Throttles That Stay Open.

[Edward R. Cozzi]

Late model Toyota models, Camrys, Avalons, etc. do not have throttle cables. There are sensors at the accelerator pedals, wires to the ECM and wires to the electronic device that controls the throttle plate. The Toyota engineers know what going wrong, but do not know WHY. (It has nothing to do with floor mats.)

Yesterday I showed my significant-other how to not panic if something like that ever happens to her car. (Push the selector to neutral and turn-off the ignition before the engine over-revs. Then gently brake to a safe stop to the side of the road.)

We even practiced this and now, if it happens to her, she will be prepared to deal with a potentially dangerous or fatal situation.

Then it occurred to me that YOU guys might have wives or kids that YOU can pass this to and avert a disaster. The throttle can stick open in ANY car, not just a Toyota. Take a few minutes and stack the deck in your favor for your family and friends.

(To Toyotas credit all plants have been shut down until this problem is completely solved. You car will be recalled ASAP and Toyota will come out of this better than ever.)

[JupiterSunsation]

good lesson for all Ed....

[Sydwayz]

Or you could just pull the lanyard. I have one them in my two trucks and working on putting one in MS's Benz. :D

[TCEd]

Remember when Audi had this problem back in the late 80's early 90's ? They denied there was a problem, blamed it on the drivers.

[RLJ676]

Just FYI, you're giving credit to Toyota for "doing the right thing", as that is how they have spun their press release. The reality is the NHTSA had to remind them they legally must quit selling these cars, as Toyota continued to sell them for 5 days.

Much like they said it's a carpet issue, which is pretty obviously not the case.

[RLJ676]

Remember when Audi had this problem back in the late 80's early 90's ? They denied there was a problem, blamed it on the drivers.

I think that did turn out to be people standing on the brakes, but also hitting the gas?

[TCEd]

I think that did turn out to be people standing on the brakes, but also hitting the gas?

Yes, that was the final opinion from the NHSTA.

[Birdog]

I remember throttle return springs breaking fairly often on older cars...push in the clutch/pop it in neutral..No big deal...Always seemed to happen when you floorboarded it...LOL

[Ted]

I have been in the business a long time and there was never an actually proven unintended acceleration of an older car. Audi was flim flammed by a guy on TV with a "magic box" attached to the car which may be the single worst piece of journalism ever (if you discount the bottle rockets to make an explosion in the pick up truck). I worked for Nissan when that hysteria hit and the Z cars supposedly did it. As soon as we retro fitted brake-to-shift lock devices on the shifter it all stopped. People were simply shifting into gear and moving their foot to the accel pedal at the same time, they mashed the accel pedal when they thought it was on the brake. But this new thing is something that we all knew was coming. It has been happening to marine grade electronic throttles already, apparently because their quality control was not as good but eventually it had to happen in a car. There has to be a software glitch that is commanding WOT when the pedal is not asking for it. And considering all the other false inputs and outputs ALL computers experience is anyone really surprised this couldn't happen? I have always been leary of this idea and now it has apparently come to pass. And the worst thing is that since several groups probably worked on the programming, no one can probably find out where the coding went wrong, sucks to be them.

BTW- you do not have to turn the engine off after shifting to neutral, the rev limiter built into the injection will save the motor, and even better, the shift to neutral may actually override the WOT command and settle the engine back down, just tell anyone you know, SHIFT TO NEUTRAL, pull over.

[Bobcat]

Buy American....problem solved.:USA:

[Ted]

Buy American....problem solved.:USA:


Nope, they have electronic throttle control too, just haven't had the issue....yet.

[sledge]

Isn't at least part of these units..."American Made"? Could've been programmed in India/China though...:ack2:

What about the cars with push button start/stop...they won't turn off while in gear right? But will they turn off in neutral?

How many cars/trucks AREN'T electronic throttle these days?

[.38Special]

The Toyotas in question were all built in America.

[Magicfloat]

Karen has a Sequoia,no issues,but we will take it in when the fix is available.The interesting thing is how brutal my local dealers are in their current ads againt Toyota.Talk about kicking someone when they are down!The local Nissan dealer offers to buy Toyatas and put you in a car that won't kill your family. They even said "don't drive it to us,we will send a tow truck". The local Chevy dealer ad says "Is your car safe? No worries here".I think that's pretty low class,trying to profit on someone's misfortune.

[Edward R. Cozzi]

Karen has a Sequoia,no issues,but we will take it in when the fix is available.The interesting thing is how brutal my local dealers are in their current ads againt Toyota.Talk about kicking someone when they are down!The local Nissan dealer offers to buy Toyatas and put you in a car that won't kill your family. They even said "don't drive it to us,we will send a tow truck". The local Chevy dealer ad says "Is your car safe? No worries here".I think that's pretty low class,trying to profit on someone's misfortune.

I'm not a big fan of negative advertising like this to capitalize on someone's misfortune. Scare tactics have been selling life insurance for decades.

[phragle]

With my quasi degree in backyard engineering, an electronic throttle in a car is just a bad idea. Electronics, your tv ever act up? your toaster ever die? Your home computer ever crash? Those are all in a nice clean, temperature stable, countertop environment. A car lives in an environment with widely fluctuating temperatures, is subject to vibration, water, salt and dust. The power locks died on my explorer, the power windows failed on my cadillac and you want to give me an electronic throttle??
What rocket scientist came up with this idea?? Imagine if this happened to GM with their incredible financial stabilty, shutting down multiple assembly lines, stopping sales, and public relations nightmares. Good bye GM. Toyota has to be hemoraghing dollars at this point just from being shut down, not even considering what the cost is to design, test and implement the repair. There are now a lot of Toyota workers on an unplanned vacation that would in all likelyhood, envision someone in front of a firing squad.

[Edward R. Cozzi]

An electric throttle scares me too.

[MacGyver]

An electric throttle scares me too.

Aircraft manufactures have been doing it for years. Fly-by-wire is the norm.

[phragle]

Aircraft manufactures have been doing it for years. Fly-by-wire is the norm.

with much more intense pm schedules etc.

[2112]

( Toyota will come out of this better than ever.)

With much help from an adoring mainstream media. :(

.

[MarylandMark]

What about the cars with push button start/stop...they won't turn off while in gear right? But will they turn off in neutral?


Each circumstance may vary, and drivers must use their best judgment, but Toyota recommends taking one of following actions:

If you need to stop immediately, the vehicle can be controlled by stepping on the brake pedal with both feet using firm and steady pressure. Do not pump the brake pedal as it will deplete the vacuum utilized for the power brake assist.

Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.

If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.

If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine. Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button.

If the vehicle is equipped with a conventional key-ignition, turn the ignition key to the ACC position to turn off the engine. Do NOT remove the key from the ignition as this will lock the steering wheel. (http://www.lockergnome.com/blade/2010/01/27/totota-owners-what-to-do-if-your-gas-pedal-sticks-while-driving/)

[sledge]

Cool...so 3 secs on the button will kill it even if in gear. I wonder how many people know that?

[phragle]

A large tree will stop the vehicle just as effectively.........

[MacGyver]

with much more intense pm schedules etc.

True.

[MacGyver]

A large tree will stop the vehicle just as effectively.........

Unfortunately, thats whats happening to some Toyota owners.

[Bobcat]

The Toyotas in question were all built in America.

My bad.... I thought it was in Texas:leaving:

[BUIZILLA]

every car with working brakes is designed to overpower a full throttle counter peddle..

i've had several Audi's, every one with a turbo...have one now with a turbo... no way in hell will the throttle overpower the brakes... no way no how..

[Edward R. Cozzi]

I started this thread to hopefully help stop the PANIC involved in a situation like this. If this happens to one of your children or your wife, at least they will not be caught totally unaware and maybe be able to safely keep the vehicle under control. I am confident that if Susans Lexus does it, she will be able to cope with the situation.

Hopefully it never gets to the stage where the physics of brakes over full-throttle is needed.

[JupiterSunsation]

every car with worvking brakes is designed to overpower a full throttle counter peddle..

i've had several Audi's, every one with a turbo...have one now with a turbo... no way in hell will the throttle overpower the brakes... no way no how..

actually you are incorrect....Consumer reports showed how the motor will overpower the brakes in one of their tests:



Toyota recently recalled millions of vehicles because of a possible problem with sudden acceleration.

But Consumer Reports just completed an in-depth analysis of government data and found that Toyota isn't the only manufacturer with complaints.

At Consumer Reports' test track, engineer Jake Fisher simulates a sudden unintended acceleration. Even though the brake is fully engaged, he can't stop the car.

"As hard as we put our foot on the brake, the car slowed down a lot, but wouldn't come to a complete stop," said Fisher.

Consumer Reports' analysis of government data from the 2008 model year shows that sudden-acceleration incidents aren't limited to one manufacturer.

More than 40 percent of sudden-acceleration complaints involve Toyotas. Ford came in second with 28 percent, and other companies also had complaints.

But it is possible to design a car where the brake can bring the car to a stop?

"Some manufacturers, particularly European companies, offer a technology called Smart Throttle. This allows the brake pedal to override the accelerator," said Fisher. "And this is technology that Toyota will be looking to add to production in the near future, as well as retrofit to some existing models."

While experts with Consumer Reports say that the risk of sudden acceleration is low, it is also important to know what to do: apply the brakes firmly, and put the car in neutral without taking your foot off the brake.

The engine will rev, but you'll be able to bring the car to a stop and turn it off.

Consumer Reports says if your car suddenly accelerates, you can be too flustered to remember what to do.

So, it is also a good idea to take your car to an empty parking lot and practice shifting into neutral - so if it does happen - you'll be prepared.

[JupiterSunsation]

One of the bigger cases involving Lexus and multiple fatalities (driver was a State Trooper):

Four people died Friday when a Lexus sedan lost control on the highway, crashed near Mission Gorge Road in Santee and burst into flames.

CHP spokesperson, Brian Pennings said the agency believes its officer Mark Saylor, 45, a 19-year veteran of the CHP, was killed in the accident.

Another CHP officer, Mike May, Saylor’s friend and co-worker was visiting the scene of the accident Sunday when he told NBCSanDiego that the three other victims in the crash included Saylor’s wife Cleofe, daughter Mahala and brother-in-law Chris Lasterlla.

After May put flowers on the spot where the accident happened at northbound Highway 125 and Mission Gorge Road, he said, "I know Mark did everything he could to prevent this. I know he was just calm and kept his faith in God."

CHP investigators said they received a 911 call before 7 p.m. Friday from Saylor's wife Cleofe saying their car’s accelerator was stuck.

Witnesses reported seeing a Lexus heading northbound on 125 weaving through traffic at a high rate of speed. CHP officials said the driver tried to make a left turn when the freeway ended at Mission Gorge Road, but he was going too fast and struck a Ford Explorer.

The Lexus then broke through a fence and struck a dirt embankment, catapulting it through the air more than 100 feet. The vehicle landed in dense vegetation near a riverbed.

"The car ended up on its wheels and caught on fire, which caused a small brush fire," officer Brian Pennings said Sunday.

[BUIZILLA]

actually you are incorrect....Consumer reports showed how the motor will overpower the brakes in one of their tests:

. I don't care what CP says, bring me any factory built car you want, wire the throttle, and i'll make it stop... :driving:

[Ratickle]

One of the bigger cases involving Lexus and multiple fatalities (driver was a State Trooper):


A Lexus is just an expensive Toyota.....

[sledge]

There's a big difference between keeping a stopped car stopped, and trying to stop a speeding car with a stuck throttle if it goes WFO and isn't taken out of gear.

[sledge]

Four people died Friday when a Lexus sedan lost control on the highway, crashed near Mission Gorge Road in Santee and burst into flames.

That was one of the first incident's of Toyota's problems wasn't it? Happened a while ago? But how does a 19 yr CHP vet not throw the shifter into neutral at the first sign of a problem? The guy went for miles and miles stuck at full throttle....

[Airpacker]

drive by wire has been around for a long time ( over 10 yrs on some vehicles ). With this exception ( not the rule ) Toyota has just proven that they can screw up too. The throttle pedal sensors are not one but multiple sensors in one unit ( read redundancy ). The actual throttle blade angle sensors are multiples too. All sensor failures result in NO throttle opening, not WOT.
This will prove to be a stray voltage signal between the PCM and the throttle control module or a software glitch. They will spend millions on the problem and a billion on Public Relations to make everyone forget about it.

[JupiterSunsation]

That was one of the first incident's of Toyota's problems wasn't it? Happened a while ago? But how does a 19 yr CHP vet not throw the shifter into neutral at the first sign of a problem? The guy went for miles and miles stuck at full throttle....

Yes it did happen a few years ago.

A. Car wasn't his regular ride, it was a loaner car with push button start (his car didn't have that option)
B. Push button start/stop won't disengage unless you hold it for 3-5 seconds, he was just pushing the button.

They were on the phone with 911 outlining the issues so they were trying to make it stop/ lots of confusion going on.

[JupiterSunsation]

I don't care what CP says, bring me any factory built car you want, wire the throttle, and i'll make it stop... :driving:

I think it has to do with power brakes vacuum pressure, it builds up as the motor slows to idle and under full throttle it has very little pressure rendering the brakes useless (going off memory, article outlined why it didn't work even jamming on the brakes).

Have you ever tried to stop a power brake vehicle that didn't have the "power" brakes working? Pump your brakes on a parked car 5 times, then roll it down the driveway without the engine running and try to stop it.....you can stand on the pedal with two feet and it is still very tough to stop. Now think of that example with a car going 100 MPH......

[BUIZILLA]

NHTSA mandated that car manufacturers selling vehicles in the US must design brake systems,and prove they would stop a vehicle when WFO... I don't know the speed that was required, but there IS a publication outlining it... after the Audi debacle this procedure was mandated late 80's... between using the foot brake, and parking brake, a full stop condition was mandated.. that's about when all position disc brakes became common... Kelsey Hayes had their a$$ handed to them in the '95-'98 window for defective GM ABS modules.. when the shift interlock came about, things became easier to prove towards driver error.. the Calif Toyo driver could have shifted to neutral if he pushed on the brake hard enough, the engine may have gone on the rev limiter and he could have stopped the car, he, apparently, made NO attempt to do so, for whatever reason..

rumor has it, the current goofy Toyo fix involves a *shim* somewhere..

your in the car biz, go grab any car off the lot and try it..

[JupiterSunsation]

NHTSA mandated that car manufacturers selling vehicles in the US must design brake systems,and prove they would stop a vehicle when WFO... I don't know the speed that was required, but there IS a publication outlining it... after the Audi debacle this procedure was mandated late 80's... between using the foot brake, and parking brake, a full stop condition was mandated.. that's about when all position disc brakes became common... Kelsey Hayes had their a$$ handed to them in the '95-'98 window for defective GM ABS modules.. when the shift interlock came about, things became easier to prove towards driver error.. the Calif Toyo driver could have shifted to neutral if he pushed on the brake hard enough, the engine may have gone on the rev limiter and he could have stopped the car, he, apparently, made NO attempt to do so, for whatever reason..

rumor has it, the current goofy Toyo fix involves a *shim* somewhere..

your in the car biz, go grab any car off the lot and try it..


Buz......I am not in the car business, never have been.

I think the Audi 5000 problem was with the car coming out of gear not actually a braking issue. Back then they could be shifted into R or D without depressing the brake pedal. I think the car would idle high and "catch" when it was being shifted into gear causing it to lurch forward/backward before anyone could stop the motion (via the brakes). I have had 3 Audi's...wasn't in love with the two A6 2.7 twin turbos but the A8L was one of my favorite cars.

[Ted]

NHTSA mandated that car manufacturers selling vehicles in the US must design brake systems,and prove they would stop a vehicle when WFO... I don't know the speed that was required, but there IS a publication outlining it... after the Audi debacle this procedure was mandated late 80's... between using the foot brake, and parking brake, a full stop condition was mandated.. that's about when all position disc brakes became common... Kelsey Hayes had their a$$ handed to them in the '95-'98 window for defective GM ABS modules.. when the shift interlock came about, things became easier to prove towards driver error.. the Calif Toyo driver could have shifted to neutral if he pushed on the brake hard enough, the engine may have gone on the rev limiter and he could have stopped the car, he, apparently, made NO attempt to do so, for whatever reason..

rumor has it, the current goofy Toyo fix involves a *shim* somewhere..

your in the car biz, go grab any car off the lot and try it..

There is no doubt that from a standing stop the brakes will override the engine and hold the car still, power assist or not. But the issue here is WOT while already moving. Although you may be able to drag the car down eventually (assuming the brake fluid doesn't start to boil) the distance required could be incredible. And in the panic steering and control of the vehicle would be secondary. It is still amazing to me that when the original accident happened and they were on the cell and all that, no one thought to just shift to neutral, truly sad.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

An electric throttle scares me too.

The old electric shift's were called Dock Busters for a reason.

[LaughingCat]

I havent read this whole thread yet, but apparently, Ford and GM are offering big incentives for people to trade their Toyotas in right now. I say, "go for it, America." Let's get back on top.

[LaughingCat]

And the "shift to neutral" move was the first thing I thought when they mentioned sticky pedals last year. They finally mentioned it on the Today Show this morning, like it was some revelation.

BTW, the lanyard comment was great.

[MacGyver]

I saw a news report that Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple Computer, has a 2010 Prius and had a runaway condition when he tried to activate the cruise control. No stuck peddle, no floor mat issues. He feels it's a software issue. Toyota (behind closed doors) admits they have no idea whats causing the problem, but are trying to blame the "faulty" peddle and shift the blame to the supplier.

If I owned one, I'd park it.

[Edward R. Cozzi]

This morning I heard on the news that Toyota has the fix ready. It's a thin piece of steel the size of a postage stamp that goes under the gas pedal.

[bajacleveland]

Wait till this happens in the boats that are fly by wire.

[htrdlncn]

Buy American....problem solved.:USA:
Actually both the Corvette and GTO had problems with the drive by "maybe" wire , in their case they would go to idle though not WOT,could be just as bad if it happens in high speed traffic though.
Drive by wire may be great in planes with high quality equipment and strict regulation but in the auto world where the cheapest bidder rules its a damn stupid idea.

[Ted]

Wait till this happens in the boats that are fly by wire.

Already has. I know of a collision here in Annapolis where a 50 Ocean was coming into what we call Ego Alley (City Dock). Captain (pro) pulled throttles back to neutral and no shifty. Boat kept tooling right along at about 6 knots. So he tries reverse, feels a bump, gases it, still in forward. Pins a Fountain fishy boat right against the dock in a t-bone.(totaled) They had to shut down the systems to get the thing out of gear-all electronic throttles and shifter. I also have a friend that bought a 42 Cruisers with E shift diesels, had it shift to neutral a couple of times for no reason. So the factory guy is looking at it and they are cruising 25 mph and one of the engines comes out of gear, before the guy driving can pull back on the throttle it shifts back into gear with the engine on the rev limiter. They are probably still finding pieces of the trans in the bilge of that boat, and Cruisers gave him a new one.

[Airpacker]

This morning I heard on the news that Toyota has the fix ready. It's a thin piece of steel the size of a postage stamp that goes under the gas pedal.

LOL, the so called "Precision Metal Reinforcement" is what they are calling it on the news here. My bet is that gets the car in the door and a PCM reprogram is what the car gets before it leaves with its new piece of steel.

[Baja Fresh]

Yes it did happen a few years ago.

A. Car wasn't his regular ride, it was a loaner car with push button start (his car didn't have that option)
B. Push button start/stop won't disengage unless you hold it for 3-5 seconds, he was just pushing the button.

They were on the phone with 911 outlining the issues so they were trying to make it stop/ lots of confusion going on.

What's the push button got to do with putting the trans in neutral? That would have been the quick solution.

Don't shut off the engine until you come to a stop so you don't lose power steering and brakes.

[getchasum111]

Dodge and Crysler have the same pedal's from the same manufacturer as the Toyotas (CTS) but you don't hear the govt press release about them....

[tcuda499]

This morning I heard on the news that Toyota has the fix ready. It's a thin piece of steel the size of a postage stamp that goes under the gas pedal.

nope, thats not the fix. I have been a Toyota tech since '92.They're building a new pedal,changing the floor design under the pedal and the most important thing is we're reflashing the ecu to cut engine power over 2000rpm's when the brake pedal is applied. drive by wire is used in alot of cars and is the norm now. I saw first hand a 2005 cadilac fly through our shop and go right through the brick wall of the service dept. because of a bad pedal. luckily no one was hurt so it happens to every manufacture. also I have seen FIRST HAND many toyotas come in with 2 or 3 floor mats wedged under all the pedals for years..... always thinking to myself....someones gonna get hurt from this. Yes,toyota f*cked up the way they handle it but 99% was/is floor mat related. Also how to shut off your push button start is in the owners manual wich NO ONE reads. Also there is NO WAY you can slow down your car with a WOT condition by standing on the brakes....wont happen. No vacumm. you must shift to nutruel or slam it in park who cares. it will stop than. Toyota is a great company.....look at there "sludge recall" we will fix your sludged up motor for free no matter the miles and no proof of EVER doing oil changes. Go ask your Gm,Ford,chrysler to do that. BTW I drive a Dmax so I do support the American three

[Edward R. Cozzi]

nope, thats not the fix. I have been a Toyota tech since '92.They're building a new pedal,changing the floor design under the pedal and the most important thing is we're reflashing the ecu to cut engine power over 2000rpm's when the brake pedal is applied. drive by wire is used in alot of cars and is the norm now. I saw first hand a 2005 cadilac fly through our shop and go right through the brick wall of the service dept. because of a bad pedal. luckily no one was hurt so it happens to every manufacture. also I have seen FIRST HAND many toyotas come in with 2 or 3 floor mats wedged under all the pedals for years..... always thinking to myself....someones gonna get hurt from this. Yes,toyota f*cked up the way they handle it but 99% was/is floor mat related. Also how to shut off your push button start is in the owners manual wich NO ONE reads. Also there is NO WAY you can slow down your car with a WOT condition by standing on the brakes....wont happen. No vacumm. you must shift to nutruel or slam it in park who cares. it will stop than. Toyota is a great company.....look at there "sludge recall" we will fix your sludged up motor for free no matter the miles and no proof of EVER doing oil changes. Go ask your Gm,Ford,chrysler to do that. BTW I drive a Dmax so I do support the American three

Cool. Thanks for responding. Great to get it "straight from the horses' mouth".

[sledge]

the most important thing is we're reflashing the ecu to cut engine power over 2000rpm's when the brake pedal is applied.

That will be the key piece of evidence in the class action IMHO.

[tcuda499]

That will be the key piece of evidence in the class action IMHO.

possable. not all manufacture's have the fuel cut when brakes are applied but they all should.

[sledge]

Sure would make heel and toe difficult...
:D

[MacGyver]

Sure would make heel and toe difficult...
:D

No brake stands either.....oh wait, yotas are front wheel drive :willy_nilly:

[JupiterSunsation]

What's the push button got to do with putting the trans in neutral? That would have been the quick solution.

Don't shut off the engine until you come to a stop so you don't lose power steering and brakes.

Guy couldn't get it to go into neutral......2nd choice was to try to shut it off also a no go for him. Car eventually went off the road and rolled/caught fire. 4 dead.

[sledge]

Guy couldn't get it to go into neutral

How do we know that? Is it on the 911 call?

Anybody have a Lexus that will run out and try and shift out of D at WOT? :D

[MacGyver]

Electronic transmissions will not let you shift into Park or Reverse while at speed. I'm not sure about Neutral, but I'm guessing probably not either. It was tried on an episode of Myth Busters, they were more concerned with reverse and park for that episode :D

[JupiterSunsation]

How do we know that? Is it on the 911 call?

Anybody have a Lexus that will run out and try and shift out of D at WOT? :D

The reason that case sticks in my mind is because the guy was a veteran CHP trooper.....guy should know a thing or two about high speed driving and how to get a car to stop and he perished in the crash.

If he couldn't get the car to stop, what chance does the old lady driving to the supermarket have?

[JupiterSunsation]

CHP Officer, Family Killed in Crash
A 911 call made minutes before the accident said the car's accelerator was stuck

By RORY DEVINE, MARI PAYTON and R. STICKNEY
Updated 11:45 AM PST, Tue, Sep 1, 2009


Four people died Friday when a Lexus sedan lost control on the highway, crashed near Mission Gorge Road in Santee and burst into flames.

The victims include veteran CHP officer Mark Saylor, 45, his wife Cleofe Lastrella Saylor, 45, his brother-in-law Chris Lastrella,38, and his daughter Mahala, 13.

CHP investigators said they received a 911 call before 7 p.m. August 28 Cleofe Saylor saying their car’s accelerator was stuck.

Witnesses reported seeing a Lexus heading northbound on 125 weaving through traffic at a high rate of speed. CHP officials said the driver tried to make a left turn when the freeway ended at Mission Gorge Road, but he was going too fast and struck a Ford Explorer.

The Lexus then broke through a fence and struck a dirt embankment, catapulting it through the air more than 100 feet. The vehicle landed in dense vegetation near a riverbed.

"The car ended up on its wheels and caught on fire, which caused a small brush fire," officer Brian Pennings said Sunday.

Firefighters quickly knocked down the flames and made the grim discovery. "All four bodies were still in the vehicle, none were ejected," said Santee Fire Chief Mike Rottenberg.

Phillip Pretty, 52 of Santee was in the Ford Explorer. He was taken to the hospital by ambulance Friday with moderate injuries.

All of the victims died from blunt force trauma either to the head or torso. The county's medical examiner declared all deaths as the result of an accident.

Saylor was driving the car according to investigators. The car was a loaner from Bob Baker Lexus in El Cajon where Saylor's personal Lexus was being serviced. A company spokesperson said everyone was "shocked" when a deputy told them about the crash. Their "hearts go out to the families" but they did not want to comment on the cause of the crash saying they don't know what happened and don't want to speculate.