Shorties: how do you know if they'll work

[boomer35]

what makes a boat a good canadate for shorties? ive got a 30" Cigarette Mystique, non stepped, and as most know only few were made, so research or past exp isnt telling me much. the boat has the notched transom, which from what i understand allows water to hit the props cleaner. Im wondering if there is anyway to know if trying shorties is worth it, i understand its a crap shoot, but is there anyway to tell that "yes, good chance it will help" or "no, no way"

[JRalston]

Ive been searching for the answer to that question for a while

[FastDonzi]

The faster the boat, the better they work. if you have a 65mph boat you may only get 1-3 mph, if you have a 80mph boat you may get 5-6mph. I don't know of any boats that got much more than that, but when you get that fast every mph is harder to get and Allot more $$$$$$. your best bet would be to try to find some to borrow and see the gains before spending all that dough....

[mikes280]

depends on the x- dimension of the boat on mine it did not help on most older straight bottom boats the x is low so there is a good chance it will , also you most likely will need more prop . If you run a 3 blade you may need a 4 and so on

[boomer35]

is there a difference in the imco -2 lower and the merc -2 lower?

[boomer35]

i guess thats what im asking, IMCO -2 lower vs. the Mercury Sportsmaster -2 lower

from what little ive read on OSO, if -2 lowers indeed help your boat, it sounds like the merc might help just a tad less

[Smitty]

They do not always work as expected and on my boat I lost 1-2 mph on top and harder to plane out.

Believe it ir not, sometimes more speed can be had by putting drives deeper in the water to increase leverage which gives bow lift and more speed.

Call Phil at Lipship and ask him what you should do. He will know what works and what doesn't .

[boomer35]

They do not always work as expected and on my boat I lost 1-2 mph on top and harder to plane out.

Believe it ir not, sometimes more speed can be had by putting drives deeper in the water to increase leverage which gives bow lift and more speed.

Call Phil at Lipship and ask him what you should do. He will know what works and what doesn't .

yea, thats what im thinking too, i just wonder with my boat, as few that were built if he has any experience with this one

[allicat38]

no to change the subject but did you change prop rotation. I am also curious about the shorties on the boat

[Uncle Dave]

i guess thats what im asking, IMCO -2 lower vs. the Mercury Sportsmaster -2 lower

from what little ive read on OSO, if -2 lowers indeed help your boat, it sounds like the merc might help just a tad less


I have both and I think the imco is worth 1-2mph over the sportmaster.
I tried them both on both boats and like the imco.


UD

[mikes280]

I have both and I think the imco is worth 1-2mph over the sportmaster.
I tried them both on both boats and like the imco.


UDdid you try cutting down the skag on the sportmaster to match the one on the imco. I have a sportmaster and i have heard what makes them slower is the longer skag

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The x has to be at least slightly higher for a shorty to work wonders. If the water is already passing above the side water intakes adding a shorty will help little. You have to look at the how fat the gears cases are near the top. If the shorty is dragging the fat part of the case through the water everything gained by raising prop shaft is negated by dragging the fat part in the water.

It is rarely a good idea to cut a skeg.

[Uncle Dave]

did you try cutting down the skag on the sportmaster to match the one on the imco. I have a sportmaster and i have heard what makes them slower is the longer skag

No I didn't try that.
I also didnt think Id invest in a newer lower only to slow down.

The next 10 years of beaching it will wear it down enough- Ill check back with you guys in a decade or so.

I retrofitted the 20.8 with an ITS system and the new drive and lower. Fully hydraulic to the helm - got to be one of the more expensive 20 foot boats out there- but damm it steers!

I bought the other boat with the ITS and a Teague platinum XR which came with the Imco lower.


UD

[mikes280]

The x has to be at least slightly higher for a shorty to work wonders. If the water is already passing above the side water intakes adding a shorty will help little. You have to look at the how fat the gears cases are near the top. If the shorty is dragging the fat part of the case through the water everything gained by raising prop shaft is negated by dragging the fat part in the water.

It is rarely a good idea to cut a skeg.the skeg on the sportmaster is 2 inches longer then any other bravo lower . might be needed on a cat but i see no advantage on a v , imco did not think it need to be that long

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

So did the skeg actually slow it down ? I doubt it.

[Geronimo36]

yea, thats what im thinking too, i just wonder with my boat, as few that were built if he has any experience with this one

I had the same questions when I raised my X.... So few boats and of the ones that existed, no one played around with the X much....

My drives were deep though.. I went from 7 1/2" propshaft depth to 5 1/2" propshaft depth and picked up 4 mph on top and 2-3 mph mid-range and surprisingly didn't have to reprop, which leads me to believe I could have went up higher.... If i had to do it all over again I think I would have went up another inch but I can't stand testing/tuning to get setup perfect so I took a conservative approach and I'm happy with the results...

If I were racing, who knows, I may have gone up 4" and spaced it to get it perfect but I don't have the time nor the patience!:ack2:

[NO MERCY]

what makes a boat a good canadate for shorties? ive got a 30" Cigarette Mystique, non stepped, and as most know only few were made, so research or past exp isnt telling me much. the boat has the notched transom, which from what i understand allows water to hit the props cleaner. Im wondering if there is anyway to know if trying shorties is worth it, i understand its a crap shoot, but is there anyway to tell that "yes, good chance it will help" or "no, no way"

Was talkin with a little blonde at Players last night... word is you've already got a 2" shorty. :bump:

[GENERAL LEE]

On the 30 Mystique non-stepped hull, if you're trying to cure the porpoise, you should try some different first. The shorties won't help that on your boat. The boat WMF breifly owned, was on our lake since new. They tried shorties, but new props were what cured the porpoise issue. I don't knwo if he sold the boat with the new props or not.

Shorties don't make much of a difference anyway from my own experience. I switched from standard length, to shorties on my 38 T/S back when I had it. It turned a few more rpms, but saw no gain in mph at all. After repropping & a few other tweaks, my boat still ran the exact same as it did with the standard length XR's.

[boomer35]

On the 30 Mystique non-stepped hull, if you're trying to cure the porpoise, you should try some different first. The shorties won't help that on your boat. The boat WMF breifly owned, was on our lake since new. They tried shorties, but new props were what cured the porpoise issue. I don't knwo if he sold the boat with the new props or not.

Shorties don't make much of a difference anyway from my own experience. I switched from standard length, to shorties on my 38 T/S back when I had it. It turned a few more rpms, but saw no gain in mph at all. After repropping & a few other tweaks, my boat still ran the exact same as it did with the standard length XR's.

great advice, who would know on your lake how WMF's boat ran with the shorties? i would love to get in touch with anyone involved

[GENERAL LEE]

great advice, who would know on your lake how WMF's boat ran with the shorties? i would love to get in touch with anyone involved

I'll see if I can find the guy that ordered the boat brand new up there this weekend, or at least try to find out how it rode. He's still around up there, but I have no idea where he hangs out.

[boomer35]

I'll see if I can find the guy that ordered the boat brand new up there this weekend, or at least try to find out how it rode. He's still around up there, but I have no idea where he hangs out.

ive already got XR uppers in really good shape, so i am thinking i am going to move to an XR lower. With the shorties essentially being an XR lower, i thought if they would increase speed, and not hurt control and handling, that the shorties would be my best bet

by going to an XR lower i'm thinking i can play with 5 and even 6 blade props to work on the minor porpuse issue

[WMF]

On the 30 Mystique non-stepped hull, if you're trying to cure the porpoise, you should try some different first. The shorties won't help that on your boat. The boat WMF breifly owned, was on our lake since new. They tried shorties, but new props were what cured the porpoise issue. I don't knwo if he sold the boat with the new props or not.

Shorties don't make much of a difference anyway from my own experience. I switched from standard length, to shorties on my 38 T/S back when I had it. It turned a few more rpms, but saw no gain in mph at all. After repropping & a few other tweaks, my boat still ran the exact same as it did with the standard length XR's.

Well that is somthing I did not know about my old boat before I bought it Brandon!! I switched the props to 28P Bravo 1 labbed finshed props, but the boat still porpoised, had to run with the tabs down most of the time, unless at top speed. I got used to it and it was never a problem.

[boomer35]

Well that is somthing I did not know about my old boat before I bought it Brandon!! I switched the props to 28P Bravo 1 labbed finshed props, but the boat still porpoised, had to run with the tabs down most of the time, unless at top speed. I got used to it and it was never a problem.

im thinking by going to an XR lower, and putting a 5 or 6 blade prop on with come cupping, i can eliminate the porpoise

[allicat38]

I bought WMFs cigarette. Im Listening for any info about the boat and what was tried. Whay props are you talking about on my mystique made it run the best General Lee

[boomer35]

I bought WMFs cigarette. Im Listening for any info about the boat and what was tried. Whay props are you talking about on my mystique made it run the best General Lee

hey alicat, still no prop testing, too cold, will let you know soon though

[allicat38]

Cool . I have been wondering how it was. Im getting the itch to go boat to go boating. I have to get my big boat ready first so i should start to get the cig ready in may sometime.

[GENERAL LEE]

I bought WMFs cigarette. Im Listening for any info about the boat and what was tried. Whay props are you talking about on my mystique made it run the best General Lee

I'll have to ask the guy that did the work if I can locate him. I know they weren't Herings, because that was back when they were a 6 month wait to get a set, and he didn't even own the boat that long, lol.

I'll try to find out all that I can. It just may take a little time, since I haven't seen the guy in a couple of years, and the salesman that sold it new hasn't worked there in a few years either. Sorry!

[mikes280]

So did the skeg actually slow it down ? I doubt it.i have read where the people that cut the SKEG picked up 2 to 3 mph over the stock skeg so i guess to them the answer is yes, and i can see how it would.

[GENERAL LEE]

i have read where the people that cut the SKEG picked up 2 to 3 mph over the stock skeg so i guess to them the answer is yes, and i can see how it would.


That would compromise the steering far more than what tiny, if any, amount of speed the boat would gain :willy_nilly:

[mikes280]

That would compromise the steering far more than what tiny, if any, amount of speed the boat would gain :willy_nilly:Ok guys go look at a sportmaster the skeg is 2 inches longer then any other bravo style lower out there imco included. If it was going to compromise the steering then why does imco make them shorter all i am saying is cut it to the same length as a standard drive. i have one and yes it is cut and no it did not hurt the steering. Now on a cat maybe , but people put imco lowers on them all the time so the shorter imco skeg must steer ok. Changing the skeg on the #6 did it hurt the steering, no and they are faster.If you don't believe me go to oso and do a search there are guys the have run both the imco and the sportmaster and before the shortened up the skeg on the sportmaster they were slower by at least 2mph . They made the skeg the same as the imco and they run about the same.

[WMF]

I'll have to ask the guy that did the work if I can locate him. I know they weren't Herings, because that was back when they were a 6 month wait to get a set, and he didn't even own the boat that long, lol.

I'll try to find out all that I can. It just may take a little time, since I haven't seen the guy in a couple of years, and the salesman that sold it new hasn't worked there in a few years either. Sorry!

When I got the boat it had 26p Bravo 1 props on it, not labbed. Props will not take the porpoise out of the Mystique as far as I know.

[GENERAL LEE]

Ok guys go look at a sportmaster the skeg is 2 inches longer then any other bravo style lower out there imco included. If it was going to compromise the steering then why does imco make them shorter all i am saying is cut it to the same length as a standard drive. i have one and yes it is cut and no it did not hurt the steering. Now on a cat maybe , but people put imco lowers on them all the time so the shorter imco skeg must steer ok. Changing the skeg on the #6 did it hurt the steering, no and they are faster.If you don't believe me go to oso and do a search there are guys the have run both the imco and the sportmaster and before the shortened up the skeg on the sportmaster they were slower by at least 2mph . They made the skeg the same as the imco and they run about the same.

You made it sound like you were just going to take a hacksaw to the drive, & cut off the lower 8 inches, which like many things I've read on the forums, wouldn't surprise me. I can see what you are talking about more clearly, after your comments above. There's no reason to freak out about it & assume no one believes you. I've had fast vee's with shorties, stardard lengths, & Alpha's to TRS, so I wouldn't comment if the cat I have was the only boat I'd ever experienced. No one cares enough about whether or not you gain the 2mph to get so defensive & rant about it. Good luck with whatever you guys try.

[GENERAL LEE]

When I got the boat it had 26p Bravo 1 props on it, not labbed. Props will not take the porpoise out of the Mystique as far as I know.

The props made a big difference on that boat when he changed them, and the majority of the change was that the porpoise was gone at most speeds. They were a 5 blade if I recall, because it wouldn't turn a 6 blade high enough. Did you try props when you owned it, or are you just guessing? Making boats run smoother & more stable, are a lot of what props are for beyond just top speed. It would help that boat a bunch, AND save the current owner some time & money by starting with the wheels before changing drives, etc. I saw it myself with that exact boat, or I wouldn't bring it up! :cheers2:

[VetteLT193]

I don't think shortys will help you. heavy flat bottom boat with a cabin is not really ideal for them. They are so popular now because of the step hulls. when a boat runs flat and has steps you don't kill efficiency like you do on a flat bottom boat. smaller boats that are light they work too, like Donzi classics, where there is no cabin and they can carry the bow well.

[mikes280]

You made it sound like you were just going to take a hacksaw to the drive, & cut off the lower 8 inches, which like many things I've read on the forums, wouldn't surprise me. I can see what you are talking about more clearly, after your comments above. There's no reason to freak out about it & assume no one believes you. I've had fast vee's with shorties, stardard lengths, & Alpha's to TRS, so I wouldn't comment if the cat I have was the only boat I'd ever experienced. No one cares enough about whether or not you gain the 2mph to get so defensive & rant about it. Good luck with whatever you guys try.i am really not being defensive at all i just wanted to make it clear what i was talking about. I could tell you and Merc thought i was some redneck in the back yard with a hack saw :eek: Redneck maybe, stupid i hope not.All is good and i will try not to rant:willy_nilly:

[GENERAL LEE]

i am really not being defensive at all i just wanted to make it clear what i was talking about. I could tell you and Merc thought i was some redneck in the back yard with a hack saw :eek: Redneck maybe, stupid i hope not.All is good and i will try not to rant:willy_nilly:

:cheers2:

[allicat38]

What ever information about my mystique that can be found would be great. Take any amount of time, when you here something about it pass it along thru email or forum.

Check out some pics of my cigarette 20 i had from 1994 to 2002.

[allicat38]

Ok Its Not working ill try later

[GENERAL LEE]

What ever information about my mystique that can be found would be great. Take any amount of time, when you here something about it pass it along thru email or forum.

Check out some pics of my cigarette 20 i had from 1994 to 2002.

I'll definitely find out all that I can about your boat as the season starts to pick up, & more of the people that know the boat since it was new start coming up & hanging out at the lake. I'll probably just PM the info to you, instead of having to "debate" every bit of info I'm able to dig up about your boat from the original owner & the others involved. I'll get the facts from his experience with dialing in the boat, so it won't be assumptions or 5th & 6th hand info that can easily be misquoted or misinterpreted. :cheers2:

[allicat38]

Sounds good General

Here is my 20 i had from 1994 to 2002. Anyone seen it around, I thought it went to Ocean City NJ aera

[GENERAL LEE]

Sounds good General

Here is my 20 i had from 1994 to 2002. Anyone seen it around, I thought it went to Ocean City NJ aera


That is a GREAT looking classic 20. Hopefully it still looks the same wherever it is today. :cheers2:

[boomer35]

I'll definitely find out all that I can about your boat as the season starts to pick up, & more of the people that know the boat since it was new start coming up & hanging out at the lake. I'll probably just PM the info to you, instead of having to "debate" every bit of info I'm able to dig up about your boat from the original owner & the others involved. I'll get the facts from his experience with dialing in the boat, so it won't be assumptions or 5th & 6th hand info that can easily be misquoted or misinterpreted. :cheers2:

i was reminded of this thread tonight, was the original owners name that you know Joe Reynolds?

[boomer35]

alicat- i spoke with the original owner of your boat, and the marina who sold it, and neither can remember any work being done, shorties or anything else