish or comes in hours after the winner,fuels his resolve to do better the following year...not demand a new class.

T2x

Rich, I really like your thoughts on this subject. This type of racing would be of MUCH more interest to me.


Not to pick your brains but was the Miami NY race record held by the Itialians in the Sony boat??:huh:

I know at one point it was held by a 24 Pantera:D

[Top Banana]

The Miami to NY that Rich was talkng about was won by George Morales inhis 45 foot Cougar with triple engines. Sandy Satullo in a Tempest and Al Copeland in his big Superboat, Bobby Saccenti and Kramer in a big Apache (widebody)......I forget the last guy, sorry.....maybe Gentry???

[boatme]

Charlie and or Rich,

Grand Haven to Milwaukee and back is about 150 miles Straight across the big pond and back If Going Grand Haven to Chicago and Back the total is about 220 miles Your thoughts ??

[Top Banana]

Charlie and or Rich,

Grand Haven to Milwaukee and back is about 150 miles Straight across the big pond and back If Going Grand Haven to Chicago and Back the total is about 220 miles Your thoughts ??

Chicago....for a couple of reasons.....no disprespect to Milwaukee, but for Sponsors, the racers would probably find a better reception if we included Chicago. That is one of the reasons why the Brits like our New York race.....right up the East River...you can't beat that for exposure.

Second....longer distance is always better, gets us back to the days of the Bahamas 500 and the Long Beach to San Francisco races. We are only doing four of these a year, or one a year, if you are a local racer....this gives you more fun for the money.

Just my opinion.

[Brownie]

Morales won in 48' 4 engine Cougar Cat. Popeye 2nd in a 46' 3 engine Cougar Vee. Superb boats, average crews.........

[Slandrew]

Morales won in 48' 4 engine Cougar Cat. Popeye 2nd in a 46' 3 engine Cougar Vee. Superb boats, average crews.........

:rolleyes:Can't find pictures right now but did Sony boat attempt the maimi to NY run?

[Top Banana]

Morales won in 48' 4 engine Cougar Cat. Popeye 2nd in a 46' 3 engine Cougar Vee. Superb boats, average crews.........

As usual, the Master knew the right answer. I stand corrected sir !

[T2x]

Morales won in 48' 4 engine Cougar Cat. Popeye 2nd in a 46' 3 engine Cougar Vee. Superb boats, average crews.........

I agree with you on the boats...disagree on the crews.

T2x

[purrfection]

A few pictures of Al Copeland's boat.

[Underdog88]

Very inspirational read!

I was a motorcycle drag racer for 20 years and was always the Underdog (hence the name) until the final 3 years when I landed a factory ride. We then became the people we used to hate... but won 2 AMA National Championships those final years.

My worst years were also my best previously. When I got out of bracket racing and threw everything I had (and much of what I didn't and shouldn't) at running a Pro class on a bracket racers budget. I had a little help but...

Parking across from Team Muzzys Kawasaki Semi in my little 20 ft trailer was humbling to say the least. Changing my pieced together budget motors by myself between rounds, while watching their crew of many put in a brand new bullet every round. I usually took all 3 motors home in oily boxes... Later only two as I ran outa parts and money.

My record against them was 1-13. That one win meant more to me than the 2 AMA #1 National Plates combined with the Factory Yamaha ride.

Good on you Lil Sonic!!! I'm going out to the shop now and finish up my motors for the Lil Velocity!

Mark Underwood
Underdog Racing
Est. 1986

[T2x]

Charlie and or Rich,

Grand Haven to Milwaukee and back is about 150 miles Straight across the big pond and back If Going Grand Haven to Chicago and Back the total is about 220 miles Your thoughts ??

UMMMMM........ How does.........

Grand Haven to Chicago to Milwaukee to Grand Haven

sound?

2 big cities for the price of one and a total race distance of about 270 miles.

Heck...I raced (alone) from Milwaukee to Chicago and back in an 18 foot Eltro..... and Linder did it the previous year when the race was reversed (starting/ending in Chicago) in the same boat. 4 years earlier in 1964 we ran Chicago-New Buffalo in an even smaller boat and in 1981 I raced a Shadow Cat in really bad storm seas on the Chicago-Michigan City-Chicago course. Lake Michigan is a real test of man against nature.....

[BUIZILLA]

I, for one, am thrilled to see anything but beach racing being promoted :iagree:

[boatme]

[QUOTE=T2x;524099]UMMMMM........ How does.........

Grand Haven to Chicago to Milwaukee to Grand Haven

sound?

2 big cities for the price of one and a total race distance of about 270 miles.

QUOTE]

Rich

Logistics for saftey crew might be bit problematic but not a bad Idea

would 270 be to much in milage?? would it turn some prospective racers away or encourage more to come ?

[Slandrew]

[QUOTE=T2x;524099]UMMMMM........ How does.........

Grand Haven to Chicago to Milwaukee to Grand Haven

sound?

2 big cities for the price of one and a total race distance of about 270 miles.

QUOTE]

Rich

Logistics for saftey crew might be bit problematic but not a bad Idea

would 270 be to much in milage?? would it turn some prospective racers away or encourage more to come ?Lets say they average 60mph they should be faster than that but lets just say that whould be close to a 4 hour run:rolleyes:Fuel stops worst case 9 hours:puke:

[JoeD30]

Very inspirational read!

I was a motorcycle drag racer for 20 years and was always the Underdog (hence the name) until the final 3 years when I landed a factory ride. We then became the people we used to hate... but won 2 AMA National Championships those final years.

My worst years were also my best previously. When I got out of bracket racing and threw everything I had (and much of what I didn't and shouldn't) at running a Pro class on a bracket racers budget. I had a little help but...

Parking across from Team Muzzys Kawasaki Semi in my little 20 ft trailer was humbling to say the least. Changing my pieced together budget motors by myself between rounds, while watching their crew of many put in a brand new bullet every round. I usually took all 3 motors home in oily boxes... Later only two as I ran outa parts and money.

My record against them was 1-13. That one win meant more to me than the 2 AMA #1 National Plates combined with the Factory Yamaha ride.

Good on you Lil Sonic!!! I'm going out to the shop now and finish up my motors for the Lil Velocity!

Mark Underwood
Underdog Racing
Est. 1986

Thanks Mark, this is and will be one of the highlights of my life for sure...first offshore race first win:D

[Underdog88]

Thanks Mark, this is and will be one of the highlights of my life for sure...first offshore race first win:D

My first season drag racing... I never won a single round let alone a race.
He11 I was a fireman for 23 1/2 years before I finally got to save someone instead of all dead people!

Congrats for doing it! I'm trying to get there too...:cheers2:

[Top Banana]

[QUOTE=Underdog88;524229
Congrats for doing it! I'm trying to get there too...:cheers2:[/QUOTE]

Mark, we look forward to racing against you in the Don Aronow Memorial Around Long Island Marathon 2011, next year. You are exactly the type of competitor we are looking for. Thank you.

[T2x]

[QUOTE=T2x;524099]UMMMMM........ How does.........

Grand Haven to Chicago to Milwaukee to Grand Haven

sound?

2 big cities for the price of one and a total race distance of about 270 miles.

QUOTE]

Rich

Logistics for saftey crew might be bit problematic but not a bad Idea

would 270 be to much in milage?? would it turn some prospective racers away or encourage more to come ?

Around Long Island is only slightly shorter............ and much more challenging to navigate........... either way you will need a couple of large sweep boats bringing up the rear............and of course the GPS tracking system for all boats.

[Underdog88]

Mark, we look forward to racing against you in the Don Aronow Memorial Around Long Island Marathon 2011, next year. You are exactly the type of competitor we are looking for. Thank you.

You hooked me with the Miami to Bimini race in 08. That's on my bucket list!
Thank YOU!

[JoeD30]

My first season drag racing... I never won a single round let alone a race.
He11 I was a fireman for 23 1/2 years before I finally got to save someone instead of all dead people!

Congrats for doing it! I'm trying to get there too...:cheers2:

I was into drag racing too, raced my car, my wifes Grand Cherokee, my diesel truck, anything I could.....but once I bought the boat.....just no comparison.
Drag racing is great and I do miss it sometimes; but it just doesn't last long enough, try keeping that starting line intensity for 6 hrs!!!!!!!! That is the real deal. Hope to see you out there next year:cheers2:

[Smarty]

T2x,

I liked the report/story. Nicely written, good story, nice to see the underdog come out on top.

[Mike A.]

Rich,

Is that you wearing our old APBA Offshore staff jacket on the dock?!

[T2x]

Rich,

Is that you wearing our old APBA Offshore staff jacket on the dock?!

Yep...........

I qualify as "old APBA Offshore staff" don't I? :D

[Mike A.]

Yep...........

I qualify as "old APBA Offshore staff" don't I? :D

Old and obsolete...just like me.:party:

[Pop]

Me too!

[mdkeywest]

Me too!


Too bad !

The three of you could upright this sinking ship we call " offshore "

[Ratickle]

Too bad !

The three of you could upright this sinking ship we call " offshore "

I keep hinting and asking......:D

[T2x]

Too bad !

The three of you could upright this sinking ship we call " offshore "

I think the 3 of us would agree that we should let this ship sink.......and maybe build a new one.

[mdkeywest]

:cheers2: