Will PRA move the 1000 Islands Poker Run out of Kingston?

[Joe549]

There is a small minority of self-rightous eco-hippies who have been kicking up a lot of waves for the past couple of years in the city of Kingston regarding the 1000 Islands Poker Run. They are a small group of probably no more than 30 people, who have gone before City Council (aka The Gong Show) protesting the event and attempting to force Council to "shut it down". They have presented council with loads of bogus facts, bunk science and TONS of propaganda. The sad disgusting problem is, Council appears to be buying it. This article comes from one of the local ragazines that is published every month. I will attempt to find other articles that have been printed in our local newspaper.

[catastrophe]

Thats the best Poker Run anywhere.

[Joe549]

Here are a few more links to articles regarding the poker run situation and the primary adversary, SPLASH. I recommend reading the ones in bold

http://k7waterfront.org/Topic/__KEMC20090305

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1689562

http://k7waterfront.org/files/SPLASHInformationKit2009.pdf

http://www.emcfrontenac.ca/20100114/News/Annual+Poker+Run+is+'negative'+to+environment,+according+to+report

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2368002

https://www.cityofkingston.ca/pdf/cityhall/committees/keaf/minutes/2010/KEAF_Minutes_0110.pdf

http://kingstonelection2010.com/update-on-the-poker-run/ (contains a rather interesting quote from one of our ignorant council clowns)

[harhem]

I just joined this board because I noticed that my website had a few referal hits from here. I am the owner of www.kingstonelection2010.com. I hope I am not breaking any rules by doing this. If i am let me know. I welcome anyone to email me as well. I would like Joe to email me regarding this. For eveyrone elses information. I am running for city council in Kingston and pro poker run.
Thanks

harold Hemberger

[Scarab KV]

What a bunch of whack jobs. Sounds to me, like their ultimate goal is to get all motorized boats of the water.

Please tell me the PR has representation at these meetings also. Would be a shame if they just sat back hoping nothing happens.

[cigdaze]

I just joined this board because I noticed that my website had a few referal hits from here. I am the owner of www.kingstonelection2010.com. I hope I am breaking any rules by doing this. If i am let me know. I welcome anyone to email me as well. I would like Joe to email me regarding this. For eveyrone elses information. I am running for city council in Kingston and pro poker run.
Thanks

harold Hemberger

Welcome to the site!! Good luck and thank you for your support.
I especially appreciate your postings from Jan. 20, Jan. 6.
:)

[redhotsommer]

I just read the SPLASH manifesto...all I can say is...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Unfortunately kids, these people are WINNING. :(

[redhotsommer]

The best lines:

This event has equally significant social costs:
• Because participating in this event requires access to wealth, promoting and celebrating it sends
a message that the wealthy should be allowed certain extra privileges such as ability to exploit
natural resources and exemption to city bylaws.
• It is an example to our children that over-consumption is acceptable. We should be providing
healthier role models for our children as they are the leaders of the future.


Don't be rich, you evil, evil people!!!!!!

[harhem]

I just read the SPLASH manifesto...all I can say is...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Unfortunately kids, these people are WINNING. :(
well maybe with the global warming crowd losing credibility, hopefully this will turn around.

Harold Hemberger

[glh]

Just like Lake George NY did last year on the Poker Run planned there, we went somewhere else.

I will spend the $5k to $7k for that weekend in another area buying gas, food, meals, beverages, hotel rooms, souvenirs and so forth. All the employees, property tax paying owners, shareholders, contractors and suppliers of the establishments in the new area where these moneys will be spent will I am sure welcome the new spending.

As for Kingston... I hope they get a lot of economic activity from the four emp-burlap sac wearing hippies from that SPLASH Commune, as well as the two stoner spectator watching them kissing owls while eating tree bark in a park by their pop-tent.

[harhem]

a few questions

1) Does anybody know of any communities that did not want the poker run . if so what happend.

2) How much money gets spent at these events. The 5-7K sounds like it is not an average amount that would be spent any other type of group. I would like to compile this information to show the impact.

Harold Hemberger
www.kingstonelection2010.com

[Chris]

Lake George NY, last year. Cancelled last minute.

[Chris]

What Kingston needs is an expensive court case to litigate and waste citizen resources on.

It's not up to communities to dictate what is socially respectable nor a good example for children. And if they want to play the "environmental impact" card, they're going to have to examine the full impact of every non-resident that enters their town, determine whether their purpose of visit is business or recreational and study specifically what the true impact and cost truly is. That study would probably only take several years or so.

Typical knee-jerk thinking. Invent barriers based your own rationalizations and selectively impose them upon certain individuals you just don't like. Don't think so.

Oh, yeah. The issue with CO2 impact and the concept of carbon offsets is still not accepted as incontrovertible fact anywhere I'm aware of.


Or maybe I'm exhibiting my ignorance for the Canadian judicial system.

[harhem]

One thing - if council this year is negative towards the Poker Run this year, Please let the Poker Run community know Oct 25th is when we have municipal elections here.
Give us another chance next year.

For Joe549 since you lve in Kingston as well

Pro Poker Run candidates
me - Harold Hemberger - Portsmouth District
Patrick Foley - Cataraqui District

too soon for the rest

Harold Hemberger

[Big Time]

a few questions
2) How much money gets spent at these events. The 5-7K sounds like it is not an average amount that would be spent any other type of group. I would like to compile this information to show the impact.

Harold Hemberger
www.kingstonelection2010.com

That might be at towards the higher end of the spectrum, but when you take into account that most of these boat owners bring their family and friends on these runs from anywhere from 2-4 days, spending that kind of money is certainly not out of the question.

The thing that kills me is if this was some sort of sailboat regatta, do you think that they would be playing the "access to wealth" card? Highly doubt it.

[catastrophe]

What I understand from just talking to PRA is that this group SPLASH is trying to make Kingston because of its history the first truly GREEN CITY in Canada.

The first obvious offender is wasteful high speed poker run boats.

If anyone knows BT they know he isnt about to roll over.

I have been to that event many many times and it is by far the best Poker Run bar none.

Kingston is acting like AHOLES here. The boats are PARKED at Kingston for the most part. The effect on neighbouring communities that have card stops ( especially Brockville ) would be burdensome economically.

And one must remember , for that weekend everyone parks their tow vehicles and WALKS to spend their tourist monies in the hotels restaurants and bars. Cant get any greener than that.

The economic impact study that Splash is demanding is about to waste one years contribution of this and other NON GREEN events.


Shameful waste of taxpayers money.

We should watch which councillors have the parts to tell these birdwatchers to phuck off.

[redhotsommer]

Our little group from Chicago was responsible for about $2k in bar tab alone when we went up there...and I'm not kidding.

[Chris]

Our little group from Chicago was responsible for about $2k in bar tab alone when we went up there...and I'm not kidding.

So what you're saying is you took it easy that weekend? ;)

[Expensive Date]

[QUOTE=glh;459727]Just like Lake George NY did last year on the Poker Run planned there, we went somewhere else.

And we were the only people eating in both Kingston NY and at the marina.They could not have said thank you enough.Oh and we had a great time.

[MarylandMark]

I'm no high roller and semi-thrifty but average $1K/day on vacation once airfare, drinks, cabs, food, drinks, taxes, t-shirts, drinks, tours, drinks and so on are figured in. Toss a boat in the mix, minus the airfare and add another 10-15% to the total if all goes well, more if it doesn't.

[cigdaze]

a few questions

1) Does anybody know of any communities that did not want the poker run . if so what happend.

2) How much money gets spent at these events. The 5-7K sounds like it is not an average amount that would be spent any other type of group. I would like to compile this information to show the impact.

Harold Hemberger
www.kingstonelection2010.com

The dollar figure is quite typical. The average poker run boat or "team" will usually have 4 to 6 persons attending. That's a couple rooms for a couple nights ($1000), 36-72 meals ($1500+), a couple hundred gallons of fuel, plus drinks, entertainment, shopping, etc., etc. - and that doesn't include traveling/trailering to and from, maintenance, and heaven forbid breaking something.

[tommymonza]

Take a year off. The community will welcome you back with open arms and smelly hippies hanging from the welcome signs.

[ChiefApache]

This would be a shame. We did 1000 Island's about 4 years ago. It was an awesome time. The people were great, the city was great.

Do they have no idea the impact of money lost if this PR is cancelled?

[T2x]

a few questions

1) Does anybody know of any communities that did not want the poker run . if so what happend.

2) How much money gets spent at these events. The 5-7K sounds like it is not an average amount that would be spent any other type of group. I would like to compile this information to show the impact.

Harold Hemberger
www.kingstonelection2010.com

Does Kingston have a Chamber of Commerce? The event has been a staple in that town for 20 years. Have'nt the hotel operators, restaurant owners, gas stations, and bar keepers, etc kept records?

[bluellama]

Our little group from Chicago was responsible for about $2k in bar tab alone when we went up there...and I'm not kidding.

We stumbled into the "closed" Johnny Mac's bar a couple of years ago. The doorman unlocked the door to let us in, then we realized that the girls dancing on the bar were the bartenders, and the guys behind the bar pouring jaegar bombs 20 at a time were the Chicago crew.......

T2x, this run has been in the 1000 Islands for 20 years, but it has only been in Kingston for the last 5. If it has to move, it will, the run will still go on, and some other small community will reap the benifits.

[catastrophe]

We stumbled into the "closed" Johnny Mac's bar a couple of years ago. The doorman unlocked the door to let us in, then we realized that the girls dancing on the bar were the bartenders, and the guys behind the bar pouring jaegar bombs 20 at a time were the Chicago crew.......

T2x, this run has been in the 1000 Islands for 20 years, but it has only been in Kingston for the last 5. If it has to move, it will, the run will still go on, and some other small community will reap the benifits.

I agree.
But the losers will be the boaters. I've been there a long time and Kingstons venue is head and shoulders above the rest, for many many reasons.

[nthdegree]

We have done this poker run for 5 years, 3 different boats!!!
We have never been to a poker run that had friendlier town people.
It is still amazing to us how interested in high performance boats these people are and pulling into Brockville, you would think you were a rock star!!
:driving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU-UtMjkKZk

[bluellama]

I agree.
But the losers will be the boaters. I've been there a long time and Kingstons venue is head and shoulders above the rest, for many many reasons.

Alec, you are correct. The ability to launch anywhere from Cornwall to Buffalo run lock free to Kingston, tie the boat up, and never worry about a car is huge. Restuarants, hotels, bars, and shopping all within a 5 minute walk of your boat is something unique to Kingston.
I'm pretty sure when Kingston engineered the move from Gananoque to Kingston, there was some year to year money, and I think that ran out after 5 years.
Kingston better be careful, because they may get what they wish for.....

[catastrophe]

Alec, you are correct. The ability to launch anywhere from Cornwall to Buffalo run lock free to Kingston, tie the boat up, and never worry about a car is huge. Restuarants, hotels, bars, and shopping all within a 5 minute walk of your boat is something unique to Kingston.
I'm pretty sure when Kingston engineered the move from Gananoque to Kingston, there was some year to year money, and I think that ran out after 5 years.
Kingston better be careful, because they may get what they wish for.....

We are there 1.5 days of 365 !!!

Fkn retarded pinheads.
They should be shot with a ball of their own sh!t.

[Joe549]

The biggest problem here is that this small self-interest group SPLASH is actually being able to convince our council that the MAJORITY of people in this area do not want the poker run here, which is the exact opposite. The poker run is by far the largest event in Kingston in both attendance and revenue generation for local businesses. This is the only event that these clowns are targetting, meanwhile they completely ignore the fact that there are hundreds of other environmental destroyers right in front of there eyes every day. Examples: The city run tour boats: Any one of these boats dump more pollutants into the water from their bilges and lack of proper maintenance then all the poker run boats do in a season, they generate much larger shoreline damaging wakes in a single pass then the entire poker run fleet all weekend. The Confederation Tour Trolley: essentially a city bus that has been modified, this noisy contraption runs all day every day from about Labour Day weekend through to Thanksgiving. It travels throughour the historic downtown core taking people by many of the historic sites from Fort Henry all the way to Kingston Pen. It passes by my house about 12 times a day and quite often with as few as 5 people on board. One day it went by with only 1 person. The overabundance of charter tour buses: There are literally several dozen of these things coming into and leaving the city each day. These buses are usually full of group tourists from Asia. They travel past many sites and finally stop downtown for about an hour so the passengers can get off and stretch their legs. The buses will sit down near City Hall idling the entire time while the people take a few pictures and maybe buy a hotdog at the street vendors, then they load back up and head on down the highway to Gananoque where they spend their money to go on the real tour boats or at the casino. Kingston City Transit buses: If you have ever had the pleasure of being stuck behind one of these in traffic and gotten so sick from the fumes that you turn green, you will know what I am talking about.

My point is, it starts with a few people that don't like performance boats then it moves to another few people that don't like the Snowbirds or the Buskers Rendevous or Blue Fest and so on and so on. It is all about small groups that wind up dictating how the rest of us live our lives and what we can or cannot do/enjoy until we are a nation of mindless drones waiting to be told what to do next.

[Team Tsunami]

We are there 1.5 days of 365 !!!

Fkn retarded pinheads.
They should be shot with a ball of their own sh!t.

:iagree: Like my father stated this is a great run that we try to do every year!! The town of Kingston is a perfect venue for a Poker Run!

[Magic Medicine]

We stumbled into the "closed" Johnny Mac's bar a couple of years ago. The doorman unlocked the door to let us in, then we realized that the girls dancing on the bar were the bartenders, and the guys behind the bar pouring jaegar bombs 20 at a time were the Chicago crew.......

T2x, this run has been in the 1000 Islands for 20 years, but it has only been in Kingston for the last 5. If it has to move, it will, the run will still go on, and some other small community will reap the benifits.

That sounds like our crew! Ring da bell:cheers2:

[harhem]

Joe549: exactly as one counciller siad that this is just the first one. As for tht email, is is ok with you to spread the message about me and Pat Foley. Two guys running that support the Poker Run.

Harold Hemberger

[catastrophe]

Joe549: exactly as one counciller siad that this is just the first one. As for tht email, is is ok with you to spread the message about me and Pat Foley. Two guys running that support the Poker Run.

Harold Hemberger

What exactly are you asking??

[B.Z.]

We stumbled into the "closed" Johnny Mac's bar a couple of years ago. The doorman unlocked the door to let us in, then we realized that the girls dancing on the bar were the bartenders, and the guys behind the bar pouring jaegar bombs 20 at a time were the Chicago crew.......

T2x, this run has been in the 1000 Islands for 20 years, but it has only been in Kingston for the last 5. If it has to move, it will, the run will still go on, and some other small community will reap the benifits.

I just wanted to point out that your est. of +20 Bombs at a time might be kind of low...LOL

From BZ (part of the Chicago crew!!!!)

[catastrophe]

Joe549: exactly as one counciller siad that this is just the first one. As for tht email, is is ok with you to spread the message about me and Pat Foley. Two guys running that support the Poker Run.

Harold Hemberger

This whole subject will come down to money like everything else in life.

Arguably the Green Movement has its legitimate points. But after a while someone has to say enough is enough.

Hearing from the boating industry will fall on deaf ears.

City council will get most of its input from 2 sources. The Business Improvement Area members and The Kingston Chamber of Commerce.

They have the most to lose and they are all current taxpayers.

The PR is there 1.5 days a year.
The guy with the 46 Sea Ray and all his friends is moored there 5 months a year.
The route along the river that we traverse has mansions built on it that are built on solid rock. The inoperative or non existent septic systems effect the quality of that stretch of water multi times more than our go fast boats do.

With all this being said I'm curious re your request to have some letter writer mention that you are running for council and want to be known as fighting for the PR.

Seems self serving to me.

[cosmic12]

This whole subject will come down to money like everything else in life.








The route along the river that we traverse has mansions built on it that are built on solid rock. The inoperative or non existent septic systems effect the quality of that stretch of water multi times more than our go fast boats do.

With all this being said I'm curious re your request to have some letter writer mention that you are running for council and want to be known as fighting for the PR.

Seems self serving to me.

Sorry about the edit but the septic point is something that has bothered me for years. I have spent the better part of my boating life in the 1000 Islands area and have always wondered about that and how the hell they get away with it. It is without a dought some of the most beautiful boating anywhere in the country with everything you could ask for and used to be packed with boats and people every weekend untill the tree huggers got started and for the last few years(on the U.S. side) everything has gone down hill fast with cops lurking every where to bust you for something and drive the boaters away but no one has ever made this point about the chit and garbage fires that burn everyday. The boaters are loosing the battle on our side lets hope you guys can stop it before it becomes what A-Bay has become.
A ghost town.:eek:

[Joe549]

What exactly are you asking??

It is regarding an email I sent to him. He is just requesting that I inform local voters that I know/speak with for the upcoming election that he and Pat Foley are 2 candidates that are pro-poker run. I imagine that this topic and others that may/will spawn as a result of it will be part election campaigns for those who are running.........

[harhem]

To Catastrophe: Joe put a link on this thread that was my website ( www.kingstonelection2010.com). I emailed Joe to see if he could help simply by mentioned my name to friends of his as being pro poker run. I am a registerd candidate for the next city council election to be help in October . Pat Foley is another candidate that shares my view.

[catastrophe]

To Catastrophe: Joe put a link on this thread that was my website ( www.kingstonelection2010.com). I emailed Joe to see if he could help simply by mentioned my name to friends of his as being pro poker run. I am a registerd candidate for the next city council election to be help in October . Pat Foley is another candidate that shares my view.

Thats what I thought.

[Joe549]

http://www.kingstonelectors.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2842


The ignorance, arrogance and sheer stupidity of some of the sheeple in this city is just mind blowing..

[Tank]

It's as with most politics...It's the voice of a few "squeaky wheels" that gets the grease. Funny that the group that voices it's opinion and started the effort against the poker run is asking for a 10k extra fee that they recommend go to them for "planting new trees etc"...Riiiiiiight! So it's ok to "pollute the environment", as long as you pay them?

Typical. Sounds to me like there are those that don't like the loud power boaters and revelry of the crowds in their small town and have found a way to get them to move, or at least benefit by it.

I'm sure it all boils down to personal agenda.

Mr. Hemberger,

Something you may not understand is what a poker run is all about and how frequent they are run. Being moved from your city is not going to stop this run, it will only prove to benefit a neighboring city.

This poker run is known across the nation and attended by many from coast to coast. It has been voted a top ten poker run in the nation by Powerboat Magazine several times. With stories and write-ups in a nationally sold magazine it only goes to add up to free advertising for your city.

You ask if the money GLH talked about spending in a weekend is realistic. In short, absolutely 100% yes. Someone else said this is on the high side, I would say, not by much.

These poker runners have boats that can (and do often) run into the million dollar mark. You may want to relay the info that throwing down a thousand or two thousand dollar bar tab in one of your local establishments in one sitting is not un-common. Dinner into the thousands of dollars for one poker runner’s party is quite common. And they're there for several days.

There have been many studies done to show the economic growth that poker runs bring into a city. An example would be the Key West Poker run. It was shown that the FPC bring in somewhere in the 5 million range for the city during the November poker run. The same goes for the Lake Havasu (Az.) poker run. Lakeracerllc (the promoter) has even been in works with the city to help pay for the poker run because the poker run again, brings in somewhere in the 5 million dollar range to the cities business'

I would implore you to do your very best to keep this poker run in your city. Because if it's not in yours, it'll be in your neighboring city.

[Bobthebuilder]

http://www.kingstonelectors.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2842


The ignorance, arrogance and sheer stupidity of some of the sheeple in this city is just mind blowing..

Wow. Well said. I can't believe I just spent a half hour reading through all the drivel that is coming from some of these people. Some of the statements are ill informed and shocking. I have participated in the 1,000 Islands poker run every year for the last 10 years, the last 5 out of Kingston. I have spoken to many residents on the docks who look forward to the boats returning each year. I cannot believe that the silent majority would want to see the event leave the city. I believe a small minority of people are seizing the agenda here.
Thank you for standing up for the Poker Run. It is appreciated.

Bob

[SinkinFastR]

I hope these peoples Prius's slam right into a tree.

[harhem]

This whole subject will come down to money like everything else in life.

Arguably the Green Movement has its legitimate points. But after a while someone has to say enough is enough.

Hearing from the boating industry will fall on deaf ears.

City council will get most of its input from 2 sources. The Business Improvement Area members and The Kingston Chamber of Commerce.

They have the most to lose and they are all current taxpayers.

The PR is there 1.5 days a year.
The guy with the 46 Sea Ray and all his friends is moored there 5 months a year.
The route along the river that we traverse has mansions built on it that are built on solid rock. The inoperative or non existent septic systems effect the quality of that stretch of water multi times more than our go fast boats do.

With all this being said I'm curious re your request to have some letter writer mention that you are running for council and want to be known as fighting for the PR.

Seems self serving to me.
I have been for keeping this Poker Run long before i registered as a user on this board. I know it is an important economic for Kingston. (Oct 21st is the first mention on my site) I am just sick and tired of council blowing opportunrties. You know about the casino up rive at Gan. Kingston was first approached. They did not want it. Problem is we need too prove that the Poker Run is good for Kingston. Bottom line. You want to come to Kingston. You will need a new council. If you think that is self serving. what do you suggest i do

[Tom A.]

Mr. Hemberger,
I know I am just repeating what has already been said here but wanted to emphasize the overall impact to Kingston. I am from NJ and, except for last year, have been to the 1000 Islands Poker Run 5 times. It is one of my favorite areas in the world to boat. If it weren't for a previous commitment last year I would have been there too. My friends and I trailer up from NJ every year for this event. We bring anywhere from 8 to 10 boats just from NJ! I can vouch for the fact that each boat (figure 4 people to a boat) spends at least $1000 - $1500 per day and we usually make a 5 day weekend out of it. That's anywhere from $40,000 to $75,000 just from the "Jersey Crew"!
I have met so many wonderful people up there and the locals have gone out of their way to cater to us and also help us whenever we needed a hand. I hope the majority of locals speak up and do the right thing!

[redhotsommer]

I feel bad for you having to deal with people like Mr. 3aW6, whom I quote right here:

I have recently decided to become a vegetarian. This decision is driven by the fact that the meat industry is not only inhumane, but that it produces more greenhouse gas emissions than the entire oil/gas industry. This is a sustainable choice that I made for the benefit of others. My decision wasn't driven by a dislike of meat, up until a point last year I ate meat on a daily basis. I just finally came to a point where I realized just how unsustainable meat is. I understood I could easily live without eating meat, so I do. It was as simple as that"

Perhaps one action you might consider is politely pointing out that scientific studies have shown that vegetarians produce considerably more methane than those of us that eat meat. If that doesn't cause him concern, at least it will concern anyone sharing a room with him.

[pullmytrigger]

Ok....at this point were still just sitting around b*tching.....
Can someone get and post the email address of the Kingston Town Council and the Kingston Chamber of Commerce?.....Id be willing to send an email to both of them expaining I have a "powerboat" and were thinking of coming to the Kingston area this summer for a boating holiday but have heard through the "boating grapevine" that "powerboats" are "officially unwelcome" by the City of Kingston and ask if thats true.....and if so you'll be sure and skip Kingston as a destination point......maybe a few hundred letters of this type will raise some eyebrows....

[pullmytrigger]

Maybe Bill Taylor with all his boating publications and Powerboat Magazine for that matter needs to get on board and splash across the magazine in big letters "Powerboats not welcome in Kingston!!"......we need to turn this into a much larger "Powerboat" issue and not just a "Poker Runner" issue because as we all know there is no real difference from an environmental viewpoint.....

[harhem]

Ok....at this point were still just sitting around b*tching.....
Can someone get and post the email address of the Kingston Town Council and the Kingston Chamber of Commerce?.....Id be willing to send an email to both of them expaining I have a "powerboat" and were thinking of coming to the Kingston area this summer for a boating holiday but have heard through the "boating grapevine" that "powerboats" are "officially unwelcome" by the City of Kingston and ask if thats true.....and if so you'll be sure and skip Kingston as a destination point......maybe a few hundred letters of this type will raise some eyebrows....

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/cityhall/council/councillors/

[Tank]

If someone could post a link to the Kingston city counsil email, I'm sure we could flood them
with emails in protest. I'd be willing to send an email out.

[pullmytrigger]

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/cityhall/council/councillors/

Thank you very much!
If we can erase the "Poker Runner" aspect of this and put it all under "Powerboats" then we can get the Cruiser guys and all their publications on board (Boating magazine, Trailer boats etc) we can also call into question the City's fleet of Private and City owned tour boats, tour buses....everything

we need to start doing what they do....."seriously"

[catastrophe]

I have been for keeping this Poker Run long before i registered as a user on this board. I know it is an important economic for Kingston. (Oct 21st is the first mention on my site) I am just sick and tired of council blowing opportunrties. You know about the casino up rive at Gan. Kingston was first approached. They did not want it. Problem is we need too prove that the Poker Run is good for Kingston. Bottom line. You want to come to Kingston. You will need a new council. If you think that is self serving. what do you suggest i do


If your not embarrassed to be a politician, thats fine by me.

This comes down to money like everything else does.
Those with a financial interest, namely the commercial enterprises in Kingston will sort it out. Thats why there is a chamber of Commerce there.

We have to remember something, this Poker Run is our hobby, but it happens to be Mr. Taylors business.
So if a bunch of half baked ignorant letters get sent to the wrong people you are hurting the guy that puts up the risk money and effort to put this event on.( I am not referring to you personally.)

I've seen these topics turn to stupid unorganized crap in the past and thats whats not needed.

I read through the drivel on the Kingston site. Its all BS tree hugging garbage.

If Kingston doesnt want it , someone else will.

Net result....if you want to be a politician as a trade off for missing 1.5 days of boating at a PR , ??????????????
If you want to be a politician for other reasons... then have a nice day.

In answer to what I would have you do?

I would poll the businesses in town to establish their position, because if they arent going to fight, dont waste your breath.

And I havent read anywhere where the current councillers sit on this subject.
For all we on this site know, is that they are all 100% on the side of the PR.

Is there a suggestion that they arent?

No letter from performances boaters will pull an ounce of weight in my humble opinion.

Just some personal ramblings

With Respect

[harhem]

If there are letters sent, please be respectful

[pullmytrigger]

I'll be sending letters to both....the C of C WILL pay attention and the Council even if falling on deaf ears will have to concede in a debate at council that they did receive the letters.....

[pullmytrigger]

We should never acknowledge the term "Poker Runner" when speaking to these people......acknowledging that term puts us in a MUCH smaller, more easily defeatable sub group than a "Powerboater"....when pressed we could acknowledge a "Brightly Coloured Powerboat"

You know if the Cruiser guys are smart they'll get on board with us and the whole "powerboater" thing because if we are defeated the Cruiser guys are next......

[pullmytrigger]

You know I don't really have a dog in this fight as my boat is really too small for the run and its too expensive but I have boated a quite a bit in the area and know that Kingston is a vastly superior venue to host the run than Gananoque and its worth some sort of a fight.....its your signature event right? your Indy 500.....and what are you going to do when they show up in Gananoque if victorious in Kingston and try and get you booted from there?......you know their going to.....dont mean to sound harsh but how difficult of a victory was it when we as a group didnt even show up?
These people are highly organized and if they are successful in Kingston that news will be all over their mail outs and websites everywhere.
Us power boaters better get some organisation and start winning some battles in this war that so many of us don't even know we're in.....D

[Joe549]

This women actually compares performance boats to cigarettes..... http://www.emckingston.ca/20090806/News/Time+to+butt+out+cigarette+boats

Kingston is notorious for "screwing up a good thing". We had the chance of having the casino here when they were looking for a place to build, however that was considered "the devil's playground" and run out of town only to be built 15 minutes down the highway in Gananoque. Kingston then had the gall to approach Gananoque and the Casino claiming that they should be receiving a portion of the payouts to the surrounding local communities that the casino does..... they were politely told where to go....

[Matt Trulio]

All,

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the United States it is illegal to discriminate against a recreational vessel on a federally funded waterway (with exceptions such as Marine Sanctuaries and so on). This was exactly the problem the Bluewater Network faced when that group and a others were trying to get personal watercraft banned on Lake Tahoe, which receives federal funding.

The personal watercraft manufacturers correctly pointed out that, at the time, there were plenty of outboard-powered boats that had the same or higher emission levels as PWC. To simply ban them would be doing so because they were PWC. So the powers-that-be such had to base their legislation and restrictions on engine emissions rather than the type of vessel.

Four-stroke personal watercraft are now allowed on Lake Tahoe. Direct fuel-injection two-strokes were allowed there, although I don't know if they still are.

Could a similar tactic be taken in Kingston? The city council doesn't seem to be basing its proposed discriminatory tax on anything other than the classification of boat. The carbon foot print tax does not wash because it is not applied evenly across the board to all boats with internal combustion engines. If all powerboats owners had to pay a carbon footprint tax based on emissions, than owners would higher-emission engines likely would have to pay higher taxes.

The word discriminate was brought up by Mark Braithewaite in the article in the first post of this thread, and proving discrimination I would guess that is the only way performance-boat enthusiasts will win in Kingston.

In most parts of the world, high-performance boats represent a fraction of the boats on any given waterway. So if we're talking about creating taxes based on carbon footprint, I would say lawmakers would have to start with bigger fish such as Sea Ray and Bayliner runabouts and all kinds of fishing boats.

How does taxation work in Canada? I don't know.

But what I think I do know, or at least the path I would try to follow, would be that such a tax is purely discriminatory. And unfortunately, I think performance boaters will have to band together and get legal for anything to happen.

Without question, the opposition is organized. Anything less on the performance-boat side will fail.

[bluellama]

Matt, the thing Kingston needs to realize is that Kingston needs the 1000 PR a whole lot more than the 1000 PR needs Kingston. It worked in Gananoque, and if they could figure the docking out it would work really well in Brockville.
The 1000 Islands Poker Run will take place in the 1000 Islands this year. Whether or not Kingston is involved is up to them.

[Matt Trulio]

Matt, the thing Kingston needs to realize is that Kingston needs the 1000 PR a whole lot more than the 1000 PR needs Kingston. It worked in Gananoque, and if they could figure the docking out it would work really well in Brockville.
The 1000 Islands Poker Run will take place in the 1000 Islands this year. Whether or not Kingston is involved is up to them.

Agreed, but is there a larger issue at stake here? No question, the economic loss is all Kingston's if the town opts out. However, the momentum the anti-go-fast-boat forces create though something like this can be substantial. If I thought the only thing as stake was a small town shooting itself in the foot I really, really would not care. I'm not so sure, but you folks who know the area certainly know better than I do.

One thing I failed to mention about the personal watercraft battle of years past: The companies involved such as Yamaha, Kawasaki, Sea-Doo and Polaris were well funded, meaning that they could match lawyers with the best, and best-funded, environmental groups.

Unfortunately, the high-performance marine industry, especially now, doesn't have the same resources. That makes the fight a lot harder.

Is Kingston an anomaly? If so, if they're just one little town with a whacked out city council, I say wave as you blow by it on the way to the next town that welcomes you and actually appreciates the dollars you spend. If not, then the issue really is larger.

[Tank]

Here is the email I sent to the Mayor of Kingston, Mayor Rosen hrosen@cityofkingston.ca



Dear Mayor Rosen,

I write to you in regards to an alarming issue currently under consideration by you and your council members. The consideration of boycotting the “1,000 Islands Poker Run”.

After reading several publications regarding the request to boycott this event, it quickly becomes apparent that there are those that wish to utilize the claim of benefiting the environment in order to further fulfill their own agenda. These groups, such as “SPLASH” demonstrate great bias and discrimination against a wonderful event.

I see mention in various articles about the carbon foot print “poker run boats” make however, I see no mention (or issue taken) with the carbon foot print tourist boats, sail boat motors, fishing boats, or even tourist cars make. This boycott is clearly an attempt to strong arm an event in order to gain compensation due to the appearance of a “cash cow”.

I’m sure I need not remind you of the fact that those that participate in this event and come to watch this event spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. To give you an example of the type of money your city brings in during this poker run, the Key West (Fl.) poker run brings in an estimated 5 million dollars to the city of Key West, during the Florida Powerboat Club’s November poker run. Another example is the Lake Havasu (Az.) Poker Run brings in an estimated 4-6 million during the weekend of the “Desert Storm Poker Run” hosted by Lake Racer LLC. The city of Lake Havasu is so grateful to have the influx of revenue to the city, they are currently in talks with the organizer’s to help offset some of the expenses of this event.

I think the recommendation of a carbon offset fee borderlines on gluttony. To single out an organization and require them to pay into a carbon offset bank, to be used by the city coffers, when the city itself is already raking in millions in revenue is quite simply transparent and shameful.

This event has been covered by various national and world wide publications as well as being voted a top ten boating event by Powerboat Magazine (the worlds leading performance boating magazine). I personally live in California and though I have not had the chance to visit Kingston, nor attend this event, it is most definitely on my family’s to-do list.

I realize that the threat of this event leaving Kingston and moving to another town along the river, most likely pleases some (including SPLASH) because there is a minority of people that I assume are using the claim of environmental impact as a ruse to get rid of the event which they view negatively as bringing loud boats, crowds of people, congestion and revelers to their quite city. However, it truly would be unfortunate to cease what has obviously become a great partnership between the City of Kingston and Poker Run’s America.

I hope my plea to keep the 1,000 Islands Poker Run in Kingston does not fall on deaf ears. And I hope the Kingston City Counsel come to the correct conclusion; that this event should go on, un-hampered.

Respectfully,

Tank Sears
Channel Islands, Ca.

[Joe549]

That is a well written letter, and hopefully it does not fall on deaf ears. Perhaps if other boaters, especially from those who have attended the 1000 PR and/or boat in the region, were to submit letters it will help steer Council into the right decision instead of being influenced by the noisy minority self-interest groups.

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/cityhall/council/councillors/

Mayor Harvey ROSEN hrosen@cityofkingston.ca

Council Members:

Leonore Foster lfoster@cityofkingston.ca
Steve Garrison sgarrison@cityofkingston.ca
Mark Gerretsen mgerretsen@cityofkingston.ca
Bill Glover bglover@cityofkingston.ca
Dorothy Hector dhector@cityofkingston.ca
Rob Hutchinson rhutchison@cityofkingston.ca
Joyce MaCleod-Kane jmacleod-kane@cityofkingston.ca
Rob Matheson rmatheson@cityofkingston.ca
Sara Meers smeers@cityofkingston.ca
Lisa Osanic losanic@cityofkingston.ca
Vicky Schmolka vschmolka@cityofkingston.ca
Ed Smith esmith@cityofkingston.ca

Chamber of Commerce:
http://www.kingstonchamber.on.ca/contactUs/index.cfm

Downtown Business Improvement Association:
http://www.downtownkingston.ca/index.htm
info@downtownkingston.ca

[Tank]

Well, at least I recieved the curtousy of a responce.

Dear Mr. Sears
*
Thank you for your correspondence regarding the Poker Run.* I will share your comments with Mayor Rosen accordingly.
*
With regards
*
Rose Pennock
Receptionist to the Mayor's Office
City of Kingston
216 Ontario Street, Kingston,ON K7L 2Z3
613-546-4291 ext. 1400

[catastrophe]

Well, at least I recieved the curtousy of a responce.

Dear Mr. Sears
*
Thank you for your correspondence regarding the Poker Run.* I will share your comments with Mayor Rosen accordingly.
*
With regards
*
Rose Pennock
Receptionist to the Mayor's Office
City of Kingston
216 Ontario Street, Kingston,ON K7L 2Z3
613-546-4291 ext. 1400

I would take a courtesy note from a receptionist as something different than a positive move forward.

Please dont forget you are going to affect PRA's business here.

[harhem]

On CKWS news today ( Kingston TV News). Economic Impact of Poker Run will be debated this Tuesday.. Please email each and every counciler.

Harold Hemberger
Kingston ON

[catastrophe]

On CKWS news today ( Kingston TV News). Economic Impact of Poker Run will be debated this Tuesday.. Please email each and every counciler.

Harold Hemberger
Kingston ON


Is it open to the public?????????????

[harhem]

Yes it is. Public meetings start at 7:30

Here is part of the agenda - This related to the Poker Run

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/pdf/council/agenda/2010/COU_A1110-10128.pdf


entire agenda

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/cityhall/council/council_agenda.asp

[pullmytrigger]

I contacted and got a response from Bill Taylor.....he said that the run has indeed ruffled a few feathers in Kingston but at this time the Run will proceed as planned.....he said for any further updates contact his event co ordinator Sheryl MacKey at 1-800-354-9145 x252

[harhem]

Personally i think most people want it ( silent majority types). I will be at the Poker Run for sure. ( between shifts)

[harhem]

Here is the news video

http://www.ckwstv.com/index.cfm?page=news&id=2216

[Team Tsunami]

Here is the news video

http://www.ckwstv.com/index.cfm?page=news&id=2216

Hey thats my red 35 motion cat in the beginning of the vid next to my buddies Donzi 43 ZR and Cigarette 42X! Once again we love going up to Kingston and the 1000 Islands!!

[Caincando1]

Here’s the unfortunate way human nature affects things like this. When people like something they simply enjoy it and tell their friends. They don’t call their public officials to tell them how much they enjoyed something, whatever that may be. When people don’t enjoy something the emotion tends to be different. There seems to be something about the emotion of being happy that people want others to be happy. When people feel the emotion of anger or dislike, they tend to want other to feel the same way. Therefore when people don’t like something it’s more common to take the next step and call a public official to complain. Since the squeaky wheel gets the grease, the public officials are hearing from the minority that doesn’t like something versus the majority that do. Simply because the majority’s voice if often less heard in the ear of the public officials, an event like this can affected by the minority.

The moral of the story... if you like the 1000 Island Poker Run, call the public officials and tell them. A compliment carries more clout than a complaint.

[harhem]

Due to other agendas running late, the Kingston Poker Run was not mentioned at yesterdays council meeting. Therefore it is not too late to keep some of those letters coming in to council.

Harold Hembeger

[catastrophe]

I asked this once and got no answer.
Have the councillors been polled to establish their position on this topic??

Maybe we fret for nothing.

[htrdlncn]

I think you guys are going about it wrong,
I would be calling/sending letters to all the businesses affected in any way in Kingston
stating how sorry you are the run may not be held there any longer and how much you will
miss visiting and enjoying/spending money at their establishment.
I think couple hundred angry business owners showing up at a council meeting can be a way more powerful force than a small band of eco hippies.

[catastrophe]

I think you guys are going about it wrong,
I would be calling/sending letters to all the businesses affected in any way in Kingston
stating how sorry you are the run may not be held there any longer and how much you will
miss visiting and enjoying/spending money at their establishment.
I think couple hundred angry business owners showing up at a council meeting can be a way more powerful force than a small band of eco hippies.

AGREE 100%

[harhem]

For Immediate Release
Apr. 13, 2010, 10:39 a.m.

Public Asked To Weigh In On Poker Run & Sustainability


Kingston City Council will hold a public meeting to gauge community views regarding the cultural and social impacts of the Poker Run at 6 p.m. on Thursday, April 22, in Memorial Hall, City Hall, 216 Ontario St.

In February, City Council, acting on a report from the Kingston Environmental Advisory Forum (KEAF), passed a motion asking City staff to conduct a Your Opinion survey - now available at <http://www.cityofkingston.ca/pokerrun> - and hold a public meeting to gauge the impacts and community views regarding the Poker Run. The survey will remain active until April 30.

The annual Kingston-based Poker Run event is a power boat race which starts in Lake Ontario and continues down the St. Lawrence. It involves participants stopping at a number of the Thousand Islands to collect playing cards.

The Poker Run is a tourist draw and a popular spectator event - but it is also an event that a number of Kingstonians believe undermines the community's vision of Kingston as Canada's most sustainable city because of its impact on the environment.

The community's model of sustainability, found in the Sustainable Kingston plan (see <http://www.sustainablekingston.ca>), includes four pillars: cultural, economic, environmental and social, all of which were referenced in the February 2 Council motion.

"Council is clearly looking for direction from Kingstonians on this issue. The motion said that no one pillar of sustainability should be considered in isolation from other pillars. It also recognized that the Poker Run is just one of many Kingston-based events and that Council has no policy on evaluating events from an integrated sustainable perspective," says Paul MacLatchy, Director, Strategy, Communication and Environment.

The Council motion also requested that:

- the Kingston Economic Development Corporation (KEDCO) deliver a report on the economic impact of the Poker Run.

- that staff collect data on visitors and their economic impact during the 2010 Poker Run.

KEAF found that the total amount of CO2 produced by the annual Poker Run is in the range of 100 to 200 tonnes and compared that amount to the 122 tonnes produced by a Toronto-Vancouver round-trip flight on a Boeing 757 which produces 122 tonnes of CO2. KEAF noted that "The Poker Run without carbon offsets is damaging to a culture of Environmental Sustainability."

Verified carbon offset credits are available from a number of private sector and not-for-profit organizations for about $25 a tonne.

Plan to get there by bus: <http://www.cityofkingston.ca/tripplanner>

- 30 -

Media contact information:
Cindie Ashton, Communications Officer (613) 546-4291, ext. 3116 (cell 329-3462). Or call the City of Kingston's media hotline at 613-546-4291, ext. 2300.

[bluellama]

I have no desire to debate the inner workings of Kingston City Council, catch me on whatever dock we end up on this year in August, and I'll fill you in on a bunch more of their boneheaded barriers to Commerce, but the one question I do have is if verified carbon offsets are available for $25 a tonne, why does KEAF and the City pf Kingston want PRA to pay $10,000 to offset the supposed amount of CO2 produced?

[harhem]

The Poker Run is a go this year.. It looks like it is up to the next council to decide on what happens. Hopefully we will get a better council this year

[harhem]

OK - I have not posted lately. a few people running for council . There are a few new candiadates that appear to be for the Poker Run. I have had a chance to talk to a few of the candidates for Mayor. I have talked to the one where most people think will win reagrding some of the post here. Perhaps we can meet. I will see if he is available to talk to you guys.

[Clayfan]

We'll I tell you what, if Kingston does the wrong thing here and decides to "carbon tax" or have the event cancelled for the following years I'd be willing to bet there could be 2 or 3 Canadian Great Lakes Municipalities that would offer their waterfronts and Marinas as another home.

Nope, it would not be that great location and event as the 1000 Islands are but there is lots of other water to run in Ontario.

And lots of other Citys and Towns that have Marinas built with Federal $ back in the late 80's early 90's that are not full now. And everyone of those Municipalities are looking for revenue generating events to showcase their town.

I'll be 1st and offer Port Colborne, Ontario as an alternative. We could run from here to Buffalo, around Grand Island and return. The marina has more than enough room, the ramp is good, the Canal wall will allow for crane in boats and the Pavillion at the marina could hold the festivities.

Pick your weekend, and hope for a smooth Lake Erie!