House AC died need some info

[sledge]

Air handler is blowing air, nothing but a hum from the outside unit (compressor?) It's a Rheem 10 SEER built 10/02 so I know it's ripe for replacement. But I'm hoping I can get away with a band-aid until my old man (30yrs HVAC) gets back from his cruise and hooks me up.

I have no gauges and only a simple multi-meter, but if there's something I can check (or smack with a wrench) before I call out the AC techs, let me know.

[Chris]

Is the evaporator coil frosting up? Are you getting air flow out of your registers?

If you're not getting flow, the freon is probably low. Otherwise, replace the motor capacitor.

[JupiterSunsation]

I replaced one late last year. I can't help you with the diagnosis but can tell you to get with a company that does rebates with your local power company/Obama. The SEER rating is somewhat misleading (as in as the unit ages the SEER value actually drops). But when buying new with an authorized rebate installer the rebates can really add up.

I got pitched everything from Trane 13 SEER to the highest level XYZ brand SEER available. The deal I ended up going with was the longest warranty with the highest rebate and the best SEER rating (most bang for the buck). Funny thing was it was almost like mattress shopping since no two companies pitched the same unit so it was tough to decipher what was the best price due to the variation in units.

[Boss460]

Air handler is blowing air, nothing but a hum from the outside unit (compressor?) It's a Rheem 10 SEER built 10/02 so I know it's ripe for replacement. But I'm hoping I can get away with a band-aid until my old man (30yrs HVAC) gets back from his cruise and hooks me up.

I have no gauges and only a simple multi-meter, but if there's something I can check (or smack with a wrench) before I call out the AC techs, let me know.

Refrigeration manufacturer here. You say outside unit is humming. You also didn't say anything about the fan (on the outside unit) not running so I'm assuming it is. The noise from the compressor should be easily distinguished from the noise of the fan.

[cigdaze]

Drain pan full? Line clogged? Float switch stuck?

I had the same symptoms last spring. My moisture collector drain pipe was clogged and the pan filled up, float switch killed the system. It still blew air but the rest of the system did not operate.

[sledge]

"outside humming" as in electric motor getting juice but not turning. Fan not turning.

Mom staying with me, she cranked it down to 73 last couple of nights and the d@mn thing runs non-stop (until my frozen @ss gets up and turns the temp up). I wouldn't doubt there was a frozen evap at some point.

Yeah Nick, I had that happen once before so already checked that; nice and dry.

Not looking forward to having to "shop" the AC stuff if my dad can't help out. Of all the mechanical stuff I've learned from him, I've only recently started messing with auto AC. Between this and plumbing, I need to learn how to solder/braze some copper pipe already. :D

[sledge]

Jup, tell me more of what you ended up with. I'm down in Broward so I'm a FPL slave like you.

[Boss460]

"outside humming" as in electric motor getting juice but not turning. Fan not turning.

Mom staying with me, she cranked it down to 73 last couple of nights and the d@mn thing runs non-stop (until my frozen @ss gets up and turns the temp up). I wouldn't doubt there was a frozen evap at some point.

Yeah Nick, I had that happen once before so already checked that; nice and dry.

Not looking forward to having to "shop" the AC stuff if my dad can't help out. Of all the mechanical stuff I've learned from him, I've only recently started messing with auto AC. Between this and plumbing, I need to learn how to solder/braze some copper pipe already. :D

Without the fan turning, the compressor would be unable to stay running (if that's what's humming). Does the hum come and go after a few minutes? The compressor would overheat and keep kicking itself off on high pressure for a few minutes. If this is the case replace fan motor. Based on what you've told me it's nothing serious and shouldn't need to replace the entire unit.

[Chris]

If it's humming outside the compressor may be running. Let it sit for a while then have someone kick it on while you're down the basement. You'll hear fluid running in the lines. You should get a little cooling with the fan not running, but not much.

There are breakers in the cabinet- if you get restrictions on airflow they'll pop. My buddy has two units below his office window. He's got bird feeders on the sills. He called me last week- no air, I went and looked- they were full of sunflower seed shells. Cleaned them out, popped the breakers and it runs fine.

[Boss460]

By the way since the fan is on outside of the unit you should be able to put your ear on the motor itself to see if the humming is coming from it. If it is NOT coming from the fan motor then you definitely have a bad fan motor and that's all. The only other thing on it that could hum is the compressor and means it's fine.

[JupiterSunsation]

Jup, tell me more of what you ended up with. I'm down in Broward so I'm a FPL slave like you.

FPL rebate, govt. tax credit and Rheem rebate. Changed the whole unit inside and out (power bill dropped $75 a month as well). The original unit was 2001 model, house built in 01. This was my upstairs unit (3 ton), downstairs is still a 2001 model (5 ton).

Unit was about $5700, after rebates/tax credit I laid out $2700 total out of pocket. I will PM you my guy's info. He actually is a neighbor and I liked his price/personality better than the other 3 guys (one of which was my a/c guy for 3-4 years). He also changed a whole unit out for a buddy of mine in Lake Worth last year as well. He has 5-6 trucks on the road and would easily do a job in Broward.

[sledge]

I'm no humming expert :D, but I'm gonna say it's constant? Is it the compressor motor that's typically two-stage? It might be a louder hum initially then less humming.

Would there be a breaker on the outside unit? I would figure if it's humming, it's getting juice. Breaker on air handler isn't tripped, still blowing air.

[Boss460]

It might be a louder hum initially then less humming.

You just described what a compressor sounds like. Replace your fan motor and voila fixed.

[sledge]

Ooof, $5700 for a 3-ton? I'm either 3.5T or 4.0T (hating these vaulted ceilings). At least the after-tax OOP isn't so bad.

[JupiterSunsation]

Try to spin the fan with a stick (anything but your fingers) it may have a bad run/start capacitor. The fan may continue spinning once you give it a push off......

[sledge]

So can a reasonably mechanically inclined dude replace a fan motor himself? What else can I do to double check before I tear it all apart? Ballpark cost for a motor?

I just scheduled a service call for between 5-7pm. Race is on to see if I can fix it before they get here. :D

[JupiterSunsation]

Ooof, $5700 for a 3-ton? I'm either 3.5T or 4.0T (hating these vaulted ceilings). At least the after-tax OOP isn't so bad.

The net number was fine with me and if I had the money I would easily change out the 5 ton downstairs unit. Just paid the property tax bill (8K) and insurance ($5600) so it drained my "household" account! :sifone:

I suspect this summer I will change it but for now it is blowing cold!

[Sunsation96]

Could be a few things that will cause the "humming"

1. The rheems use a dual capicitor for both the fan and the compressor. The capicitor could be bad see if the top of it is out of shape. It will look like the capicitor exploded from the inside out. A good multi meter will check capicitors.

2. The "humming" could also be caused by your contactor pulling in but having no main 220v power at the condensor check for 220 on L1 and L2.

3. The condensor fan could be frozen causing the internal saftey to shut off on the compressor. See if the fan will turn with a screw driver with the power off.

Call me if you have any question 586-557-2629 Jonathan

[Boss460]

So can a reasonably mechanically inclined dude replace a fan motor himself? What else can I do to double check before I tear it all apart? Ballpark cost for a motor?

I just scheduled a service call for between 5-7pm. Race is on to see if I can fix it before they get here. :D

Sounds like fun. Let's do it! He is right it could be the motor start cap. Try spinning it first. It'd be cheaper for sure. Motor itself (been a while but if I had to guess) around $100. It's attached to the grating on the unit. Should be bolts holding grating to the unit. Once those are unbolted just lift it up, disconnect wires and take it to a supply house. They can even check the motor to verify it's death. Then it's just a matter of reconnecting wires and rebolting.

[Sunsation96]

Dude I can own a Mystic if I work down by you guy's prices are crazy I am packing right now see you in a few day's

[Sunsation96]

Also a reason prices will increase over just a condensor swap out is if your evaporator is not 410a rated this will cause a increase in the price and a decrease in your bank

[Sunsation96]

So can a reasonably mechanically inclined dude replace a fan motor himself? What else can I do to double check before I tear it all apart? Ballpark cost for a motor?

I just scheduled a service call for between 5-7pm. Race is on to see if I can fix it before they get here. :D

Don't tear it all apart use the multi meter to do the work check for power to the motor and power to the unit may not be the motor at all

[Boss460]

Dude I can own a Mystic if I work down by you guy's prices are crazy I am packing right now see you in a few day's

I got a 10ton package unit for less than the 3ton he mentioned. :sifone:

[sledge]

Alright, if I'm not back on after a little while it's because I took a 220v shot. You'll read about it in the papers. :D

[Boss460]

Based on what you said about the humming being louder at startup and then more quiet I would rule out contactor.

[JupiterSunsation]

Dude I can own a Mystic if I work down by you guy's prices are crazy I am packing right now see you in a few day's

That is the FL dream that eats out of towners alive........


Don't forget FL has insane insurance rates: cars, boats, houses whatever

FL is full hacks that couldn't make it "up north" so they come down here to show us how it is done "up north"

FL is full of people with burnt out dreams. Fantasy of moving to FL starts with a week's vacation in the winter. Move to FL, rent beach chairs on the ocean and make millions...........quickly turns into waiting tables for $500 a week and hating tourists!

The crime, immigrants and high cost of living drives a lot of people back home!


My sister is married to a Westpoint grad and lives in the midwest. She was born in FL, grew up in Boca Raton and so did her husband. They have lived all over the place including Germany courteous of the US Army. Neither would even consider moving back to FL.......even after he is out of the Army.

They built a brand new house in the midwest on a 1/2 acre for 190K. Built by Americans driving American trucks and the cost of living is ridiculously low. I have visited and yes it was refreshing but not for me but I did like the concept.

[sledge]

I'm alive.

Fan spins freely.

RE: checking the capacitor
I'm guessing I need to turn the t-stat on so it's trying to work before I can verify voltage? And which terminals do I put the test leads on? I've got a solid 240V across the two red mains.

I may be reaching here, but would a bad capacitor cause both the fan and compressor not to turn on? Is that what I'm looking at?

[JupiterSunsation]

turn it on, spin fan and see if it stays running but when the t-stat shuts off/house is cool the fan may stop and won't restart until you hand spin it again........but atleast your house will be cooler! :D

[sledge]

Hmmm....wonder what the breakeven would be on keeping a "laborer" out there to hand-start the fan every so often? :D :D :D Got the PM, many thanks.

[Sunsation96]

Could be a few things that will cause the "humming"

1. The rheems use a dual capicitor for both the fan and the compressor. The capicitor could be bad see if the top of it is out of shape. It will look like the capicitor exploded from the inside out. A good multi meter will check capicitors.

2. The "humming" could also be caused by your contactor pulling in but having no main 220v power at the condensor check for 220 on L1 and L2.

3. The condensor fan could be frozen causing the internal saftey to shut off on the compressor. See if the fan will turn with a screw driver with the power off.

Call me if you have any question 586-557-2629 Jonathan


READ ABOVE

[Sunsation96]

Fan will not run with out the Run cap in working order a new cap will set you back $12.00 see if there is a oil film on the cap body

[JupiterSunsation]

Hmmm....wonder what the breakeven would be on keeping a "laborer" out there to hand-start the fan every so often? :D :D :D Got the PM, many thanks.

advertise job as: Low pay with free blow jobs! :sifone:

[Sunsation96]

The cap is a Dual cap for both the compressor and the motor as stated above. You also need a contactor real bad just do both and enjoy the summer

[JupiterSunsation]

Fan will not run with out the Run cap in working order a new cap will set you back $12.00 see if there is a oil film on the cap body

but if it is the "start" cap the fan will run......:sifone:

[sledge]

Sun96 bare with me, no electrician here. Don't know which L1 and L2 you reference. The capacitor doesn't look like it has an exploded top? Is the contactor the piece with all the wires? How can you tell it's needed?

Update though, got the fan started with the screwdriver trick. Still a constant hum with an intermittent hum every 60 secs? Something is trying to start.

[Sunsation96]

Sun96 bare with me, no electrician here. Don't know which L1 and L2 you reference. The capacitor doesn't look like it has an exploded top? Is the contactor the piece with all the wires? How can you tell it's needed?

Update though, got the fan started with the screwdriver trick. Still a constant hum with an intermittent hum every 60 secs? Something is trying to start.

Not a problem Just trying to help a fellow SOS brother. Now on your contactor that is the original one and for $15 I would replace it the contacts are hit and it is simple to change.

[Sunsation96]

Sun96 bare with me, no electrician here. Don't know which L1 and L2 you reference. The capacitor doesn't look like it has an exploded top? Is the contactor the piece with all the wires? How can you tell it's needed?

Update though, got the fan started with the screwdriver trick. Still a constant hum with an intermittent hum every 60 secs? Something is trying to start.

You need to go to a local supply house and get a cap and contactor and go from there. I have contacts in Flodia at supply houses if you tell me where you live near. Let me know I can make a phone call

[Sunsation96]

From the bottom of your unit looking up on the sides check to see how the coil looks from the inside it appears to be dirty this plays hell on electrical of your ac. That is easy to clean with a garden hose. The Rheems are the hardest to clean BTW but the nice thing is that the coil is protected real nice.

[sledge]

Jonathan, look for an incoming call from 305-

[Sunsation96]

To help you

[Sunsation96]

Nice speaking with you Mike call me if you have any more questions I live for this stuff if you can' tell LMAO no more 220v shots!:sifone:

[Chris]

Sunsation- PM me an address and I'll send you a Serious tee. Thanks for helping a fellow member out!

[sledge]

HELL YEAH!!!!

I don't know exactly how cold it's supposed to feel but there's no (unwanted) humming and everything is kicking in; blowing cold air now!!!

The cap cost $45; more than I thought but I'm sure cheaper than having a service call. I'm going to keep my evening appt since they've got a $20 coupon for a "Safety Check." They can check my work and the refrig levels.

Can't thank everyone enough for chipping in. Jonathan, thanks a ton for the quick conversation and labels on the photo. :D

And thanks Chris for sending him a shirt on my behalf. I swear, whenever someone balks at making a token contribution to a site like this, remember these kinds of efforts and consider how much "value" there really is on here.

[Madpoodle]

oops, to late :)

[Sunsation96]

HELL YEAH!!!!

I don't know exactly how cold it's supposed to feel but there's no (unwanted) humming and everything is kicking in; blowing cold air now!!!

The cap cost $45; more than I thought but I'm sure cheaper than having a service call. I'm going to keep my evening appt since they've got a $20 coupon for a "Safety Check." They can check my work and the refrig levels.

Can't thank everyone enough for chipping in. Jonathan, thanks a ton for the quick conversation and labels on the photo. :D

And thanks Chris for sending him a shirt on my behalf. I swear, whenever someone balks at making a token contribution to a site like this, remember these kinds of efforts and consider how much "value" there really is on here.

Mike, not a problem glad to see it worked out for you! Also glad to see you got her up and working! If you need anything give me a call you got my cell.

[sledge]

Can't believe how much these guys get for some stuff.....$165 for the contactor, $185 for the capacitor....it was worth the $70 service call to have the guy check & clean everything. Pressures are good but the compressor does sound a little "loose." It may run forever, it may die tomorrow. But thanks to you guys I'm chillin' tonight!

[pullmytrigger]

Can't believe how much these guys get for some stuff.....$165 for the contactor, $185 for the capacitor....

HOLY CHIT!!......that cant be right

if it is I gotta raise my prices!

[JupiterSunsation]

a/c in FL is like crack cocaine to an addict..........just got to have it!

Mine broke and on the 2nd floor the inside of my house with all the windows open was 82 at 10 pm.......luckily the downstairs was 70 with the other unit blasting out cold air!

[Sunsation96]

Can't believe how much these guys get for some stuff.....$165 for the contactor, $185 for the capacitor....it was worth the $70 service call to have the guy check & clean everything. Pressures are good but the compressor does sound a little "loose." It may run forever, it may die tomorrow. But thanks to you guys I'm chillin' tonight!

Holy Cow! It is a scroll compressor you have alot more life in that bad boy:USA: Good to have the pressures checked and coils cleaned. I can set you up with some whole sale houses near you to get that capacitor at a good price if you would like that bad boy will crap out on you soon.