Health Care Summit

[Chris]

I was on the road this week- had the opportunity Thursday to hear most of the summit. Pretty interesting stuff ;)

As I'm listening, I started wondering about a few things. Maybe some of you can share perspectives on this.

1. When did health care become a right? Is it a Constitutionally guaranteed right or a basic human right? And if it is in fact a right, isn't it then the responsibility of our government to provide it, not an employer?

Most employers provide health care coverage for two reasons. The first is that it helps attract and retain valuable employees. The second is that healthy employees- and employees without significant distraction brought on by a falily illness are much more productive employees. But now something that's been a good idea and good business is now the birthright of every inhabitant (notice I didn't say "citizen") of the U.S.?

2. Why is basic, high-deductible insurance a bad thing?

Low deductible health insurance isn't health insurance. It's a health maintenance agreement. Low deductible means that I'm going to spend the money, but I'm going to send that money first to an insurance company to make those payments for me. And I've run the numbers- a $10K deductible family policy costs about $800 a month less than a $250 deductible policy. Seems like a good bet- if I don't use it, I'm up $10K. And if I do use it, I'm spending the money I'd have spent anyway.

Why is it that as an employer I should be compelled to meet the comprehensive health needs of everyone I employ- and their family? Which leads me to my next point...

3. When will anyone start talking about the health care repsonsibility of the insured?

Isn't one of our biggest challenges the demand on our health care system? When comparing our health care system to the rest of the world, we never speak about the relative health of our citizens. Obesity is rampant in this country. Many millions of our citizens smoke, drink and eat poorly. Our illness and mortality statistics are top-heavy with heart and lung diseases, cancer, diabetes, etc. If we really had any concern as a people about health care- or health in general, wouldn't this be the place to start? And if health care really is a right, when do we start hearing about the ban on cigarettes, alcohol and fatty foods?

4. Somewhat off topic, but is this really the time to be doing this?

This issue has been around for a long time. Is talking about adding to the load of the average American business really going to help turn a recession around?

[MarylandMark]

ban on cigarettes, alcohol and fatty foods?

Bite your tongue!

[CRC]

ban on alcohol and fatty foods?


Hey, them's fightin' words!::toetap05::smash::boxing_smiley:

[MarylandMark]

Health care IMHO is broken, however the proposed "fixes" will break it more than it already is.

I'm not a fan of mandates but since those that aren't covered costs us that are covered, everyone should be mandated to have some coverage. Not a runny nose but for a helo to the ER or some thing like that, the big stuff. Like point #2, you put up the first $10K and then the insurance covers the rest or some thing along those lines. That or have a microchip implanted that you waive coverage and some thing happens to you, you're on your own/no treatment/die/whatever; just not going to cost ME money.

I keep high deductibles on every thing I have to keep the cost down. Home? I'm not making an insurance claim if my power goes out and the stuff in my freezer goes bad anyway. If my house burns down and they take 5% out of the claim for my higher deductible it's not that big of a deal, especially since I have adequate covered. Truck? $1K vs $500 deductible, savings of the $500 deductible difference in about 18 months so every day after I'm not in an accident I'm saving money. Back to adequate coverage-I run agreed value on most things so if some thing does go wrong, I'm more than covered. Same standard should be for health care, if you are higher risk for some things- say smoke and eat McDonald's every day- then you should be held accountable for a higher cost, like instead of $10K make it $50K.

Responsibility of the insured? Like a points system on a drivers license would be my vote. You smoke, minus 1. You log 500 miles a year on your treadmill, plus 1. You drink, pour me one for me as well, I mean minus 1. Get a check up twice a year, you have preventable issues and don't take of them then your points are adjusted accordingly. Fuzzy here- not sure where to draw the line on what is preventable or not but eating McDonald's and smoking 3 packs a day puts you in the negative. But if you get Lyme Disease, should points be deducted because you go hiking in the woods every day and a tick bit you? I'm not sure how to do this one, just know there should be rewards for good health habits. You don't get speeding tickets, you car insurance doesn't go up. You don't smoke, your life insurance doesn't go up.

Point 4- The dumb dumbs in DC don't realize that a lot of business are just trying to keep the doors open and the lights on. Worst recession in history and they want to worry about health care? Stupid, stupid, stupid! Shouldn't even be an issue right now. When someone is treading water, don't throw a mattress on top of them.

[MarylandMark]

Some numbers- for example say a Doctors visit is $100:

Without insurance: you pay $100 for a total of $100 for the Doctor
With insurance: $15 co-pay, insurance pays $51 for a total of $66 for the Doctor
With medical assistance (State Govt): $0 co-pay, insurance pays $30 for a total of $30 for the Doctor

You have to see twice as many patients on medical assistance to make the same as you would as seeing patients with insurance. What do you think that does to quality of care? Quantity vs quality- I'll take quality please. So say you see a patient every 10 minutes, that would be $180/hour. Now think about the staff and business space and all the other needs you need to see a patient every 10 minutes- much more than $180/hour- which means you aren't going to be in business very long.

Here are some REAL numbers from a Doctors office:

$72,284 billed, $42,436 paid
79,931 billed, $52,283 paid
$70,442 billed, $51,506 paid

If those were all medical assistance, you would see the paid numbers cut in half. Imagine if every one was on medical assistance like some want!

Now, who wants to spend $200K on school to be a Doctor?

[boostbros]

after watching the prez without a teleprompter i was pretty shocked at his attitude i can,t believe he said thats insulting you brought a prop when shown the almost 3000 page nightmare! i copied this from a comment i found somewhere this guy is scaring me anyone else think he has become a dictator? or street thug gone presidental? 6 hours of narcissistic psychosis........

on live tv

it all fits obama's psych profile........

A failed embittered Presidency can be extremely dangerous--
so a profile of Obama's like FUTURE actions is critical.

In his monumental work "Hitler and Stalin" Alan Bullock notes both Hitler and Stalin were narcissists. ProCounsel is NOT stating Obama is either Hitler or Stalin. But his analysis, written long before Obama's ascendancy, is a useful model.

Bullock explains narcissism on page 11:

"In such a state only the person himself, his needs,feelings and thoughts, everything and and everybody as they relate to him are experienced as fully real, while everybody and everything otherwise lacks reality or interest."

Bullock describes the effects of narcissism and provides a predictive model useful for Obama on page 343:

"Narcissistic personalities are convinced of their special qualities and their superiority over others, and any threat to this self image--such as being criticized, shown up, or defeated--produces a violent outrage and often a desire for revenge."

Bullock cites 3 psychological reactions Stalin used to guard his narcissistic self image. Bullock credits Robert Tucker for these insights on page 356. The 3 reactions to expect for the Obama profile would be:

1. Repression–simply blankly deny the truth, no matter how obvious or even if caught on video

2. Rationalization-Admit but use the fault as proof of his zeal

3. Projection-Obama will attribute to others the motives and attitudes he refuses to admit in himself

Ironically, per the Profile Dems in the House and Senate will be in much more danger from a wounded irrelevant White House than the Republicans, as Obama will deem the Dems unworthy of him--THEY failed NOT him.

Don't believe the profile??

Just go back and review Obama's response to the Detroit airplane bombing. Obama went through all 3 stages above and that analysis is especially instructive as Obama was naked--without senior staff.


Posted by: ProCounsel | February 25, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Ram it down America's throats, Mr President. Shove that ugly baby right up those seniors caboose. That brilliant strategy will pay great dividends in the Fall, and frankly, I look forward to the result. Go for it, boss. And in the immortal words of Don Meredith, "Turn out the lights, the parties over."

Posted by: donchew1 | February 25, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

We the People have a right to expect Congress to act in a manner consistent with due process of law.

Due process includes "the right to be heard in a meaningful forum at a meaningful time."

Reid and his cohorts excluded any GOP participation in any legislative endeavors since the Kenyan was elected. Reid has also circumvented the fundamental protections for the initiation and negotiation process for proposed legislation.

Isn't that how the governments acted in the Third Reich and the Kremlin?

Is this the way we will now conduct legislative activity in the US of A?

The Kenyan was elected "president", not dictator. He fooled the electorate once. Let's see if he can do it twice.

He needs to rush through every socialist program he can before he is "canned" by Ameri-cans.

As to the healthcare plan, its "constitutionality" is in question, and with all excessively large documents "the devil is in the detail", which no one can fully comprehend when something this large is being rammed down our throats.

God Bless America, and its critics be "damned".

[Ratickle]

Health care IMHO is broken, however the proposed "fixes" will break it more than it already is.

I'm not a fan of mandates but since those that aren't covered costs us that are covered, everyone should be mandated to have some coverage. Not a runny nose but for a helo to the ER or some thing like that, the big stuff. Like point #2, you put up the first $10K and then the insurance covers the rest or some thing along those lines. That or have a microchip implanted that you waive coverage and some thing happens to you, you're on your own/no treatment/die/whatever; just not going to cost ME money.

I keep high deductibles on every thing I have to keep the cost down. Home? I'm not making an insurance claim if my power goes out and the stuff in my freezer goes bad anyway. If my house burns down and they take 5% out of the claim for my higher deductible it's not that big of a deal, especially since I have adequate covered. Truck? $1K vs $500 deductible, savings of the $500 deductible difference in about 18 months so every day after I'm not in an accident I'm saving money. Back to adequate coverage-I run agreed value on most things so if some thing does go wrong, I'm more than covered. Same standard should be for health care, if you are higher risk for some things- say smoke and eat McDonald's every day- then you should be held accountable for a higher cost, like instead of $10K make it $50K.

Responsibility of the insured? Like a points system on a drivers license would be my vote. You smoke, minus 1. You log 500 miles a year on your treadmill, plus 1. You drink, pour me one for me as well, I mean minus 1. Get a check up twice a year, you have preventable issues and don't take of them then your points are adjusted accordingly. Fuzzy here- not sure where to draw the line on what is preventable or not but eating McDonald's and smoking 3 packs a day puts you in the negative. But if you get Lyme Disease, should points be deducted because you go hiking in the woods every day and a tick bit you? I'm not sure how to do this one, just know there should be rewards for good health habits. You don't get speeding tickets, you car insurance doesn't go up. You don't smoke, your life insurance doesn't go up.

Point 4- The dumb dumbs in DC don't realize that a lot of business are just trying to keep the doors open and the lights on. Worst recession in history and they want to worry about health care? Stupid, stupid, stupid! Shouldn't even be an issue right now. When someone is treading water, don't throw a mattress on top of them.

Interesting post Mark. I agree on most. The proposed health care plan is exactly the opposite. Exact same cost and treatment no matter what you do, eat, or life style.

[hotjava66]

In response to Chris' questions my abridged opinions are this.
1.No it is not a right per our constitution or law, the politicians pander it to those who do not in exchange for votes, and those who do have had employer provided insurance for so long that they cannot fathom having to pay for it themselves anymore so it "feels" like a right.

2.It is not but the average person has a hard time saving the difference in cost and putting it away to cover those smaller costs and office visits, myself included lol. When I implemented a deductible insurance in my business my employees had a fit, cause they had a caddilac plan for so long. It seems to me being partially responsible for your own health care cost is ok, it is YOUR health care in the end.

3.Biggest problem these days IMHO. People that are provided with health care and pay none of the costs have no reason to try to save money on it. They will use it to death, literally, see the doctor whenever, have all the tests they can, all the care they can, end of life care to the very end with no care for the cost, since they arent paying for it. And the health care system takes advantage of it. Also people dont take care of their own health, do things that add risk, because if they do get sick from it they arent paying out of their own pocket. This would prob get worse with universal care.

4.NO, not in this way, get the economy fixed first, even if they get it through with no money being made and consequently less taxes being paid how the *uck are they going to pay for it.

[Audiofn]

I would like to hear from our Canadian memebers to see what they think about thier care.

[Ted]

I would like to hear from our Canadian memebers to see what they think about thier care.


They vote against their healthcare every day, with their feet. Even one of the Provincial PM's came down here for heart surgery, that is a glowing endorsement I would say. My uncle flew to Paris for eye surgery on his own dime. My great aunt was left legally blind and partially crippled as a direct result of the socialized medicine in Quebec. (2 different F ups :mad: ) And when you look at the tax structure to support the mess it becomes quite clear that government run healthcare is a sad, deadly JOKE.

[Chris]

One of the issues with socialized medicine is the lack of urgency. More than a few end up waiting for treatment so long their condition becomes no longer treatable.

Can you imagine having your life depend on the motivation of the folks employed at your local DMV?

[Wobble]

One of the issues with socialized medicine is the lack of urgency. More than a few end up waiting for treatment so long their condition becomes no longer treatable.

Can you imagine having your life depend on the motivation of the folks employed at your local DMV?

Private insurance is always available even in countries with socialized medicine. Those willing to pay will always get quicker care for non-critical matters.

[Tommy Gun]

Private insurance is always available even in countries with socialized medicine. Those willing to pay will always get quicker care for non-critical matters.

Just like social security; there is really no security at all so in spite of its existence and all the money you contribute to it you are still on your own.

[sledge]

2. Why is basic, high-deductible insurance a bad thing?

Why is it that as an employer I should be compelled to meet the comprehensive health needs of everyone I employ- and their family?

How many of our $12/hr employees could come up with $10k when their kid falls out of a tree and breaks his head? How about when one of our employees busts his own head falling off his ATV? He doesn't have the deductible, and he isn't working.

What really does compel you to "offer" a group health insurance plan to your employees? We've established there's no constitutional requirement. There's no federal law mandating employers offer insurance (yet :ack2:). Is there an Ohio law that requires employers to offer, and subsidize, a health insurance plan?

No, you offer that benefit to your employees for the reasons you already stated: recruit and retain productive employees. Have you ever asked your employees how they would feel about choosing their own insurance and getting a little more in their paycheck? The young and single say "hell yeah, more beer" and the family guy says "no thanks, I need all the help I can get."

At the end of the day, it's one less decision that people have to inform themselves for. HMO or PPO, $50/paycheck or $100/paycheck.

It's the burden you take on as an employer, to retain the talent you've developed to help you be successful in your business. Think of it as an investment. If your labor pool is ditch diggers, you don't spend a lot on them. If you spend time and money training technicians, you don't want to lose that part of your investment.

[Chris]

Private insurance is always available even in countries with socialized medicine. Those willing to pay will always get quicker care for non-critical matters.

I was under the impression that this sort of arrangement is illegal in Canada. Both the patient and physician are prohibited from engaging in a private transaction for healthcare.

[boostbros]

anyone really up on what is going on here? when the president said he ran into a buzz saw on his plan was'nt that us the public speaking? is china behind this? 2500 pages yet not a single member of congress or the prez really knows what it says? i am not into politics but this just seems to be a huge attempt to force this on us . i am thankful he either had the gall or was naive enough to broadcast the healthcare meeting it showed us just how bad this group is i thought he was very unprepared and just lashed out because hes the president and he can do what ever he wants Mc cain was perfect ya we are reminded of that every day!

[Wobble]

I was under the impression that this sort of arrangement is illegal in Canada. Both the patient and physician are prohibited from engaging in a private transaction for healthcare.

In theory that is true for Canada. The wealthy purchase insurance that covers you for receiving treatment in USA or elsewhere.

The UK system allows for private insurance with no restrictions. I also understand that Canada is re-considering allowing private insurance.

[Chris]

The issue really isn't health care. The issue is governmental control over its citizens. Health care is a HUGE issue for every American. It's 1/6th of our GDP. And when the government controls it, they control you- or at least a large chunk of you. Welcome to Socialism.

[2112]

And when presenting it to those who won't pay for any of it themselves, it is an easy sell.

When voting to rob Peter to pay Paul, You can always count on Paul's vote.

.

[Tommy Gun]

The following is what my DEMOCRATIC Representative wrote about the health care bill...

Thank you for contacting me regarding health insurance reform. I appreciate hearing from you.

Both the House of Representatives and the Senate have considered and passed legislation that would make significant reforms to our nation's health insurance and health care systems. I voted against the House's health insurance reform bill, H.R. 3962, the Affordable Health Care for America Act, when it was considered in November of last year because the proposal did not represent the right balance for the rural Missourians I am privileged to represent in Congress. Now, it is uncertain what a final health insurance reform bill might look like.

Over the past six months, Washington has ignored many everyday problems in order to rush too much change. Instead of focusing on the economic problems crippling many American families and paying closer attention to the war against terrorists, Washington has spent valuable time wrestling with health reforms that many believe should not be the top priority. It is time for Congressional leaders to lay the health insurance debate aside and focus attention on the two biggest issues facing Americans today: jobs and national security.

Again, thank you for contacting me. To keep in touch with me or track what I am doing in Congress, please feel free to sign up for my e-Newsletter or follow me on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. You may also visit my official House website at www.house.gov/skelton.

Very truly yours,

IKE SKELTON
Member of Congress

[Chris]

I like that guy.