Raylar LSM550...any feedback

[spilman]

What's the latest word on these sb's? Anyone know how they perform...has anyone heard of problems? Just curious since they came out this spring and were supposed to be a big seller; I have yet to hear or see them on the water...

[yesrej]

thats a good point. i would like to hear something also???

[spilman]

Guess they never sold any?!

[4mulafastech]

Hey there Spilman!:seeya: I just found my way over here. This is my first 'serious' post!

The only LSM550 installation I am aware of is from that pokerrunboats outfit in the EU. They installed one in a 271 Fastech which, IMO, is probably not the best application since the CG will be effected quite a bit and it is a HEAVY 27 footer. I think we will have to wait until spring for a performance report on that rig.

It really does surprise me though that Raylar, after putting so much R&D time and money into developing this marinized LS engine, has not spent the money to install these in a boat for test reports and promotion in magazines.:huh: Boats already designed to have twin small blocks (like ours!:)) would be perfect candidates. Until actual performance gains and durability are demonstrated, it's going to be hard to justify the $$'s. Until then we can just dream and :drool5:!

[spilman]

Hey there Spilman!:seeya: I just found my way over here. This is my first 'serious' post!

The only LSM550 installation I am aware of is from that pokerrunboats outfit in the EU. They installed one in a 271 Fastech which, IMO, is probably not the best application since the CG will be effected quite a bit and it is a HEAVY 27 footer. I think we will have to wait until spring for a performance report on that rig.

It really does surprise me though that Raylar, after putting so much R&D time and money into developing this marinized LS engine, has not spent the money to install these in a boat for test reports and promotion in magazines.:huh: Boats already designed to have twin small blocks (like ours!:)) would be perfect candidates. Until actual performance gains and durability are demonstrated, it's going to be hard to justify the $$'s. Until then we can just dream and :drool5:!

Hey 4mula, rite bac @ u, good to see u made it over...i am not a "post machine" like some of my AT bruthas, but now and then i feel the urge to say something stupid for all to see!
Great point about the Raylars and the lackluster advertising and testing; I think there would be no better candidate than an Active Thunder 28 or a Formula 292....
BTW, my engine trouble was as simple as a leaky exhaust manifold gasket! I am phsyched...I am adding the Imco full hydraulic external steering this winter and keeping the power stock, for now.
Good to hear from you.
Happy Thanksgiving week to all!!

[RLJ676]

Anytime I see someone thinking of building a new 28ish I'm always throwing out this idea. It's what I'd do, but I don't have new boat money (or maybe any boat money as I work at GM), and it's easier to spend everyone elses cash.

I think it'd be perfect for a turnkey, reasonably fast single (or real fast twin). The combination of the weight savings with 550 just seems perfect for a 28 single AT, Pantera, Sunsation, etc.

[Griff]

IMO, the weight savings will throw the center of gravity off too much on the larger 28 singles. They will bow steer too much and need the weight at the stern. I think it would be a good package for smaller twin engine boats that get too stern heavy with twin BBC's.

[catmando]

Keith Eickert has developed a 600hp SBC.

[spilman]

IMO, the weight savings will throw the center of gravity off too much on the larger 28 singles. They will bow steer too much and need the weight at the stern. I think it would be a good package for smaller twin engine boats that get too stern heavy with twin BBC's.

Exactly, Griff...If you read my previous post I stated that my current boat(28AT), has a keel plane due to it being stern heavy. The LSM550 would be an incredible set-up, twins of course....:boxing_smiley:
The AT 28 would not work well w/ a single small block, no matter what the hp, the cg would be off. Plus, not enough torque w/1 sb...

[ILMORdude]

Whats the cost of the Raylar?

[spilman]

Whats the cost of the Raylar?

26.5k.......big money for a sb with no record of longevity
Anyone know if it has a 1 yr warranty or what?

[ILMORdude]

You can get into a low hr used v10 625 for that............but the raylar is a nice looking piece.

[spilman]

You can get into a low hr used v10 625 for that............but the raylar is a nice looking piece.

You can also buy two(2) 500 efi's w/low hrs or 525's with 120hrs for that!!
The whole point of the LSM550 is the weight savings, power to weight ratio and size;the 27-33' twin engine application where t/bb's are just too heavy. I realize the Ilmor is alum., but it is just too big for this application. A 502ci unless you have at least 650+hp and huge torque. Most of us who want sb's want a reliable package that will run 80, get 2+mpg, and not need to be rebuilt every season also. It's a fine line, but if there were an affordable small block package it would appeal to many right now. just my .02

[glassdave]

26.5k.......big money for a sb with no record of longevity
Anyone know if it has a 1 yr warranty or what?

yes i believe it has a one year warranty but i also read that they may be bumping that to two year. Its a fantastic piece with good numbers for performance. I dont really think pricing is out of line for that package. I really like the techie stuff and the LS1 has a great record for longevity. How great would it be to have a pair of those with ITS/Bravoxr/Sporty lowers on a 27 Sport Magnum :D

[4mulafastech]

Hey 4mula, rite bac @ u, good to see u made it over...i am not a "post machine" like some of my AT bruthas, but now and then i feel the urge to say something stupid for all to see!
Great point about the Raylars and the lackluster advertising and testing; I think there would be no better candidate than an Active Thunder 28 or a Formula 292....
BTW, my engine trouble was as simple as a leaky exhaust manifold gasket! I am phsyched...I am adding the Imco full hydraulic external steering this winter and keeping the power stock, for now.
Good to hear from you.
Happy Thanksgiving week to all!!

Great to hear it was only an exhaust gasket!

Wise choice in upgrading to full hydraulic steering. You will LOVE the feel and control at high speed in the rough. I bit the bullet when I ordered my 292 and had Formula install Latham steering on mine so, like you, my rig would be ready for more speed sometime into the future!

Happy Thanksgiving!:cheers2:

[MarylandMark]

I've always like how Ray @ Raylar represented his company and shared his knowledge! I know most of you know this info as they were answers to your questions but thought I'd add it for anyone that didn't see it.

About sales/being a big seller from 6/20/08:


The orders for these new engines have been slower in coming than we would have liked, but the industry is shrinking right now and new boat orders are almost flat with many builders, Mercury is dropping prices on engine packages to keep the plant working and a lot of boaters thinking repower just don't have the bucks!
We feel fortunate at this point that we sold a few LSM550's and they will be on the water soon.

Price on 8/19/08:


Two Raylar LSM 550's ...............are about $51K for twins and for what they are thats a very good price point.

Warranty and lifespan on 9/08:


We obviously don't have real long hour results yet on this new engine, but my professional knowledge and opinion on the operating hours, based on how well these LSM550's are built and the quality of the parts used tells me that a boater should see somewhere between 500 and 750 hours before any overhaul should be required, possibly longer depending on use. Most likely at that point I would also think that a new set of rings and bearings, an oil pump, a valve job on the heads with new springs and maybe a new set of roller lifters and rockers might be all thats required for an overhaul. We warranty the engine now for 1 year and with more history we may extend that warranty to two years.

Weight savings on 9/11/08:


1100HP from all aluminum 89 pump gas engines in this boat with 1000lbs less weight than a twin big block packages or 600lbs less than a twin small block package that will only make perhaps 700HP total for the iron small blocks, makes this choice a real "no-brainer"!

and revised rebuild time (guess more testing showed they would last longer):


I......especially when you consider 750-1000 engine hours for the LSM550's............

I can't wait to see more boats with them- I'm a fan!!

[Never Enuff]

Does anyone know if Ray has been over here yet? If not, maybe some one should reach out to him. His knowledge would be of great value IMO.
Jay

[ar15meister]

Would love to see how they would run in a staggered 28 Pantera with no cabin and a 3 man bolster.......

Thats my 'lottery win' build (well one of them anyways)

[Steve Miklos]

IMO, the weight savings will throw the center of gravity off too much on the larger 28 singles. They will bow steer too much and need the weight at the stern. I think it would be a good package for smaller twin engine boats that get too stern heavy with twin BBC's.

I love that engine platform but I agree on the cg issue.
Steve

[Bad Idea Baja]

I have heard that there is going to be a production small block that is close to 650hp. Just a rumor from what I hear.

[Raylar]

Yes, I am over here now also and glad to be here with Chris and the Gang!
Sorry for the delay in answering as we are pretty busy right now just trying to make sure we can keep the doors open and sell a few kits and motors in this abismal market!
The LSM550 has been built and sold in a small number and we are waiting for some of these installations to hit the water with dialed in results.
We know its on a lot of performance boater minds, but good things take time and remember we premiered this motor in Miami in FEB, 2008 and most everybody just walked by it and did not even realize how impressive this new offering was! We were at that time and are still now at least two years ahead of the market and the boats that were being ordered and sold at that time without even considering this offering!
Believe me when I say we have been trying and Powerboat did an engine article in May 08 and we still had very few takers.
Obviously we are not Mercury ,lmor or others who can produce 10 or 20 of these motors and drop them no charge to the builders and wait for the results and press. We have to wait for real buyers who plop down their hard earned cash on a new boat and want this power or builders who want to invest in a stock boat for a build only order. So far we have only had orders for re-fits on existing boats and that makes introduction difficult and slow.
Guess we should be glad we have a fully developed great performing, lightweight, small dimensional package engine available and just hold on until the industry recovers or just rolls over!
As for pricing I wish we could drop the pricing but this is an very well built, well equipped complete high performance engine with all the bells and whistles and state of the art equipment and features. We tried just taking a stock high performance GM 427 ci. LS aluminum engine and rigging it for marine high performance use and believe me it did not work and will not work. It needs the special pistons and compression ratios, variable cam timing, all forged special internals, blueprinting, careful engineering of systems and electronics to make it work, make over 500HP+ , 540ft/lbs of torque and stay together without supercharging, which won't work in marine high performance decent hour use! Believe me, GM has been trying and guess what, there not there yet because it does not work!! Hence , Mercury is not there with them!!
This is the motor most other engine manufacturers like Mercury, Volvo, Ilmor would like to have available in a good performance boat market. Our real problem is now that market does not exist and we are at the Party , Overdressed and alone on a very sparse Dance Floor!
Anybody got any resonable ides how to revive the performance boat market, I AM ALL EARS!! And our toll free phone is always on to those considering stepping up for the wonderful LSM550 Raylar aluminum engine!!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

[Raylar]

Yes, I am over here now with Chris and the Guys, but for some reason a reply I wrote to this thread today has not been posted. Maybe I am banned or something, not sure, Hope not!

Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

PS: I try my reply again tonight!

[MarylandMark]

Ray if you would like me to delete so you can speak for yourself let me know. Those were your quotes and just wanted to spread the word...

[BY U BOY]

I have heard that there is going to be a production small block that is close to 650hp. Just a rumor from what I hear.

Are you talking about the one I think you are talking about?:biggrinjester:

[spilman]

The suspense is killing me....

[Bad Idea Baja]

Are you talking about the one I think you are talking about?:biggrinjester:

I'm not talking about anything........:drool5:
When does W get back?????

[BY U BOY]

I'm not talking about anything........:drool5:
When does W get back?????

Dec 21st:biggrinjester:

Whats the game plan for your mills?

[4mulafastech]

...Obviously we are not Mercury ,lmor or others who can produce 10 or 20 of these motors and drop them no charge to the builders and wait for the results and press. We have to wait for real buyers who plop down their hard earned cash on a new boat and want this power or builders who want to invest in a stock boat for a build only order...

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Hang in there Ray, I am sure things will turn around. Hopefully the demand for 496 upgrade kits will increase from people not ready to spend money on new power.

Regarding the LSM-550. I understand that you can't just throw these engines to manufactures at no charge, but how about one project boat? Find a used 27-30 foot with a good hull that is originally rigged with Mercury small blocks and install two of you LSM-550's. Once dialed in you can approach all the major magazines to do an article on it. I would expect this type of publicity and advertising would more than make up for the cost of two engines! You could also pay someone to attend various poker runs. Heck, they may do it for free! Have RAYLAR LSM-550's plastered on the side! I bet this would stir up some business. Just an idea...

Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving!!:)

[Raylar]

Maryland Mark:
No, your quotes were quite accurate and informative for those who had not previously read them in context, they are a good synopsis of some discussions.

As for our plans for the mill, they are just like all of our other product plans, keep making excellent products for the performance boating market and selling our products to those who can purchase and benefit from their use.
Raylar knows that as boat users and builders are able to and can eventually see their way to purchase and use the wonderful LSM550 engine, it will be there to purchase and perform.
We kind of think of ourselves as the old Timex watch commercial slogan, "We take a lick'in and keep on tick'in!"

Thanks for all of our customers and supporters who have cotinued to sing our praises and buy our products. for that we are very greatful and Thankful at this time of year just before Thanksgiving Day!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

[Tommy Gun]

I'd love to put one of those puppies in my Cig 20.

[Bad Idea Baja]

Dec 21st:biggrinjester:

Whats the game plan for your mills?

Set them in the living room to look at.:D
Keep them as spares. Put them in something, hell I don't know, but I do know the living room sounds good to me!

[Baja Fresh]

I understand that you can't just throw these engines to manufactures at no charge, but how about one project boat? Find a used 27-30 foot with a good hull that is originally rigged with Mercury small blocks and install two of you LSM-550's. Once dialed in you can approach all the major magazines to do an article on it. I would expect this type of publicity and advertising would more than make up for the cost of two engines! You could also pay someone to attend various poker runs. Heck, they may do it for free! Have RAYLAR LSM-550's plastered on the side! I bet this would stir up some business. Just an idea...

Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving!!:)

And I have just the boat! :D

Seriously, my 29 Outlaw now has twin 7.4 MPI's. With only 200 hours, they are not ready for replacement but like everyone else, I want more power. A lot of the Baja guys say the small block 29 Outlaws ride much better then the big block ones, so replacing a pair of BB's with these motors would get me the power needed and balance out the boat better.

So I would love to slap them in but it is cost prohibitive. The motors cost more than what the boat is worth! And there in lies the problem, as Ray said there is a very limited market for these motors. Even in a strong boat market small blocks are going to be limited to about a 30 foot boat. Bigger boats that cost way more $ will run bigger motors. My boat would do very well with a pair of 496HOs (even better with a Raylar kit on them!) and though I wouldn't get the weight savings, I can find a pair of low hour take outs for way less money. If money was no object and I wanted say, a new 28 stepped hull Pantera, these would be the hot ticket! But that would be a very pricey boat.

[Bad Idea Baja]

And I have just the boat! :D

Seriously, my 29 Outlaw now has twin 7.4 MPI's. With only 200 hours, they are not ready for replacement but like everyone else, I want more power. A lot of the Baja guys say the small block 29 Outlaws ride much better then the big block ones, so replacing a pair of BB's with these motors would get me the power needed and balance out the boat better.

So I would love to slap them in but it is cost prohibitive. The motors cost more than what the boat is worth! And there in lies the problem, as Ray said there is a very limited market for these motors. Even in a strong boat market small blocks are going to be limited to about a 30 foot boat. Bigger boats that cost way more $ will run bigger motors. My boat would do very well with a pair of 496HOs (even better with a Raylar kit on them!) and though I wouldn't get the weight savings, I can find a pair of low hour take outs for way less money. If money was no object and I wanted say, a new 28 stepped hull Pantera, these would be the hot ticket! But that would be a very pricey boat.

I might have some Whippled 454's making 650 each for sale after the 1st of the year. They have pushed my 29 to 94 MPH.

[Baja Fresh]

I might have some Whippled 454's making 650 each for sale after the 1st of the year. They have pushed my 29 to 94 MPH.

We should just trade boats! :D

[Bad Idea Baja]

We should just trade boats! :D

Ok, how much cash you gonna put in yours for me?:sifone:Make sure it has a comma in it & at 5 digits, not including the decimal point.

[Baja Fresh]

Ok, how much cash you gonna put in yours for me?:sifone:Make sure it has a comma in it & at 5 digits, not including the decimal point.

5 digits and a comma? Okay, that would be $10,000.00, I can do that! :D

Are coming out for Desert Storm?

[spilman]

Regarding the LSM-550. I understand that you can't just throw these engines to manufactures at no charge, but how about one project boat? Find a used 27-30 foot with a good hull that is originally rigged with Mercury small blocks and install two of you LSM-550's. Once dialed in you can approach all the major magazines to do an article on it. I would expect this type of publicity and advertising would more than make up for the cost of two engines! You could also pay someone to attend various poker runs. Heck, they may do it for free! Have RAYLAR LSM-550's plastered on the side! I bet this would stir up some business. Just an idea...

O.K.-This is exactly what I am willing to do: Allow Ray to take my Active Thunder, install two brand spankin' new LSM550 sb's in it, dial it in and slap some massive Raylar LSM decals all over the boat. Then we go to as many poker runs next year as we can schedule, spank as many 30-42' 500hp & 525efi boats as possible, making it perfectly clear that they are getting smoked by a small block boat!!
Heck Ray, I'll even pay for all the fuel and all the entry fees and your welcome to bring along a crew; maybe I'll even let ya drive!:03:

4mula, thanks for opening the door.....this is a Win-Win for sure!:sifone:

[BY U BOY]

Set them in the living room to look at.:D
Keep them as spares. Put them in something, hell I don't know, but I do know the living room sounds good to me!

I think you should let me keep one warm in my Scarab.I promise to keep it warm:sifone:

[4mulafastech]

Regarding the LSM-550. I understand that you can't just throw these engines to manufactures at no charge, but how about one project boat? Find a used 27-30 foot with a good hull that is originally rigged with Mercury small blocks and install two of you LSM-550's. Once dialed in you can approach all the major magazines to do an article on it. I would expect this type of publicity and advertising would more than make up for the cost of two engines! You could also pay someone to attend various poker runs. Heck, they may do it for free! Have RAYLAR LSM-550's plastered on the side! I bet this would stir up some business. Just an idea...

O.K.-This is exactly what I am willing to do: Allow Ray to take my Active Thunder, install two brand spankin' new LSM550 sb's in it, dial it in and slap some massive Raylar LSM decals all over the boat. Then we go to as many poker runs next year as we can schedule, spank as many 30-42' 500hp & 525efi boats as possible, making it perfectly clear that they are getting smoked by a small block boat!!
Heck Ray, I'll even pay for all the fuel and all the entry fees and your welcome to bring along a crew; maybe I'll even let ya drive!:03:

4mula, thanks for opening the door.....this is a Win-Win for sure!:sifone:

LOL! Now you're talkin'! Although, at this point I think we are :beatdeadhorse5:

(I just HAD to find a way to use that smilie!):biggrinjester:

Just one other quick comment. Raylar having a 'project' boat is a great way to obtain long term test results in real world applications to find any weak links and make improvements. There is ALWAYS room for improvement.

[spilman]

Thanks, I agree completely; like the smiley!

Happy Thanksgiving all...

[07DominatorSS]

Maryland Mark:
No, your quotes were quite accurate and informative for those who had not previously read them in context, they are a good synopsis of some discussions.

As for our plans for the mill, they are just like all of our other product plans, keep making excellent products for the performance boating market and selling our products to those who can purchase and benefit from their use.
Raylar knows that as boat users and builders are able to and can eventually see their way to purchase and use the wonderful LSM550 engine, it will be there to purchase and perform.
We kind of think of ourselves as the old Timex watch commercial slogan, "We take a lick'in and keep on tick'in!"

Thanks for all of our customers and supporters who have cotinued to sing our praises and buy our products. for that we are very greatful and Thankful at this time of year just before Thanksgiving Day!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray,
I would, as I'm sure others would too, be more than happy to be a test boat. I have a 2007 Sunsation 32 SS MCOB with 496ho's in it right now. Just let me know if you want to try. I think it would be a great combination with those engines and my SS hull.

[yzbert]

O.K.-This is exactly what I am willing to do: Allow Ray to take my Active Thunder, install two brand spankin' new LSM550 sb's in it, dial it in and slap some massive Raylar LSM decals all over the boat. Then we go to as many poker runs next year as we can schedule, spank as many 30-42' 500hp & 525efi boats as possible, making it perfectly clear that they are getting smoked by a small block boat!!
Heck Ray, I'll even pay for all the fuel and all the entry fees and your welcome to bring along a crew; maybe I'll even let ya drive!:03:

4mula, thanks for opening the door.....this is a Win-Win for sure!:sifone:

wow if ray doesnt jump at that offer he must not be thinking straight, but lets make the offer even sweeter. lets say he also bolts on some raylar kits to my 37 active thunder with 496 power and we both put a beat down on the 500 hp and 525 efi boats :26:
the things that we are willing to do and the time we are willing to spend on this project really warms my heart.

[spilman]

wow if ray doesnt jump at that offer he must not be thinking straight, but lets make the offer even sweeter. lets say he also bolts on some raylar kits to my 37 active thunder with 496 power and we both put a beat down on the 500 hp and 525 efi boats :26:
the things that we are willing to do and the time we are willing to spend on this project really warms my heart.

Hey, If I've got to, I'll go to as many Poker Runs as it takes to get the word out there! I know, I know, you're saying what a guy; willing to put himself through all those Poker Runs and show off his boat at new, break-neck speeds with those incredible new LSM550's! If its gotta be done, I'm your man Ray! Just think of it:
"Folks, this is the 1999 28' Active Thunder Savage with a pair of new Raylar LSM550 small blocks; turning Hydromotive 34" 4 blade props @ 5800rpm we're right @ 100mph, just imagine what fun we'll have once she's dialed in!" :sifone:
This to all the drivers of the twin bb boats after the run!
Gives me something to dream about this winter!:biggrinjester:

[Lakeside]

I'd love to put one of those puppies in my Cig 20.

We have a customer that is having us totally redo his 20 cig. So far he is leaning heavily towards the LSM550 Due to weight, power, torque & closed cooling.. I think that a bigh Hp SB in the 20 might be a good way to go here.. Not only that it would free up some space back there for service as well if he goes that route.. :) Jamie

[Tommy Gun]

We have a customer that is having us totally redo his 20 cig. So far he is leaning heavily towards the LSM550 Due to weight, power, torque & closed cooling.. I think that a bigh Hp SB in the 20 might be a good way to go here.. Not only that it would free up some space back there for service as well if he goes that route.. :) Jamie

That would be my first choice. All positives, no negatives that I can think of. The HP is plenty for a 20 when considering the lighter weight.

[Lakeside]

That would be my first choice. All positives, no negatives that I can think of. The HP is plenty for a 20 when considering the lighter weight.

Those are my thoughts as well.. His biggest deterent at the moment seems to really just be the thought that it isnt a big block.. If it was my choice It wouldnt matter to me as my opinion is who cares if it is'nt a BB. If its a stout SB & can really kick as$ then so be it..! Oh well we will see what he decides to do here at some point.. All I can do in the mean time is present the info & facts, the remainder is for him to decide as to what he wants to pay to install.. ;) Jamie