Skater 30 / Ilmor Indy Upgrade

[NASCAT]

Skater & ILMOR have been working together closely on upgrading my boat to ILMOR's new Indy drive. The retrofit is the first for ILMOR as the other boats with Indy drives were sold as Gen 4 engine / drive packages. I have Gen3 engines which has required a team effort from all parties involved in order to see this retrofit project thru. Luckily both companies are located only a few hrs apart from one another. Ultimately it should pave the way for other ILMOR owners to upgrade to the Indy drive resulting in an even more reliable turnkey package.

The Skater is my 2nd ILMOR powered boat & they've been an excellent option for me. Over the past 5yrs I've received unmatched sales, service & support from the folks at ILMOR.

Skater has been working their magic as well. There were lots of options when it came to retrofitting the new drives but Peter & his staff aren't taking any shortcuts and there have been several instances where they have taken it upon themselves to go the extra mile which is the reputation Skater is known for.

While I've missed several of my favorite poker runs to date I consider it a small sacrifice in the big scheme of things. Allowing Skater & ILMOR the time they require to engineer the upfit will ultimately pay dividends in the end.

My goal being a well rounded turnkey, reliable, bulletproof package.

[Big Time]

That is a great set up you are going to have there when its all said and done!!

Just curios, are you expecting any gains (be it speed or handling) with the new drives?

[Bobcat]

That's pretty cool!

[NASCAT]

That is a great set up you are going to have there when its all said and done!!

Just curios, are you expecting any gains (be it speed or handling) with the new drives?

BT,

While I've ridden in #6 boats I have ZERO seat time so I'm not sure what to expect but here are some things to consider.

Peter doesn't think I gained more than 200lbs between the packages so overall weight will be up & CG will be slightly affected.

The Indy drives will be mounted 1" higher & there will be less drive in the water at speed since the prop is a surface type prop so that means less drag & my understanding less slip & better efficiency.

I'm now spinning a transmission but it's almost a direct drive so I lost the 18" of driveline I used to spin.

Lastly I hear the cleaver type props have more bite & a more hooked up feel so I'm hoping for good things overall.

Original owner saw 137mph w/ 5 blade 34 Herings. He sold those for a pair of 35's which I got w/ the boat but they were way too big. I've personally seen 135 w/ my 5 blade 33's.

Stay tuned!

[fantastixvoyage]

Looking great and they should perform quite well! I'll be putting in about 800hp and tossing around what drives to use as there are a bunch to handle that (Imco, wet or dry 6's, Konrad, etc). Let us all know how you make out :cheers2:

[fantastixvoyage]

Also did you suffer any drive breakage with your Imcos?

[NASCAT]

Also did you suffer any drive breakage with your Imcos?

My setup was hard on gears & while I never had a catastrophic failure I'd see the metal chips in the oil & new it was time to tear them down & have a loosee! Made it difficult to boat w/ any confidence especially considering the time effort & expense that goes into attending a poker run.

Lets face it they're based on the Merc Bravo XR & simply not well suited for all the unloading & loading they see on a high X cat. Not the drives fault but what real choices did the original owner have. NXT's were just coming out & no way they were going to allow it to be mated to an Ilmor, #6's would sink it & the new IMCO's hadn't been released it.

I strongly considered the IMCO SCX but the lower design that allows you to use the cleaver props isn't a good match for my but providing too much stern lift. The recommendation was new SCX uppers w/ my std IMCO 2" shorty lowers leaving the lowers w/ the small gears as the weak link. I know others w/ the IMCO SCX's who are having good success.

I had to wait for ILMOR to engineer the retrofit necessary to mate my GEN 3 engine to the drive. The Gen 4 is all drive by wire & communicates w/ the drive thru the ECM. My engines didn't have such options / software so an upgrade had to be developed. Once they told me it was available I jumped on it.

[RPM]

Very nice equipment! Will you be making it to Skaterfest at LOTO..Shoot-out weekend?

[NASCAT]

Not likely too far a tow for me based on available time off.

[Donskihp]

That looks like thats gonna be a sweet setup. Was there any transome glass work done?

[NASCAT]

That looks like thats gonna be a sweet setup. Was there any transome glass work done?

Indy Drive transom assy covers all the IMCO Ext box holes but Skater being first class filled them in & touched up just so there wouldn't be an exposed wood.

[NASCAT]

A few pics of the tedius work that goes into mocking up the engine & drive in order to get the proper driveline angle & alignment resulting in the fabbing up of new motor mounts

[NASCAT]

Motor Mount Fabrication

[Pete B]

as always Skater is TOP Notch, as always you will have a top notch ride!

[stainless]

as always Skater is TOP Notch, as always you will have a top notch ride!

+1!:cheers2:

[ILMORdude]

Wow! Serious mounting hardware. I cant wait to see this finished product. I love michigan companies......

[NASCAT]

This project is NOT for the faint hearted or "do it yourselfer" unless you are very organized, multi talented & can stomach seeing your perfectly good paint work & rigging spread out like a 1000pc puzzle.:huh:

Engine relocation affected header clearance which required new scoops. Bilges were touched up while the engines are out.

[NASCAT]

I believe I mentioned the fact that my application won't accomodate plug ins & is too tight for a driveline.

Skater custom assembled a flange/flange u-joint which is why engine-drive alignment is so critical.

Port drive is on for good & expect the remainder of the transom to be final assembled by mid week.

[NASCAT]

Todays progress!

I followed C-Sprays lead in matching my swim platform & trim tabs color to the Indy drives! Can't take any credit for that idea.

[Wahoo 214]

Very nice job.

[whatboat]

Wow, can't wait to she her !!!

[Wrinkleface]

Cool project!!:cheers2:

[NASCAT]

Wow, can't wait to she her !!!

You & me both!

[NASCAT]

Just got an update from Skater, Trevor Stacy that rigged this boat when it was originally built has been overseeing this project & said we're getting close to splashdown.

Everything will be bolted in for good mid next week and assuming the hatches get painted a sea trial could take place before the weeks out. Much like anything else it's the minute details that take the longest.

Remember that Ilmor's Gen4 725 / Indy drive package is an all electronic drive by wire package but my Gen3 710 engine is not. While Ilmor has written the necessary software to get the engine, trans & drive to communicate Trevor is working through getting my tab & drive indicators to work using potentiometers (like a smartcraft system uses) & servos to move the Stainless Marine sticks so that I don't have to reconfigure my dash to accomodate L.E.D. type indicators. which is what Ilmor recommends for their cable free package. The pic of the blue bezeled indicators is courtesy of C-Spray & shows the L.E.D. cable free technology. I have no probelm w/ the L.E.D. other than I have no space & it would require removing ALL my gauges, filling in holes, relocating gages & then putting a new piece of CF over everything only to have to redrill the entire dash (both sides).

Keeping my fingers crossed Trevors plan comes together.

[NASCAT]

Rigging final details prior to engine install.

[ILMORdude]

Lookin good man! Good pics and updates

[NASCAT]

One engine in & one to go!

[NASCAT]

Engines are in & will be fired up on the hose today!!!!

Ilmor on site at Skater tomorrow to update software & get the engines, trans & drives communicating w/ each other.

Basically the only remaining items are painting & installing hatches, wire up L.E.D. indicators & sea trial. Peter has rounded up 6-8 sets of props & from what I understand from Trevor & Paul is that their on water test sheet is very detailed documenting everything from conditions, to temps, rpm, drive & tab position, speed as well as using a stop watch to time on plane & roll on performance. Way beyond just putting around for 5 mins & checking for leaks. Props will be spun in to begin with since thats how they ran last but ultimately the best setup will be rotated outward as well.

Pics attached show my helm & console before, the sticks relocated to the center & where the indictaors will go. Speedo gets removed & replaces the compass above the radio.

[MANITIE]

They did a great job on her.....

[TxHawk]

Why did you change the indicators?

Looks killer!

[NASCAT]

Tx,

The new Ilmor engine drive pkg is drive by wire no cables for throttles or shifting. I have the older gen 3 engines but the new drive sends it's trim signal electronically. I didn't want heads up cable tabs w/ seperate L.E.D. drive indicators so ILMOR & Livorsi have worked on an all L.E.D. system. To be honest as much as I like the visibility of the heads up indicators the accuracy / repeatability wasn't there in fact it was dangerous not knowing exactly where the tabs were.

[NASCAT]

Ilmor visited Skater yesterday for the initial start up & ECM reprogramming. Both engines lit off first time & drivelines spun flawlessly. Anticipated splashdown is Monday 8/23 for 2 days of prop testing.

Hatches are done just working thru the L.E.D. drive & tab indicator setup

I plan to be at Skater next Friday 8/27, get a little seat time myself & then tow her home.

More pics & test results to follow...............

[NASCAT]

Trevor Stacy of Skater designed, fabbed & installed these potentiometer type indicator sensors himself. They will power the L.E.D. display at the helm. The drives will use the same L.E.D. display but the sensors have been incorporated into the trim mechanism by ILMOR.

I'm very much looking forward to a cable free setup that incorporates both accuracy & consistency!

Trevor & Paul are quite the experienced & detail oriented riggers. I've been impressed w/ their work & look forward to seeing it all in person.

[NASCAT]

Sorry the pics have been a little out of order today but I take what I can get since I didn't have any up until I started this thread!

Speedo relocated & Indicators installed!

Tabs had to be trimmed (no pun intended) for steering clearance.

[Ratickle]

If you really hurry, the Shootout isn't until Saturday......:sifone:

[NASCAT]

While everyone knows what role Peter Hledin plays behind the Douglas Marine / Skater product I wanted to give credit to 2 others who have played a major role in my outdrive upfit.

They are Trevor Stacy (yellow tee) who has been w/ Skater for 8 yrs & Paul Wingard (wht tee) who has been w/ Skater for 16 yrs.

I've been really impressed w/ their communication, attention to detail and ingenuity!

Indicators are complete! Plan is to weigh the boat in the morning & be on the water by 9am!

Details to follow!

[whatboat]

Wow

[ApachePete]

Fogged in this morning

[ApachePete]

Just saw it on US 31 in Douglas, heading north.

Don't know where they launch.

Very good looking boat.

[NASCAT]

Quick, call the border patrol, don't let him cross into Canada!:driving:

[FastDonzi]

Tx,

The new Ilmor engine drive pkg is drive by wire no cables for throttles or shifting. I have the older gen 3 engines but the new drive sends it's trim signal electronically. I didn't want heads up cable tabs w/ seperate L.E.D. drive indicators so ILMOR & Livorsi have worked on an all L.E.D. system. To be honest as much as I like the visibility of the heads up indicators the accuracy / repeatability wasn't there in fact it was dangerous not knowing exactly where the tabs were.


Did you have Stainless Marines "No Slack" Cables on your heads up indicators??? They are extremly accurate & Repeatable since the spring is always pulling the slack out of the cable. Now if you had just regular Morse Cables then "Yes" It's Dangerous since the Tabs or Drives could move 2" before the 1/4" Slack is consumed in the cable housing and starts to show in the display, the No Slacks take care of that. I do like your DBW's though, very clean....

PS. Can you walk over to Dale Jrs shop and poke him with a Hot Coat Hanger or something and tell him to get up on the wheel:driving: (maybe move his seat closer and don't let him know :) )

[NASCAT]

FD,

I don't believe I did have the no slack ones which may have been the ticket but since the drive sends an electronic indicator signal it made sense to convert the tabs to the same system w/ 1 display.

I'm not sure I can acknowledge those remarks on grounds it may adversley affect my future employment. I don't work in that shop but know many of the team members including the crew chief. There are many talented individuals next door so I don't know what to tell you. 2010 has been a different season for us all.

[FastDonzi]

I Understand ;).. Beautiful Job on your boat. The 30's are my Favorite. you should have a real good running reliable rig. Don't be affraid to crack that Bishh open regularly :) ..

[whatboat]

I really hope I am in the neighborhood when she comes home !!!

The attention to detail is amazing !

[NASCAT]

Trevor splashed the Skater yesterday w/ a pair of Hering 5 blade 16.5 x 35's & it ran 126 heavy on the chips out on Lake Michigan 1/2 tank w/ 3 on board in 2' chop.

This was to be expected based on the fact that we elected to go w/ 1.50 drives for acceleration & drivability over WOT Top End which I might tap into 3-5 times a year for a total run time of 5-7 mins. The other Ilmor Indy Cats all have 1.39 drives.

Today he tested a set of 37's which broke 130 but still on the chip. Lake Michigan was a little angry today w/ 4-6 footers so no speed runs were attempted there. The local lake had better conditions but is small, they run out of room quickly & the water patrol frowns upon the loud fast boats so testing has to be short & sweet.

Peter is off to LOTO tomorrow but hopes to get a pair of 39's & 40's for testing first of the week. I'm postponing p/u the boat up this weekend in light of the opportunity to get some more test & tune time.

Trevor is going to add a 1/2" spacer & run the 37's again tomorrow to see if he can't reduce the slip some which is currently in the 10% range.

As for the project overall he said the boat gets on plane w/ ease, it's very sensitive & responsive to trim changes, runs great & there's not been one leak or mechanical issue. He said it feels like a totally different boat, hooked up & on rails. The custom fabricated L.E.D. indicators are working like a charm as well from both an accuracy & repeatability standpoint.

To Be Cont'd.......................

[FastDonzi]

Great, I like it when people (Riggers) take the time to go over and complete every task before testing. I used to build AND test boats and nothing bugged me more than being out on the water in a new boat and have to spend part of the day correcting what the riggers should have completed on their shift. I know & expect some issues, but more than once I tested a boat where the steering was backwards :boxing_smiley: You did good with those guys, they are the pros (as is Pete & Chris). 1st class all the way:cheers2:

[NASCAT]

Great, I like it when people (Riggers) take the time to go over and complete every task before testing. I used to build AND test boats and nothing bugged me more than being out on the water in a new boat and have to spend part of the day correcting what the riggers should have completed on their shift. I know & expect some issues, but more than once I tested a boat where the steering was backwards :boxing_smiley: You did good with those guys, they are the pros (as is Pete & Chris). 1st class all the way:cheers2:

In this case Trevor & Paul preformed the drive retrofit & they are the ones testing the boat as well. Who better to judge their work than themselves?? Based on the 2 days of testing it appears they have the honor of holding their heads high.

[ILMORdude]

Its gotta have awesome acceleration with 1.50's

[NASCAT]

Yeah so awesome it's making it hard to test b/c they run out of room, LOL! Hopefully Lake Michigan conditions are better today, thats where they really need to run in order to be able to stretcg her legs long enough to trim up & down while it's on the wood to see if they gain anything etc, etc. On the local lake they are reaching top speed & having to turn or roll out of it almost immediately which isn't allowing them to see what she really likes & or doesn't.

Today is another day. I waited this long no sense rushing it now!

[Magic Medicine]

Yeah so awesome it's making it hard to test b/c they run out of room, LOL! Hopefully Lake Michigan conditions are better today, thats where they really need to run in order to be able to stretcg her legs long enough to trim up & down while it's on the wood to see if they gain anything etc, etc. On the local lake they are reaching top speed & having to turn or roll out of it almost immediately which isn't allowing them to see what she really likes & or doesn't.

Today is another day. I waited this long no sense rushing it now!

We are going through a cold spell up here right now. I am imagine the lake is going to be snotty out there again today. Winds are supposed to change back out of the south Friday and be nice all weekend, so good water conditions will be just around the corner.

[ApachePete]

Dead calm today.

What local lake are they running on?

[NASCAT]

I'm not sure, Trevor normally calls me EOD. He said he was going to shoot me a link for a streaming video so we'll se. The small lake they test on can be seen from the main drag in the town of Douglas. I saw it while eating lunch there one time. Not alot of straightaway room & ends up having to put wheel in it before it really winds up then ultimately they are out of room.

[NASCAT]

The plan is to hit Lake Michigan at 2pm today. Trevor puts in at Mackatawa (sp?) which dumps into the big lake! I guess those of you that are close by may be able to check it out.

[ApachePete]

I'm not sure, Trevor normally calls me EOD. He said he was going to shoot me a link for a streaming video so we'll se. The small lake they test on can be seen from the main drag in the town of Douglas. I saw it while eating lunch there one time. Not alot of straightaway room & ends up having to put wheel in it before it really winds up then ultimately they are out of room.

I don't think so. He'd be lucky to hit 50. Way too small

More likely is Lake Mackatawa in Holland, 10 miles north.

[Bobcat]

Outstanding service and products, way cool thread!:hurray:

[NASCAT]

I don't think so. He'd be lucky to hit 50. Way too small

More likely is Lake Mackatawa in Holland, 10 miles north.

I think you are right now that you mentioned it!

[NASCAT]

Heres a link to a live stream video from prop testing earlier today. 12 min vid not the best quality but for me it was like I was there. I originally posted the link in a new thread this afternoon right as they begun. I personally couldn't access it live but can view it now. Reception in that neck of the woods is somewhat sketchy!

5 blade 37's w/ 1/2 drive spacers= noticebaly slower acceleration, feels very hooked up, same top speed, with room to spare but ran out of real estate. Guesstimate was there may have been 3-5 mph left. Same props yesterday w/o spacers pegged the limiter w/ a half mi or so to spare.

Enjoy!
http://qik.com/doscorn

[NASCAT]

Unfortunately no test time took place today, poor conditions so we elected to wait until first of the week.

I did receive a blank copy of the Sea Trial Test Sheet. Once my boat has been dialed in w/ the correct props I'll post another copy that has been filled out by Trevor & Paul. I wrote in anywhere it was difficult to read.

[NASCAT]

Have a fellow boater out at LOTO trying to negotiate the use of these in order to complete the test & tune.

[NASCAT]

Loto had put a wrench in our prop testing the past several days but nevertheless Trevor ran the boat again today w/ the 16.5 x 35's & 37's w/ the 1/2" spacer just to confirm the boat does not want the spacer. This eliminates one factor & will allow him to focus on running the next set of props

Herings Jeff Johnston has saved the day by rounding up a set of 16.5 x 39's 18deg SCL 5-blades which he's FedEx'd to Skater for Wed delivery. In the interim Skater will remove the 1/2" spacers. Once the 39's arrive Trevor & Paul plan to put the boat thru the paces. With any luck back to backing the 37's & 39's will determine whether the boat can handle the 39's or wants 38's. It's unlikely it will be able to spin 40's. Even if the 39's touch the limiters they will be doing so w/ 2 on board & half full of fuel. At an event I normally have 4 on board & start close to full.

If time allows custom 1/4" spacers maybe fitted & tested as well as spinning the props out.

Still plan to weigh the boat prior to departure inorder to compare the bravo to the Indy pkg.

I'm headed to Skater 1st thing Thurs AM w/ the hopes of being back in time to boat here the entire labor day weekend. If there is anything worth sharing tomorrow I certainly will otherwise more following my roundtrip voyage to Skater. I'm anxious to see whether or not I'm able to match or exceed Skaters performance #'s since water conditions here never upset my boat nor will I run out of lake.

[NASCAT]

Made the roundtrip to Skater Thurs & Fri. Boat looked great, Trevor & Paul did a nice job w/ the rigging throughout.

I attached the sea trial log that was completed by Skater. Back to back testing was difficult due to weather, water conditions and the fact that often they were forced to test at the local lake which is small so they run out of room. I think they got it close now the rest is up to me.

Upon my return to Charlotte I splashed her locally & ran 128 on the boxes w/ the same 37's & 132 w/ the same 39's 100-150 rpm shy of the limiter. The speed differential was 4mph between the 2 sets of props just like Trevor saw but he achieved 2 mph more w/ each setup as well as had a co-pilot. My guess is Trevor's vast seat time behind the wheels of many Skaters allows him to jump right in & go whereas I figured I might ought to sneak up on it first time out. To be honest I had no clue what to expect since I'd never piloted a #6 style prop boat before & most of my rides were in Vee hulls.

The 37's have wicked rollon acceleration, the 39's about what I had before. Both got on plane w/ ease. I didn't really mess w/ the trim & tab once on plane since I was still getting comfortable w/ the new feel. Still has a hop possibly more than before but I didn't try to adjust it out, more so drove thru it since I was making top speed passes. Boat pretty much takes a set at 100mph then it's on rails. Props broke free a time or two in the slop but when they bite again they instantly propel the boat forward unlike the round ear props that just sort of bogged down once they were loaded. Boat was very responsive to trim as I trimmed the drives out to level. I really like the L.E.D. indicator display, they're very easy to read.

The trannies & drives are sweet, they shift like butter & overall low speed manuverability is excellent. Now I see how the guys w/ the 40' + boats manuever w/ confidence in tight docking situations. Currently throwing a dual rooster tail since the props are spinning out. It appears that the new package has added approx 250lbs to my overall boat weight.

Hope to get out again this weekend w/ a co-pilot where we can make several passes documenting speed, rpm & trim etc. Trevor has it dialed in close I just need to get some more seat time experimenting to see what it likes best so I can commit to a set of props. My guess is I'll end up w/ about the same Top Speed as I had before w/ the bravo setup (135mph) but much better useable acceleration.

[NASCAT]

A few pics of the p/u at Skater, the return to Chlt & initial splashdown. Hope to get a few running shots this weekend.

[FastDonzi]

Thats Great Michael, That setup should really make some fun uneventful performance boating (Three words that usually Don't go together :) ) That should last season after season, Enjoy:party:

[Batgirl]

Micheal,
Wow, thanks for sharing this. Great pics and details. The boat looks great. I think you will really enjoy the new set-up without any problems. Are you taking her out this weekend? I will keep my eyes and and ears open if you go by my house. Now's a good time, its seems the Lake is a lot less crowded after Labor Day and if you get out early you can have it to yourself. Good luck and I am looking forward to seeing the new set up. I always have like that boat.:drool5:
BG XO

[NASCAT]

Thanks BG, I'm very pleased w/ the reliability I've gained w/ this package. With a little dialing in I think I'll have an awesome package.

I'm sure I'll be out & about at some point this weekend. More than likely Sunday.

[Batgirl]

I have a wedding to go to on Sat, but I will look for you on Sunday. I live up on the Vinny's end of the Lake. Do you plan on doing the KW Run?

[NASCAT]

I was up there all afternoon Sat docked at a buddies house. He lives dead ahead as you come that way before you make the turn right towards the bridge. Large green roof over his boat slip.

If I get her dialed in & can assemble a crew yes I'd like to make KW.

[Batgirl]

There is plenty of time to dial her in, and I don't think assembling a crew for Key West will be a problem...

[Bobcat]

Bring it to KW, I just want to hear those Ilmors run.:drool5:

[NASCAT]

Having the opportunity to run the boat w/ Ben Robertson was an invaluable learning experience & I appreciate him making the 3hr trek to Charlotte to share his expertise as well as lend a helping hand.

We went thru 4 sets of props, added ballast but didn't end up installing the spacers. After seeing the boat in person & taking some measurements Ben agreed that we didn't want to go down & if at all possible maybe even up. At the moment that option isn't possible.

The Hering 16.5 x 37's 18deg 5blade SCL props ran best. They accelerate hard & topped out at 130mph 2 on board 1/2 full of fuel. The 39 SCL's will give me 4 or 5mph on top but they don't accelerate anywhere near as well as the 37's. I could split the difference w/ a set of 38 SCL's but my boat really likes the set of 37's I have & much like a set of race tires some sets perform different than others even though they are all the same.

I'd like to thank Ben & Jeff at Hering Propellers for their customer support throughout the test & tune process. They have been very supportive accommodating all of Skaters & my testing needs requests. I couldn't ask for any better service from Hering.

In summary I see my current set up as having gained reliability, docking maneuverability & awesome acceleration at the expense of 5 mph & maybe a little fuel efficiency over my previous setup. Reliability was my #1 goal & the assumption was I'd lose a few mph spinning a trans, larger drive & props. Depending on ones personal preference one could opt to give up on the acceleration side maintaining or possibly increasing their current top speed. Thats pretty impressive & says alot for the efficiency of the overall Indy package given the fact that there's substancially more rotating weight to spin w/ the exact same HP.