Kramer trying to get exonerated for Aronow killing.

[JupiterSunsation]

Benjamin Barry Kramer, the flashy South Florida powerboat racer convicted of ordering the notorious 1987 murder of business rival Don Aronow, is claiming that authorities sent him to prison knowing that the triggerman had cleared him of involvement in the slaying.

His proof: a purported February 2009 deathbed confession by triggerman Robert "Bobby'' Young in which the killer claimed he told police and prosecutors in 1995 that Colombian drug dealers actually ordered Aronow's assassination.

Kramer, who pleaded "no contest'' to manslaughter in 1996 in exchange for 19 years in prison, is asking Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Dava Tunis to throw out his conviction. A preliminary hearing is set for Friday.

But one of the lead homicide detectives on the case on Tuesday called Kramer's claim "complete, unadulterated b---s---.''

Kramer has already finished the 19-year state sentence for Aronow's killing, but his lawyer suggested the move could somehow help reduce Kramer's separate federal life sentence for money laundering.

``Ben Kramer seeks vindication based on actual innocence. It may materially impact other matters as well,'' one of his lawyers, Benson Weintraub, said in a statement.

A millionaire powerboat builder, Aronow was gunned down in February 1987 outside his USA Racing office in the 3000 block of Northeast 188th Street.

Prosecutors alleged that Kramer ordered Aronow's assassination in a business dispute.

Young, a ruthless convicted killer, kidnapper and cocaine trafficker, admitted to authorities that he gunned down Aronow. He pleaded ``no contest'' to second-degree murder in 1995 and was sentenced to 19 years, but his plea deal did not require him to identify who had hired him for the hit.

Young died in prison last year of natural causes. But before that, according to Kramer's attorneys, Young called them to say he had long ago cleared Kramer in a meeting with prosecutors and police shortly after taking his plea.

``I told prosecutors and police detectives that I had been hired by Colombian cocaine dealers to kill Donald Aronow,'' according to Young's statement filed by Kramer's attorneys. ``I also furnished the prosecutors and police detectives with the names of two Colombian cocaine dealers.''

Young's deathbed statement was taken by defense lawyer Kenneth Kukec, who represented Kramer along with Jose Quiñon.

According to Kramer's motion, he only took the manslaughter plea to get out of squalid conditions at the Dade County Jail. Kramer claims that neither he nor his lawyers were ever notified that Young had fingered Colombians for the hit. If true, the law would have required disclosure from prosecutors of such exculpatory evidence to the defense.

Former Miami-Dade police homicide Detective Greg Smith, who sat in on the debriefing with Young, denied the gunman ever cleared Kramer or named Colombians as the masterminds of the Aronow hit.

``He never implicated anybody,'' Smith scoffed. ``He said he wasn't a rat.''

One of Young's lawyers, Kayo Morgan, famously echoed his client in 1995: ``Bobby is not a rat. He is not a cheese-eater.''

Miami-Dade prosecutor Gary Winston, who handled the case then, said he could not comment because he had not seen Kramer's motion.

The state's case against Kramer relied on testimony of two jailhouse informants and a disgraced lawyer who had learned of Kramer's involvement, as well as incriminating phone calls from Kramer recorded in federal prison.

Kramer is also notorious for his storied attempt to escape from prison. In 1990, he tried fleeing the Federal Correctional Institution in South Miami-Dade in a helicopter, but failed when the copter crashed.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/23/1544290/dismissal-of-conviction-sought.html#ixzz0j5e03ngn

Copyright © 2010, South Florida Sun-Sent

[Caincando1]

Interesting stuff! It would be cool to know if Bobby really did finger the Columbians or not. That sure would re-write history.

[DollaBill]

free ben

[Chris]

I guess Ben has the time to try this. It's not like it could get any worse.

[Chris]

free ben



Sure, I'm in . Is shipping extra?

[Elite Marine]

He's where he belongs...rotting away.

[Expensive Date]

If he gets out do we make him a charter member?:)

[Ted]

If he gets out do we make him a charter member?:)


Icon

[Tank]

Ummm, so let me get this straight, kramers lawyers claim they were given a death bed confession? How convenient. Good luck with that!:rolleyes:There's so many details of this case that confirm kramer was behind the murder it's almost humorious he's now claiming he's innocent.

[GENERAL LEE]

It could be true, but there are too many people that don't want him to ever see the light of day.

[htrdlncn]

19 years for killing someone
Life for money laundering....

anyone see something wrong with this picture?

[Chris]

19 years for killing someone
Life for money laundering....

anyone see something wrong with this picture?

Nothing new there. It's always been that way.

Kill an ordinary guy and have a bad lawyer, do some time. Good lawyer, do a little. But steal money? And if you're stupid enough to try to cheat the government out of money? You're screwed.

[glassdave]

19 years for killing someone
Life for money laundering....

anyone see something wrong with this picture?

i was just wondering that exact same thing . . . wtf? :confused:

[cigdaze]

19 years for killing someone
Life for money laundering....

anyone see something wrong with this picture?

Ya. But it's easy to understand the government's position: Which crime hurts the government more? What's a life worth compared to lost Tax Revenue? :rolleyes:

[Chris]

free ben

:)

[OldSchool]

Somewhere in Illinois, cashbrain's got a hard-on thinking about how much $$$ he can make by selling some T-Shirts. :rofl: :rofl::sifone:


I always thought that Kramer was doing life under the drug kingpin charge of life with no possibility of parole. Something about getting caught with 550 tons of weed on a ship???????

[JupiterSunsation]

Somewhere in Illinois, cashbrain's got a hard-on thinking about how much $$$ he can make by selling some T-Shirts. :rofl: :rofl::sifone:


I always thought that Kramer was doing life under the drug kingpin charge of life with no possibility of parole. Something about getting caught with 550 tons of weed on a ship???????


RICO statue for running a continuous smuggling enterprise was what I thought finally got him in conjunction with IRS issues.

[cowisl]

Ummm, so let me get this straight, kramers lawyers claim they were given a death bed confession? How convenient. Good luck with that!:rolleyes:There's so many details of this case that confirm kramer was behind the murder it's almost humorious he's now claiming he's innocent.

Ever read Speed Kills? Makes you wonder because there were so many players in this whole mess

[Tank]

Ever read Speed Kills? Makes you wonder because there were so many players in this whole mess

Yea, I read it. I actually lent my copy to the producer that has the copy right to do the Don Aronow movie. I know it is very convoluted. There's just a few details that stick out like a sore thumb and point in the direction he was guilty as all hell. Seems many involved after the fact and have given their opininions have agendas. I tend to believe the interviews and statements of the investigating officer. He seems to be a no bullsh!t type of guy and really had nothing to gain or lose by getting kramer to confess. Nice to close a case and all and I've heard the story's of pressure by locals to solve the murder, but it had been sitting stagnent for many years prior. Case pretty much died out.

Regardless, "free Kramer"? I don't get it. OJ Simpson was once a beloved sports icon as well, I don't hear many yelling free OJ...And he was found not guilty of murder and pleaded not guilty to robbery.

Guess I'm old fasioned....I like my drug smuggling, money laundering, confessed to murdering criminals in custody where they should be.

[cowisl]

Yea, I read it. I actually lent my copy to the producer that has the copy right to do the Don Aronow movie. I know it is very convoluted. There's just a few details that stick out like a sore thumb and point in the direction he was guilty as all hell. Seems many involved after the fact and have given their opininions have agendas. I tend to believe the interviews and statements of the investigating officer. He seems to be a no bullsh!t type of guy and really had nothing to gain or lose by getting kramer to confess. Nice to close a case and all and I've heard the story's of pressure by locals to solve the murder, but it had been sitting stagnent for many years prior. Case pretty much died out.

Regardless, "free Kramer"? I don't get it. OJ Simpson was once a beloved sports icon as well. However, I like my drug smuggling, money laundering, confessed to murdering criminals in custody where they should be.

I agree. If you ever get bored, do some searches on George Morales. Interesting to say the least

[Indy]

I hope Bubba's having some fun with him.

[FastDonzi]

I agree. If you ever get bored, do some searches on George Morales. Interesting to say the least


Or read up on Sal Magluta and Willie Falcon (SeaHawk Boats), They where the Sh!t when it came to having ill gotten money. Kramers cash pile was small beans compared to theirs.

[JupiterSunsation]

Regardless, "free Kramer"? I don't get it. OJ Simpson was once a beloved sports icon as well, I don't hear many yelling free OJ...And he was found not guilty of murder and pleaded not guilty to robbery.

Guess I'm old fasioned....I like my drug smuggling, money laundering, confessed to murdering criminals in custody where they should be.


A crook is a crook no matter what the crime. If he owed someone money and didn't pay do you think they would be screaming "Free Kramer?" This guy was a smuggler, a champion racer and a thug. Too many are impressed by the smuggling/racing accomplishments but forget about the "thug" aspect. This isn't a guy you would want to hang out with, let your sister date or have as a neighbor. :rolleyes:

And not just Ben Kramer.........I think Aronow had a lot of the same qualities, good and bad. :D

[Matt Trulio]

I have to admit that this recurring question of Ben Kramer's "innocence" kind of baffles me. He plead no contest, which is quite different from pleading guilty but also quite guilty from pleading innocent. If he gets his sentence reduced or actually gets out on appeal, I'm sure I'll find it interesting. Until then ... not so much.

I've read a big about Sal Magnuta and Willie Falcon. Some of the old Miami Herald articles on them were pretty enlightening. Not people you'd want to hang around, unless you happened to be, like each of them, a criminal.

There were some really scary people in offshore racing during the 1970s and 1980s, which, ironically, were probably the hey-days of the sport.

Want to talk to someone who got to chat with all of them? Check in with T2X.

[DAREDEVIL]

I am just wondering,,,,u all know life is 25+ it does not mean that you are in the FOR LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And ownwstly,,,I DON'T THINK HE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ARRONOW CASE !!!!!!!!

I just think he was mad at him , but not that mad. :eek:

[Slandrew]

Don't know these guys will read book!I was in Florida in 1972 even then Floridians stayed clear if a certain bad boy boat crew from NY which was that crew!I know he originated from Sheeps head Bay Brooklen,N.Y. most players don't make it past 50 sad but true if he was innocent that whould be some cover up!

[OldSchool]

I am just wondering,,,,u all know life is 25+ it does not mean that you are in the FOR LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And ownwstly,,,I DON'T THINK HE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ARRONOW CASE !!!!!!!!

I just think he was mad at him , but not that mad. :eek:

Good grief. Do a search and then repost. Life without the possibility of parole. Do you understand what that means?

[JupiterSunsation]

The part that must be making him INSANE is dying day by day in that hellhole box thinking about all the money, women, cars, boats, whatever that he had and then realizing he is in the box with nothing.....

You have to wonder if he regrets staying in that game so long or if he dreams of being like so many others that ran hard for a couple years and got out penalty free.......

I had an old girlfriend that had a very rich father despite being unemployed. He had a 800K house paid for and nice cars but years of unemployment. He lived out of a cardboard box full of cash for years (like 20+). The money finally ran out and he slowly sold everything but had aspirations of doing one more job to get back in the money again. He never did, or if he did he never got to fill that cardboard box again. He will occasionally let a detail slide about the good old days now that the statue of limitations has run out.........

Florida is full of guys that ran hard for good money and then parlayed that small fortune into legitimate businesses/investments. Ben might envy these guys for getting the cash and getting out with their freedom.......

In my mind, being a waiter at a beachside restaurant for $500 a week is a better gig than rotting in a box with 100mm in cash buried somewhere!

[DAREDEVIL]

Good grief. Do a search and then repost. Life without the possibility of parole. Do you understand what that means?

DID he get with out parole ?????????? i missed that part, but if it only says life...thats 25+ ?!!!!!!! NO ?????? :confused:

[LotoSteve]

Aronow aside. Bottom line, he took his shot at getting rich quick and lost and he new the punishment going in.

[LotoSteve]

Anyone know why the helicopter crashed?

[Chris]

He plead no contest, which is quite different from pleading guilty but also quite guilty from pleading innocent. .



Not really. More of a technicality. We discussed this in depth on here a few months back. If I remember correctly, by Florida law, a nolo plea restricts you from having any access to the appeal process.

On the Fed sentence, why would they want to even consider releasing him?

[Chris]

Anyone know why the helicopter crashed?

Hit the fence.

The helo came low into the fenced pen and when chubby ben grabbed the skid, it rocked it sideways. A rotor blade clipped the perimeter fence.

The pilot had just learned to fly.

[imco offshore]

Anyone know why the helicopter crashed?

the tail rotor hit a wire that ran from the fence to the building,

[Tommy Gun]

free ben

what about Willard?

[OldSchool]

Anyone know why the helicopter crashed?

Stepped rotors!!!:eek::ack2::willy_nilly::sifone::sifone:

[tommymonza]

I made a post a couple of years ago but deleted it after coming to my senses.

I had a neighbor who moved over here in 1987 who was there and according to some men he saw nothing. This man lived next to me for from 1987 until Kramer was in jail. One day he and his family that i may have seen 10 times in 5 years packed up and moved back to the East Coast.

Only conversation i had ever had with him in that time was i take it by your taste in boats you must be famaliar with the name Aronow. He told me a quick story and jumped in the moving truck and headed out.


No Bullchit.

[Buoy]

So, does anyone believe that anyone other than Kramer was involved in some way, shape, or form, of the drug trade in the 80's??
I'd be surprised, if not shocked, that most of the performance builders of that era were not involved in some fashion - indirectly, or known.
I think very few are truly "innocent". It was the times, it was the era.

I don't think a lot of guys these days are custom building boats with specified 24x24 deck hatches with no cabin.

The builders knew what they were doing, they were selling boats.
And the buyers knew what they were buying, and what they were buying the boats for.

It was an interesting time. And I miss all the folklore that came along with it.
I don't really condone drugs, and it's something I've never been interested in.
However, I am interested in the boats that were used to haul the stuff.

[rchevelle71]

So, does anyone believe that anyone other than Kramer was involved in some way, shape, or form, of the drug trade in the 80's??
I'd be surprised, if not shocked, that most of the performance builders of that era were not involved in some fashion - indirectly, or known.
I think very few are truly "innocent". It was the times, it was the era.

I don't think a lot of guys these days are custom building boats with specified 24x24 deck hatches with no cabin.

The builders knew what they were doing, they were selling boats.
And the buyers knew what they were buying, and what they were buying the boats for.

It was an interesting time. And I miss all the folklore that came along with it.
I don't really condone drugs, and it's something I've never been interested in.
However, I am interested in the boats that were used to haul the stuff.

My boat had no cabin, but it also had no hatch:sifone:

[FastDonzi]

If you where a builder of Performance boats back in the 70's-80's Someone used one of your boats to haul some weed or Yayo. I know people that have been to Bimini and back at night in a 18' Action, they didn't go there to get some "Clear Bottle Becks", although they did come back with some:)

[cigdaze]

DID he get with out parole ?????????? i missed that part, but if it only says life...thats 25+ ?!!!!!!! NO ?????? :confused:

NO! When you get a Life sentence, that means life. You sit in prison until you die.

[fund razor]

I made a post a couple of years ago but deleted it after coming to my senses.

I had a neighbor who moved over here in 1987 who was there and according to some men he saw nothing. This man lived next to me for from 1987 until Kramer was in jail. One day he and his family that i may have seen 10 times in 5 years packed up and moved back to the East Coast.

Only conversation i had ever had with him in that time was i take it by your taste in boats you must be famaliar with the name Aronow. He told me a quick story and jumped in the moving truck and headed out.


No Bullchit.

I do believe it was up long enough for me to remember it. I remember that it was credible... and then vanished.

....I forget what it said though. :leaving:

[Brownie]

No, Matt, they were "Hay" days..........

[phragle]

NO! When you get a Life sentence, that means life. You sit in prison until you die.


And you get free health care... so your in jail longer even............

[Quinlan]

Surely MR Brownie has a few Stories.

[Magic Medicine]

:rofl::rofl:
Somewhere in Illinois, cashbrain's got a hard-on thinking about how much $$$ he can make by selling some T-Shirts. :rofl: :rofl::sifone:


I always thought that Kramer was doing life under the drug kingpin charge of life with no possibility of parole. Something about getting caught with 550 tons of weed on a ship???????

:iagree::eek:

[Sean Stinson]

Ben Kramer was sentenced under the CCE federal guide lines....CCE = Continuing Criminal Enterprise. It's similar to RICO but much harsher in respects to appeals and so forth....

I would be a bit bitter, though, to be sitting in prison for smuggling something that you can buy out of a vending machine in Cali with a selection of products like a coke machine!!!!!

And it was more like a couple million pounds!!!!