Why all this negativity ??

[2TR]

:willy_nilly:

When people started racing boats seriously back in the 60’s it was a fun small sport back than. Very small, but incredibly fun or so I have been told. There were no out of the box race boats if you wanted to be part of the sport you had to work at it than build it. Than Don came along and you could buy a boat from the factory race ready and every guy living on a canal became a weekend racer. And the “old school” racers were cool with that because they saw it as confirmation of how great the sport was and how great it had become.

Offshore grew exponentially in the 70’s. To the point were it was much bigger than it is now, but because it was such a new sport everybody felt like they were on the ground floor of a great new thing. They would not complain about the way things were simply because they did not know any better. Than when it lost its fad status and settled down, the changes started coming. Some good and some bad, the powers that be became fixated on popularity and the who’s who in the pits.

Now too much popularity may not ruin a sport, but it changes it for the worse most the time. A sports founding traditions, history, customs, values and beliefs go out the window and will be quickly forgotten as new people flood in. People will dilute the purity of the goal, abuse the value system, alter the mindset, and weaken the resolve of the founders and then move on to wreck havoc on the next fad they find. It doesn’t matter to the new guys whether the sport they jumped into and eventually changed with their non-core values maintains it’s purity, because they are just passengers on the bus that stopped at an Offshore Race and will pick them up and take them to the next “hot” spot after this. We have very few people left in this sport who remember were it came from (much like me) with new teams and people entering and existing the sport every 3 to 4 years with each adding a little to the stew or taking something away.

Now look what we have today, Forget about the minor squabbling we see and look at the full on name calling, back stabbing and fighting online for everyone to see. I watched what appeared to be a great class grow and than start to tear it selves apart right in front of me in a matter of months. Why? It seems like this sport has developed the lobster effect; simply put one lobster will never let another lobster get free from the pot. This unfortunately seems to be the norm. Modern offshore racers don’t usually like to see other succeed were they have failed. If one tries to do something positive, another instantly starts looking for ways that it will not succeed. Instead of giving hypothetical reasons while something will fail, why not encourage someone efforts or work together for a positive result? Teams need to realize what might be good for the sport might not be good for them and try and remember the sport is bigger than anyone, no one is bigger than the sport.


I for one I’m tired of all the negativity.

:iamwithstupid:

[mdkeywest]

That was a nice way to squeeze 1200 posts into one .
I for one a gree with you .
I,ve played good and bad guy over the years .

I sincerely believe the SVL guys hold the "positive " future in their hands .
This weekend the ones who makes things happen in that class are meeting up to deal with it in person .

They,ll do it .

[DAREDEVIL]

:iagree:

[Top Banana]

In September of this year, we are having a resurrection of an old school race.......the Don Aronow Memorial Around Long Island Marathon.

There are no special classes to build up points for a "World Championship" at the end of the year. If you have a boat, bring it...if it passes the safety inspection....you run it.

You can have something to tell your grandkids about. While others talked and complained, you raced....not up and down a beach, but a real open ocean race where you had to navigate and use common sense and racecraft.

If you don't have enough fuel capacity, it is 250 plus miles all the way around one big island, plan ahead and figure out where to stop and refuel along the way....you won't be the only one.

The same race course that Aronow and Wishnick and Wynn and Brownie and well hell, just about anyone who had a boat. One year a guy won it in a 17 foot outboard. This is the old school of racing and attendance is about to be taken.....are you going to be present or a no show?

[Wil Ros]

Very well said !!!!!


Wil

[stevequick]

:willy_nilly:

When people started racing boats seriously back in the 60’s it was a fun small sport back than. Very small, but incredibly fun or so I have been told. There were no out of the box race boats if you wanted to be part of the sport you had to work at it than build it. Than Don came along and you could buy a boat from the factory race ready and every guy living on a canal became a weekend racer. And the “old school” racers were cool with that because they saw it as confirmation of how great the sport was and how great it had become.

Offshore grew exponentially in the 70’s. To the point were it was much bigger than it is now, but because it was such a new sport everybody felt like they were on the ground floor of a great new thing. They would not complain about the way things were simply because they did not know any better. Than when it lost its fad status and settled down, the changes started coming. Some good and some bad, the powers that be became fixated on popularity and the who’s who in the pits.

Now too much popularity may not ruin a sport, but it changes it for the worse most the time. A sports founding traditions, history, customs, values and beliefs go out the window and will be quickly forgotten as new people flood in. People will dilute the purity of the goal, abuse the value system, alter the mindset, and weaken the resolve of the founders and then move on to wreck havoc on the next fad they find. It doesn’t matter to the new guys whether the sport they jumped into and eventually changed with their non-core values maintains it’s purity, because they are just passengers on the bus that stopped at an Offshore Race and will pick them up and take them to the next “hot” spot after this. We have very few people left in this sport who remember were it came from (much like me) with new teams and people entering and existing the sport every 3 to 4 years with each adding a little to the stew or taking something away.

Now look what we have today, Forget about the minor squabbling we see and look at the full on name calling, back stabbing and fighting online for everyone to see. I watched what appeared to be a great class grow and than start to tear it selves apart right in front of me in a matter of months. Why? It seems like this sport has developed the lobster effect; simply put one lobster will never let another lobster get free from the pot. This unfortunately seems to be the norm. Modern offshore racers don’t usually like to see other succeed were they have failed. If one tries to do something positive, another instantly starts looking for ways that it will not succeed. Instead of giving hypothetical reasons while something will fail, why not encourage someone efforts or work together for a positive result? Teams need to realize what might be good for the sport might not be good for them and try and remember the sport is bigger than anyone, no one is bigger than the sport.


I for one I’m tired of all the negativity.

:iamwithstupid:

Exceptionally well said. I'm sure some of the more famous doom and gloom people will chime in on your post. They even hate the idea of accurate prespective and will no doubt show you the errors in your thinking.
F*#k them, nice job.
SQ

[Sean Stinson]

I will keep them all in check when I get back from my vacation!!!

[Mike A.]

I will keep them all in check when I get back from my vacation!!!

No rational person can disagree with 2TR's sentiment. Back stabbing, name calling, advancing personal agendas at the expense of the sport and other competitors, and negativity have been rampant in offshore racing for decades. This is not a new phenomenon.

I grew up around the sport in the 1970's. My dad was a national Production class champion and competed in Open class too. He also served on the ORC and was the category attorney for a time as well. I went everywhere with him including meetings attended by the heavyweights of the era, Nordskog, Satullo, Cook, et al. and saw the politics from the inside.

As many of you know, I also raced offshore in the 90's, and then served as Gene Whipp's counsel and then a member of the ORC. From 1999 through 2003 I served as Chairman of the category, so I was on the front line of the political battles, backstabbing, personal agendas and negativity during that period as well.

Indeed, as many of you also know, I was the subject of many relentless personal attacks both on the Internet and behind the scenes. Eventually, the environment got so poisonous we realized we could never make a profit and had to call it quits. Plenty of blame to go around so I am not going to rehash that again.

But, I also think it is fair to say that the sport overall has not improved since then and arguably has been diminshed in many ways. With all due respect to SBI, were it not for Smitty and OPA the sport may very well be dead.

In the Internet age, whether we like it or not, unfiltered discourse is reality and not just here but everywhere: political blogs, partisan websites, sports blogs, motorsports chat sites, etc. And like in life, most of the people throwing stones are well-intentioned and feel justified in doing so because the other side started it or whatever. In other words, perspective matters. Which brings me to the recent SVL debate.

Again, there was plenty of name calling and personal attacks on all sides. From my perspective, I got involved for several reasons. First, I was deeply involved in the original development of the SVL class. Second, I had been asked to help advise with the 2010 SVL season. Third, when the new Fountain was sprung on everyone with less than a week before the first race of what was supposed to be a new era for the class, I was asked for my advice and perspective. And when you go to my original post, I made a flat, blunt statement that allowing the boat into the class, unfettered and unknown, would be a huge mistake and death knell to the class. Nothing personal, no name calling or backstabbing. Rather, my comments were out in the open. It devolved from there for a variety of reasons. Again, no reason to lay blame or point fingers. Everyone has their own perspective.

But the fourth and most important reason I weighed in was that I had seen this movie before. Class killer comes in, personal agendas spanning the gammut take hold, old boats are instantly obsoleted, owners leave the sport, and classes die with no controls in place to manage and maintain competitive balance. I was told to shut up by some and asked to keep hammering away by others. I sided with those who agreed with me but my message stayed the same throughout: Do not let this happen. Nip it in the bud before it is too late. Write a set of rules and lock them in place. Why? Simple. I did not want to see history repeat itself.

The future of the class is now in the hands of those who matter most: the SVL team owners. I have offered up the 2003 SVL rules to the class and will gladly post those for everyone else to see. Grandfather all the old boats. Allow new boats in subject to strict homologation and pre-approval rules. Go to the sanctioning bodies and secure written agreements that they will allow the class subject to the owners' rules and enforcement, and above all else, control your own destiny as owners. Do not let the ABC's dictate your future. Beware of those bearing gifts and if you are inclined to accept those gifts, fine, just do not relinquish control and take the gifts on YOUR terms because at the end of the day, the class and its future belongs to you - exclusively.

[shifter]

Good post 2TR.

pat W

[RACESDAD]

i agree with you and Mike A. It is a few who ruin a class, and many have tried to fix it. thanks to all who tried to fix it.
GO AND WIN ONE FOR THE GOOD GUYS
Mike

[Sean Stinson]

No rational person can disagree with 2TR's sentiment. Back stabbing, name calling, advancing personal agendas at the expense of the sport and other competitors, and negativity have been rampant in offshore racing for decades. This is not a new phenomenon.

I grew up around the sport in the 1970's. My dad was a national Production class champion and competed in Open class too. He also served on the ORC and was the category attorney for a time as well. I went everywhere with him including meetings attended by the heavyweights of the era, Nordskog, Satullo, Cook, et al. and saw the politics from the inside.

As many of you know, I also raced offshore in the 90's, and then served as Gene Whipp's counsel and then a member of the ORC. From 1999 through 2003 I served as Chairman of the category, so I was on the front line of the political battles, backstabbing, personal agendas and negativity during that period as well.

Indeed, as many of you also know, I was the subject of many relentless personal attacks both on the Internet and behind the scenes. Eventually, the environment got so poisonous we realized we could never make a profit and had to call it quits. Plenty of blame to go around so I am not going to rehash that again.

But, I also think it is fair to say that the sport overall has not improved since then and arguably has been diminshed in many ways. With all due respect to SBI, were it not for Smitty and OPA the sport may very well be dead.

In the Internet age, whether we like it or not, unfiltered discourse is reality and not just here but everywhere: political blogs, partisan websites, sports blogs, motorsports chat sites, etc. And like in life, most of the people throwing stones are well-intentioned and feel justified in doing so because the other side started it or whatever. In other words, perspective matters. Which brings me to the recent SVL debate.

Again, there was plenty of name calling and personal attacks on all sides. From my perspective, I got involved for several reasons. First, I was deeply involved in the original development of the SVL class. Second, I had been asked to help advise with the 2010 SVL season. Third, when the new Fountain was sprung on everyone with less than a week before the first race of what was supposed to be a new era for the class, I was asked for my advice and perspective. And when you go to my original post, I made a flat, blunt statement that allowing the boat into the class, unfettered and unknown, would be a huge mistake and death knell to the class. Nothing personal, no name calling or backstabbing. Rather, my comments were out in the open. It devolved from there for a variety of reasons. Again, no reason to lay blame or point fingers. Everyone has their own perspective.

But the fourth and most important reason I weighed in was that I had seen this movie before. Class killer comes in, personal agendas spanning the gammut take hold, old boats are instantly obsoleted, owners leave the sport, and classes die with no controls in place to manage and maintain competitive balance. I was told to shut up by some and asked to keep hammering away by others. I sided with those who agreed with me but my message stayed the same throughout: Do not let this happen. Nip it in the bud before it is too late. Write a set of rules and lock them in place. Why? Simple. I did not want to see history repeat itself.

The future of the class is now in the hands of those who matter most: the SVL team owners. I have offered up the 2003 SVL rules to the class and will gladly post those for everyone else to see. Grandfather all the old boats. Allow new boats in subject to strict homologation and pre-approval rules. Go to the sanctioning bodies and secure written agreements that they will allow the class subject to the owners' rules and enforcement, and above all else, control your own destiny as owners. Do not let the ABC's dictate your future. Beware of those bearing gifts and if you are inclined to accept those gifts, fine, just do not relinquish control and take the gifts on YOUR terms because at the end of the day, the class and its future belongs to you - exclusively.

Mike I am not questioning his post whatsoever.....remember I have been around for a few days myself bro.....I have seen the highs and the lows....right now WE have an opportunity to create something that is UNIFYING part of our beloved sport....SO instead of all the BULL$HIT why can't everyone be positive and build it from here??????? I mean really....WTF

[Mike A.]

Mike I am not questioning his post whatsoever.....remember I have been around for a few days myself bro.....I have seen the highs and the lows....right now WE have an opportunity to create something that is UNIFYING part of our beloved sport....SO instead of all the BULL$HIT why can't everyone be positive and build it from here??????? I mean really....WTF

Sean,

My post was not directed to you at all. Just seemed to make more sense to save space by copying yours rather than 2TR's.

I have said my piece on the SVL issue.

OPA and Brad put on a great event this weekend and I had such a good time, seeing and talking to a lot of old friends. And the boat ride to and from Bimini was a blast.

Good luck to everyone!

[Sean Stinson]

Sean,

My post was not directed to you at all. Just seemed to make more sense to save space by copying yours rather than 2TR's.

I have said my piece on the SVL issue.

OPA and Brad put on a great event this weekend and I had such a good time, seeing and talking to a lot of old friends. And the boat ride to and from Bimini was a blast.

Good luck to everyone!

Point noted....sorry I missed you there!!!!

[Mike A.]

Point noted....sorry I missed you there!!!!

I am sure we will see each other this year. I got the bug!

[XtremeRacing]

Mike ,
U should build a new Fountain, sure Reggie will give u a good deal.

[Ratickle]

Sean,

My post was not directed to you at all. Just seemed to make more sense to save space by copying yours rather than 2TR's.

I have said my piece on the SVL issue.

OPA and Brad put on a great event this weekend and I had such a good time, seeing and talking to a lot of old friends. And the boat ride to and from Bimini was a blast.

Good luck to everyone!

And nice meeting you.

Didn't get a chance to talk after the run, maybe another time.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

We all have something in common. We are all here because we love boating.. Lets focus on the good points.

[Ratickle]

Extremely well said Rick.

Too bad you live across the state, I know where there is a 28 Batboat for sale. Everything except bolt in a BigBlock.....:sifone:

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I had such a good time, seeing and talking to a lot of old friends. And the boat ride to and from Bimini was a blast.



That's the part of the races I enjoy the most.

Yes, the Bimini run should be on everyone's to do list.

[Mike A.]

And nice meeting you.

Didn't get a chance to talk after the run, maybe another time.

Nice meeting you too. We had a blast. Cannot wait to get in the boat again.:driving:

[Mike A.]

Mike ,
U should build a new Fountain, sure Reggie will give u a good deal.

Ya think? I ain't so sure but you never know. I may just have to call him. The boat is a freakin' rocket ship. Looked like a Super V running on Sunday. Very impressive.

[2TR]

:beatdeadhorse5:

[mdkeywest]

:willy_nilly:

When people started racing boats seriously back in the 60’s it was a fun small sport back than. Very small, but incredibly fun or so I have been told. There were no out of the box race boats if you wanted to be part of the sport you had to work at it than build it. Than Don came along and you could buy a boat from the factory race ready and every guy living on a canal became a weekend racer. And the “old school” racers were cool with that because they saw it as confirmation of how great the sport was and how great it had become.

Offshore grew exponentially in the 70’s. To the point were it was much bigger than it is now, but because it was such a new sport everybody felt like they were on the ground floor of a great new thing. They would not complain about the way things were simply because they did not know any better. Than when it lost its fad status and settled down, the changes started coming. Some good and some bad, the powers that be became fixated on popularity and the who’s who in the pits.

Now too much popularity may not ruin a sport, but it changes it for the worse most the time. A sports founding traditions, history, customs, values and beliefs go out the window and will be quickly forgotten as new people flood in. People will dilute the purity of the goal, abuse the value system, alter the mindset, and weaken the resolve of the founders and then move on to wreck havoc on the next fad they find. It doesn’t matter to the new guys whether the sport they jumped into and eventually changed with their non-core values maintains it’s purity, because they are just passengers on the bus that stopped at an Offshore Race and will pick them up and take them to the next “hot” spot after this. We have very few people left in this sport who remember were it came from (much like me) with new teams and people entering and existing the sport every 3 to 4 years with each adding a little to the stew or taking something away.

Now look what we have today, Forget about the minor squabbling we see and look at the full on name calling, back stabbing and fighting online for everyone to see. I watched what appeared to be a great class grow and than start to tear it selves apart right in front of me in a matter of months. Why? It seems like this sport has developed the lobster effect; simply put one lobster will never let another lobster get free from the pot. This unfortunately seems to be the norm. Modern offshore racers don’t usually like to see other succeed were they have failed. If one tries to do something positive, another instantly starts looking for ways that it will not succeed. Instead of giving hypothetical reasons while something will fail, why not encourage someone efforts or work together for a positive result? Teams need to realize what might be good for the sport might not be good for them and try and remember the sport is bigger than anyone, no one is bigger than the sport.


I for one I’m tired of all the negativity.

:iamwithstupid:

This has always ,and will always spring up ,every year .

So ,just make a forum ,called " CROSSFIRE " or some such .

Then those who wish can partake ,those who dont care about the issues ,dont .

[2TR]

This has always ,and will always spring up ,every year .

So ,just make a forum ,called " CROSSFIRE " or some such .



LOL.. :biggrinjester:

[Pat D]

I would like to know why someone hasn't pulled the plug on a thread that has become the signature of bad professional behavior.

Daredevil has been banned for being annoying and far less slanderous than others who are allowed to continually make accusations and FORCE their attitudes, opinions and worldly knowledge in print to get attention.
Yeah I know....I don't have to read it, but you are wrong if you think many other people aren't watching the negative stuff like a car crash.
If it were anyone else voicing all the "negative".....would it still be allowed?
I don't think so.
Enough is enough.

[Ratickle]

There will always be those "negative" people who think the only way they can be a "success" is to demean and minimize others accomplishments.

Personally I usually ignore them, because, for me to care about someone elses comments and views, I first have to respect them.

[2TR]

There will always be those "negative" people who think the only way they can be a "success" is to demean and minimize others accomplishments.

Personally I usually ignore them, because, for me to care about someone elses comments and views, I first have to respect them.



Some times people comments "or posts" can have a damaging effect.


There are three other OPA teams considering building or buying an SVL. All are afraid to commit for obvious reasons. .

[Mike A.]

Some times people comments "or posts" can have a damaging effect.

So true, so true.

[mdkeywest]

Until you guys put the authority in the hands of one overseer you,ll always get this .

Always .

[mdkeywest]

If I promise to be positive will you guys pay my way down to the races ?