Phenomenon Update—New Props Coming

[Matt Trulio]

Spoke to Scott Barnhart of Copeland's Phenomenon yesterday, http://www.boats.com/boat-content/2010/03/speed-record-attempt-boat-waiting-for-new-props/.

Without question, this project is getting a lot of coverage. But even if it doesn't succeed in breaking the propeller-driven water-speed record (and honestly, I wouldn't know how to bet on this one), it's sure is fun to look at.

[cigdaze]

Good stuff. I love looking at that boat. We're anxiously awaiting the Kilos and the results. Best of luck to them.

So, I wonder what would cause a 1-inch ding on all four of the props. Set-up?

[LAriverratt]

Good stuff. I love looking at that boat. We're anxiously awaiting the Kilos and the results. Best of luck to them.

So, I wonder what would cause a 1-inch ding on all four of the props. Set-up?

prop shafts/mounting flexing ???? could they be touching while throttling up????

[cigdaze]

That was my first thought too - high load induced deflection. Interesting.
:)

[imco offshore]

I thought they were stagered ??

[phragle]

You'd think they would know better than to leave the swim ladder down....

[Slandrew]

I don't know 150mph is fast but they need 85mph more hope they do it looks like a huge effort!

[DollaBill]

I hope they do it, but 85 mph is not something you're getting out of props. Maybe another 20 or 30,000 hp. Give or take :)

[Wrinkleface]

Can't they just pick a new set up at West Marine????????????:leaving:

[Matt Trulio]

I know in this day and age, 150 mph on the water is not particularly impressive. But it's worth keeping in mind that it was the boat's first time in the water. Spooling it up and taking a 200-plus-mph run was not part of the plan that day.

For the record: It's not just that the boat needs to surpass Dave Villwock's mark of 220 mph in an Unlimited hydroplane, which is the record the Phenomenon group is shooting for. Based on a discussion I had with Scott Barnhart this morning for a story that will appear on Boats.com, they will have to sustain that speed for an entire kilometer, turn around and repeat (or surpass) that speed in the opposite direction—within three minutes of completing the first pass.

According to Barnhart, those are the rules that were explained to him by John Carbonell of Super Boat International, which is slated to host Kilo runs in Sarasota, Fla., on July 2. That's where the Phenomenon team is planning their attack on the record.

[Maximus]

Good stuff. I love looking at that boat. We're anxiously awaiting the Kilos and the results. Best of luck to them.

So, I wonder what would cause a 1-inch ding on all four of the props. Set-up?


Scott Barnhart explained that the "core" where the hydraulic cylindar rams mount collapsed/crushed, allowing a drive to alter position and props to touch on the port side.

Not sure Sarasota bay is where I would go for that particular record. After talking with Scott I hope they are able to get UIM to sanction the run with timing lights so they get all the glory they would be due if they are able to hold the #. A kilo run on stopwatches is just not credible at these speeds. You can figure 300+ feet a second you would have to have a very quick finger to be accurate.

Good luck to all and let us know if you need the Geico / Mewrcury Safety Rib as High speed safety support.

[mikes280]

I know in this day and age, 150 mph on the water is not particularly impressive. But it's worth keeping in mind that it was the boat's first time in the water. Spooling it up and taking a 200-plus-mph run was not part of the plan that day.

For the record: It's not just that the boat needs to surpass Dave Villwock's mark of 220 mph in an Unlimited hydroplane, which is the record the Phenomenon group is shooting for. Based on a discussion I had with Scott Barnhart this morning for a story that will appear on Boats.com, they will have to sustain that speed for an entire kilometer, turn around and repeat (or surpass) that speed in the opposite direction—within three minutes of completing the first pass.

.i have a ? i know the difference in a kilo record and how they get it but i see a ton of people referring to the Unlimited record as the fastest prop driven boat. This is just not true , on Nov 22 2009 the Top Fuel Hydro Problem Child ran and backed up a 1/4 mile pass of 264.82 mph, now i know you are going to say well that is not a kilo but it is still 40 mph faster then any other boat with a prop. No it is not a offshore type of boat but hay they don't run in big water for the kilo run either. So with this said just what is the fastest prop driven boat record?

[mikes280]

i would also like to say i wish the Phenomenon team the most , what they have built is truly one of the nicest boats i have ever seen or read about and i hope it does everything they set out to do with it . My last post is not to take anything away from them but to also give some credit to the guys that drive the 1/4 mile rockets.

[FastDonzi]

Heck Eddie Hill did 220+ 25 years ago, I think when dialed in the Phenom will exceed their expectations! it has the power to do it, they just need to find setup and conditions that suit it.

[mikes280]

Heck Eddie Hill did 220+ 25 years ago, I think when dialed in the Phenom will exceed their expectations! it has the power to do it, they just need to find setup and conditions that suit it.yep and we out ran him 8 times that year :driving:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Not sure Sarasota bay is where I would go for that particular record. After talking with Scott I hope they are able to get UIM to sanction the run with timing lights

I discussed the location with Al at the Miami Boat Show. My thoughts on it after Billy Mauff was explaining the cross winds when coming around the point in Sarasota had made me concerned for their safety.

I suggested LOTO, being as we have already seen cats exceeding the 200 mark there with no issues. Another spot would be North Carolina where other records have been broken.. Perhaps there is even a location out in Havasu ? I've never been there but calm water seems to always come to mind when I think of that place.

I don't see the UIM Sanctioning the SBI event without the APBA affiliation..

Then again, I would have never thought SBI would be racing together with OSS,:kiss: so I guess anything is possible...:cheers2:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Scott Barnhart explained that the "core" where the hydraulic cylindar rams mount collapsed/crushed, allowing a drive to alter position and props to touch on the port side.

I think with the amount of torque coming from those engines, it might not be a bad idea to build those areas up with carbon fiber. It will stiffen things right up !

[cigdaze]

Scott Barnhart explained that the "core" where the hydraulic cylindar rams mount collapsed/crushed, allowing a drive to alter position and props to touch on the port side.

Not sure Sarasota bay is where I would go for that particular record. After talking with Scott I hope they are able to get UIM to sanction the run with timing lights so they get all the glory they would be due if they are able to hold the #. A kilo run on stopwatches is just not credible at these speeds. You can figure 300+ feet a second you would have to have a very quick finger to be accurate.

Good luck to all and let us know if you need the Geico / Mewrcury Safety Rib as High speed safety support.

Thanks for the info, Marc. And I agree on Sarasota Bay in the summer.

[Maximus]

i have a ? i know the difference in a kilo record and how they get it but i see a ton of people referring to the Unlimited record as the fastest prop driven boat. This is just not true , on Nov 22 2009 the Top Fuel Hydro Problem Child ran and backed up a 1/4 mile pass of 264.82 mph, now i know you are going to say well that is not a kilo but it is still 40 mph faster then any other boat with a prop. No it is not a offshore type of boat but hay they don't run in big water for the kilo run either. So with this said just what is the fastest prop driven boat record?


PC is surley a fast boat and the drivers very skilled at piloting her and PC has clearly been the fastest. The difference is holding the #. Im fortunate to call Dave Villwock and Ken Warby friends and have spent a lot of time discussing their record's neither should be taken lightly. Once you get the boat up to the number the props are truly the only thing holding the boat in the water, take away the acceleration and she becomes more of a floating wing than a boat... the real challenge becomes holding the # at 190 to 200 or more for 20 to 25 seconds which can be a real handful and downright frightning depending on conditions. This is not taking anything away from PC and the big numbers they pull. I guess the question to ask is.. Has any one of these drag boats has ever attempted to run a flying kilometer ?

[Matt Trulio]

i have a ? i know the difference in a kilo record and how they get it but i see a ton of people referring to the Unlimited record as the fastest prop driven boat. This is just not true , on Nov 22 2009 the Top Fuel Hydro Problem Child ran and backed up a 1/4 mile pass of 264.82 mph, now i know you are going to say well that is not a kilo but it is still 40 mph faster then any other boat with a prop. No it is not a offshore type of boat but hay they don't run in big water for the kilo run either. So with this said just what is the fastest prop driven boat record?

Really good question, Mike.

With the exception of Ken Warby's 317 mph, which I doubt will be cracked anytime soon, there's nothing but argument about the propeller-driven water-speed record. The American Power Boat Association, which as you know is the domestic sanctioning body for UIM, has Dave Villwock as the record holder at 220 mph and change. That, according to Scott Barnhart, is the record Phenomenon is shooting for, which is no small feat to pull in back-to-back kilometer runs.

Maximus nailed it: Take nothing away from the drag boat guys, who I believe are as courageous as they are certifiable, they have posted some outrageous top speeds in a freakin' quarter mile. But the speed record, per and the APBA and, from what Barnhart tells me, SBI standard is a sustained average top speed over back-to-back kilometers.

Tim Sharkey's point, "I don't see the UIM Sanctioning the SBI event without the APBA affiliation," is correct.

[YoungPerformance]

Tim Sharkey's point, "I don't see the UIM Sanctioning the SBI event without the APBA affiliation," is correct.

Which is really a shame. Just think of what could be accomplished if everyone could check their egos at the door and come together for the sake of the sport
Eddie

[T2x]

i have a ? i know the difference in a kilo record and how they get it but i see a ton of people referring to the Unlimited record as the fastest prop driven boat. This is just not true , on Nov 22 2009 the Top Fuel Hydro Problem Child ran and backed up a 1/4 mile pass of 264.82 mph, now i know you are going to say well that is not a kilo but it is still 40 mph faster then any other boat with a prop. No it is not a offshore type of boat but hay they don't run in big water for the kilo run either. So with this said just what is the fastest prop driven boat record?

World speed records have always been conducted on a 2 way "flying" (wide open at start and finish) mile or a flying kilo course. While drag boats do go very fast, they do so in spurts and the engines frequently blow up before, during, or after a run. I don't doubt that they can run over 220....but can they maintain that speed long enough to set a true World speed record? In point of fact I believe they can....but with lower, more sustainable power.....

This is serious stuff and many people have been injured or killed in the pursuit of boat racing's holy grail. Let's not compromise the rules long after so many, from Gar Wood to Ken Warby to Dave Vilwock, have risked so much to set the bar. The inclusion of short bursts, or GPS speeds does not belong in this conversation IMHO.

[T2x]

Which is really a shame. Just think of what could be accomplished if everyone could check their egos at the door and come together for the sake of the sport
Eddie


Or to put it more clearly....just look at all the damage that has been done, and the opportunities that have been wasted, by the years of ignorance, greed and egotistical nonsense.

[T2x]

I don't see the UIM Sanctioning the SBI event without the APBA affiliation..


I wonder how long an SBI Kilo is?........ and how much per yard it costs to reduce that length?

T2x

[cigdaze]

Since we're on the subject, I'm curious.

How exactly is the speed verified at a UIM kilo? Is it calculated distance/time, or do they use some kind of laser and/or radar device at the end? If it's the former, how do you precisely measure exactly 1km on the water? Laser range-finder? Surely not GPS, I hope. What's used to mark the start and stop? Buoys that drift and wobble? Land-based positions? And how does one ensure that a timing devices triggers exactly when a boat enters the kilo and exits the kilo? And who certifies/calibrates the devices in question?

[Steve 1]

Problem Child the Top Fuel record holder ran 265 MPH in a quarter mile, I guess @ 10 more seconds at that speed to cover the rest of the mile.

[waterboy222]

Problem Child the Top Fuel record holder ran 265 MPH in a quarter mile, I guess @ 10 more seconds at that speed to cover the rest of the mile.

Could it have ran another 10 seconds though?

[Sea-Dated]

Could it have ran another 10 seconds though?

Doubtful

[mikes280]

ok folks i am not taking anything away from these speed records, bottom line every sanction body has there way to determind if a record is a record, so to say having to run 2 passes within 1 % in a single event is not as good as having to do 2 passes each way. That is the way that body looks at it and 1 body is not the only way for a record to happen. In drag boats there is no way a run can be done in 3 min. Yes sometimes the do blow up it has nothing to do with it. Running 220 in a 40 or 50 ft boat is a hand full but running 260 in a 20 ft boat is also a hand full so they both have their records. But the fastest PROP DRIVEN pass is 260 +. PS my typing skills suck so please don't take this the wrong way, i will be watching for them to run and i wish them the best , a safe and fast run over 220 .

[Matt Trulio]

Since we're on the subject, I'm curious.

How exactly is the speed verified at a UIM kilo? Is it calculated distance/time, or do they use some kind of laser and/or radar device at the end? If it's the former, how do you precisely measure exactly 1km on the water? Laser range-finder? Surely not GPS, I hope. What's used to mark the start and stop? Buoys that drift and wobble? Land-based positions? And how does one ensure that a timing devices triggers exactly when a boat enters the kilo and exits the kilo? And who certifies/calibrates the devices in question?

Hey Cig,

I believe it's done by laser-range finder. Who calibrates and certifies? That would have to be one within the sanctioning body.

Mike,

Your point is reasonable, but since Phenomenon is not a drag boat it makes better sense that they would chase a two-way kilo record (flying start, as T2X points out, which I believe is a mile run-up, although why the run-up is a mile and the actual run itself is a kilometer mystifies me).

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

why the run-up is a mile and the actual run itself is a kilometer mystifies me).
:rofl: . :rofl: . :rofl:

[Maximus]

Problem Child the Top Fuel record holder ran 265 MPH in a quarter mile, I guess @ 10 more seconds at that speed to cover the rest of the mile.

Then turn around in three min and run back (wind tides ect). Remember 10 seconds is an eternity in the cockpit at those speeds

The drag boat guys are a special breed very similar to our own adrenilin junkies

The Timing lights used in crecent city required underwater cables

I believe the UIM "Offshore" boat kilo record is 188MPH.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Then turn around in three min and run back (wind tides ect). Remember 10 seconds is an eternity in the cockpit at those speeds
But just think of how much distance you cover in those 10 seconds.... :cheers2:

[rchevelle71]

Hey Cig,

I believe it's done by laser-range finder. Who calibrates and certifies? That would have to be one within the sanctioning body.

Mike,

Your point is reasonable, but since Phenomenon is not a drag boat it makes better sense that they would chase a two-way kilo record (flying start, as T2X points out, which I believe is a mile run-up, although why the run-up is a mile and the actual run itself is a kilometer mystifies me).

Why do American cars have metric bolts???:leaving:

[Coolerman]

Do all of the sactioning bodies have the same length kilo? :bump::smash:

[T2x]

What is a kilo of "Columbian Gold" worth these days?

[Steve 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGoXwzHtjeM&feature=related

[mikes280]

Then turn around in three min and run back (wind tides ect). .
ok 2 ways to look at that a drag boat racer would say then do it in a 1/4 mile from a standing start.:driving::cheers2:

[mikes280]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGoXwzHtjeM&feature=relatedand folks there you have the fastest prop driven boat in the world :driving:

[Slandrew]

What is a kilo of "Columbian Gold" worth these days?

About 5k:rolleyes:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

I wonder how long an SBI Kilo is?........ and how much per yard it costs to reduce that length?

T2xNow you got me thinking that the Fountain Vee Bottom Record might not be legit..... :eek: :rofl:

[Slandrew]

Now you got me thinking that the Fountain Vee Bottom Record might not be legit..... :eek: :rofl:Which one:bump:

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Which one:bump:
:rofl::rofl:

[mikes280]

Now you got me thinking that the Fountain Vee Bottom Record might not be legit..... :eek: :rofl:can't answer that but i can tell you it was hauling the mail , i was there.:driving:

[Slandrew]

Off topic!

[lindeman]

Since we're on the subject, I'm curious.

How exactly is the speed verified at a UIM kilo? Is it calculated distance/time, or do they use some kind of laser and/or radar device at the end? If it's the former, how do you precisely measure exactly 1km on the water? Laser range-finder? Surely not GPS, I hope. What's used to mark the start and stop? Buoys that drift and wobble? Land-based positions? And how does one ensure that a timing devices triggers exactly when a boat enters the kilo and exits the kilo? And who certifies/calibrates the devices in question?

Just looked at the UIM §60x and §610 rules:
§604.02: ...
The base must be measured by triangulation or electronic distance
measuring equipment (EDM), which must have a first class certificate
delivered by an Observatory or similar authority. This certificate must not
be older than two years.
...
§610.01 Distance: 1 nautical mile, 1 Statute mile or 1 kilometer
§610.04 Timing: Above 200 kph timing
is to be by photoelectrical or similar apparatus to one hundredth of a
second.
§610.04: Interval: The time elapsing between the two runs must not exceed 20 minutes
except for jet attempts, when the permitted interval is one hour.


Morten

[T2x]

Now you got me thinking

Good...the therapy is obviously working.

[cigdaze]

Just looked at the UIM §60x and §610 rules:
§604.02: ...
The base must be measured by triangulation or electronic distance
measuring equipment (EDM), which must have a first class certificate
delivered by an Observatory or similar authority. This certificate must not
be older than two years.
...
§610.01 Distance: 1 nautical mile, 1 Statute mile or 1 kilometer
§610.04 Timing: Above 200 kph timing
is to be by photoelectrical or similar apparatus to one hundredth of a
second.
§610.04: Interval: The time elapsing between the two runs must not exceed 20 minutes
except for jet attempts, when the permitted interval is one hour.


Morten
Many thanks Morten.

[Brownie]

Kiekhaefer's timing set was old, but great. Some WW1 artillery stuff, I think. They tape measured the distance, and set up one the devices at each end. A man rotated the sight to the boat coming down the course, and when it was at the staring line, the sight touched a switch which started and electric timer. The finish guy started tracking the boat when it came into view, and tracked it to the end, where a similar switch stopped the timer. If the guys were honest, the timing was perfect.

[KiloKat]

Do all of the sactioning bodies have the same length kilo?

My understanding is that they do. I can tell you to get a kilo course sanctioned by the APBA is both time consuming and very costly. I had one approved for LOTO and it was a task I wouldn't assume again. First contacted a certified surveyor whose name was provided by somone at Missouri's state capital; then paid him to survey a sanctioned kilo course per APBA's written instructions. It took him countless days to survey, drive his metal pins in the rock bed, draw up a plat of the course and then submit it to APBA for approval. And, this was just to get a course approved. The cost to actually hold a sanctioned event only goes up from there ...

[DollaBill]

Now you got me thinking that the Fountain Vee Bottom Record might not be legit..... :eek: :rofl:

I was there for 3 days. I mean right there. In the race shop with Reggie and Ben and David, Martin etc. I was there the night before the official run for the test run (150 plus). I was right there in the middle of the "course" when they came by at friggin blistering speeds and I was there at the dock when Reggie got back and I was there to see GPS numbers and talk to him and Ben when they got off the boat. The boat saw 183 outside of the official run.

I know some of you feel differently but I say 183 is the number, not 177 etc. Anyway, my .02

[DollaBill]

About 5k:rolleyes:

You're off a bit LOL

[T2x]

I was there for 3 days. I mean right there. In the race shop with Reggie and Ben and David, Martin etc. I was there the night before the official run for the test run (150 plus). I was right there in the middle of the "course" when they came by at friggin blistering speeds and I was there at the dock when Reggie got back and I was there to see GPS numbers and talk to him and Ben when they got off the boat. The boat saw 183 outside of the official run.

I know some of you feel differently but I say 183 is the number, not 177 etc. Anyway, my .02

Okay...so you are saying that based on GPS readings....World Speed records should be set? In that case I humbly submit the attached ( photo taken in my 28 foot Skater with twin 300x Mercury's) as my basis for claiming the World Propeller Driven and Overall Water Speed Records.

Please send my trophy, check and official certificate when you get a moment.

Thank you,

T2x

[T2x]

My understanding is that they do. I can tell you to get a kilo course sanctioned by the APBA is both time consuming and very costly. I had one approved for LOTO and it was a task I wouldn't assume again. First contacted a certified surveyor whose name was provided by somone at Missouri's state capital; then paid him to survey a sanctioned kilo course per APBA's written instructions. It took him countless days to survey, drive his metal pins in the rock bed, draw up a plat of the course and then submit it to APBA for approval. And, this was just to get a course approved. The cost to actually hold a sanctioned event only goes up from there ...

Agreed....There have a been a number of extensively surveyed courses using the APBA/UIM procedures including Norristown PA, Guntersville Al, and others. As a matter of fact I think Sarasota was surveyed ....by the APBA...... in past years. The APBA/UIM also insisted that closed circle courses be surveyed to establish competition records for both heat races and multi hour marathons. Up until the break up of the sanctioning bodies this all was taken very seriously and you could bet on the accuracy of the records. Today I'm afraid there have been records set on courses that are little more than the result of putting a timimg light "over here" and another one "over there".....

If I were the Phenomenon team I would attempt to set any records only on an APBA-UIM approved course, to avoid any questions in anyone's mind. All Of Al Copeland Senior's previous speed marks were set that way.

T2x

[Knot 4 Me]

Okay...so you are saying that based on GPS readings....World Speed records should be set? In that case I humbly submit the attached ( photo taken in my 28 foot Skater with twin 300x Mercury's) as my basis for claiming the World Propeller Driven and Overall Water Speed Records.

Please send my trophy, check and official certificate when you get a moment.

Thank you,

T2xI'd say you have her "dialed in"! :sifone:

[DollaBill]

Okay...so you are saying that based on GPS readings....World Speed records should be set? In that case I humbly submit the attached ( photo taken in my 28 foot Skater with twin 300x Mercury's) as my basis for claiming the World Propeller Driven and Overall Water Speed Records.

Please send my trophy, check and official certificate when you get a moment.

Thank you,

T2x

Totally disagree and not getting into it with you. I stand firm on my position. And yes, I believe kilos are total BS for speed records. How fast has the boat EVER achieved if only for 1/1oth of a second. Thats the number

[KiloKat]

If I were the Phenomenon team I would attempt to set any records only on an APBA-UIM approved course, to avoid any questions in anyone's mind.

Absolutely!

[Maximus]

If I were the Phenomenon team I would attempt to set any records only on an APBA-UIM approved course, to avoid any questions in anyone's mind. All Of Al Copeland Senior's previous speed marks were set that way.

T2x[/QUOTE]


agreed . I told him (Scott barnhardt) this in no uncertain terms

[Flat Rate]

Now you got me thinking that the Fountain Vee Bottom Record might not be legit..... :eek: :rofl:

The Foutain record is UIM APBA certified.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

The Foutain record is UIM APBA certified.
I suppose this could be true providing that the APBA Sanctioning deal with SBI was paid in full.... ??? :confused:

[cigdaze]

My understanding is that they do. I can tell you to get a kilo course sanctioned by the APBA is both time consuming and very costly. I had one approved for LOTO and it was a task I wouldn't assume again. First contacted a certified surveyor whose name was provided by somone at Missouri's state capital; then paid him to survey a sanctioned kilo course per APBA's written instructions. It took him countless days to survey, drive his metal pins in the rock bed, draw up a plat of the course and then submit it to APBA for approval. And, this was just to get a course approved. The cost to actually hold a sanctioned event only goes up from there ...




Agreed....There have a been a number of extensively surveyed courses using the APBA/UIM procedures including Norristown PA, Guntersville Al, and others. As a matter of fact I think Sarasota was surveyed ....by the APBA...... in past years. The APBA/UIM also insisted that closed circle courses be surveyed to establish competition records for both heat races and multi hour marathons. Up until the break up of the sanctioning bodies this all was taken very seriously and you could bet on the accuracy of the records. Today I'm afraid there have been records set on courses that are little more than the result of putting a timimg light "over here" and another one "over there".....

If I were the Phenomenon team I would attempt to set any records only on an APBA-UIM approved course, to avoid any questions in anyone's mind. All Of Al Copeland Senior's previous speed marks were set that way.

T2x

Thanks so much fellas! Great info.
:)

[cigdaze]

Thank you,

T2x

391. You win.

[T2x]

391. You win.


Okay...I am changing my signature to reflect this.

Please note: This is not to be confused with any other "Exagerated" records currently recognized.

T2x

______________________________________
Holder of the Exagerated World's GPS Water Speed Record(EWGWSR)@391 MPH

[cigdaze]

Beautiful. Not bad for a small, twin outboard cat.
Similarly, I believe I have the fastest stock-powered, no-step resin bucket. I regularly see GPS speeds of 140-150mph. Garmin don't lie.

[Bigyellowcat]

391. You win.

Max speed.... 1292 Mph.... I win.. where do I get my trophy?

[7xchamp]

Spoke to Scott Barnhart of Copeland's Phenomenon yesterday, http://www.boats.com/boat-content/2010/03/speed-record-attempt-boat-waiting-for-new-props/.

Without question, this project is getting a lot of coverage. But even if it doesn't succeed in breaking the propeller-driven water-speed record (and honestly, I wouldn't know how to bet on this one), it's sure is fun to look at.

I just read this post and will add my stories: I hold two official UIM world kilo records with Tom Gentry both in 1994. One was set in Vilejo Calif. in a 42` super V Scarab with triple Gentry turbo. motors: average speed two way run in measured documented kilo was 126.38 mph. The other record was set in Coronado bay, San Diego was in the 40` Skater UIM class 1 with an average speed of 157.428 mph. The UIM gave us official hand painted certificates that have all record holder names written around the edge, as well as a picture of the boat running. If you have never seen one of these certificates it is to bad as they are works of art, and very pretigious in that they recognize you as actually being certified as the fastest in the world.I wish Scott and Al jr. all the best, Scott was my crew chief when racing with Don Johnson team USA, and Al jr. was in the rear seat when I won the APBA US1 championship with Al sr. in 1988. Brownie is correct with the Kiekhaefer timming equip. surveying of the course etc. I will ad that there had to be officials from UIM and APBA to certify the records, I think we had a credible guy from APBA by the name of Bob Teague, so if any body was in doubt, they could take it up with Bob. Finally there is no other feeling in the world than going into the unknown and conquering it, and to be the only ones in the world to do so. Deepest regards to all who have been there, it`s an elite group to say the least, and remember the fastest in the entire world recorded. I have many hair raising stories about setting up and testing to set world speed records. In 1994 we were prepared to set the world super boat record in the same UIM class 1 skater: we had tested the boat at speeds over 180 mph. This all done in 1994, before dry sump drives etc. as I said many stories.

[imco offshore]

Can I ask,, do All the world record holders in the past 5 years ,that ran under apba/uim have these hand painted certificates,??? I,v seen some kilos run and records broke,,but haven,t seen none of them ,,??? I haven,t seen any new kilo records in the apba record book for some time now..?? Am i looking in the wrong place,?

[FastDonzi]

Richie (7XChamp) Tell More, Allot of people on here wouldn't know anything about those times without the stories from the Icons:cheers2: Maybe you and Brownie and T2x etc should collaborate on a book.

[MarylandMark]

Richie (7XChamp) Tell More, Allot of people on here wouldn't know anything about those times without the stories from the Icons:cheers2: Maybe you and Brownie and T2x etc should collaborate on a book.

:iagree:

[Maximus]

Can I ask,, do All the world record holders in the past 5 years ,that ran under apba/uim have these hand painted certificates,??? I,v seen some kilos run and records broke,,but haven,t seen none of them ,,??? I haven,t seen any new kilo records in the apba record book for some time now..?? Am i looking in the wrong place,?

other than Crecent City AMF (2006). I'm not aware of any other UIM certified runs for offshore. Anybody? unless the fee was paid to UIM they were not certified. Not to say they are not real. I know Popra did the last real "timing light runs" in the Salton Sea but unfortunatly political games let a lot of hard work struggle to be recognized by the world boat racing comunity.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

In my opinion, if an organizatiion makes a 5 year deal to be officially sanctioned by the APBA/UIM and fails to live up to the Contract and /or not make the agreed payments to the APBA/UIM, I would think any records would be null and void. Receiving an embroided jacket stating Record Holder or Hall of Champion I would not think constitutes the "Official" record being documented into the APBA/UIM records. Hopefully this is not the case and people that think they achieved records will receive the same certificates as 7xchamp.

This appears to be how it is officially done:


The UIM gave us official hand painted certificates that have all record holder names written around the edge, as well as a picture of the boat running. If you have never seen one of these certificates it is to bad as they are works of art, and very pretigious in that they recognize you as actually being certified as the fastest in the world.


7xchamp,

Congrats on all of your official accomplishments and hard work that went into doing it right.

Welcome to Serious Offshore.

[Steve 1]

Anglo and myself used to spy on Richie's race operation down the street from our rigging shop, Way Cool light years ahead of anyone in those days,I will put it this way, he was the one to emulate period!

[7xchamp]

other than Crecent City AMF (2006). I'm not aware of any other UIM certified runs for offshore. Anybody? unless the fee was paid to UIM they were not certified. Not to say they are not real. I know Popra did the last real "timing light runs" in the Salton Sea but unfortunatly political games let a lot of hard work struggle to be recognized by the world boat racing comunity.

Just to clarify: When Tom Gentry wanted to set the World records, he went to the ultimate governing body which was UIM. He had to have permission and sanction granted by the national body which was APBA, that`s the way it always worked when we were racing back in the day. I have won four UIM world titles, all back to back, and at the time those were considered the real world championships, as you raced in all different countries, against the best in the world, and in there home waters, Sorry of the subject!!!!!!! When we did the Kilo runs, Tom Gentry paid for everything out of his own pocket, and I would say that at the time 1994 the cost was close to $150,000 all said and done, he had to pay for all the UIM representatives and officials to come to America, as well as all APBA fee`s and officials expense and UIM fee`s etc. It was very costly, but that`s what it took at the time to accomplish what we did. One great thing that Gentry did , was to make sure that everyone knew when and where the runs were going to take place, and he made a point of inviting anyone who wanted to contend for the record, several people took advantage to set world records, Nigel Hook for one, and did set a record, and also crashed on one of his first attempts, along with Craig Archer. As for the Certiicates, I believe those were part of the package, and the certificate of recognition for the record. Another note, is that the boat had to have been a qualified legal race boat that competed on the national cercuit, and finished amongst the top three in class in at least three races. At the time same rule applied to be eligible to run in the world championships, which used to be staged around the world in different countries, in the three race series format, I ran in four of those, Mar Del Plata, Buenos Aires. Venice Italy, Melbourne Australia, and Key West. In the day when I raced the UIM circuit we used to run approx. 15 to twenty races in the season, all races were required to be minimum length of 185 Nautical miles, which meant they were usually 220 statute miles. We raced for three separate titles, European championship, Italian Championship, and South American championships, as well as the biggie UIM, all open class. Many times we would race ie: Italy to Croatia on Sat. for UIM with our best boat, then race back same course in second boat for Italian and European championship points, so roughly 440 miles on a weekend, in two separate boats, then race again in another country the next weekend. I generally worked three to four months straight without a day off, It was gruelling, and we raced in the open oceans of the world, many times out of site of land for hours. Again sorry for getting of the subject. Tom Gentry was one of the greatest people in the world with everything in life, and his racing endeavors were always first class, I miss him desperatly.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

and that folks, is all we are left to dream about ! 7xchamp, that is simply incredible. I do not think many had any idea. Including myself...
Congrats once again !!! :cheers2:

[MarylandMark]

:iagree: keep the stories coming!

[Pismo10]

Tom Gentry was cool....

[RACESDAD]

Just to clarify: When Tom Gentry wanted to set the World records, he went to the ultimate governing body which was UIM. He had to have permission and sanction granted by the national body which was APBA, that`s the way it always worked when we were racing back in the day. I have won four UIM world titles, all back to back, and at the time those were considered the real world championships, as you raced in all different countries, against the best in the world, and in there home waters, Sorry of the subject!!!!!!! When we did the Kilo runs, Tom Gentry paid for everything out of his own pocket, and I would say that at the time 1994 the cost was close to $150,000 all said and done, he had to pay for all the UIM representatives and officials to come to America, as well as all APBA fee`s and officials expense and UIM fee`s etc. It was very costly, but that`s what it took at the time to accomplish what we did. One great thing that Gentry did , was to make sure that everyone knew when and where the runs were going to take place, and he made a point of inviting anyone who wanted to contend for the record, several people took advantage to set world records, Nigel Hook for one, and did set a record, and also crashed on one of his first attempts, along with Craig Archer. As for the Certiicates, I believe those were part of the package, and the certificate of recognition for the record. Another note, is that the boat had to have been a qualified legal race boat that competed on the national cercuit, and finished amongst the top three in class in at least three races. At the time same rule applied to be eligible to run in the world championships, which used to be staged around the world in different countries, in the three race series format, I ran in four of those, Mar Del Plata, Buenos Aires. Venice Italy, Melbourne Australia, and Key West. In the day when I raced the UIM circuit we used to run approx. 15 to twenty races in the season, all races were required to be minimum length of 185 Nautical miles, which meant they were usually 220 statute miles. We raced for three separate titles, European championship, Italian Championship, and South American championships, as well as the biggie UIM, all open class. Many times we would race ie: Italy to Croatia on Sat. for UIM with our best boat, then race back same course in second boat for Italian and European championship points, so roughly 440 miles on a weekend, in two separate boats, then race again in another country the next weekend. I generally worked three to four months straight without a day off, It was gruelling, and we raced in the open oceans of the world, many times out of site of land for hours. Again sorry for getting of the subject. Tom Gentry was one of the greatest people in the world with everything in life, and his racing endeavors were always first class, I miss him desperatly.

We will never see those great times again. Growing up in the 70's and 80's and reading about all these great guys then getting to race near them or better yet with some of them. YOU GUYS ROCK
rest in peace Tom. Mark , and all the others who left too soon

[Slandrew]

Tom Gentry was cool....

He was cool:cheers2:

[T2x]

Can I ask,, do All the world record holders in the past 5 years ,that ran under apba/uim have these hand painted certificates,??? I,v seen some kilos run and records broke,,but haven,t seen none of them ,,??? I haven,t seen any new kilo records in the apba record book for some time now..?? Am i looking in the wrong place,?

I believe...and I may be wrong...that the only UIM recognized record classes are those designated as "National" Classes, therefore local classes would not be eligible. That having been said, I am unsure what, if any, classes are currently designated as National or local and/or eligible for records......... Maybe the lack of records recently has something to do with the fact that the classes are too plentiful and undefined.

T2x

[DONZI]

I wondered if they considered this location also -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa2Hq0WjHic

[7xchamp]

I believe...and I may be wrong...that the only UIM recognized record classes are those designated as "National" Classes, therefore local classes would not be eligible. That having been said, I am unsure what, if any, classes are currently designated as National or local and/or eligible for records......... Maybe the lack of records recently has something to do with the fact that the classes are too plentiful and undefined.

T2x

Correct: UIM only recognizes national and UIM european affiliates classes. That`s why we had to go to such lengths for the open class record, since we ran the turbo motors we were penalized due to the 1.4 rule. UIM and open class boats were allowed 1,000 inches, 500 inches each, since we ran turbos in the class we had to run destroked big blocks down to I think 358 cu in, or 338, cant remeber, I think 358. We turned the motors 8,500 and pulled 60 inches of mercury, or roughly 18 lbs of boost, HP was approx. 1,100 each. We actually had telemetry on the big boat, and the engineer ( Larry ) could dial in boost and spark as we were doing our runs, Talk about weird sensations, runnining 160 mph and watching the gauges move around to near overheat to less RPM while the sticks were burried. The wiring harnesses for the boat were $75,000 to enable the telemetry. As I said it cost a lot of money in development, setup, and actual staging. The superboat V record was also official and recognized by the UIM as an official APBA class, same as four engine superboat which Gentry and John Connor set at 148 mph. I can`t believe you have not seen a UIM certificate I have described, If I can figure out how I will try and show it here.

[Ron P]

Anyone remember when Planetman set the SBI speed record in Barnegat Bay at like 177 or something? SBI used two boats anchored in the middle of the bay with stop watches.

Here he comes....ready....mark!

Gotta love it. I think he paid some good money to SBI for that "Record".

[lindeman]

Correct: UIM only recognizes national and UIM european affiliates classes. .....

UIM actually recognizes:

"- All U.I.M. series and classes
- American Powerboat Association classes
- Prototypes"

This will definitely go under the prototypes definition. But - as previously posted elsewhere, you will have to look at UIM rules §6xx


Morten

[afr]

subscribed



good luck boys

[afr]

i thought i would share this video it exsplains the timming rules in depth
theres two parts to the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI9zRXmowO8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yr7F2uSOU8&NR=1

[DAREDEVIL]

Anyone remember when Planetman set the SBI speed record in Barnegat Bay at like 177 or something? SBI used two boats anchored in the middle of the bay with stop watches.

Here he comes....ready....mark!

Gotta love it. I think he paid some good money to SBI for that "Record".

Just because...why are u always bashing SBI ???

To funny,,,tell the story u had the meeting in KW and JC walked in ..lol:rolleyes:

[customryder]

how fast?

[KiloKat]

Heard Phenomenon is coming to the LOTO Shootout this year. Should be a great event with Aquamania & JBS coming also! :hurray:

[ILMORdude]

Heard Phenomenon is coming to the LOTO Shootout this year. Should be a great event with Aquamania & JBS coming also! :hurray:

Alcohol V-8's > Turbines
:driving:

Should be the best Shootout EVER!!!

[Quinlan]

Great news!
Now about them Geico boys? :driving:

[afr]

when is the loto shoot out this year

[Underdog88]

Last week in Aug

http://www.lakeoftheozarksshootout.org/index.html

[afr]

Great news!
Now about them Geico boys? :driving:

are they going to drive for the them